Hillary playing tricks in Polk County!

[CoffeeCat]

I'm here at our Dem Polk County Convention. Hillary initially won Polk County the night of the caucus.

The preliminary numbers are as follows. Hillary 530; Bernie 600. Polk county has unofficially flipped to Bernie.

Hill camp does not like the numbers. They are completely freaking out. The Hill camp changed the rules and ordered all Bernie supporters leave the room, and again and be counted one by one. It's taking a long time. All 600 of us had to leave, wait in a hot atrium and file in individually and be checked off.

Bernie dem leaders told us that she's trying to wear is down. They're hoping we will leave. Many Bernie supporters with disabilities and many senior citizens toughing it out.

No way in hell are we leaving!!!!!!!!!

[bkkyosemite]

1. This is bullshit..call the cops

Why isn't there a problem with them still in there and Bernie supporters leaving the room...who is in there?

[Kelvin Mace]

102. The cops have no juridiction

Caucuses are party events, governed by party rules.

[PatrickforO]

207. No, no, you've got a quorum present. Call for elections for new party leadership right there and

then. Leadership that will correctly count the votes.

[Betty Karlson]

263. That's right: fight them with a quorum!

[Aquavit]

239. Forget the cops, call the local TV stations! nt

[HooptieWagon]

2. Demand the Hillary delegates do the same.

And call lawyers.

[questionseverything]

3. stay strong

[Nanjeanne]

4. Insanity.

[CoffeeCat]

5. Bottom line--Hillary people defected

Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2016, 10:49 PM - Edit history (1)

To Bernie or they didn't show.

Many Hillary supporters came in and indicated they were switching. Some of them took the mic and spoke.

This is happening in Hartison County also. She's lost delegates since the caucus, and the HRC camp is contesting. Trying to wear them down, stall and challenge the numbers.

[JimDandy]

35. Likely some of Clinton's delegates/alternates elected in the caucuses didn't show.

We have to impress on Bernie elected delegates and alternates that in order to make his caucus votes count, they must show up at the each of the following conventions for Bernie to have the chance to be the nominee.

I'm not thrilled with delegates switching hard pledged votes. It negates the caucus voters voices--I wouldn't want that to happen to Bernie. I really hope the switch is because not enough of her delegates initially showed. When did Hillary's delegates start to switch--at what count--first, second...?

[watoos]

104. There is also something I was thinking

It was a mess in Nevada, people weren't even registered, just a far out idea; maybe some of Hillary's people weren't really eligible.

[JimDandy]

110. I'll wait for coffeecat to weigh in on the exact details. n/t

[Matariki]

148. I don't think pledged delegates are supposed to 'defect'

Were O'Malley's delegates awarded to Sanders?

[IllinoisLabour]

6. Why did you guys let them change the rules?

If they try to mess with you, YOU change the rules. Make THEM jump through hoops.

After all, apparently, you guys are the majority.

[CoffeeCat]

9. No, our leaders told us that if we

Did not comply, the Clinton camp said they would challenge the results in Court.

We have to do what they say.

We were also warned that they can force us to count again, maybe even more times.

Hoping that doesn't happen.

We are all staying strong!!!!!!!!!

No one is leaving!!!!!!!

[dana_b]

16. But why don't THEY have to

be counted multiple times and jump through hoops?

[Duval]

85. Good. Shows courage and commitment to our Democratic ideals.

This makes me furious. Why does the Cllinton camp have so much freaking power? I'm sorry I cannot be with you, but I surely stand with you and the others.

[AzDar]

7. Clintonian. Stay strong!

[CoffeeCat]

8. If I disappear, it's bc my phone has only

One percent.

I have video of all of this!

[Uglystick]

13. I'll send a power block your way

if I knew if there was a get this thing and bring-it-over to you delivery service in your area and what phone you have.

[PatrynXX]

156. had a feeling since IA was a virtual tie

this might happen

[Renew Deal]

246. Me too

It was inevitable.

[NWCorona]

19. Post the videos when able

[hootinholler]

27. Looking forward to hearing the results. n//t

[pinebox]

185. Send me that damn video!

I have media connections on twitter

[revbones]

10. Easier to count people twice if your opposition isn't in the room... nt

[CoffeeCat]

15. The Bernie people are in one room

The Clinton people are in the cafeteria.

