So disappointed in Bernie supporters who say they will not vote for Hillary if she is the nominee!

[Logical]

First off, I have complained about Hillary in MANY MANY posts. I honestly do not like her.

But if she is the nominee and you do not vote for her I honestly look forward to you being banned from the DU.

WTF is wrong with you?

This polls results make Bernie supporters look like idiots.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1475599

Either you are a troll or really do not understand how dangerous Cruz or Trump will be if they win.

I have to admit the Hillary fans seldom if ever say they will not vote for Bernie. Maybe that makes them a hell of a lot smarter than the Bernie supporters.

wow, Bernie would be disappointed in you.

[UglyGreed]

1. perhaps you are a troll

for harassing and belittling people to vote the way you want them to.....IMO this is not helpful at all.

[Logical]

3. If you don't support a dem over a GOP idiot you are an idiot IMO. nt

[DCBob]

7. +1

[liberal_at_heart]

9. Is this honestly your strategy for getting people to vote for Hillary? calling people names.

Good luck with that. Not only am I trashing this thread. You are going on my ignore list.

[Logical]

13. LOL, good, and good bye! nt

[roguevalley]

70. what blows my mind is the assumption that HRC will be the nominee.

right now, she is in personal melt down over health care (see threads with OUTSTANDING photos), her pandering to the Reagans and her other many and sundries stupids. The assumption that she is what we have to vote for is worse than the rest of it.

[Logical]

78. I agree and want Bernie 100x over her. But if she is the nominee I will take her over Trump or Cruz!

[UglyGreed]

18. I will vote for who represents

my beliefs and wishes for the future and it looks like Jill Stein fits that bill....... Call people names all you want I don't like to be bullied or shamed into doing anything. Perhaps if others had the guts to make a stand then the Third Way, New Democrat way of thinking would of never come to be.

[Logical]

28. LOL, OK. nt

[peacebird]

29. I will vote for the best person, which means I will vote for Bernie Sanders!

[UglyGreed]

38. If Bernie is the

the nominee I will vote for him. If not I may write him in or vote for Jill.

[Sunlei]

53. What if Senator Sanders backs Mrs. Clinton? I'm positive he will endorse someone, if he doesn't win.

[UglyGreed]

57. So???

I am my own person and I'll do what I feel would be best for my family's life and mine......

[Sunlei]

93. I think Senator Sanders would know best, what's "best for a families life", by his endorsement.

Bernie would still be a Senator & back the D party, so all hope won't be lost.

[UglyGreed]

98. I think I would be

the best person to decide what would be best for.................me

[MirrorAshes]

160. honestly... really...

your dislike/distrust of Hillary outweighs your dislike/distrust of Trump or Cruz? How would one of them be better for you, let alone the thousands of people who will be directly hurt by them.

[UglyGreed]

170. Honestly

if Hillary is considered the best choice by so many as we are told by countless Hillary supporters than I who live in NY can and will vote my conscience. BTW Millions and millions of people are already being hurt and will continue to be hurt by imperialistic greedy "representatives" of the people. This has gone on for most of my life and it is time for a change.

[cwydro]

100. Well, you won't likely be on DU anymore.

If you stick to that.

[UglyGreed]

103. Well perhaps

DU will start a gofundme page so I can get the medical attention I desperately need........

[noretreatnosurrender]

113. You are right

The whole point of this OP is to bait people into getting thrown off DU.

[peacebird]

58. That's his choice. Mine is already made.

[peacebird]

55. If he is nominee, We'll vote for him. If not, we'll write him in!

[Sunlei]

85. In the general election, to write in a primary losers name doesn't count for anything, does it?

It's like not voting at all?

[JonLeibowitz]

111. No it adds to the vote totals and hence reduces the mandate of the President to effect their program

[yourpaljoey]

151. Approximately 90 percent of the Bernie voters I encounter say this

She better start EARNING some votes

[peacebird]

153. She cannot. She lies too much

[JTFrog]

33. If you are advocating for the Green party, why are you here?

Sowing seeds of discord?

This website's mission statement is devoted to electing Democrats to political office.

Period. End. Of.

[UglyGreed]

39. Go bother someone

else like Janey with her Right wing PAC post..........

[JTFrog]

40. I will post when and where I want to.

How authoritarian of you to assume or demand otherwise.

[UglyGreed]

52. If harassing me

once again gives you pleasure go right ahead whatever floats your boat....... Your snide and hypocritical remarks are as troublesome as a cloudy day.

[JTFrog]

56. That's rich given how you jumped into this thread.

[UglyGreed]

60. You replied

to my comment once again to only trash me once again. You have even trashed me in the Hillary group....

[JTFrog]

69. You jumped in to trash the OP.

You sure can dish it out can't you?

[UglyGreed]

76. I don't care

each post just shows your true colors. BTW the OP has not replied as many times as you have

[Fawke Em]

41. Bernie's not running on the Green ticket.

Right now, we're in the middle of a primary and the poster is supporting Bernie who is running for the Democratic ticket.

If Bernie is not the nominee, then the poster would be in TOS violation and probably won't post here any longer.

[JTFrog]

46. The poster is and has been pushing Jill Stein.

You can call it whatever you want, but I've seen enough of his divisive flamebait.

[Fawke Em]

72. In the general...

We're not there, yet.

The poster is pushing Bernie Sanders right now.

