AP FACT CHECK: Eye-Popping Claims About Sanders

[Hell Hath No Fury]

"How can it be that Bernie Sanders could stand on the side of vigilantes on the border, against the auto industry bailout, against an immigration overhaul that would have eased the plight of people in the country illegally? Can this be the liberal senator his supporters know and love?

It can be because of the politically perilous way legislation works in Congress, as bill after bill becomes a grab bag of the good and bad — as lawmakers see it. Hillary Clinton took full advantage of that in the latest Democratic debate, pointing out votes by her opponent that are eye-raising on the surface while brushing off complexities that help explain them.

A look at some claims in the debate and how they compare with the facts:"

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/AP-FACT-CHECK-Eye-popping-claims-about-Sanders-6881126.php

[BillZBubb]

1. Hillary is desperate. Her problem is everyone can see it.

Her distortions only feed the impression that she is dishonest and untrustworthy. The more she persists, the worse it will get for her.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. That is it in a nutshell.

Watching her lash out in such a way in 2008 really turned me off as a voter and pushed me into O's camp. She has consistently been her own worst enemy in her two Presidential campaigns, IMO.

She very well may win this nomination, but how she did it and the residual distrust is something that can't be easily overcome.

[daleanime]

43. +1

[LittleGirl]

51. +2 n/t

[840high]

74. +3

[jillan]

76. +1000

[NHprogressive]

28. I really hope that you're right about everyone being able to see it

That would be her undoing in this race, if so

[99th_Monkey]

41. Michigan voters saw through Hillary's lies, and voted accordingly.

and the whole nation watched that happen.

Hillary's "edge" is seriously slip slip slipping away.

[reformist2]

52. I think you're right. For the first time, more people didn't beleive her lies than didn't.

And that's a crisis for the Hillary campaign, because that's all she's got left!

[PatrynXX]

31. Desperate means 2008 Money problems

where she did what to her staff? I'm sure she already has money problems. course she's been paying herself but will it start eating into her paycheck hmmmm

[Hell Hath No Fury]

55. She had been struggling for campaign donations --

a few weeks ago, so much so that Debbie overturned the Presidential campaign rules O put in place on accepting funds from lobbyists. Her PAC money has been STAGGERING and pretty much the only thing that has kept her campaign afloat.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

69. Hillary is a piece of shit.

There, I said it, and I feel great.

[KitSileya]

80. "Bernie is a piece of shit."

"There, I said it, and I feel great."

[Fantastic Anarchist]

87. Well, that's just like your opinion, man.

[Divernan]

92. The Dude abides!

[Vinca]

2. If a kitten gets in her way . . .

just saying.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. ....

[Cleita]

36. I hope that's a photoshop. The poor thing looks terrified. eom

[Ferd Berfel]

37. dunno

it's a googled image

[davidpdx]

78. Adios...........

On Fri Mar 11, 2016, 06:16 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Kitty; locked an loaded.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1462904

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Over the top, insensitive and offensive.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 11, 2016, 06:25 PM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I don't want to see this kind of crap on DU. Politics aside, this doesn't belong here.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This was unwarrented. The DUer who did this really needs to think before he/she posts.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: DU will not torture kittens for any reason.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Almost as outrageous as the "brick" OP. The poster should be embarrassed, but I'm not holding out any hope. This will probably be allowed to stand anyway...

[In_The_Wind]

86. I was juror #6.

[mdbl]

88. I looked at the hidden post and now realize I won't look next time

that was disgusting.

[tk2kewl]

3. she doesn't get it

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. That honestly one is brutal.

And, for me, this has NOTHING to do with bullshit manufactured by the GOP on her, but her own history and record. When you say one thing and do another, or "evolve" on issues that should NEVER require any sort of evolution in the first place, I simply do not buy what you are selling.

[rhett o rick]

71. It isn't that she wants bad things for us, it's just if bad things happen to us in the process of

the Wealthy getting wealthier, it's too bad for us. We are collateral damage just like the 500,000 killed in Iraq. It's not personal, it's just business.