Bernie people in an auditorium.

[revbones]

18. That was my point

Easier to count extra Hillary supporters that happen to be ghosts, if there are no Bernie supporters in the room to make sure they actually exist.

[CoffeeCat]

20. I just asked.

Apparently, due to all of this---we have people watching her counts. She has people watching our counts.

Good to know.

[revbones]

22. Whew

Glad to hear that.

[cui bono]

24. Why do they get the food and beverages???

Seriously, this is messed up. I really loathe her and her campaign tactics. She needs to lose and go away.

.

[bonniebgood]

268. "she needs to lose and go away" I concur. I'm leaning on the idea of voting for Trump

in order to make that happen. I'm over 60yo and have never voted for a clinton. Can anyone really say or admit
that Clinton or Trump would place a left leaning supreme court justice on the Bench? or Obama for that matter?
Yes I will vote for trump to see the Clintons go into the dust bins of history like the bushes. And feel good about it. At least i would be voting FOR someone.

[Dustlawyer]

269. Obama's picks have been somewhat socially liberal, and fiscally conservative.

They are more corporate than anything. We need real liberals like RBG, who recognize the danger of increasing corporate control and power!

[bettyellen]

285. Clinton gave us RGB. But ya know- they are worse than Trump, right?

[Lizzie Poppet]

11. Don't let them get away with shenanigans!

Don't actually believe in the supernatural, but "sending you strength," anyway!

[dana_b]

12. I'm reading about this now. Here is some video:

https://twitter.com/AMAEBRYAN/status/708754409556054016

NO one is leaving. Sorry Hillary!! (or not!)

[PonyUp]

14. Clinton's entire campaign is nothing but lies and deceit!

Stand your ground!

[Enthusiast]

124. Sure looks like it.

[UglyGreed]

17. Thank you for all you do

CoffeeCat hang in there never give up, never give in!!!!! BTW I wonder when the first comment calling this another lie from the Sanders camp will come forward.........

[marions ghost]

21. is this Polk County Florida or where?

[questionseverything]

23. iowa

[marions ghost]

40. OK

so that is still going on? Counts are disputed? hang in there Iowa for Bernie

[questionseverything]

44. as i understand it

hc supposedly won the count in the polk county caucus but delegates rewarded from that have changed to bernie/or just not shown up for the next level

coffeecat is reporting to us live from that next level

[marions ghost]

49. Go Polk County!

thanks for explanation. Got a vague idea now... Iowa system is so unique.

with ya fingers crossed

[JimDandy]

52. IA is not unique. We are stuck with the same system in WA,

as are Dems in UT, NV and many other states.

[marions ghost]

57. Not up on how many states have the caucus system--

but looking it up I see it's a few--mostly in the west.

Thanks. I take it you're not a fan of it.

[JimDandy]

64. Not a fan. Want it gone. Running for a Bernie delegate position in the meantime. n/t

[marions ghost]

65. Good luck

[snowy owl]

286. Did you questiong Nevada caucuses?

I did. Reid got union bosses to get out union members. Okay except that Reid is pro-Hillary. Can union bosses apply leverage to get workers to caucus for Hillary even if they don't really want to? Any intimidation factor considering the high number of union workers and the influence of party bosses? I'm wondering...

[questionseverything]

55. not a mention of this on the msm

good things can still happen

[marions ghost]

62. Yeah they don't want to report that

...unless they absolutely have to....

Something about Rmoney/ Santorum ...sounds like this, but in this case it's not too late

[ChiciB1]

90. Yeah, Caught My Attention Too! Polk County Is In Florida Too!

Was wondering what the hell was going on. We don't caucus here, but it's CLOSED Primary and I really DON'T like this either. Winner take all and only Dems & Repukes can vote!

How is this fair??

[marions ghost]

114. And there's a Polk County NC also

The caucus systems are confusing to those of us who've never experienced them.

The closed primary is what I'm familiar with. Yeah I'm not a big fan either, tho I see why they do it to keep the other party from influence. But they more or less force you to be labelled, which helps with knowing where their support is for various purposes. I'd prefer open primaries so that independents can vote in them.

[dlwickham]

149. how is it fair that party members are the ones who chose their party's nominees?

really?

