NEED HELP: WA and Bernie's support for closing the Export-Import Bank (EXIM)

[pat_k]

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 03:49 AM - Edit history (9)

It is just sinking in with me that Bernie's vote against re-authorizing the Import-Export Bank could present a problem for people canvasing/phone banking here in Washington (and for the Sanders campaign in general here). Younger folks, who just don't have the long memories, may not recognize what they could run up against on the issue.

Washington is a critical state for Bernie. He has the potential to win REALLY big. Perhaps even pull off a blow-out that could really help his delegate totals. But, lots of people in Washington, especially Boeing workers/retirees, are Absolutely Opposed to closing the Export-Import Bank. The following sections provide background that explains why this is, and why the opposition runs to deep.

Two questions for AFTER READING the background below. (If your willing to of course.)

1. After reading the background, please let me know how damaging you think his support of closing the EXIM will be here in Washington.

2. When I go phone banking or canvassing next week, I have NO idea how I am going to address this issue. I only find statements supporting it's closure, with lists of the powerful who lined their pockets over the existence of the bank. THESE ARE NOT HELPFUL. Any thoughts on how to handle the issue if confronted with someone that objects to Bernie's opposition to EXIM would be much appreciated.

BACKGROUND

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Strong Union presence

Washington has the fifth-highest % of union workers, 20.2%, in the country.

The high rank is due in large part, to the Boeing Machinists and Engineers Unions. (e.g., like SPEEA, Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace)

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The business of import/export is foundation of the viability of Boeing and the Ports

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About the Export-Import Bank

Import-Export Bank (EXIM)

The Export-Import Bank of the United States (Ex-Im Bank) is the official export credit agency of the United States federal government. Operating as a government corporation, the bank finances and insures foreign purchases of United States goods for customers unable or unwilling to accept credit risk. For example, a Boeing customer is more likely to order a fleet of planes if attractive, low risk, financing is available through the EXIM.

It's a self-sustaining agency that been "in business" for 80 years.

Good thing:
I can't find data showing it is running at a profit, but it appears that at least it is not running at a loss.

Problem:
It takes on Risk that private banks are unwilling to. Therefore, there is a Risk of great losses.

Bernie's objection:
Too much risk, which is a justified concern. He also views the program as straight up Corporate Welfare.

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What some folks here in Washington believe about the EXIM

People touched by Boeing's ups and down are apparently very grateful for the existence of the EXIM.

SPEEA members, and probably other union workers, know all about it -- their union have been involved in opposing past efforts to close EXIM.

Many apparently attribute the fact that Boeing exists at all today to the fact the EXIM existed. They say things like "I wouldn't be here without it" or "There are a number of times Boeing wouldn't have survived without it." (And in Seattle, at least over the past many decades, It's "as goes Boeing, so goes Seattle.&quot

You might want to argue how true those statements might be, but it would not be AT ALL useful. For some, the belief that the EXIM is a job saver can be as powerful as the belief that NAFTA is a job killer.

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Notes on Seattle's/Boeing's Ups and Downs

Seattle is in the midst of a tech boom, but the scars left by the past ups and downs of Boeing are very deep. The memories of what people went through are indelible.

Some Highlights (actually Lowlights)

In the late 60's, Seattle was pretty much a "one trick town." Boeing was the backbone of the economy. For lots of reasons (that I won't get into), 1970 was a year of MASSIVE layoff, with the workforce reduced from the 1968 average of 140,000 to 32,000.

In 1971, Bob McDonald and Jim Youngren put of the iconic billboard message:
"Will the last person leaving Seattle — Turn out the lights"

By '74 they began to recover a bit, recalled workers, but only brought the workforce up to about 54,000. By the eighties they were back on track.

(A friend of mine in CA was a Boeing 1970 "refugee" who moved to CA for work. Returned when he was recalled about 10 years later.)

Other bad times for Boeing:

2001: 30,000 laid off after 9/11

2009: Layoffs begin again. Great concerns about how far it will go
.
Current state: Some problems, but now the workforce is about 160,000

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References

You'll find a bit more on Boeing's problems in the 1970's in this 1996 Seattle Times article: ("Lights Out Seattle&quot
http://old.seattletimes.com/special/centennial/november/lights_out.html

And about the 2000's
http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/2009/01/13/boeing-layoffs--how-bad-will-it-get/

[angrychair]

1. Not sure if it is or not

I am a WFSE shop steward and our state union (AFSCME Council 28) has endorsed Sanders (going against the AFSCME national endorsement). Have not heard any concern about it, one way or the other. Doesn't mean there isn't any, I've just never heard of any.
I'm involved and get emails about our Party effort here to phone bank and door knock for Sanders. Have not heard any concerns about it, one way or the other yet.
Now I'm in Olympia, not Seattle and I'm not all knowing or anything so it could be an issue but i am just not aware of it.
Could be a niche issue but I doubt it is going to be a deal breaker issue as much as you make it out to be.