[cantbeserious]

75. Alert Results

On Sun Mar 13, 2016, 06:45 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I will vote for who represents
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1476924

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Advocating for the Green party is 100% against the TOS. DU is a website dedicated to electing Democrats to office. Not to being antagonistic and divisive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 13, 2016, 06:56 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Once a clear nominee has been chosen". Also, I would like to point out that Debbie-Wasserman-Schultz supports (and presumably votes for) her GOP buddies. Publicly.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This Citizen agrees that the DNC DWS DLC Third Way Establishment has to end. That establishment is doing everything it can to coronate HRC and is also doing everything it can to undermine Bernie. That establishment is enabling a perversion of Democracy. With that in mind, rational Citizens may be left with no other choice than to vote third-party. So in this environment - PARTY UNITY BE DAMNED!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a discussion board. It's OK to offer opinions.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Saying they're going to vote for the greens isn't advocating others do the same. It isn't against the TOS until the general election. I think some duers, yes I'm looking at you alerter, want du to be nothing but an echo chamber of those they agree with. Left wingers who vote for progressives have always been welcome at du.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[UglyGreed]

80. Thanks

looks like "someone" has tried and failed to shut me up. Wonder who that could of been????

[UglyGreed]

84. A big thank you

to all who voted for my right to speak my mind. I have suffered with chronic pain and now never ending headaches for many years now. From my point of view is not about just party it is about my survival. Sorry to be so selfish but sometimes those who suffer must speak up and take a stand while they still can.

[cantbeserious]

90. You Are Welcome - The Time For Change Is Now - The Current Party Establishment Must Be Replaced

eom

[UglyGreed]

92. .

[truedelphi]

156. And is it not interesting that the anger is always at the thinking part of

The voting population, and not at the 45 to 55% of the populace that stays at home!

[Uglystick]

164. Thank you, juror #5

for imparting the wisdom.

[Bobbie Jo]

181. Well, bye...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=331487



Wisdom, etc...

[Lorien]

86. Me too

If the DNC wants our votes, then they won't run a pro-war, pro-fracking, pro-TPP, pro-Wall Street corruption, pro-for profit prisons Republican for office.

[GoneFishin]

107. Exactly, we are in the current dilemma because earlier generations of voters acquiesced

to this 'lesser of two evils' blackmail, and didn't tell the corporatist party leaders to fuck off every time they tried to pull this shit.

[UglyGreed]

114. I too accept responsibility

what we have become because I just accepted what was fed to me by the media and what not. Then came the internet combined with my disability allowing me the time to learn about corruption and how others have struggled and had their lives destroyed here and abroad. I wish I could of been enlightened earlier in my life.

[CajunBlazer]

167. Jill Stein is as qualified to be President as Ben Carson

I had never heard of her so I had to do some reading. Like Carson she is physician. She has run for several offices - Massachusetts House of Representatives, Massachusetts Secretary of the Commonwealth, Governor of Massachusetts, and President of the United States on Green Party ticket in 2012. She lost each of those races by very large margins.

However, she did manage to win 539 votes and get her self elected as one of 21 Town Meeting Representatives in her home town of Lexington, Massachusetts which has a huge population of 31,394.

With all of that experience I can see why you believe that she is totally qualified to be President of the United States and leader of the free world.

[UglyGreed]

169. Hillary's mistakes,

blunders and the fact she can not even recall history or even her own trips to Bosnia makes her a very very bad choice for POTUS............but you knew that already.

[tkmorris]

20. If you call someone an "idiot", then implore them to join your side

The monster in the mirror just might be you.

[Fawke Em]

35. Who says they're supporting a GOP idiot?

Of those who will vote (and that's not guaranteed), most plan to write in Bernie or vote for Jill Stein. Most of his supporters are liberals.

[Logical]

44. FFS, another Nader fiasco. nt

[zappaman]

37. +1

[paleotn]

77. Agree

The alternative is to horrible to contemplate. I'm 100% behind Bernie, but if it comes to it, Hillary has my vote

[Spacedog1973]

112. [phone]

Never a truer word was spoken

[Voice for Peace]

118. Not going to give my vote to somebody who lies to manipulate voters.

Never again. Nor will I vote from fear.

[marew]

122. +1! n/t

[Ferd Berfel]

130. I'm outraged that the DNC has rigged this

as best they can for the Corporate candidate by a chairperson that supports and legitimizes 300% loan sharking!



save the pomposity

[chillfactor]

11. seems like YOU are the troll...

and there was no " harassing and belittling people" in the original post......it was an honest heart-felt opinion.

[giftedgirl77]

24. +1000

That one is a certified HRC hater rightwing smears & all.

[UglyGreed]

91. .

Coming from a New Dem like yourself I'll take your comment with a whole lot of salt

[UglyGreed]

26. Perhaps

YOU are the troll calling others a troll....................

[JTFrog]

50. Yep, especially since they keep pushing a third party candidate here. n/t

[merrily]

142. Bashing people goes well beyond stating one's own "honest heart felt" opinion.

[liberal_at_heart]

2. trashing thread. By the way this kind of argument may work on some Democrats but does not work

on Independents. And 40% of Americans are now Independents.

[Logical]

5. You are welcome to take a hike if Hillary is the nominee. nt

[chillfactor]

4. same here....

i support Hillary...but I would vote for Bernie if he is the nominee....guess I am a TRUE Democrat...unlike Bernie supporters.

[Logical]

8. SOME Bernie supporters. nt

[chillfactor]

15. agreed....

thank you for the post.

[seattleite]

12. If Hillary represents what it means to be a Democrat

sure makes me happy to be an Independent.

[Uglystick]

165. +1

Me too.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

185. If you two are Independents, then why are you on a site named DEMOCRATIC Underground?

Isn't there some site for Independents if you are so proud of being Independents?

[PonyUp]

23. A Hillary supporter guesses they are a TRUE Democrat. Precious!

[democrattotheend]

140. Don't lump us all together

Many Bernie supporters on this forum, myself included, have been very clear that they will support Hillary if she wins the nomination.