[Ken Burch]

165. Everyone in that room is a party member. n/t.

[HooptieWagon]

209. Fla is winner take all only for GOP.

It's proportional allotment of delegates for Dems.

[elljay]

251. The GOP "learned a lesson"

From the last election when they had candidates who just wouldn't leave the race and didn't need to because they had billionaire sugar daddies. They decided that having winner-takes-all primaries starting mid-March would solve that problem. Unintended consequences (aka Drumpf) have, in retrospect, made that a bad idea. In the immortal word of Rick Perry, "Oops!"

[ChiciB1]

264. How In The Hell Did I Get That Messed Up???

I've been working with this getting Bernie elected. Man, makes me feel better but I HAVE NO IDEA how I screwed THIS fact up. WOW, really feel soooooo stupid, it's not like I haven't been involved.

Maybe because they're talking about GOP so much, but this isn't my first rodeo either, not by a long shot!

Think I'll go hide under my bed today, THANKS for correcting me. Bernie seems to have "caught on" here, but polls have him at LEAST 20 points if not more. I try not to check the polls... just some people telling me. He's had huge crowds. In Tampa he had almost 10,000 and Hillary's rally had 600! Have 2 grand kids who're voting Bernie and my grand daughter just sent me a pic of a friend of hers wearing a Bernie Hat 2016! Kids are excited! My whole family here has already voted absentee, 13 of us in this county. But we always vote. They know people who have voted for him too.

Time is near... my stomach is in knots!

[litlbilly]

141. seems to me polk county alone would offically flilp iowa to Bernie and I dont

think Hillary camp could handle that right about now.

[marions ghost]

206. that's the feeling I'm getting about it

which is why this big holdup is going on...big anxiety

[bkkyosemite]

25. coffecat can you use someone's plug and plug it in there?

[cui bono]

26. So I don't understand, does the convention make the results official?

Why do the people need to be at the caucus and the convention? Is this a recount or something?

.

[Bad Thoughts]

28. Real people need to show up at county and state conventions

That means final totals to the Democratic National Convention from one state can change.

[cui bono]

31. Then what are the caucuses for?

They really make people show up twice?

Is the delegate distribution going to change because of the convention?

.

[Bad Thoughts]

38. To select delegates to county conventions

Yes, the numbers get narrowed down until there are state delegates to the national convention. The thousands of delegates chosen a few weeks ago become hundreds who attend the state convention, who become the dozens who represent the state. It is an exercise in active democracy that is usually quite foreign nowadays.

[rhett o rick]

33. In Washington the State we have precinct caucuses. Those delegates go to the Legislative Dist

meeting or caucus from the different precincts, to divide up the LD's delegates based on precinct numbers. Then on to Congressional Dist meeting/convention or caucus (not sure what it's called) and do it again and then on to the State Convention. I think I have that correct. My point is there are multiple caucuses/conventions.

[cui bono]

36. That makes no sense to me! All I have to do is vote once, takes me no more than 30 minutes.

.

[Bad Thoughts]

39. The delegates do more than vote: they work on the state party's platform. eom.

[OnlinePoker]

145. But are they allowed to switch allegiences after the initial caucus?

If so, that makes a mockery of the whole electoral process.

[rhett o rick]

43. Let me be clear citizens only vote once for delegates at the precinct caucuses and then they aredone

Those delegates move on to the next level and based on the numbers of delegates chosen for each candidate, the numbers of delegates are allotted for the next level and so on until the State Convention.

And if that isn't confusing enough, we also have a Primary vote. The Republicons use the Primary Vote to determine their State delegates while the Democrats ignore the Primary Vote and use the caucus results.

[cui bono]

51. Oh! Okay, so if you sign up to be a delegate you know you're in for the long haul.

So that's why now people are possibly switching to Bernie in Iowa? Or Hillary delegates don't care enough to show up? So is it possible that Bernie will get more delegates than the caucus attributed to him?

.

[JimDandy]

63. Yes, By state convention time, Bernie can end up with more delegates than earned at the caucuses

if Hillary delegates don't show up. Those delegates elected at the caucuses are only elected for the next convention level. They have to run again at each convention level to make it as a delegate to the next convention level.

[cui bono]

72. Thanks. We really need to get rid of this ridiculous caucus system.

Elections do not need to be so difficult and so ripe for manipulation.

