Thom Hartmann: Time To Purge the DINOs From the DNC... Starting With the Chair

[marmar]

[djean111]

1. Membership of the New Democrat Coalition is a fine place to start.

Third Way advised. Until it was scrubbed up for Hillary campaign purposes, it was eerily similar to that Koch thing - Americans for Prosperity. Even bragged about eschewing ideology and working across the aisle. Which, ya know, always always results in the GOP just getting what they want in increments.

[Betty Karlson]

49. The corporations certainly got what they wanted. And very few installments were required. eom

[SusanCalvin]

129. Really. Campaign contributions are the best-return investment there is.

For corporations and billionaires, anyway.

[antigop]

2. Yep. nt

[RiverLover]

3. Its past time!

But better late than never.

[musiclawyer]

58. Those who can't understand the Democratic Party is dead will never get it

The party that struggled for the new deal and civil right and environmentalism died in the generation after was infiltrated by the Clintons, DLC and third way. It serves corporations mainly now and has survived by throwing crumbs to people. The millennials get it and have zero interest in either party as currently operated.
Third way would never have tried a new deal or even fought for the EPA.
Most of the country will be independent and decline to state in another cycle... unless Bernie wins.
So yeah. It's dead. Bernie is desperately trying CPR. And to my amazement some are trying to stop him.

[RKP5637]

4. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[One of the 99]

5. Purge sounds like something they do in dictatorships

[Amimnoch]

31. Only if it's done by force. Doing it with the vote is Democracy.

[One of the 99]

107. That sounds better.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. It happens when dictatorships are overthrown too....

When the People rose up against Milosevic they replaced all of his appointed officials too.

The dictator we are against is Wall Street.

[uhnope]

64. it shows Hartmann's been hanging out on Putin TV much too long

[MineralMan]

6. Interesting. Maybe Thom doesn't understand

how members of the DNC are selected. Every state elects their own, normally at their state convention. As with most things, the key is to become involved with the Democratic Party organization, starting at the local level. Then, with hard work, it's very possible to rise through that organization and be elected to the DNC by your state's party.

[HooptieWagon]

8. Good luck with that in Florida.

Unless you make a loyalty vow to the Third Way, you ain't going anywhere.

[MineralMan]

13. I have no experience with Florida.

I've visited that state a few times, but don't live there.

I've lived for long periods in California and Minnesota, and know that it's not difficult to get leadership positions at the local level at all. Basically, if you're willing to do some work, you can have the position. As the scope of the organization levels rise, it's somewhat more difficult, but all doable if you have the desire and energy to do what is required.

At age 70, I'm no longer interested in anything above the local level. I serve as a delegate to a couple of levels of conventions, but have not tried to be elected to any leadership positions at those levels. Frankly, though, some of those go begging and would be easy to achieve, particularly on committees, which are the first step toward demonstrating one's commitment.

So, have you tried in Florida and failed, or are you just speaking generally?

[HooptieWagon]

18. Speaking generally personally,...

...but have many friends and neighbors who have been to local party meetings in an attempt to swing the FlDemParty more progressive. It's a lost cause, as things stand now. DWS and Bill Nelson are the de facto heads of the state party...they aren't about to allow even a bit of progressivism creep in. It threatens their spots at the corporate feed trough.

[MineralMan]

84. Change can't be done by simply "being at local party meetings."

Change only happens when people actually participate in the local party organization. That takes work, cooperation with others and some serious devotion of time and effort to help. That's how you get to become part of leadership. There's no easy path. You have to build credibility, create and maintain relationships and run for leadership offices within the organization.

Then, you can do the same in the next level and the level above that and eventually become a leader in the state party. It takes years of hard work and dedication.

But, isn't the goal worth it? If it's not to you, then you have no chance to become part of party leadership. The current leaders within the party at all levels are those who have put in their time, worked their butts off and earned those positions. If you're not willing to do that, you won't get there. It's pretty simple, really, and that's how it works in all multi-level organizations.

You can do it, if you want, but if you don't want it bad enough to do what's required, you will never get there. It's up to you.

[FighttheFuture]

119. Change can also happen when people say "fuck this shit" and stay home and Trump or some other

R assclown takes the reins. Wonder how DWS and the other corpro-crats of the Dem party would like that when they have no real party any longer.

[djean111]

52. DWS and Nelson have their thumbs firmly down at the state level.

No Progressive is going to get past Debbie if she can help it. The progressive caucus for Florida was threatened with de-certification if they persisted in backing Grayson against Murphy. I will be voting for Grayson, not a DINO that has only been a Dem since 2012 and only switched to run against Allan West.

DWS is open about not supporting Dems who run against her GOP buddies. She said she doesn't want to mess up her "working relationships". And she has a great deal of influence over the state party.