[Mudcat]

6. saying you won't vote for her isn't saying you'll vote for someone else

It's just saying the candidate the party picks, doesn't represent your interests, values, or beliefs.

Insisting people go against their own values by voting for a candidate seems... undemocratic

[Logical]

10. Stupid argument. nt

[Fawke Em]

48. Actually, it's a far more more reasonable arguement

than pitching a fit and calling others names because they won't vote for who you want them to.

[DCBob]

14. Well said.

Thank you from a Hillary supporter who will definitely vote for Bernie if he wins.

[grossproffit]

19. Looks like we're the only rec's so far.

[DCBob]

32. Sad...

but at least a few of us are in agreement.

[grossproffit]

71. and logical.

[grossproffit]

16. We agree!

[HooptieWagon]

17. Republican-lite isn't good enough.

Not going to hold my nose and vote for neo-liberal economics and neo-conservative foreign policy. Sanders will get the nomination, and I'm voting for him.

[Fawke Em]

21. Business as usual is the problem.

Many Sanders supporters are the young and disenfranchised who are not beholden to any party. Please understand that's why he'd win in November and Hillary won't. These people don't want "business as usual" and will vote their conscience. Most are liberal, so they'll write in Bernie or go Green. Those who are just pissed at the system in general might go Trump. Some won't be motivated to vote at all.

The problem isn't what's wrong with Bernie supporters. The problem is why are you perpetuating the business-as-usual system knowing what the end result will be?

[UglyGreed]

31. Wonder how

many have suffered for over 4 years with a never ending headache and even with insurance I can not get the testing I need because of cost. Trolls indeed....... they can GTFO I'm tired of suffering.

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. IMO, that argument only works for swing-state voters.

While I'll keep an eye on the polls to make sure, it's overwhelmingly likely that my vote in my reliably-blue state won't matter in the least. I can vote for Vermin Supreme (or my cat) with a perfectly clear conscience, knowing there's no way my state's sad little collection of Electors will never go to the orcs. I despise the anti-democratic Electoral College...but it's saving me from having to make a faustian bargain yet again.

[IllinoisLabour]

25. I'm an independent. Hillary doesn't represent my interests.

The Democratic Party needs people like me, but we don't need the Democratic Party. Bernie is the guy who draws independents and will bring our votes to those down-ticket Dems. Hillary is the lady who drives us off with neoliberal economics and neoconservative foreign policy.

Candidates who don't represent me aren't somehow inherently entitled to my vote or my money. That's how democracy works, right?

The DLC types like Hillary have the same economic & foreign policy stances as the mainstream Republicans. That makes both parties equally disappointing. I'm not at all happy with the majority of what the bought-and-paid-for Democratic Party has done in Congress or the White House.

I'm happy to party with you guys as long as an actual progressive populist is in the running, but if you ditch him, it's Jill Stein 2016!

[think]

27. I'd vote against Trump. That is all.

[Logical]

30. Me too! And that is 100% ok. nt

[NurseJackie]

34. Thank you. Well said ...

... especially your observations about the poll results. You're not only wise, but also very brave.

[Nanjeanne]

36. When Hillary earns my vote - I will vote for her. I own my vote and it's no one's business

what I decide.

Bernie will be disappointed in me? Oh well.

Voting is personal. I'll make my own decisions. Thanks!

[Luciferous]

158. +1

[Spider Jerusalem]

42. I don't see where I have any particular incentive to vote for Clinton, personally.

Voting in Georgia, as I do, I have never once voted for the candidate who won the state (starting from my first vote for Bill Clinton in 1996). It makes no difference if I write in a vote for Sanders or totally abstain; should Hillary win the nomination, my vote isn't going to make any difference to whether she wins in Georgia (which she won't).

[noamnety]

43. Not sure of your goal here.

Are you thinking this will convince the people who read the other 348 loyalty oath threads, but maybe the 349th will do it for them?

Or is it just venting?

[seekthetruth]

45. I've said this in a few other threads about Hill's progressive chops

...and they're aren't any. Someone who takes money from corp's, who obviously has something to hide since she keeps using the schoolhouse argument that she'll release transcripts when everyone else does, and most importantly, someone who supports fracking. How can we support her? See, in "our eyes" (meaning Bernie supporters), a vote for Hill is a vote for no change, and a vote for someone who doesn't have the priorities that most Dems have. Would you vote for a moderate Republican? Probably not. So how can you ask us to just settle for Hillary because she's somehow the one who will get things done? Well, what things? I keep hearing that a vote for her is a pragmatic one for action. But I don't trust Hillary! Don't you guys get that?

Please, defend fracking to us all. Please. If you're not able do that, then stop supporting Hillary because she supports a horrible practice that's poisoning our water and is delaying real change away from fossil fuels. In fact, she takes money from fossil fuel companies!!!!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. I have the arhaic notion that my vote belongs to me. Not a label.

Bernie may very well vote for Hillary if she's nominated. I won't.

However, rest your fears. I've been voting in federal elections since 1966. In not one of those elections has my vote decided the outcome. Nor do I embrace the delusion that it will decide the outcome of the 2016 election.

With that in mind, I will vote for the most progressive candidate on my ballot which comes with more than 2 choices of candidates.

[Hawaii Hiker]

49. I view it this way...Who do you want to appoint SCOTUS justices?

1. Hillary Clinton
2. Bernie Sanders
3. Donald Trump
4. Ted Cruz

I can totally live with #'s 1 or 2....3 or 4 should scare the hell out of anyone....

Whether you support Hillary or Bernie, isn't either 250,000 better than the GOP alternative when it comes to appointments on the high court?

[CrispyQ]

51. So disappointed in the democratic party who took a sharp turn to the right

& now wants people they don't represent to vote for them.