.

[JimDandy]

87. I agree!

[Enthusiast]

129. +1 a huge bunch!

[ConsiderThis_2016]

121. So if it's attendance that matters...

could an absentee ballot strategy, to win a caucus, prove to be a red herring?

[JimDandy]

159. The ballots have to be mailed/faxed in and received by the State Dem Chair, Jaxon Ravens,

by next Friday, the 18th. So at the state level, they will know a week ahead of the caucuses, what the count from those ballots are for both Clinton and Sanders. I don't know if they disclose those counts to the two camps. I know our local Sanders campaign is having us volunteers tell the absentee caucus voter to fill out the surrogate ballot while we are standing at their door and then having us turn it in to the local campaign office. The field office will then fax it on or before the 18th to the state chair. That way, the Sanders campaign will have a rough estimate of the "absentee" Sanders preference. The voters are free to send it in themselves, though. I had one such voter who insisted on doing that. She agreed to let me call her before the end of next week though, to remind her to fax it in.

Those surrogate ballots are then delivered to each precinct caucus table by vote time on Mar 26th, the surrogate's name is placed on the precinct sign in sheet, and their candidate preference is counted just as if they were there in person.

Of course, both camps are pushing those surrogate ballots. On top of that volunteers go door to door to have the supporters fill out "commit to caucus" cards to also get a rough estimate beforehand of a base level of how many supporters actually will be at the caucuses. So by caucus day, on the 26th of Mar, the campaigns will already have a baseline of minimum estimated votes. Other than that, it's all a crap shoot, just like it is every election, as to which camp will get out the votes. Last minute GOTV is done by volunteers relaying to their field offices the count of supporters as they arrive in line, and then having other volunteers calling to rouse awake supporters who haven't shown up by caucus-door-opening time, and maybe even ferry them to the caucuses.

So, in a round about way, yes it is a little harder now for an outside observer of the lines on caucus day to tell the level of support for each candidate just based on the amount of people in line for each of them. But, as a percent, those surrogate ballots will be a small percent of the total vote.

Did I answer your question?

[rhett o rick]

186. In Wash the State one can vote via the caucus via "Surrogate Affidavit Form" if they

can't attend the caucus because of 1. A religious observation 2. military obligation 3. work schedule or 4. Illness or disability.

[Generic Other]

253. I just received one in the mail from William J. Clinton

prompting my husband to ask accusingly why he was writing to me. Makes me wonder how he got my address.

[rhett o rick]

267. I also got one from Bad Boy Bill. nm

[rhett o rick]

66. The first answer is no. The delegates that the caucuses chose will be reduced significantly at the

next level. Based on the precinct delegate numbers (I think they vote) the LD will allot their delegates for the next level. They will be reelecting delegates at each level. While the average citizen may get to be a precinct delegate, the competition gets tougher at each level with the Party hotshots getting a lot of the State delegate positions.

I don't know the answer to the delegate count switching. I will try to go as far as I can. I have training for running a caucus coming up this Wed. Our caucuses are on the 26th.

[cui bono]

73. Thanks. And good luck! n/t

[JimDandy]

46. So many Dems in WA want a Primary election instead of the archaic caucuses.

Until then, we have to make sure Bernie's caucus delegates arrive enforce, at each convention level, and carry the votes of each of his supporters forward all the way to the National Convention. At any step of the way, if one of his delegates or their alternate doesn't show up, Bernie will lose that delegate vote.

[fierywoman]

68. I definitely do. I'm sick of losing work in order to caucus.

[JimDandy]

105. If you're in WA, this year we have a surrogate ballot (absentee ballot, essentially)

Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2016, 08:08 PM - Edit history (1)

you can use to vote with, if you can't make it to your caucus because you have to work, attend a religious meeting, are disabled or are sick. Don't know if other states are doing that. If you're in WA, call your local Bernie field office to have one mailed out or hand-delivered to you.

ETA: You can also get one online.

[litlbilly]

146. I love the primary in Oregon, they mail us the ballot, we mail it in...done:)

[litlbilly]

147. this is the first year to do this, we switched from I to D for Bernie:)

[JimDandy]

171. Welcome. Hope you stay and help us change the party so it is more conducive to progressive

ideals. I'm going to give it a last go now that Bernie has energized and mobilized enough of a base to make this possible. Got to significantly reduce the current heavy influence of the 3rd way, DNC, corporatist and lite Repub members in order to do that.