[MineralMan]

87. Yeah, OK, it's impossible, then.

It's certainly impossible if you don't get started and get to work at the local party organization level. It's up to you. Do you want to make changes? Then, if you want it badly enough, you'll do what's necessary to become part of party leadership. If not, then you'll be on the outside, complaining about something you can't change.

DWS will not always be the head of the DNC. Who will replace her? I don't know, but it will be someone who has put in the time and hard work to be in a leadership position. It's the same in every organization. You want to do it? Then it's past time to get started.

[djean111]

109. I know what you mean, it is just tough being here and actually knowing what Debbie is up to.

Also, a guy I know of ran for a US Representative seat from NC, and the DNC made him jump through hoops before they would sanction him or whatever, and then they did not help him much. So I guess I am a bit pessimistic, and you are right, that does not change things ever.

[Hortensis]

97. The far left taking over the Democratic Party

is both completely impossible and completely out of the question. Impossible because there are a lot more liberals than far-lefters. Completely out of the question because that would be tantamount to destroying it. We couldn't allow that. With the help of 40 years of investments by ultraconservatives, extremists took over the GOP and look what happened there.

To wonder if this could be true, just look at the behavior here right in this thread. Purge? You're going to "purge" the party of Democrats? Not only unbelievably aggressive and nasty, but bizarrely...disconnected. How would it ever win another election?

Pretending it were possible, don't you realize that we'd just form our own party and go on winning elections under a new name? This is a democracy. And it's not just that majorities wins. Liberals and the moderate conservatives in the party are competent and balanced, the truest representative America has of its people. The party thrived and grew because of competence and because of that reality.

Run by the far left, its membership would shift to their new party, and the abandoned Democratic Party would shrink to the usual insignificance of the little parties on the fringe that no one ever remembers the names of. At best.

Of course, this is all hot air. But it's hot air with a lesson. Every time the Bsers here get to feeling big in their britches they start talking about taking over and "purging."

[-none]

103. What you are calling the Far Left, is the main stream Democratic Party base.

It just looks like the Far Left from the 3rd Way prospective. Otherwise why do you think Bernie Sanders is being shown such strong support?
I'll answer for you. It is because Bernie IS representing what the Democratic Party used to be. He is giving us, the main stream Democratic base, something other than the usual lesser of the evils for a change.

[Hortensis]

104. Keep imagining that. But -- to do that is your choice.

If things don't turn out as you expect, it wouldn't be because of Hillary's mountains of "lies." Not the DNC's evil machinations. It'll be because of what you told yourself. Remember that in the end.

[Dems2002]

134. The truth isn't imaginary

Check out the maps of the states that have voted so far and you'll see a surprising thing revealed...Hillary is winning the democratic bastions and Bernie is winning everywhere else. He's crushing her amongst independents. So...do we really think Democrats won't vote for Bernie in the General?

[Hortensis]

135. The truth is not imaginary. Exactly.

Bernie has a distant chance of winning. Hoping based on that truth is reasonable, expecting based on imaginary interpretations is not.

[Ivan Kaputski]

113. There's no point in trying to take over a party that not an FDR Democratic party.

[AgingAmerican]

10. Obama appointed DWS

[MineralMan]

15. Yes he did, as is his privilege.

That is the top leadership position in the DNC. The rest of the DNC members are elected by their state party organizations. It's the Democratic National Committee. Staff positions are hired, but the committee members are elected, state by state, not directly by the public, but by the party organizations in those states.


I'm not saying that it's easy to rise to that level within the party. I'm simply saying that the party is where the DNC comes from. If you want to change it, it will have to be done at the state party organization level. Getting to be a leader in the state organization takes a few years of hard work on the tasks done by the party and having some leadership skills.

[AgingAmerican]

26. The top of the DNC needs purged

[MineralMan]

88. Purged? Who's going to do the purging, do you suppose?

Are you part of your state's party organization? If not, it certainly won't be possible to "purge" anyone. Are you a party leader? No? Then how do you think that is going to happen?

If you want to make changes in the party, become part of the party. Become a leader. That's the only way it's going to happen.

I'm too old to start that process. I also have no desire to be in party leadership beyond the local organization level. If you do, though, there is a clearly identifiable path toward that, and it starts in your local area. I encourage you to get involved and do the hard work of becoming a leader in the party.

[AgingAmerican]

100. Purged

And pronto. D3bbie Wasserman Schultz is poison

[FighttheFuture]

120. and he forced out Howard Dean and deep sixed the "50 State Strategy" that worked so

well for him and the Democrats. Thanks Obama.

[Peregrine Took]

126. Of course he did - he's DLC all the way.

Used to have it on his old Illinois website but had it purged off when he became a national candidate.