[PonyUp]

54. I'll vote for the most Progressive candidate on my ballot. Hillary ain't it. n/t

[Attorney in Texas]

59. Feel free to shame Democrats who won't support Hillary, but Sanders has lots of independent, Green

Party, and even populist Republican supporters.

Why would they vote for Hillary who polling shows they don't trust and they disagree with ideologically?

Hillary has ZERO support outside of a sub-set of older, less progressive Democrats, and she's not going to break out of that box. The evidence confirming this fact is overwhelming.

If you don't want to see the effect of this, you have two choices: (1) urge Hillary to change for the better (as I have) or (2) help us nominate a candidate who can add independents, Greens, and populist Republicans to our Democratic base.

[oberliner]

166. "Hillary has ZERO support outside of a sub-set of older, less progressive Democrats"

You honestly believe this?

[Attorney in Texas]

173. Yes, I honestly believe this and my belief is based on a TON of objective data. Do you disbelieve

this and - if so - what objective basis do you have for your belief than independents, young Democrats, and potential cross-over Republicans like Hillary?

[oberliner]

174. She has won 70-90 percent of the African-American vote so far

In every age group among that population in every state.

[Attorney in Texas]

175. Hillary does better in the Bible Belt (and not so well in the 37 other states), and that phenomenon

is not limited by race.

Four questions:

1. What data are you relying up to suggest that Clinton is winning between 70-90% of African Americans in the 18-30 age demographic outside of the Bible Belt (she's not)?

2. What percentage of the vote do you think we are talking about (I'm not sure that African Americans in the 18-30 age demographic outside of the Bible Belt is a very large part of the voting population in any of the contests after Tuesday)?

3. Why do you insist on making this is racial issue when it can be explained without reference to race by looking at the break between progressives/non-church-goers versus centrists/church-goers?

4. Why do you think that your comment about African Americans has anything to do with my suggestion that Hillary is failing among independents, Greens, and potential cross-over Republicans; don't we agree Hillary's African American supporters are largely Democrats?

[oberliner]

176. You wrote that she has zero support outside of older voters and less progressive Democrats

Surely you can admit that there are young people who support her and there are progressive Democrats who support her.

1. The 70-90 percent is the total AA vote percentage. Data indicates that she has won the vote in every age group, for the most part. I did not mean to suggest that she got 70-90 percent in the 18-30 demographic. Again, my only point is that the number of young and progressive Democrats who support her is higher than zero, as you claimed (I am assuming, now, hyperbolically?)

2. I have no idea. But it's higher than zero.

3. I am not making anything into a racial issue. I am just saying that she did very well among African-Americans, including many who are not part of an older subset of voters (which you claimed was her only base of support).

4. The comment I was responding to had nothing to do with independents, Greens, and Republicans. It had to do with your claim that Hillary's only support was coming from older voters and less progressive Democrats. That is the claim I am disputing. I would again remind you that you suggested the number of people who support Hillary who are not in one of those two categories was ZERO (your caps).

[quickesst]

61. I am a Hillary Clinton supporter...

... but will vote for Bernie Sanders and support him if he is the nominee. Logic and common sense dictates that I do so. I will not be one of those who say: " If x candidate is not the nominee I'm just going to give up". Too much at stake. Too many lives in the balance.

[Logical]

68. And I 100% agree with you. Big Picture mode!!! nt

[quickesst]

95. ....

For you For country For the planet

[Smarmie Doofus]

62. Oh, Fuck. Now I am supposed to accept that Ron and Nancy were HEROES in the eighties!

I. Don't. Think. So.

To support Clinton, is to support my friends being MURDERED in the 80's.

Yeah. She "apologized".

Who the *fuck* cares?

I *DEMAND*... not "want".... EXPECT and ***DEMAND***... a REAL Democrat in 2016.

A *leader*; who actually MEANS WHAT HE SAYS. Who takes risks. Who stands up for what's right and just; even when that's risky. ( I was going to say "dangerous" but it WAS NEVER "dangerous." )

Good god.

>>>WTF is wrong with you? >>>>>

Nothing. Nothing at all.

WTF is wrong with YOU?

[bigwillq]

63. My vote really won't matter.

I live in blue CT, where the DEM nominee will win with or without my vote.
If the DEM can't win CT, then the DEMs are in much more trouble than I thought.

I can't vote for Hillary. I'll either leave that spot blank or vote for someone else. If Hillary is the nominee, I hope she wins, but I just can't vote for her. It's a win-win.

I plan on voting DEM in the other races.

[charlespercydemocrat]

64. doesnt nhave too

Sander supporter do not have to support Clinton in the general it is their right to vote for whom they want to..

[djean111]

65. I's say YOU look like an idiot, expecting your OP to have any effect except an eye-roll, at best.

Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2016, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)

I have to admit the Hillary fans seldom if ever say they will not vote for Bernie. Maybe that makes them a hell of a lot smarter than the Bernie supporters.

Or they don't think for a second that it will come to that. More likely. Have not noticed anyone being "smarter".

Damn, there's a LOT of these scoldings today!

[Vilis Veritas]

66. As a Bernie supporter and a longtime democratic socialist

I too am slightly dismayed at the vitriol and hatred for Hillary expressed by some. We have to remain united regardless of the outcome. I may not like it if my guy does not win, but that does not mean I will vote third party and perhaps lose more by allowing a racist, fascist corporatist take control of this country.

I will not have to hold my nose as I know what has been started here and while we may not finish it this time, change will come, the people are ready. Bernie Sanders has proven that time and time again.

There are good people supporting our candidates. If we give in to the hate, our time may never come.

Peace

[grossproffit]

73. Brava! Brava!

United we stand, divided we fall.