[zentrum]

73. How can this even be a contest?

[MidwestTech]

93. Were you here for 08? Do you remember the PUMAs?

It seems that when "your person" is of ethnic or gender other than the usual the vitriol gets turned up to 11.
we only have to suffer another couple months... then the hard part of healing will have to begin.

[zentrum]

94. Ill never forget

…the PUMA's. Not pleasant. I'm a woman for Bernie, and really think such female fundamentalists hurt feminism, because it's the same old crap as the patriarchy but now done by women. It doesn't change the paradigm about power and how we should treat each other. Ugh.

[MidwestTech]

95. THANK YOU!!!

*drops to my knees and bows*
Seriously I thought I was going crazy!
Why is it such a sin for a male to make those same observations you just laid out?

[zentrum]

96. I can say it

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 05:29 PM - Edit history (1)

…because I've lived it. You can always ask any question—because that's open. But it does seem risky for a man to critique a woman who is calling herself a feminist. It isn't a matter of PC—it's that there are just certain things you've never actually suffered. So it sounds patronizing. But you can ask things. Like you just did!

For sure you've experienced hierarchy and bad treatment, violence etc., as a man——but not because you are a man. It wasn't in the deep system. Women have been really wounded, on a daily basis sometimes, by systemic sexism—it's not at all remote. So some of them become fundamentalists and risk becoming like the enemy——which isn't men—it's a set of attitudes and behaviors. As if they think, "Now I'm gonna get mine".

Most feminists I know think a good feminist man is gold---I think Bernie's innate instincts make him a better feminist than Hillary. Anybody can be a good feminist as long as they walk the walk. But not for these Fundies. Wow-- fundamentalism in anything is a complete drag!

[Jarqui]

4. Good for them.

Long overdue but I'm grateful they're trying to get the record straight and Clinton is being called on her dishonesty.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

13. Yeah, the media has been pretty dismall --

this whole time, but I guess some whoppers are just too big to be ignored.

[Jarqui]

17. They've always loved the sport of taking down politicians

Maybe they see ratings when Bernie gets a standing ovation.

And it gets harder to ignore when higher profile people like Moore and Axelrod are repeatedly calling her out on social media. Eventually, some reporters have to say to themselves 'hey, this is affecting the perception of my integrity too"

[Hell Hath No Fury]

56. Trump gets 24/7 coverage --

but the first 6 or 7 months of Bernie's campaign were all but invisible, even when he was packing stadiums.

Maybe Bernie needs to introduce a line of lox...

[casperthegm]

5. When HRC supporters ask why we have such a problem with her...

THIS is why. She and her prep team know full-well that these bills have all kinds of amendments and such attached to them and know that she can twist a vote by Bernie to seem like something that it wasn't. Now, is Hillary the first politician to ever do this in a debate? Of course not. But for someone who already has trust issues, this isn't winning over those of us who are informed. Which means she is trying to take advantage of the less informed. Essentially, she's hoping people are dumb enough to believe her.

And that's who you want us to support if she wins the nomination? The person who doubles down on the auto bailout lie and then tries to tie Sanders to the Koch brothers? Yeah, I'll be happy to get right in line and support her...

[TTUBatfan2008]

8. The worst one...

...was the commodities trading bill that one of her CURRENT advisers was responsible for writing in the 1990's. The deregulation was tucked into an omnibus package to fund the government and Sanders voted against shutting down the government. So Clinton attacked him for voting in favor of commodities deregulation even though it was her adviser who wrote that part of the bill. Laughable hypocrisy.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34497-the-most-disingenuous-attack-on-bernie-yet

[ljm2002]

21. As Bernie put it so well recently...

..."Washington has a funny relationship with the truth."

[dana_b]

39. funny?? He is too polite

I know that he's being diplomatic but I'll say it - she's LYING - again!! A lying hypocrite!!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

12. The whole Koch Brothers attempt --

is probably the MOST outlandish thing I have ever witnessed.

I think that her campaign forgets we have this thing called the Internet. It's not like back in the day when someone could make a claim and there was really no way for an individual to really dig down on it without the help of the broadcast/print media.