[WillyT]

14. Except... TruthOut, TruthOut, TruthOut...

This article was first published on Truthout and any reprint or reproduction on any other website must acknowledge Truthout as the original site of publication.

According to one Michigan mayor, members of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) asked security to eject audience members who vocally supported Bernie Sanders during Sunday's debate in Flint, Michigan.

Seriously.

Jim Fouts, a three-term Independent mayor of Warren, Michigan, attended Sunday's Democratic debate, just like he had attended the Republican debate on Thursday. Fouts told Buzzfeed News that the GOP audience was loud when he attended that debate on Thursday, and even though he wasn't expecting the Democratic debate to be quite as rowdy as the Republicans, he expected to be able to express himself.

But after Sunday's debate, he wrote on Facebook that:

The Democratic debate is totally controlled by Hillarys [sic] good friend DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz. No commentary is allowed by the audience. Particularly if you are cheering Bernie Sanders. Persons who do not adhere to Hillarys [sic] rules are threatened with expulsion.

He told BuzzFeed News that he was seated behind Wasserman Schultz, and that he was praising Bernie's performance and talking about how this debate proved that more debates were a good idea for the Democrats.

Then, during an early commercial break, Fouts and his assistant were taken out of their seats and the sergeant at arms told him, "The people that run this want you ejected, they don't want you here." Fouts was allowed to watch the rest of the debate from his seat, but he had to be careful about even clapping too loud or at the wrong time, for fear of getting ejected.

On Monday, Fouts joined the growing chorus of voices calling for Wasserman Schultz to step down as the chair of the Democratic National Committee. But really, she should have resigned months ago, and she probably shouldn't have ever held the position in the first place. Not just because she's repeatedly and blatantly attempted to tip the scales in Hillary Clinton's favor during the Democratic primary, but also because, based on her words and her votes, she is exactly the type of so-called "centrist" corporate Democrat that the party needs to rid from its ranks.

To start, she's right now co-sponsoring a bill that would gut the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's payday loan and car loan regulations, basically protecting loan sharks from regulations at the expense of low-income Americans. Never mind the fact that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is one of Barack Obama and Elizabeth Warren's major progressive achievements to reign in financial abuses.

She also just lifted the ban that President Obama himself put in place that bans lobbyists from donating to the Democratic National Committee, and her lifting of that ban officially ended one of the few remaining rules that stem the tide of corporate money into the Democratic Party.

In the most recent omnibus spending bill, she voted for one provision that prevents the Securities and Exchange Commission from writing rules that would require corporations to disclose political spending to shareholders. In the same bill, she voted for another provision that would make it impossible for the IRS to create rules to curb special interest donors from forming "social welfare organizations" to hide political spending.

Schultz was one of the 28 Democrats who voted for fast-tracking the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and she received $300,000 from interest groups backing the trade deal, presumably for that vote, according to the The American Prospect.

Just after the Democratic party lost the House and Senate catastrophically back in 2014, Wasserman Schultz voted to eliminate that part of Dodd-Frank that had prevented big banks from using deposits to speculate in financial derivatives.

Not to mention the fact that even though 58 percent of people from both parties in Florida support legalizing medical marijuana, Debbie Wasserman Schultz still opposes legalizing medical marijuana. She says it's because marijuana is a gateway drug, but it might have more to do with the tens of thousands of dollars she's gotten from the alcohol industry since she's been in Congress.

That's just a glimpse at Wasserman Schultz' voting record, and it shows a pattern of voting for pro-corporate legislation and for legislation that opens our political system to even more political spending and corruption.

On defense and national security, she's supported Republican ideas like extraditing NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden back to the United States to be arrested and prosecuted because he "jeopardized millions of Americans,"and she voted to extend the Patriot Act.

But even if she did support truly progressive and Democratic causes, she's not even particularly good at rallying the party that she's supposed to be leading.

She even recently alienated part of the Democratic base when she told the The New York Times that young women aren't supporting Hillary Clinton because there's "a complacency among the generation of young women whose entire lives have been lived after Roe v. Wade was decided."

Back in 2014, before the Republicans took control of both chambers of Congress, Debbie Wasserman Schultz successfully depressed the Democratic base by telling Politico, "I'm not going to confidently predict that Democrats will take the House back." With that kind of leadership, Democrats didn't just not win the House, they also lost the Senate.

Considering her positions, though, she's probably more comfortable with a Republican-controlled Congress than a truly progressive Democratic Party.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz isn't the only Democrat-In-Name-Only (DINO) in the Democratic leadership. But as the DNC Chair, she is the highest-ranking DINO in the party.