[RelativelyJones]

67. In the end, people hate fingers in the face

No matter who you support, shaming and chastising never work.

[Logical]

81. Sometimes that is all that works. nt

[Maedhros]

74. I have nothing but disdain for pleas for Party unity when the DNC chair is pimping payday lenders

and the presumed front-running Presidential candidate is purposely driving a racial wedge between Party members to subvert the candidacy of an opponent who promotes traditional Democratic values.

The Party can go fuck itself if that's how it wants to conduct business.

[rock]

79. But you, Logical, appear to be willing to address the question I have asked before

of the BSers which is: why after all the things you have to say about Clinton, would you even consider voting for her if she is the Dem candidate? And are not ashamed of it.

PS. You are right about the Hillary fans.

[DrDan]

82. I am quite sure Bernie will offer full support should

She win the nomination

[Jackilope]

83. I reside in a red state that won't go Democratic anyway

My only vote that is going to count is the primary.

DNC has already decided to rig thing so Hillary gets her turn or at least gets a jump start on it. That has been transparent from the get go. Also transparent is HRCs judgement, mode of operation, hawkishness and corporatism.

She is not the strongest candidate and shame on the 1% that chose these offerings.

If a Democratic Party is Third Way what the Republicans were in the 80's -- and the Republican Party is the party of Trump or Cruz, we are all screwed anyway.

[Prism]

87. You'll live

Seriously. Not that dramatic.

[ucrdem]

88. A little late for that I think. nt

[Marr]

89. It does seem like burning your own neighborhood down in a riot.

A lot like that, actually. Both are expressions of anger by people who feel-- probably rightly-- that they are being marginalized and ignored by the system.

[Fairgo]

94. Here's the challenge

I vote for values. I weigh my decision based primarily on that, and in light of circumstance. What is the best way to promote my values? HRC, as I assay her words and deeds, does not seem to actually promote my values. She uses the words from time to time. On occasion she will stand obliquely for a similar cause, though her stand is tenuous and always seems rather staged. With the players in mind, I put the decision in context. The arc of decline in the US is palpable. It is not a democracy. It has the trappings of democracy to keep the masses complacent. Throw in a little bread and circuses, a little fear and loathing, and illusory hope & change and we stumble onward hoping for the best, down a road going back to the plantation. Sometimes the Wormtongue whispering, "No, we can't....be reasonable...better half a loaf...look squirrel!" is the problem. Sometimes, it is time to stand for something without compromise, saying enough is enough. When I cast my vote, I will think long and hard...and what I decide is none of your damn business. But sometimes, you have to decide between the Vichy and the Underground. We are fast approaching this crossroads. I am listening...

[IdahoGoBlue]

96. A vote for the Clintons is a vote.....

for the establishment. The crooks in the media who ignore Bernie Sanders, the crooks who buy politicians to legislate against us, the crooks who overthrow governments to put in place crony governments, the crooks who stash their profits overseas because they're unpatriotic, the big businesses that under pay their employees then call them welfare queens, wall street wrecking the world economy, tax dodgers, monsanto, class warfare, greedy healthcare system, greedy oil inudusty, military industrial complex. What else have I left out?
I won't vote for her and bow to all of this that I have mentioned and I so despise. Too bad that some people don't understand all of these reasons and say, "just take one for the team". No thanks, we're not on the same team. We've moved from democrats to independents because the democrats left us long ago. I want a system that benefits us all. I guess I'm a democratic socialist. I didn't know this before. I like learning about the countries that Bernie tells us about, that have it so much better. I think we can become so much more.
I don't want Hillary and I won't support the Clinton's for a third term. How messed up is it that she would be sworn in as President and he would be standing by her side as the first man. Are we stupid? Nooooooo! Why is HillBilly so wealthy by spending their lives in public service? Because they haven't been serving the public, it's all a facade. They serve their money masters and bullshit us all the way to the bank. It's obvious and I'm sick of it and sick of them and all that are like them.
I am not religious for the same reasons. Jesus sounded like a great guy. If you love him so much why aren't you walking in his footsteps? It's just another lie to us independent thinkers. I see how people are treated and believe that is truth, instead of the lies coming out of mouths. Say one thing, do another. GO BERNIE. I'll write him in if he doesn't win.

[Kittycat]

148. Thank you for a great post. Eom

[William769]

97. Skinner, you must be really proud of DU right now. nt

[jeff47]

101. At least he didn't have to make his site private. (nt)

[William769]

102. Me either.

[jeff47]

99. You are really, really terrible at voter outreach.

If your goal is to actually get people to vote for Clinton, you really need to stop your attempts to woo voters to her.

[Kittycat]

149. Understatement of the election season.

Vote Hillary or (horror music)

That's pretty message.

[William769]

104. For once Logical we agree.

I for one would vote for Senator Sanders if he were to be the nominee.

Throwing away a vote by cutting off your nose to spite your face is not acceptable given the alternative.

[DrFunkenstein]

105. I'd Vote For Clinton, But I'd Have To Pinch My Nose Really, Really Hard

There are many issues that are so close to my heart - matters of tremendous consequence - where I feel Clinton is deeply wrong or, at best, deeply suspect.

Being better than Trump and Cruz is a fairly low bar. Is she able to jump that bar? Yes, but so can most humans on the planet.

There's a long way to go before I'd take such a depressing step as to vote for someone who, for one example out of thousands, used the 9/11 attacks to justify her vote for (totally unrelated, never mind misguided) the invasion of Iraq. Someone who helped negotiate weapon sales to Saudi Arabia. Someone who refused to call Honduras a "coup" because it would cut off funds to the putsch government.

Someone who one touted the time "my dad took me out behind the cottage...and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl." And said "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." And called for "superpredators" to be "brought to heel."