You just can't LIE about shit anymore without expecting to get called on it by people who know how to use the Google.

[casperthegm]

18. The Koch bros claim smacked of desperation

Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

It's so obvious that it was a talking point from her prep team. But you're right, it's completely naive of her team to think that nobody is going to call her out on this. And Bernie supporters in particular are quite savvy when it comes to social media and calling her out on her BS. I think that is playing a big role in helping call her out on her lies and spread his positive message.

What bothers me most is that so many HRC supporters seem unfazed by this. I guess they've become accustomed/accepting of this kind of debate behavior, where you can twist things into the kind of "truth" you want it to be.

[Dustlawyer]

27. They are like Trump supporters who want him so bad they are willing to say that the ends justify the

means. Hillary is their "team" and they want their team to win. Being flagged for a penalty is a set back, not a reason to consider the team playing by the rules.

[AlbertCat]

29. HRC supporters seem unfazed by this.

Well, it's "business as usual".... which they seem to love. Everything is just hunky dory like it is to them, apparently.

[casperthegm]

33. And if she wins the nomination...

They'll look at us with surprise when we balk at backing her. That Koch brothers claim and auto bailout thing? We were just kidding- come on over and support Hillary like good little dems. You know it's for the "good of the team...."

[azurnoir]

49. To do that in conjuction with claims about him being a communist is actually Hilarious

think about it a communist Koch brother-must be the blacksheep of the family or something

[Hell Hath No Fury]

57. Yeah, that kind of --

thinking causes mental whiplash for sure! Just the thought of it makes go, "WTF"?!

[Cheese Sandwich]

6. Bernie stood with the minutemen on the border with an AR-15 to hunt down migrant workers

[Hell Hath No Fury]

19. A Commie AND a Minuteman!

Wow, that is some wild ideological mash-up right there.

[dchill]

9. SHAME. (From the article)

When Clinton voted for the Wall Street package and Sanders voted against it, neither knew money would be shifted to the auto industry.

SHAME ON HILLARY CLINTON.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

22. At the time, I had even --

contacted Clinton and Obama asking them to vote against the measure -- I thought it was nothing but a big fat giveaway without strings. Bernie was 100% right to vote against it.

[ljm2002]

23. SO GLAD they pointed this out!!!!!

The Wall Street bailout was just that. It had nothing to do with the automobile industry at the time of the vote. So the complaint apparently is that Bernie did not have a time machine so he could have foreseen that.

Yes: SHAME ON HILLARY CLINTON.

[dchill]

25. She's PROUD of her vote.

And her lie about it.

[99Forever]

10. That's a lot of dead kittens!

Hillary pleas quit killing kitties.

[beedle]

11. "Trying to be honest" again?

do, or do not. There is no 'Try".

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. Mercury.

Pining down Hillary on an issue (and the Truth) can be like trying control mercury -- it's always slipping away here and there, unwilling to be contained.

Like saying that you are now against the TPP in a way so that you can later vote FOR it when the time arises. She is a master at that sort of thing.

[pdsimdars]

15. She is a pathological liar, she can't stop.

[AzDar]

20. Whom, besides Corporate America, and the 1%... is STILL supporting this woman?

She's UNFIT.

[BernieforPres2016]

24. David Axelrod said on Twitter that this is the article he was told this Hillary attack was based on

Sounds like typical Congressional stupidity, a nonsense provision buried in a bill full of all kinds of things. One member of Congress the author of this piece talked to could barely remember it and after reading the article I still don't really understand it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/in-2006-bernie-sanders-voted-in-support-of-an-immigration-co#.srLgrP9lK

<Rep. Olav Sabo, a Minnesota Democrat and ranking member on the Homeland Security Committee, was the sole member of his party to speak on the amendment.

“I claim the time in opposition; but, Mr. Chairman, I don’t rise in opposition,” he said. He said Customs officials had told him they already didn’t share information with the Mexican government except for where required by treaty.

“If people want to put it in the bill, I guess that is okay because it apparently does nothing,” he quipped.

The Sanders campaign cited Sabo’s vote when explaining Sanders’ support for the largely symbolic, pro-Minuteman measure.