Even if Bernie Sanders doesn't get the nomination, progressive Democrats need to stand up and challenge the corporate DINOs who currently run the party, like law professor and real progressive Tim Canova is doing with his primary challenge in Debbie Wasserman Schultz' district.

It's time to restore the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, and we should start with the chair.

This article was first published on Truthout and any reprint or reproduction on any other website must acknowledge Truthout as the original site of publication.

Link: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/35137-it-s-time-to-rid-the-dnc-of-dinos-starting-with-the-chair

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511462883

[MineralMan]

16. I'm not seeing what that has to do with my reply to the OP.

Perhaps you can explain.

[Ed Suspicious]

32. Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't quite get it. Sounds legit.

[corbettkroehler]

72. Howard Dean Leapt To The Top

You describe the conventional approach. Desperate times call for desperate measures. We need the 2005 DNC leadership change again, albeit without the fact that Howard Dean has tilted corporate. His 50-State strategy helped elect Barack Obama. Let's not forget that!

[MineralMan]

89. Howard Dean worked his ass off to get where he is.

Did you think that he suddenly became the head of the DNC? He's been working within the party for decades. No outsider will ever head the DNC. It's a party organization that starts in every precinct in the country. It's a bottom-up system. The precinct organization feeds the local district or county organization, which feeds the congressional district organization, which feeds the state organization, which feeds the DNC.

The path to leadership starts at the local level. Howard Dean and DWS have long, long histories with the Democratic Party organization. There is no other path, frankly.

[Hortensis]

114. Very interesting, MM. Our bottom-up system

is something to be proud of, though of course nothing is without tradeoffs. In spite of being a Democrat for 45 years, I didn't realize how strongly it was built into the structure.

[MineralMan]

133. Yes. The Democratic Party is a well-established grass-roots party.

Most people are not really aware of that, and think it functions the other way around. It takes a lot of time to make big changes in a bottom-up organization, since it has to start at the lowest levels. I suppose that creates a certain amount of stability, though, and maybe that's a good thing.

[Hortensis]

136. Wide-spread grass-roots party in 50 states plus.

It's been a long time since I thought of it that way, but of course. Your posts so often help fill in or focus the picture better. Thank you.

[WillyT]

7. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[VulgarPoet]

9. The fish rots from the head down

and it's been rotten for a while now. We'd be better served casting our line and catching a new fish, and opening our own stand.

[Hekate]

59. What will you name your new party?

I'm very curious, as it may be an idea whose time has come. How will you build a national infrastructure? How are you building a local infrastructure? Have you figured out yet that the DNC isn't responsible for registering people to vote at rallies, but that it is the work of local volunteers?

JURY: Poster said "We'd be better served casting our line and catching a new fish, and opening our own stand."

[MineralMan]

115. You are incorrect.

Fish, like all vertebrates, begin to decompose from the belly, not the head. Your metaphor fails, because it is simply based on a n incorrect premise. You can test this. Go catch a fish. Put it in your front porch and watch it for a few days. Long after its belly bursts from within, it's ahead will look much as it did when you caught it.

[RKP5637]

11. DWS and the DNC are handing the 2016 election to Trump!!! n/t

[Trust Buster]

12. That's what the Tea Party says about moderate Republicans.

Can't see how purging moderates on both sides of the political spectrum will lead to the government addressing the challenges that face this country. That approach will only yield legislative paralysis IMO. Perhaps moderate Dems and moderate Repubs should form a Party that would dwarf the two extremes.

[Fuddnik]

75. She's not a moderate.

She's a back-stabbing, conniving asshole. A real Republican.

And I know this from having dealt with her in electoral matters. I was managing a congressional campaign in Florida, when she came out and endorsed "her friend", our Republican opponent.

After we beat their hand-picked DLC candidate by over 10 pts. in the primary. Under her, Nelson, and the FDP Chair, we got zero support from the party.

[Trust Buster]

77. I humbly ask that no one alert on the above post.

I don't want seven jurors to judge the above post. I would rather the entire DU population judge the above post. Thank you

[dana_b]

81. I judge that this person is telling the truth

and sounds like they know something about dealing with DWS in elections and who SHE really supports - and it ain't progressives!

[Trust Buster]

83. My request still stands.

.

[dana_b]

90. sounds good. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

138. DWS also teamed up w/sheldon adelson to keep sending medical marijuana users to prison.

It's not an "attack" to say she allies herself with Republicans, its part of the record.

[bvar22]

110. More background on DWS:

In 2008 Debbie Wasserman Schultz refused to endorse these 3 Democrats
who had won their Primaries and had a chance to win Republican seats:

Miami-Dade Democratic Party Chair Joe Garcia

Former Hialeah Democratic Mayor Raul Martinez

Democratic businesswoman Annette Taddeo

All three had won their local Democratic Primaries, and were challenging Hard Core Republican incumbents with whom Wasserman-Schultz had become cozy.
Not only did the head of the DCCC Red to Blue Program REFUSE to endorse these Democratic challengers,
but she appeared in person at at least one (possibly more) Campaign/Fundraiser for their Republican opponents.