Yes, that still beats Trump, but c'mon!

[RiverLover]

133. Its pick your poison time.

Unless Bernie wins.

[shawn703]

106. I'm sure I would end up voting for her if she is the nominee

I think come November I can pull the lever for her, since she will have had to make a number of concessions to Bernie on the Democratic platform to unite the party. But you're going to be the one funding her campaign with donations and manning phone banks and knocking on doors if you want her elected. I'm not getting off my ass of opening my wallet for a tool of the one percent. I'll let the suckers do it.

[NowSam]

108. People who ask WTF is wrong with a person

for voting or not voting in accordance with their rights will certainly make it easier for me to say adios to this forum. Today I was asked by a fear mongerer who wants to bully me into voting for Clinton if I knew how to read. The tone here is ugly and nasty. So WTF is the matter with me is that I don't like being bullied into voting any particular way.

I am disappointed in the bullies who masquerade as decent human beings.

[Logical]

110. Feel free to vote for trump or some 3rd party nobody. And I bid you farewell. nt

[PowerToThePeople]

141. Bully is 100% correct.

Athoritarian and antidemocratic.

[BeyondGeography]

109. Recommended

[Firebrand Gary]

115. This Hillary supporter will absolutely vote for Bernie if he wins!

And I will do with enthusiasm and excitement knowing that the future of our country is safe in the hands of a democrat in the Whitehouse.

[JCanete]

116. Hey Logical,

I signed back up to try to sum up why I'm on the fence about voting for Hillary if she's the nominee.

Yes, I'm in agreement with you, between Hillary and anybody in the GOP, she is the much saner, more qualified, least blatantly destructive force to have in the White House, and her Supreme Court nominee will be a better pick, if only when it comes to social issues.

But this cycle in politics has just been more confirmation of what I've always feared about our political system, and that's that it's basically rigged. Both parties work for the establishment, and the reason they continue to get away with it is by waging a culture war. And no, of course that's not just smoke and mirrors, because these wedge issues actually affect people's lives, but while we end up being the foot soldiers in this conflict, the money keeps getting syphoned upwards and the commons keeps getting sucked dry, and the biosphere and environment continue to be catastrophically altered.

Tangent(feel free to skip) And the beauty of it is that the more economically insecure we feel, the more effective wedge issues are at dividing us. Loss Avoidance is a powerful psychological phenomenon, and so is cognitive dissonance. That's why race baiting with welfare or immigration is so effective...people are afraid they are going to lose what they have, which makes sense because they are losing it, and then somebody comes along and tells them to "look over there" at "welfare queens" or undocumented immigrants, and they do, because they're stressed and maybe they are harboring some racism, and they're just looking for solvable answers ... and now they have a personal interest in not helping other people succeed, because having tax money go to welfare, or Mexicans coming in to make a better life for themselves is a direct threat to their well-being. This builds up resentment, and in turn, because hey, they aren't bad people, they have to internalize what's wrong with poor people, or black people, or Mexicans to justify their feelings. This of course, allows politicians on both sides of these issues to continue to divert attention away from what is killing us all and destroying our democratic system of government.

The DNC has really done a good job of letting me know where its loyalties lie this year, and so has Hillary,who really doesn't need to position herself as a centrist candidate in this election, at least not to stay viable to the voters, but then her campaign is mostly funded by huge backers, so maybe that explains it. She is THE establishment pick, and honestly, from the perspective of big money, it doesn't matter that the whole GOP dugout is full of crazy people who don't stand a chance in hell in a general election ... in fact it only serves to better position their candidate of choice as inevitable. That's the great thing about money behind the scenes; it wears no jerseys. Sure, the astro-turfing of the tea-party ultimately fucked the Republican Party for the time-being, but it served its purpose and there are perfectly willing collaborators on the other side of the aisle.

So to sum up, while I think somebody from the GOP would be much worse than Hillary in the short run, I also think their machinations would be far less masterfully concealed. I also see great long-term harm in continuing to reward the DNC for manipulating me into voting for the lesser-evil, and if I do ultimately refuse to cast my ballot for the seat of the Presidency, it will be because I refuse to be blackmailed this time.

[marions ghost]

119. ^^^^^^^^^^^K&R

You nailed it! This is how people are thinking, and I'm seeing it outside DU as well.

The DNC needs to understand this.

Well said!

[uppityperson]

121. Hi, I've a question for you. What do you mean, signed back up?

[JCanete]

123. had an account years back,

it probably still exists, I just don't remember what email I had back then or password--etc. Anyway, I only had a few posts on it. I've mostly been a lurker since Kerry's Presidential run, but have felt like posting recently.

[cyberswede]

125. Yay - the more the merrier.

[uppityperson]

135. Welcome back

It can be rather emotional here now with the primary stuff. There are many good groups on this version of DU.

[restorefreedom]

117. todays pledge thread brought to you by......nt

[pdsimdars]

120. So disappointed in Hillary supporters who keep supporting her lie after ugly lie.

Are they simply numb to it at this point? How does anyone rationalize that? Ugly, Rovian-type lies and smears, week after week. All proven to be outright lies or ugly distortions . . . .and yet, it's "go, Hillary, go." As if truth, honestly and integrity didn't mean anything for a president.
I don't get it.

[deutsey]

143. +1 I'm disappointed that Clinton and her supporters

are making it so damn difficult for me to vote for her.

I've always said I am committed to voting for her if she's the nominee because I think there's at least some potential for some progressive positions to advance with her as opposed to any Republican who wins.

But she and many of her supporters are really undermining that commitment lately.

[Waiting For Everyman]

124. A person isn't going to change their vote to post on DU.

That's silly right off the top. And don't threaten us. We've had enough.