[pat_k]

7. Well that's good. It may be more of a thing with Seattlites.

...Or even more specifically, Boeing people.

My father-in-law was a shop steward at Boeing, and Bernie's position is a problem for him. (He didn't know Bernie voted against reauthorizing the EXIM charter until the debate either.) In the lean times, the thinking goes, Boeing sales overseas would have been even more dismal if foreign companies hadn't had access to financing through the Export Import Bank.

Now that it has come up, it is likely to get more attention. But it's good to know that the concern is probably more limited to SPEEA members. But that's a pretty big niche... there are a LOT of families with some connection to Boeing here.

[PyaarRevolution]

15. Boeing use to have a workforce in Wichita.

I believe they moved out.

Boeing has trolled for this TIF(tax increment financing) in cities and through ImEx. I wouldn't have a problem if the people of the cities and our government that supported this saw some loyalty from Boeing for all this but they don't behave that way.
Many workers have gotten jerked around by Boeing and that sort of behavior shouldn't be rewarded, can't he see that? Please try to convince him. I try to buy American and companies like Boeing spit in my face by trying to make it nigh impossible to do that. Oh, I don't mean I'm buying a commercial plane but just in general. I mean if I'm flying on a Boeing plane I'd like ALL the parts made here.

[pat_k]

20. :-) I get it. I feel better equipped to handle the issue.

Sorry if I panicked. I was caught off guard today. I had no idea the EXIM could be such a contentious issue. Felt at a total loss. I should have probably waited and thought more before posting. The obvious answer is just to put it all into perspective. The following post helped a lot.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1467018

[radical noodle]

2. I was hoping to see some responses to this...

Guess not.

[pat_k]

5. Me too.

[pat_k]

21. Actually, this one is very helpful. Simple way to handle. Put it into perspective.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1467018

[Armstead]

3. I'd suggest you contact one of his campaign offices

Tell them your concerns and ask what they would suggest. And if they don;t have any answers ask them to go higher up and look into it.

[pat_k]

6. Yes. That's got to be the next move.

[BernieforPres2016]

4. You don't mention Boeing moving their corporate HQ out of Seattle about 15 years ago

They engaged Dallas, Chicago and Denver in a bidding war before choosing Chicago. Here's a link to an article on it.

http://kuow.org/post/boeings-big-move-struck-death-family

Over the last 12 years, Boeing has made $43 billion in profit and its federal income tax has been NEGATIVE $1.6 billion. As in less than zero, it not only hasn't paid taxes it has collected them from the taxpayers.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-has-big-tax-refund-coming-from-uncle-sam-mdash-again/

<Boeing’s recent record of negative taxes hasn’t stopped the company from urging cuts in the corporate-tax structure. On Wednesday, Boeing issued a statement from Chicago welcoming a tax-reform proposal in Congress and said the jet maker “has long supported a simplified tax code that lowers the corporate-tax rate.”

Such calls from the company haven’t always been well received in Congress.

During a 2011 House Ways and Means Committee hearing on tax reform, after Boeing had reported three years of negative taxes, a Congressman incredulously asked James Zrust, Boeing vice president of tax, “How much lower rate do you need?”

Taking all the federal taxes paid, or not paid, since 2002, Boeing’s average federal tax rate is minus 3.8 percent.>

Here is a link to a couple of guest columns for and against the Export-Import Bank from The Seattle Times. On the pro side is the head of the Chamber of Commerce, Tom Donahue (the one who said he thought Hillary would support TPP after the election campaign if she becomes President). Against it is Dean Baker.

http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/should-congress-reauthorize-the-export-import-bank/

[pat_k]

8. Thank you for the seattletimes.com pro/con article!

[liberal_at_heart]

10. Yes. A lot of Washingtonians have soured on Boeing because of the way they blackmailed

the union to freeze their pensions just a couple of years ago. They threatened to move the manufacturing plant to another state if they didn't agree to a pension freeze. I don't know how many people know about the negative tax rate. That would be good to bring up to voters. Others issues that will be in Bernie's favor are the coal ports, reclassifying marijuana, and a $15/hr minimum wage. The citizens of Seattle have been fighting having coal trains go directly through the city and coal ports being put on our coast. Washingtonians also love Bernie's stance on marijuana and a living wage.

[artislife]

11. That!

Boeing is leaving the state piece by pieco going to States that are right to work. We really did live and breathe with Boeing but so many of the jobs have left the state in the last decade or so.

[pat_k]

22. Thx!

[grasswire]

9. Because Boeing gets 40 percent of IMEX bank MONEY??

Is that it?

I am not up to speed on this topic.

If Boeing is a huge and profitable company, why does it rely on IMEX taxpayer dollars?

And if those subsidies are propping up its stock market value...........why is that more important than preventing the slave labor that is occurring via IMEX?

[pat_k]

13. Export-Import bank is viewed as a safety net against bad times

When things went bad with Boeing in 1970's, it went VERY bad, and almost killed off Seattle. (Over just a couple years the workforce went from about 140,000 to 40,000).