FL-18, FL-21, FL-25: Wasserman Schultz Wants Dem Challengers to Lose
by: James L.
Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 7:15 PM EDT
<snip>

Sensing a shift in the political climate of the traditionally solid-GOP turf of the Miami area, Democrats have lined up three strong challengers -- Miami-Dade Democratic Party chair Joe Garcia, former Hialeah Mayor Raul Martinez, and businesswoman Annette Taddeo to take on Reps. Mario Diaz-Balart, Lincoln Diaz-Balart and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, respectively.

While there is an enormous sense of excitement and optimism surrounding these candidacies, some Democratic lawmakers, including Florida Reps. Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Kendrick Meek, are all too eager to kneecap these Democratic challengers right out of the starting gate in the spirit of "comity" and "bipartisan cooperation" with their Republican colleagues:

But as three Miami Democrats look to unseat three of her South Florida Republican colleagues, Wasserman Schultz is staying on the sidelines. So is Rep. Kendrick Meek, a Miami Democrat and loyal ally to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

This time around, Wasserman Schultz and Meek say their relationships with the Republican incumbents, Reps. Lincoln Diaz-Balart and his brother Mario, and Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, leave them little choice but to sit out the three races.

"At the end of the day, we need a member who isn't going to pull any punches, who isn't going to be hesitant," Wasserman Schultz said.

Now, you'd expect this kind of bullshit from a backbencher like Alcee Hastings, but you wouldn't expect this kind of behavior from the co-chair of the DCCC's Red to Blue program, which is the position that Wasserman Schultz currently holds. Apparently, Debbie did not get Rahm's memo about doing whatever it takes to win:

The national party, enthusiastic about the three Democratic challengers, has not yet selected Red to Blue participants. But Wasserman Schultz has already told the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee that if any of the three make the cut, another Democrat should be assigned to the race.

http://www.swingstateproject.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1537

The bloggers also are furious with Rep. Kendrick B. Meek (D-Fla.), who similarly refuses to endorse the Democratic challengers to the three Cuban American Republicans.

They are calling for Wasserman Schultz to step down from her leadership role at the DCCC. And they're not letting up, even after one Florida liberal blogger reported that the congresswoman seemed "frustrated" by the blogs and had asked to "please help get them off my back."

This prompted even harsher reaction from perhaps the most influential of the progressive political bloggers, Markos Moulitsas, a.k.a. Kos, founder of Daily Kos, who wrote on his blog Wednesday: "On so many fronts, the Republicans are standing in the way of progress, on Iraq, SCHIP, health care, fiscal responsibility, corruption, civil liberties, and so on. Those three south Florida Republicans are part of that problem. And she's (Wasserman-Schultz) going to be 'frustrated' that people demand she do her job?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/19/AR2008031903410_3.html

Here are Kos comments on the Wasserman-Schultz betrayal of the Democratic Party:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/03/20/480511/-DCCC-Says-Uproar-Over-DWS-Recusal-Much-Ado-About-Nothing




A lot of time has passed since 2008, but I don't take these kinds of betrayals lightly. Now I find that DWS has been PROMOTED from Chair of the Red to Blue Program
to Chair of the DNC. She must be making the "Centrist" Democratic Leadership VERY HAPPY if they are rewarding THIS kind of Party Treason.

bvar22
Cursed with a memory

"I want to thank Debbie Wasserman-Schultz for being an outstanding chair of our party. (Applause.) She is a great partner."--President Obama

With "partners" like this, we don't need Republicans!

[Scootaloo]

132. Alert results:

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Fri Mar 11, 2016, 10:33 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

She's not a moderate.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1469073

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

One does not refer to the DNC Chair as a "back-stabbing, conniving asshole. A real Republican" on DU. Some may disagree with DWS but this is way, way over the top. Sexist and anti-DEM.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 11, 2016, 10:39 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: DWS campaigned for Republicans against democrats in her district. She lies lots. She's definitely conniving. Not sure where you draw "sexist" from any of this. No hide.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: -_-
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: DWS is a public figure, so she's fair game, even on DU.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: My take - personal attacks to other DU members or groups are bad. Attacks on elected officials OK, unless they are completely over the top, and this is close, but doesn't deserve a hide.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I didn't find anything sexist about it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[jwirr]

93. IMO the Tea Party and the dino's in the DLC/Third Way

are the same exact thing except that they are on opposite sides of the political structure. The DLC just moved in to overtake the Democratic Party in the 90s. When we say we want them out we are talking about moving back to the FDR values party many of us still remember.