The two Dem candidates are not similar and are not equal. They are opposites in character and agenda. One is SOLD OUT. SOLD. SOLD. SOLD. SOLD. LOCK, STOCK, AND BARREL. And we aren't among the buyers.

SOLD. Understand? Everyone in that same circle, politicians and media, is likewise SOLD, and under the system of "get your outlandishly big payoff and don't ever tell about this" or "get destroyed". That level of corruption is bad enogh, but it continues to corrupt new people all the time, especially any who would fix it for us.

You don't change that EVER by electing another one that is known in advance to be sold. How in the hell does that make the slightest sense?

(And in this case, we might be electing one of the actual creators of this system of corruption; certainly one of the very few key lynch pins holding it in place in this era.)

One of them is a neocon, with fans including Kagan, Cheney, and KISSINGER. Not long ago. TODAY. NOW. I didn't choose the friends, the candidate did.

If the Dem party KNOWINGLY chooses and ENABLES yet another SOLD OUT neocon, then nothing can fix that. It won't be a surprise that this country will get what it asks for and puts in office. Do we think we're going to elect a sold out neocon and somehow get a good president, or even a remotely tolerable president? How looney is that?

I'm not saying what anyone should do, I'm not saying what I will do, but these flypaper posts are over the top now.

When stating a true fact is grounds for banning or harassment via juries, I guess after 8 years I abandon this site to its echo chamber.

I can leave this board and be just fine. But I will NOT be told how to vote, especially by those who don't see a problem with the above. And yes, it goes without even saying the same thing is on the Repub side. All of them are a fail, only one candidate running is acceptable as a president. Any of the others will result in a lot of damage and it's pretty much the same including Scotus issues. If you think one of the fails will do better than the others I'd say that supposition is based on absolutely nothing.

We thought we were getting a good candidate with Obama, and the system corrupted him and he screwed us on almost everything (not talking about Congress here, just him). What do you think we'd get with a candidate we know is bad going into it.?

(I predict that once out of office, Obama will become super-wealthy so fast it'll make our heads spin. He has a big pay day coming, watch and see if I'm not right.)

A "D" in fron of the name is not going to help when the payoffs start getting collected on, and the paymasters are the same on both parties. Tell me you think the "D" will make a difference. And if you really believe that, you're in for a big surprise. But DON'T say you didn't know it going in, because you'll be getting what you literally asked for. My tiny violin will stay in its case.

Only one candidate in either party is standing up to the above, and we might not get another one for a really long time.

[Le Taz Hot]

126. So disappointed in blind party loyalists

who think that I "owe" my vote to anyone. Hillary is every bit as dangerous as Trump or Cruz. Every. Bit.

[retrowire]

154. Courtesy post.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sat Mar 12, 2016, 07:39 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

So disappointed in blind party loyalists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1478282

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is way over the line. Trump is a fascist. Cruz is a far right fanatic. Anyone who claims they are on equal footing with Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders does not belong on a Democratic Party-supporting web site.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Mar 12, 2016, 07:46 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I also believe Hillary is very dangerous, I would not go as far as to say she is as dangerous as Trump or Cruz but I am not going to hide anyone who says she is. The reality is that all three of them would make awful Presidents.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Opinions against candidates are just that. I don't see how this breaks TOS either. I'm not alerting every post that outright calls Bernie a socialist who will take everyones stuff from them.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Come on guys. A persons opinion, and we are not in the general yet.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Le Taz Hot]

161. Oy vey!

Somebody got a timeout.

Thanks retro.

[Nonhlanhla]

168. What a ridiculous thing to say. Nt

[TheFarseer]

127. How many loyalty check threads do we need?

I'm disappointed in anyone who supports HRC over a true progressive despite her numerous positions that seem right in line with the other party.

[Android3.14]

128. As a Bernie supporter, if Clinton wins the primary, I'll vote the ticket in the general

That being said, she disappoitned us, and if she loses it is her supporter's, the DLC's, and Hillary's fault.

"I'm not Republican" is a sucky platform.

[Skwmom]

129. Maybe she should stop lying about him and stop trying to smear him and his supporters. I

would guess that is why some voted the way they did in the poll.

[beachbumbob]

131. The heat of primary battle it's normal of those behind

To say such things...Hillary supporters in 2008 were same about Obama....so best to ignore tantrums at this stage....once Hillary is the clear choice, Bernie will support her and will ask his people too...it's the way it's done

[Kalidurga]

132. You seem to think Bernie is our leader.

You are sadly mistaken. Bernie is our ally. http://www.dictionary.com/

[RiverLover]

136. +1 Its about the issues.

Electing a somewhat lesser evil DINO, once again, isn't something many of us can fall in line for no matter who says we should.

Doing the same thing over & over & expecting a different result....it really is crazy.

[Kalidurga]

137. Yes we are Liberals first. Democrats because well they aren't Republicans.

[Kittycat]

150. Agreed! #HesWithUs not #ImWithHer

[ghostsinthemachine]

134. It is getting harder and harder

To say "if she wins the nomination i will gladly vote for Sec Clinton"
That was two weeks ago. The the Honduran and other foreign policy failures came to light. Then Kissenger. Then it was "if she wins I'll vote for her".
Now, after yesterday's fiasco (I knew the Reagan's AIDS history and I'm just a guy with a computer) it has become " I'll hold my nose,hate my choice" just to see someone worse doesn't get in.
What happens next week?

[merrily]

138. I am so disappointed in you, that you keep posting threads like this and misappropriating Bernie's

name in an attempt to legitimize them. As if Bernie would ever echo McCarthyism.

I mean, God forbid anyone wait until the primary is over before getting into this divisive stuff. Instead, we have had to endure post after post and OP after OP for about two flocking years now.