“People put forward nuisance amendments all the time,” Michael Briggs, Sanders’s top communications strategist and longtime aide, told BuzzFeed News. “In this case, the Customs and Border Patrol [according to Sabo] said it was a meaningless thing and [Sanders] and Sabo voted for it.”>

I liked these comments from Republican congressman Jack Kingston on Bernie:

<Kingston did not recall the specifics of the the legislative wrangling that eventually passed the amendment with some Democratic support (it was not included in a final DHS funding bill passed by the Senate), but he recalled Sanders in Congress as an unpredictable iconoclast.

“One thing that is nice about a guy like that, he’s really philosophically true. He’s kind of like Ron Paul, you couldn’t get him off his belief system,” Kingston said. “He was pretty true to what he believed in. He would kind of jump in and out of various issues — he wasn’t just a dependable liberal yes vote any more than a Ron Paul would be a dependable conservative no vote.”>

Imagine that. A politician who operates from a set of principles instead of always toeing the party line.

Hillary has an opposition research team combing through every vote Bernie has ever made in 25 years and everything he said or did going back for decades before that and bullshit like this is the best they can come up with? That suggests Bernie has a pretty spotless record if she can't find a legitimate attack.

[FailureToCommunicate]

44. One congressman's principled stands are another's pesky un-reliability for votes?

[hopemountain]

77. unless it is her past actions

she is being called on - then, her past becomes "immaterial" - the hillary clinton defense meme for this week.

[BernieforPres2016]

90. One of her favorite lines is

"Well if we're going to talk about the 90's OK....I'd rather talk about the future"

Because she would rather run from her record as if it didn't exist and tell voters whatever she thinks they want to hear about the future with no intention of doing it.

[avaistheone1]

30. k&r

[WillyT]

32. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

59. Willy!

We need to get a watch party together for one of these events. Maybe the convention?

[WillyT]

68. I'll Do My Best...

Taking care of 86 1/2 Year Old MommaT...

But I might be able to get one of my sisters to give me a break.

[olddots]

34. As Democrats we shouldn't be saying bad things about Hillary

I'm willing to stop when she starts acting like a Democrat .

[Hell Hath No Fury]

60. That's what I find refreshing about Bernie.

I look at him and where he stands and I see an old school Liberal Democrat, the kind that inspired me as a kid and who defined my politics. I know I don't have to worry about getting stabbed in the back on the issues most important to me.

[INdemo]

35. Hillary just dont get it.If voters wanted her they

would have nominated her in 2008. Just because this is her second try at her 3rd term or or 2nd try for the Democratic nomination does not mean she can buy it with GoldmanSachs/Wall St money or with Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the Corporate News trying to steal it for her.

Voters have figured her out..She is a phony. In the morning she is a Progressive and in the afternoon she is using Republican tactics by attack and talking points and..In the evening she lets Chris Mathews and Rachel do the talking for her.

[merrily]

38. Every U.S. politician, including Hillary, knows that, but does not mind deceiving Americans.

The auto bailout could easily been a separate bill. It was not, because they wanted to pass TARP, so they did two things:

1. Tried to make it harder for Bernie and others like him to vote against TARP.

2. Give those who did want to vote for TARP an excuse in case they got challenged on TARP--"But but I had to vote for TARP, if I wanted to vote for the auto bailout!"


Politics makes kabuki look like improv. Why don't they effing teach that in civics class?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

61. Reminds me of the IWR vote --

and the insulting claim made by a few of the Dems who voted for it weren't REALLY voting to let W go to war, just giving him permission case he needed it as a leverage tool.

Riiiiiight.

[merrily]

65. And the only way they could think of to do that was to give him unfettered discretion and authority

to go to war? So, they were stupid and lacked any speck of creativity?

See, that's the problem: no matter what excuse anyone attempts for that vote, it backfires.

[LovingA2andMI]

40. This is what happens when...

One is losing it, and dive into the ditch on lying about another candidate's record. Not a good look, at all. #SMH Hillary.