That memory is hard to shake. Perhaps EXIM is not much needed in good times, but people fear what would happen if things went south again with what's left of Boeing here.

The thinking is that, as dismal as things were, sales would have been even more dismal if overseas customers didn't have access low risk financing through the EXIM.

As I said, I don't know how true the perception is, or how necessary the existence of EXIM was to Boeings survival, but there are a lot of people connected to Boeing here. Right now I can only speak for what I've run into with three of them. They have experience with previous instances the union fought against EXIM closure. They perceive the bank as a good and necessary thing, and that perception seems pretty unshakable. (The bank is self-sustaining... It's helped to save jobs... and so on)

[liberal_at_heart]

16. That was the 70's. Maybe that plays as an issue with older voters, but older voters

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 02:51 AM - Edit history (1)

are going for Hillary anyway. With GenX and Millennials the job concerns are with H1b visas and the slow degradation of union benefits. GenXers and Millennials are pissed at Boeing right now for blackmailing the union. They threatened the union if they didn't agree to a pension freeze the company would move the manufacturing plant to another state. Genxers and Millennials also support a $15/hr living wage, marijuana reclassification, and education. WA state has been told by the State Supreme Court it must fully fund K-12 education and has even been fined for not doing so. They still haven't done it. There are many issues that Bernie will do very well on here in WA. I have seen dozens of Bernie bumper stickers and yard signs in Seattle and even in the outer counties as well. The fact that he supports hunters rights to have guns big where I live, but he also supports reasonable gun control too. His concern for climate change will be big here too. The ski industry is very concerned about its long term survival and Puget Sound has had some major problems for a while but now it also looks like warmer waters are causing a wasting disease in certain marine wildlife as well. Also the citizens of Seattle have been fighting very hard to keep coal trains from going through the city and from coal ports being built on the coast.

[pat_k]

23. Thanks! I panicked a bit...

I didn't realize it could be a contentious issue, and so of "got into it" with someone and felt totally at a loss.

As you say, it probably won't come up, but if it does come up, I feel equipped to deal with it. One of the other posters just described how to put it into the larger perspective of what he's fighting for. Duh. Simple answer.

I should have thought it all through more before I posted.

[Recursion]

14. ExIm doesn't get taxpayer money

It's a self-funded bank that gets a low rate from the Federal Reserve and funds its operations by the loans it makes.

It's sort of like the FDIC in that sense; it's a government program but it ends up giving money to the Treasury rather than taking money from it.

[pat_k]

24. I'm just beginning to learn about it...

...but I think the problem isn't that it's a money drain. It's that the bank is taking on enormous risk that taxpayers are guaranteeing. There is a potential for great loss.

After getting some input, I'm feeling much better about addressing concerns if they come up.

[Luminous Animal]

12. Excellent propaganda. To have legitimacy, you should have rolled out more slowly.

[pat_k]

18. I suggest...

...you do a search and check out a sampling of my posts if you have some notion that I'm a "plant" or propagandist.

I may not have been around much in the past five years, but I've been extremely active in the past, and have been a member for almost as long as you have.

MY OP expresses a sincere concern and inquiry. No one here seems to have answers so I'll be getting in touch with local campaign people this weekend. I DO NOT want to be caught off guard, particularly if someone were to raise this as an issue caucus day. I want a good answer for anyone who strongly objects to Bernie's opposition to re-authorization of EXIM..

Goodnight.

[basselope]

17. I think the problem is that the GENERAL position is that EXIM amounts to corporate welfare.

I doubt you are going to get Bernie to move off that issue just to save votes from a single employer... it just wouldn't be... well... Bernie.

I think the key is to explain how this fits into his overall philosophy and how their individual lives would be better under a Sanders Administration. Stronger Unions. Health Care as a right of all people. Free public colleges for their kids. Against the trade agreements that will send their jobs overseas!

You are not going to convert a single issue voter. "If someone is going to get rid of the EXIM, they are dead to me"

However, if they understand that Bernie doesn't believe in corporate welfare to ANY CORPORATION, they would have to understand that this includes the EXIM in its current form.

In the end, they are much more likely to keep their jobs under a Bernie administration than ANY other, b/c the EXIM isn't going to outpay what Boeing can outsource jobs for!

[pat_k]

19. Thank You Thank You. That's what I need. Simple. Perspective.

Sorry if I panicked. I didn't know anything about the Export Import Bank -- just heard it brought up at the debate. And then I got hit with questions from my father-in-law (former SPEEA shop steward) and was at a total loss. He didn't think Bernie's vote against re-authorization would endear him at all to the folks he used to work with.

Seattle is much more than a "one trick" town, and isn't vulnerable to the kind of decimation it experienced in the early 1970s. But Boeing's presence is all over the place. Except for the "newcomers," seems like everyone has some connection to Boeing, through family, friends.
.