[litlbilly]

175. It's gonna be a tough slog, but I think we are up to it:)

[JimDandy]

162. Okay, okay I am sufficiently jealous. Sigh.

Caucusing is a lot of hard work.

[litlbilly]

170. :) I would caucus here if thats what we would have to do:)

[fierywoman]

252. Yup --

Yeah, it is. The only other one I went to was for Obama in 08 (lost $180 ... best $180 I ever spent!) I was fascinated: primordial democracy, such passion, had never seen or felt that in the political process here; never felt so strongly that little me truly mattered.

[fierywoman]

249. mwah!

A big "mwah" to you for this info!

[ellennelle]

70. in MN too

their legislators took it up for discussion this week, both parties.

i truly despise the process, esp. as it was spawned by our founding fathers literally as the back room decision making on who the candidates would be.

it all needs to be by pure vote, no coin tosses, no back and forth. just each person casts a vote, and that's that.

the advantage to the caucus is the community discussion aspect of it, which has its percs. but that can still occur in an informal way prior to the primary voting.

this business in IA now, tho, is bizarre.

GO COFFEECAT!!

[PWPippin]

177. Same here in Maine.

Many of our caucuses, including mine in the mid coast, ended up basically being primaries rather than caucuses due to the record turnout. Reverting officially to primaries is a hot topic at all levels.

[rhett o rick]

190. One advantage to have a caucus system is that it gets people out of their homes, meeting their

neighbors and letting the Democratic Party know who the Democrats are in person. We keep a database that we use to GOTV. But it is too much trouble for some.

[JimDandy]

211. That same outcome also can be effected by a GOTV drive. Sadly, the WA Dem Party neglected

to do it this primary season. They didn't even get a Coordinated Campaign worker in our area until a few days ago. She is only signing up volunteers and won't be doing GOTV until after the caucus. Doesn't make me want to go "hhmmm", because it's pretty well rumored that this has been in an effort to deny Sanders votes, since a larger turnout consistently favors him. In years past we already would have done massive campaign drives on all the college campuses (EWU, WSU, UW etc) by now, because students, or course, normally favor the Dem Party. Nada, zip, zilch this season.

And who came up with the idea to make caucus goers drive miles this year to caucus in large buildings (schools, colleges) by cramming all the precincts in one legislative district into it and making voters stand in long, long, long lines to do so (think Iowa and Nevada chaos)? In years past, caucusing was always done in neighborhood buildings. Why the sudden change? Could it, again, be to try and deny Sanders a large turnout, because his constituents are students and lower income people who may not have a car. They used to just walk, sometimes with their children in tow, to their neighborhood caucus to vote in the primary.

I worked with the VoteBuilder database some years back when it was in beta version in WA. Wasn't a lot of trouble then. Should be even better now.

The WA Republican Party in WA seems to be happy using the Primary Election as their vehicle for selecting delegates. WA Dem Party needs to be doing that also. We can't just cede to their party the independent voters who won't participate in the caucus system because they, like most people, want an easier way to vote. We can build the party without the caucus system using a great GOTV as outreach and having active offices where people can congregate and work together between conventions.

[rhett o rick]

212. I see some good in both sides. The Primary vote is easy and that encourages people to participate.

But in 2008 we had yuuuuge turn outs for the caucuses and we got lots of name of Democrats that we can call on to help.

[JimDandy]

219. We can continue to get people to participate in the process without the Caucus system.

The Dem Party in Primary states does just fine as far as participation goes. I'm going to work to get rid of the caucus system.

[dana_b]

29. K&R

[DebDoo]

30. Order pizza and demand chairs for the elderly!

Seriously, order pizza and have a party

[think]

32. Thank you for the update! /nt

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

34. Original results were 53 Hillary-46 Bernie

600 B - 530 H would be almost exactly flipped - 53 B 47 H. That's quite a swing!

ETA: Original vote was 12,122 Hillary, 10,526 Bernie. This is the largest county in Iowa by a large margin.

[marions ghost]

41. This would flip it?

Holy cow--I guess everybody is in a tizz!