To quote Le Taz Hot, "Can I fucking vote first?" http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=135386

[democrattotheend]

139. I am a Bernie supporter, and I basically agree

I had nightmares last night about being chased by Nazis, a nightmare that was undoubtedly inspired by how scary it is the way Trump is gaining traction. I don't see how anyone who calls themselves a progressive can consider not doing everything they can to stop him from becoming president. Ditto for Cruz, whom I believe meets the legal definition of a terrorist for holding the debt ceiling hostage to attempt to extract ransom from the president.

[Warren DeMontague]

144. I think the time for loyalty pledges is after we actually have a nominee.

But yes, if that nominee is HRC people should support her.

[Warren DeMontague]

145. I'd add that some of the onus needs to be on the candidate and their supporters to convince voters

And unfortunately the Clinton camp and its surrogates seem to think the way to convince people, like millennials, is to insult them' threaten them with hellfire (derp) and condescend to them.

clinton is going to need to compete out west in several states that have legalized marijuana or are likely to, yet she still supports keeping federal laws which allow prosecution of recreational and medical users despite state law. She allies herself with Debbie Wasserman Schultz who wants LONGER prison sentences for pot smokers.

Yes support the nominee but the nominee should represent the party and its beliefs.

[great white snark]

146. Well said Logical.

[Dem2]

147. Fascinating

One senses this in the responses posted here, but seeing it laid out there in black-and-white is eye-opening.

Many Bernie supporters will change their stance if he doesn't get the nomination, but the difference in "all or nothing" versus "let the people decide" is noteworthy.

[cantbeserious]

152. This Citizen Voted For A Clinton Twice - Never Again

eom

[FreedomRain]

155. The legitimate winner of the D convention will get my vote

If one gets the nom by supers overriding, or proven votestealing, then no. Both of these seem to be real possibilities, if highly unlikely. I am not worried about them, but to overlook the possibility does a disservice to the accuracy of these kind of attempts at knowledge.

If Sanders loses (also unlikely imho ), his endorsement will be key to many as a clue who best to vote for.

[Joe the Revelator]

157. You use your vote how you want, and I'll do the same with mine...

I don't vote for serial liars, demigogs, war mongers, corrupt, scandal ridden candidates. No matter what letter comes after their name.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

159. Considering how often the racism and sexism card is being played you should be thanking them.

Unless you want people who are being made out to be racist and sexist voting for your candidate.

[Howler]

162. First off

I understand completely what I am voting for. I am a 56 year old who has always voted democrats my whole voting life . I do not need any lectures from you on who to vote for in any election!
Secondly you looking forward to folks getting banned because they have disappointed you says alot about YOU. not them.
And you jumping on thre bandwagon of smearing other Bernie supporters as looking like idiots because they see things differently then you is ... well.... bullshit .
I am no a troll and AGAIN I understand the political arena just fine thankyou.
Futher more while Bernie has my vote he does not tell me who to vote for.
And as far as I am concerned a poster who is defaming and belittling other bernie supporters is the one who is not very smart .

[Uglystick]

163. My vote, my choice.

Thank you. I don't do loyalty pledge.

[840high]

182. I don't either.

[hack89]

171. Many have enough privilege to do well in a Trump presidency

they can afford to vote their "conscience " .

[ThePhilosopher04]

172. Maybe your disappointment is misplaced

There's a reason why I, along with many others, will not support Hillary Clinton. It has to do with her, not us. We will, however, support Bernie no matter what. He's with US.

[DesertRat]

177. If you notice on the poll that you linked to

Not ONE of the Hillary supporters who voted said that they wouldn't vote for Sanders in November. The overwhelming majority of us want the DEMOCRAT to win in November.

[deathrind]

178. It really is a myopic

View...

I prefer Sanders but I will vote for either Sanders or Clinton in the GE. Not voting is simply not an option given the pure "Idiocracy" like condition of the republicans.

[RazBerryBeret]

179. THIS is a great way

to get support for your candidate......

[21st Century Poet]

180. Let's be democratic.

Talk about getting people banned for holding a political belief is not very democratic. You should find better ways of expressing your frustration because this is not a good advertisement for your cause.

While one understands your frustration, one also has to keep in mind that Independents, Greens and Republicans who have moved to the Democratic Party specifically to support Mr Sanders might not be so loyal to the Democratic Party if Mrs Clinton wins the nomination. This is hardly a surprising or shocking fact. Specific candidates have their own fan-base. Some are ready to vote for whomever the Democratic Party nominates. Some will sit it out and some will switch parties. This is inevitable and happens at every election.

What you should be doing if you want Mr Sanders's voters to switch to Mrs Clinton in the eventuality of her nomination is explain to them how her policies converge with his.

[drray23]

183. I should remind you that this is a privately owned website

We are using it because we agree to adhere to the Terms of Service. These terms explicitly state that after a nominee is determined (which is not the case yet), one has to advocate for them or at least not advocate for another candidate or party. If you do so, you will be banned by the administrators.

If you look at Hillary and Bernie's policies, they are very similar. Where they differ is how to implement them and how fast. In any case, it is lighyears away from Trump or Cruz. Bernie has already had a positive influence on the direction the democratic party is taking and that is a good thing. Whether or not he wins the nomination, his influence will definitely help shape the future.

[21st Century Poet]

184. I'm just trying to help.

I'm not challenging the terms of service. I am simply advising the poster of this thread on how better to appeal to Mr Sanders's supporters who switched specifically because of him. If they stop caring about the Democratic Party, threatening to ban them will have little effect on them (and it's not like one can ever find out how people really intend to vote, anyway). Talking about policy convergence is the better and more appealing way to go. Your second paragraph is a good start.