I also think both the Tea Party and the DLC originated from the same area of the country - the south.

[Trust Buster]

98. But the middle is where compromise can be found.

The far Right hates the word compromise and have tried to rule with an iron fist. Look at the shape of their Party now. Do we really want to imitate their strategy ?

[jwirr]

99. What's to compromise if you are already at the middle?

Often President Obama started a negotiation by throwing some vital democratic value under the bus. Which really meant that he was starting his argument on the right of center. That more than usually also led to giving more than what he got in return.

As to the shape of our party - a lot of us do not think it is in such great shape either. IMO both parties are on the way down if they do not return to their original values.

[TheFarS1de]

17. K&R

[Adrahil]

19. Hey, give him a break! He's on RT.

Putin and his cronies love them some purges.

[Bubzer]

25. More red-baiting crap.

[Adrahil]

74. I didn't say anything about "red"

In fact, I don't think Putin is very Red at all. He's a fascist.

[Bubzer]

76. Oh, so you're claiming complete and total ignorance over how most people align fascism and socialism

Okay... welcome DU...you must new here

[Adrahil]

80. You assume too much.

I said NOTHING about socialism. If I mean something about it, I would have said so.

Socialism in my mind has nothing to do with fascism. OTOH, I think calls for purges in the Democratic party isn't very socialist either.

[Bubzer]

85. Well in that case, I can't wait to see your scathing rebuke of your fellow hillary supporters...

who support purges here. I suspect I'll be hearing nothing but crickets.

[pinebox]

29. And Dem townhalls are held on FOX

Big flippin' deal

[Hekate]

63. Shh. They think it's red baiting to point this out.

I don't think some people even know what red baiting is.

[uhnope]

68. +1! Thom probably got a wheelbarrow of bonus rubles for this one

[SalviaBlue]

117. Thom Hartmann under the bus?

Seriously

[kgnu_fan]

20. K&R x gazillions!!!!

[CharlotteVale]

21. K&R

[Dr Hobbitstein]

22. Why do we care what some asshole on RT thinks about the Democratic party?

No one on RT has an ounce of credibility.

[Gene Debs]

27. Do you even know who Thom Hartmann is? Anything about his record, or his credentials? Did you

watch even a moment of the clip? Did you actually listen to what he had to say? Or did you just see an RT logo and dismiss it all out of hand?

Thom Hartmann's probably on RT because no mainstream corporate network will let him get near the airwaves.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

40. I know who he is.

He lost ALL credibility when he started licking Putin's boots.

[marmar]

35. Thom was one of our top progressive voices before he had an rt show....

..... but I suspect you already knew that.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

39. And then he went to Putin News Network.

No progressive does that.

[marmar]

41. Actually, quite a few progressives went to RT ....

...... because no other network would give them a forum.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

65. Progressives have no place on a

regressive network like RT. If they're there, then they're NOT progressive.

FUCK RT, and anyone who supports it's homophobic, anti-west agenda.

[marmar]

67. A DNC that rigs primaries......

..... and the Democratic Party chair who protects payday lenders are not Progressive

[Gene Debs]

42. So what parts of his commentary here are wrong? Specifically?

[FighttheFuture]

123. He still is. Thank God for RT that gives voice to many american progressives. This is not

the case with the "home of the free land of the brave crap" corporate controlled MSM we have!!

[uhnope]

54. +1

[truebrit71]

71. Oh, there's an asshole in this thread alright...

...but it isn't Thom Hartmann...

You have shown yourself to be spectacularly uninformed...

[Kittycat]

79. +1000 I guess the poster supports republican efforts and payday lenders

Since he refuses to disput the facts being presented, and instead attacks the messenger.

[Ivan Kaputski]

112. ^ this ^

[dana_b]

91. "some asshole"??

wow....

[FighttheFuture]

124. Because his credibility is beyond question and he knows so much more than you, obviously.

That's why I care!

[appalachiablue]

23. K & R. Amen!

[stupidicus]

24. but, but it coming from "RT" invalidates it all

because it does.

It's long overdue imo, and their efforts at censorship are just another thing they proudly share with their rightwing cousins.

[Gene Debs]

28. Is waiting for Schultz to resign the only way to be rid of her? Can she not be removed?

[Loki]

30. Thom

We would be far better off if we didn't have Democrats like Senator Joe Manchin from West Virginia. He's is a joke , a Republican and much, much more damaging in the Senate and DWS could ever be. Let's start with the real problems first, not just the ones that you think don't support Bernie.