[Metric System]

50. Caucuses are ridiculous.

[ellennelle]

71. could not agree more!!

[PatrynXX]

166. BS

Purist American system of politics from the beginning left alive. It gets people out to root for actual candidates should be required at every state

Now Super Delegates should be banned

[mythology]

266. Yes, I agree, although I don't think that's a good thing

Just like the original American political system, it excludes far too many people. Those who work evenings or can't drive at night, or are sick, or have other responsibilities. Originally women, minorities and those who didn't own property were excluded.

Caucuses should be relegated to the dust bin of history.

This notion of having Russian nesting dolls to vote for delegates, who vote for delegates who vote for delegates, is really silly.

[Renew Deal]

247. This is not the result of the caucus

Many states have a system where you have to go to local, regional, and then state conventions before delegates are picked.

[Pacifist Patriot]

283. Do not like them one bit!

[mhatrw]

59. Maybe they got the original count wrong? nt

[Kalidurga]

133. Could be from what I read.

Or they got it right and people really are switching for real. I think people are switching for real. Either way this is good news and I have no idea if people are really switching or not.

[TheFarS1de]

37. How low can they go ...

Stay strong .

[MFM008]

42. STOP. THINK. VOTE.

Look I loathe Sanders. I think hes to damn old period. BUT I will take whatever PILLS I have to to mark my ballot for him before I will let this country become a Trump rally. You had better get over your damn butt hurt if shes the nominee. Better think long and hard about your dumb ass logic that would allow a PRESIDENT TRUMP. (or Cruz) It will be an asteroid strike on this planet and if I can do it you had better do it as well. We have to stand together, candidates come and go, Trumps influence will be forever.
SO STOP. THINK. VOTE.

[Scootaloo]

54. You loathe Sanders because of his age?

[dorkzilla]

69. Seriously

Smh...

[Else You Are Mad]

74. Imagine if...

Someone said they loathe Clinton because she is a woman?!? Also, Hillary is 69 years old... only 5 years younger than Sanders.

I wish people would just stick to the merits of a candidate not age, sex etc.

[Land of Enchantment]

151. Bravo and

well said! Welcome to the group!

[Khellendross]

75. Eh...

Sanders is only Five years older than Hillary o.O

[mac56]

76. "I loathe Sanders. I think hes to damn old period."

Really?

Ageist much?

[cyberswede]

78. "We have to stand together" - and you call her "butt hurt" with "dumb ass logic"

Charming.

[ellennelle]

79. whoa, nelly

first of all, what's with the rage here? pretty much out of place? the discussion here was the polk cty delegate convention in IA, NOT whether of not anyone will pledge to vote the dem, no matter what. regardless tho, even if that were the topic, please and kindly take your rage elsewhere?

second, you loathe sanders because he's six years older than hillary? that makes her a spring chicken??

third, no matter what your positions are on anything, do you honestly expect to persuade anyone to your way of thinking with this fury?

and finally, on a more personal note, it sounds like your blood pressure might be an issue, at the very least; i beg you to take care of that, just for general health. seriously; you could blow a gasket with your 'loathing' alone.

peace.

[PonyUp]

131. How shallow of you. Anything you wrote after your second line means nothing. nt

[Enthusiast]

132. Bernie's other qualities far override any concerns about his age.

[eomer]

144. STOP. THINK. POST.

Just sayin'.

[Silver_Witch]

244. Yet another Clinton Supporter WINNING over us Bernie Supports

You guys are so kind and gentle and are never rude - why wouldn't we support Hillary. "dame butt hurt" sounds like what you are feeling. We look pretty happy at this moment - go over the to the Hillary Board they will love you.

[Gene Debs]

260. He's so old you'll have to take pills to mark your ballot for him? Did you have any

particular pills in mind? May I suggest Ex-Lax?

"Too damn old"? "Better think long and hard about your dumb ass logic"? "That was nice. "You had better do it as well"?

Your attitude sucks. You sound like somebody's not-particularly-likable drunk uncle. You should probably log off and come back in the morning after you've sobered up.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

45. This might explain part of this.

Funny vote counting the night of the caucus. I knew stuff had happened, but this is the first time I had seen this video.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4578575/clinton-voter-fraud-polk-county-iowa-caucus

[winter is coming]

168. I'd forgotten that. Good post!

I guess Camp Weathervane thought the firewall would have taken care of Bernie's candidacy by now. Instead, we may get news of Iowa flipping right before the next round of primaries. This is not a good weekend to be a Clinton campaign staffer.