[Nonhlanhla]

42. Funny how Bernie supporters never do complexity when it's Hillary's votes. nt.

[BillZBubb]

47. Please tell us the complexity of the IWR vote. I'm waiting...

[TM99]

54. There isn't any.

It was a straight-forward single issue vote. There were no amendments with a mix of good or bad things. And not only did she vote for it, she went on the Senate floor and repeated EVERY last one of the Bush admin talking points in her cheerleading for the legislation.

They know it is not the same thing, but most will say anything at this point to avoid the uncomfortable truth of her blatant lies and artful smears.

[Major Hogwash]

75. Boom goes the dynamite!!!

She not only spoke for 20 minutes on the Senate floor about why she was going to vote for the Iraq War, she didn't even read the NIE before she voted!!!

Not that any of that mattered, Britain, our ally, was busy pounding away at targets within Iraq as early as August of 2002.
The war on Iraq had already begun.

And she knew it.

[zwyziec]

45. Please God.....kill those feral cats!

And as for HRC, all's fair in love and war and politics.

[jtuck004]

50. Oh, good. Got the bloodthirsty animal-killing demographic to make apologies. What a coup. n/t

[SoapBox]

46. She's grasping at the Low Information types...

Good thing I am smarter and know that we can't trust a thing that comes out of her mouth!

[BillZBubb]

48. Hopefully, everyone is waking up to her tactics.

[kenfrequed]

53. Also...

A lot of us donate to Bernie when we see bullshit lies about him.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

62. Kind of like a quarter --

for the swear jar? I like it!

[bklyncowgirl]

63. They must be seeing some real bad things in their internal polling.

I'm happy to see that the media is calling out the lies. Even the extremely pro-Clinton New York Times told her to stop it.

[kcr]

64. But it's right there in the article:

When legislation came up separately that proposed explicit support for the auto industry, both voted for it. Then in January 2009, shortly before Barack Obama became president, lawmakers tried to block the release of a second phase of the package approved earlier for the Wall Street rescue. Sanders backed this effort, which failed. At this point, it was known that some of the money would go to the auto industry as well, although it was not known how much.

It was rolled into the Wall Street rescue, which he then blocked. She didn't lie.

The Minutemen thing is over the top and using it to claim he supported the Minutemen is pretty bad. But the auto bailout thing is true. He shouldn't have tried to block it.

[Wilms]

66. Bernie will save them kittens!

Bernie Sanders, again, braves flames to save kittens locked in a house where one of Hillary Clinton's pants(uits) caught on fire.

[Ivan Kaputski]

67. Lies of omission ...sign of separation. Fear of 2008 deja vu.

[zentrum]

72. These stealth aspects

…from the Republicans, clawing back any progressive helpful things being done for the country—are more than disgusting. They put these poison pills in because a funder/PAC/lobbyist demands it.

[gordyfl]

79. A Few Years as New York Senator Would Look Good on Her Resume

"It can be because of the politically perilous way legislation works in Congress, as bill after bill becomes a grab bag of the good and bad"

And that's why I have believed was a big reason Hillary quickly left the Senate, and grabbed Sec'y of State. Little did she know the perils she would create as Sec'y.

[Enthusiast]

81. Kicked and recommended!

[Bangbangdem]

82. Hahaha!

Think of the kittens, Hillary! Hahaha!

[Jitter65]

83. Facts are facts. The results of his votes count. Can't pick and choose when called on it.

If you can vote one time against what you believe in, you can do it other times when it is for the greater good. You work to amend and change what you don't like. His reasoning fails. Looks to me like he wants to have both ways...no all ways. The really shameful behavior is when he and his supporters try to hold Hillary accountable for things she never could vote for or against while excusing Bernie for his actual votes.

[Historic NY]

89. +1

[deutsey]

84. I've heard Hillary supporters say that Bernie's anti-establishment focus

doesn't resonate with most people because people are generally happy with the way things are.

I have to wonder what planet they're on.

[PassingFair]

85. Ha ha...

Planet Wallstreet!

[AgingAmerican]

91. That is the political science definition of conservative

Satisfied with the status quo