[liberalnarb]

33. DWS has played a major role in rigging this primary.

[Loki]

56. Rigging?

You all love conspiracy theories don't you? Everything is meant to keep something, someone, some idea from being heard. Go after the real Dinos, in fact, start with all the ones in the House and Senate that keep voting with the Republicans. That's a good start if you want anything that BS or Hillary would want to get passed. Who is the real enemy here? Not me.

[liberalnarb]

60. Rigging. If Bernie hadn't sued the DNC there wouldn't have been as many debates as we've had. In

fact, they probably would let Bernie into the debates like they did to Lessig

[Loki]

62. Reality check here.

Politics has never been a clean business, and as Harry T. once so profoundly stated, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the damn kitchen."

[liberalnarb]

66. Of course its not a clean "business". But that doesn't mean we have to sit back and let the people

in power get away with everything.

[liberalnarb]

34. Tim Canova!

TimCanova.com

[mountain grammy]

47. Thanks..

just chipped in for his campaign!

[liberalnarb]

57. Way to go

[HenryWallace]

37. Don't like "DINO" terminology!

Let the authoritarian Republican's keep their "RINO" pejorative.......

How about if we work to recruit, enable & encourage candidates who embrace progressive values.

Effective progressive candidates running in conservative districts have the best chance of changing the playing field! Progressive policies work; if implemented they are overwhelmingly popular. We need to have the courage of our convictions.

[Chicago1980]

38. H said that he'll also support Hillary if she gets the nomination.

He's a Bernie endorser and a Hillary supporter.

He's actually mentioned several times on his show that he's pleased that Hillary has seemingly moved more to the left.

[marmar]

44. Listen to him lately.

Thom knows Hillary's "moves to the left" are primary-only tactics.

[Chicago1980]

101. I listen daily and what I say still stands.

He's a Bernie endorser and Hillary supporter and will without hesitation vote for her if she gets the nomination. He stated this yesterday.

He hasn't said her move to the left is a primary tactic.

[progressivesonly]

102. Thom hypocrite?

I stopped listening to Hartmann's show when he started to stop the Bernie or Bust movement. And when he tried to pretend Hillary was better than a Republican. Her record says otherwise. The fact that he tries to have Bernie supporters vote against our own interests by supporting Hillary if she is the nominee is what made me turned his show off.

[calguy]

43. The birth of a left wing tea party

The new left wing tea party believes=
My way or the highway.
If you don't agree with all of my positons, then you're obviously not "liberal" enough and you need to go.
No room in the new left wing tea party for any thought other than their own.
The new left wing tea party is quite willing to destroy their own party if all their demands are not met.
Sound familiar???

[marmar]

45. No. The DNC, particularly dws, is willing to destroy the party....

.... by acting fundamentally undemocratic in the nomination process. But in the social media era, all of their bullshit gets exposed quickly and they take a lot of heat for it.

[calguy]

92. Sounds like something a tea partier would say

[marmar]

94. Your post sounds like a lot of projection.

Are you calling me a tea partier? At least have the courage to say it, rather than some passive-aggressive bullshit.

[beltanefauve]

105. Bill, is that you?

[NCTraveler]

46. And that is why he is a talker and not a decision maker.

I'm good with DWS exiting after the election. The rest is just foolishness. Then again, he is preaching to the choir who line his pockets so I full understand what he is doing.

I'm more excited to purge the "audit the fed" crowd after this primary. Not that they were ever democrats in the first place. Guess what Hartmann, I'll be correct on this one and we will be a stronger party for it.

[rtracey]

48. so tell me

Am i a DINO? Tell me if I am a DINO or not. I support progress to help the downtrodden in our country and the world. I support any action that will keep Social Security and medicare running well, active and NOT privatized. I support the ACA and feel if one is able to pay for healthcare they should, I also think that anyone who does NOT want medicare and social security should have the right to not take it. I support free education to all that are not able to pay, but I do believe anyone who has the means should assist in paying some portion of the education bill. I don't like to run up large bills, I don't like to live beyond my means. Although, I do not have a say in the abortion fight, I believe its a choice between a woman (and partner if she choices) and her physician. I believe the government should not have a say in this issue. I do not have an say in the gay marriage issue. I believe 2 people who love each other should have a right to marry, be them gay or not, although I do not believe this is a government issue, only in the licensing...its not an issue for myself and my wife, so why not William and Frank, or Mary and Beth.....

I believe I am a good democrat, but I have lost faith in the party. I believe the democratic party is split between the ultra left very liberal and a moderate centrist left leaning, but nothing in between that. THIS IS WHERE I FALL. Not so liberal that I don't recognize some aspects and not to centrist that I dont recognize others.

For this reason, I have been called a DINO.