[Ferd Berfel]

47. Get tough - Get mad

And I'm supposed to ignore this shit and support her?

A Y F K M?

It's not going to happen children.

[Owl]

48. Stay strong.

[CoffeeCat]

53. We're still here.

Just sitting around, waiting to hear. We gave Hill camp our new counts. We've been here since 7:00 a.m.

People are really wearing down. People have to leave to go to work. Take care of kids. We're tired.

We're just sitting in auditorium.

I just heard that the Bernie recount was off by 2. So that is pretty good. No major shifts. but that's unofficial. We shall see.

[Helen Borg]

56. Can somebody from the Bernie legal team to down there?

[CoffeeCat]

61. I will contact my Bernie contact-- nt

[UglyGreed]

58. Unbelievable

hang in there!

[progressoid]

77. Thanks for the update!!

[MuseRider]

60. Hang in there!

Sending support vibes from Kansas where we Kucinich delegates ended up kicked out at the second part of selection. Do not leave, you know that but don't let anyone leave. Wish I was close to send support, or drinks and snacks ( every stand off should have snacks 😊 .

[Jopin Klobe]

67. Change the rules???

... Isn't that a REPUBLICAN protocol when they're losing?

[UglyGreed]

81. isn't there a saying that goes

you becoming what you hate????

[me b zola]

80. K&R

[CoffeeCat]

82. Ok recount--

Initially, it was
Sanders 532
Clinton. 519

Now it's
Sanders 513
Hillary 529

Have no idea how her count rose when she lost people who came to Bernie camp. No idea how our numbers decreased.

We have an issue, because many Sandrs supporters showed up to find that they were listed as Clinton delegates. They were never counted in the Iowa caucus as Bernie delegates. They were counted as Clinton delegates. So they're trying to straighten that out. There is no paperwork for these Bernie delegates. Earlier many Bernie delegates were told there was no paperwork and to just go home. Some did. Many did not.

The Hillary people have told Bernie people in the hallways, that they can go ahead and leave. It's so rampant that our Bernie leader just told us to not listen to them and to not leave. They're announcing this in the mic every ten minutes. Reminding people not to leave, no matter what the Hill people are saying to Bernie people in the hallways--even in the bathroom!!

This is growing into a fuzzy cluster. I'm just one of 500 people in this room. I'm not in on the negotiations. So it's hard to tell what is going on and why the numbers are going the way they're going.

Sorry I don't have more definitive answers or explanations.

[nashville_brook]

89. um, they're cheating.

[Adrahil]

169. So... The count comes out more like the caucuses and that's cheating?

I hate caucuses. Archaic and unreliable.

[AtomicKitten]

99. God dammit!!!

What happened to free and fair elections? The party elite wonder why the party is collapsing. She's running against Bernie as if she were the Republican and he the Democrat, and is being aided and abetted by those willing to do whatever it takes.

Take care of the elderly and infirm so they can continue to represent. And thank you x 10000 for standing your ground.

Cheers.

[Duval]

109. That's ok. Thanks for what you are doing.

[suffragette]

116. This takes depressing turnout to new lows.

Thanks for the on the scene report.

[giftedgirl77]

83. OMG HRC is sooooooo powerful.

[UglyGreed]

86. Yes she and the Clintons

are very rich and very powerful.......of course you knew that already or just choose to be naive.

[UglyGreed]

96. Not insult

just an observation......if you took it as insult then perhaps it must of been a correct diagnosis.

[giftedgirl77]

98. Lol, don't quit your day job.

But considering by your posts it's a seasonal job so I'm guessing once it's over you'll go back to one of your other gigs. All we have to do is wait it out for a couple more months tops.

[UglyGreed]

106. I'm very good

at reading people and I wish I could get paid for doing such. Just comes naturally to me. As for your conspiracy theory about seasonal work.......