[dana_b]

95. which is really sad because

all of what you are saying sounds pretty reasonable and I swear that 10 years ago I heard many, MANY people here saying the same things. We were all so unified against the Bush administration that we had room for all types of differing views but your views were pretty standard and very popular!

Personally I agree with you on most of that. Maybe I'm a little more left than that but you get the idea. However because of the way that the party has moved, I have been an independent for 7 years now and I don't see going back unless the party changes back and actually welcomes those more on the left back.

[rtracey]

116. i agree

And what I didnt mention is I believe, I too have decided to leave this party and website and go independent. I will be in search for an independent political forum. The pure hate rhetoric on here is disturbing.

[Hekate]

50. Who will there be left to get the work done...

...when everybody who disagrees with you is gone?

[marmar]

55. I think you've answered your own loaded question

[Hekate]

70. It's a real question, marmar. It's only "loaded" if you can't answer it. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

139. ...Someone who doesnt insult millennials and want to put sick people in prison for using cannabis?

We could start there.

[NurseJackie]

51. "RT" ... What's that?

[Hekate]

69. Russia Today: Not a credible news source, but often a propaganda outlet

I'm sure Thom is just glad they gave him his own gig there, but on the whole the place is as biased as the government that created it and keeps it running.

An authoritarian government, by the way. Really, really authoritarian.

[FighttheFuture]

125. Vs. our corporate controlled MSM? Okay.... I suggest you watch it and evaluate it. Good names

on there, like Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, etc. Interesting sorties and the news if decent. If it is reporting on Russian relations, Ukraine or Mideast conflict, keep that in mind but evaluate it with our bullshit waste info time info-tainment here. Overall can provide a better balanced picture of the world and more nuance.

[uhnope]

53. RT lol...too bad Hartmann has shredded his own credibility for this to matter

[FighttheFuture]

122. To bad you let your prejudice blind you to know where you can obtain decent news

if you understand what you are watching. RT (Russian TV) is pretty good for a lot of news on many subjects.

[Auggie]

61. !!!K&R!!!

[TeamPooka]

73. Let's make our party great again? nt

[Hortensis]

118. We are already the party who elected Obama,

TeamPooka, and have been fighting the growing authoritarianism and fascist influence in our nation. The far left is too busy fighting the Democrats and invested in far right anti-Democrat and anti-liberal propaganda to realize that. Some in this crowd do not have it in them to join with liberals, and some of those will join the right, as happened before, but most others do and will eventually.

Be patient. It is not time yet for this forum, but remember something like 80% of all those who have voted for Bernie so far also like and respect Hillary and are satisfied with her as their second choice. And most of her supporters also similarly accept and even admire him. In the real world vs. the one the far-lefties in DU imagine, we are already well on the way to being strongly united.

[TeamPooka]

121. That's why I was questioning the OP premise. When I look at this Trump rally in Chicago

on TV right now I can't imagine a world where every sane and center left leaning person and some conservatives unite to defeat this guy and his followers.

[dana_b]

78. I love Thom

he's so sensible and knows what is going on in the party from the top to the streets.

[EndElectoral]

82. DWS has got to go. Embarrassing.

[Waiting For Everyman]

86. Yes, indeed. Long overdue.

The gravy train frat-party is over. We see you behind the curtain.

DWS lost us Congress, she's the biggest loser ever. Get the fuck out, DINO Debbie! And take all your nasty liittle traitorous sell out pals with you.

Although in my book "the top" starts with HRC.

[dana_b]

96. they are together in this along with Bill n/t

[harun]

106. She will probably be Hillary's Chief of Staff if elected. Rahm Emanuel 2.0.

[Waiting For Everyman]

108. Come to think of it

I'm sure you're exactly right. I'd put a heavy bet on that.

[HereSince1628]

111. What a joke. Why PURGE the BETTER politicians?

Thom says the Dem candidate is always better.

This purging DINO stuff seems like he's hedging.

OK Thom who gets to decide which politician is DINO enough?

Sanders supporters? You tell them they gotta go with the nominee because Dems are ALWAYS better.

[Metric System]

127. Purge? Sounds like tea party talk. So much for the big tent.

[Ilsa]

128. DLC is an infiltration of the DNC by GOP.

DLC wins, we get GOP-Lite policies. Otherwise, it's GOP and we all lose.

[Enthusiast]

130. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

Thank you, Thom!

Get rid of DWS! Now!

[Dont call me Shirley]

131. Thank you, Thom.

[Le Taz Hot]

137. There's not way to do that.

They've got every angle tied up. You guys haven't even heard of the bullshit they're pulling with the California delegate process. Look at the shenanigans at the caucuses. In California, it's IN THEIR RULES that anyone challenging a "Democratic" incumbent will get no support from the CDP (which will actively work AGAINST a challenger). We're way past "changing from within." That ship sailed.