[giftedgirl77]

107. Meh, I'm stealing that one.

[UglyGreed]

108. Be my guest

[Ed Suspicious]

115. You're very insulting.

[nashville_brook]

265. LOL -- enjoy your DU vacay

[SusanCalvin]

84. Are they making the Hillary supporters do the same thing? nt

[CoffeeCat]

88. It's my understanding that

We said that the HRC people had to do the same thing too. It's my understanding that this happen

[ellennelle]

100. media?

has anyone called the local media? they should be down there, pronto.

maybe then some of the questionable behavior would stop.

this is how caucuses tend toward the questionable, just by their setup.

we need to be rid of them!!

HANG IN THERE!!

[ConsiderThis_2016]

92. "The Hill camp changed the rules and ordered all Bernie supporters leave the room"

If the numbers are... "The preliminary numbers are as follows. Hillary 530; Bernie 600." How can they change the rules from a vote perspective?

[Nanjeanne]

93. I'm just curious why the Hillary people are leading this. Why do they have a mic? Why are they

giving instructions?

Why isn't the Bernie leader and the Hillary leader talking together and working together rather than the Hillary leader running things?

This seems nuts and so blatantly wrong.

[All in it together]

134. Hill's people have been talking to the rules committee

Who gets to make these decisions. There are probably more Hill supporters on the rules committee. They forced this ongoing
Marathon. Counts seem kind of off.

[highprincipleswork]

94. Love your determination. With you in spirit. Hope you all hang in there!!!!

[dchill]

95. K&R!

[All in it together]

97. There are Bernie people here

I'm at the polk co convention. I'm on the credentials committee. We were ahead 532 Bernie, 519Hillary and 8 O'Malley. We made 1200 packets for Delegates but 139 were taken but didn't vote?
Then Hillary's people demanded a recount to get our count down. We had to get checked in again and not leave the room they were allowed to wander in and out of their room. Earlier Hillary's group told Bernie's to leave c
Now a new count is happening now.

[noretreatnosurrender]

111. No Shame

Sounds like they are going to count over and over until enough Sanders supporters leave that Hillary winds up with more delegates.

[renate]

158. welcome to DU, and thanks for the update!

And thank you for the work you're doing!

[CoffeeCat]

101. Ok, they just announce that there will be another count!!!!!!!

They're counting us all again. All of the Bernie supporters. Each count will be lower because some Bernie delegates had to leave. There are disable sand elderly people here. We've been here since 7:00 a.m.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new count is lower. People can't help it that they can't wait around for 6, 7 hours. We were standing in that hot atrium for an hour. That's rough on people who are senior citizens, the disabled and those with health issues.

I'll let you know the final count as soon as I know. They're counting us now.

Edited to add: I just looked at the time. I've been here 10 hours. Unreal.

[Karma13612]

112. this is seriously wrong. What is this, political hunger games?? flippin' H. eom

[UglyGreed]

117. Wow

10 hours!!! Thank you for your commitment!!!!

[JimDandy]

123. Was the delegate count scheduled as the last agenda item for your convention? n/t

[Duval]

126. Of course, her camp knew these older guys couldn't wait around so long.

This sounds like a cleverly orchestrated attempt. I call it voter fraud. It's like Republican tactics.

[cui bono]

262. Fuck Hillary.

Fuck her lying and cheating ways.

.

[Nanjeanne]

103. I'm confused why the Hillary camp is running this - demanding counts, etc.

[CoffeeCat]

119. We were told that we had to do

What the Clinton camp said or they would legally challenge the counts in court.

[Nanjeanne]

138. WOW. That's disgraceful. Hang tough!

[strategery blunder]

160. And why the hell can't the Bernie camp challenge this cluster in court?

Gather all the evidence you can (seems you're already doing this).

Hoist them by their own petard.

Expose their CHEATING.

[CarrieLynne]

275. cant ther bernie camp do the same?

sounds like bullying

[MissDeeds]

113. You are awesome, CoffeeCat

Thank you for hanging tough and seeing this through. I know it's been a terrible ordeal...mentally and physically draining.

Please let everyone there know we are sending out positive vibes and are so grateful for their efforts.

[passiveporcupine]

118. Can someone explain this to me

I admit I don't understand how caucuses work. The night of the caucus (Feb 1 ?) had her ahead on the votes.

What is happening now where the votes are being tallied again?

[Thor_MN]

194. Apparently, some of the people who pledged to their neighbors that they would represent their choice

have reneged and supported a different candidate. It's is to be expected that delegates for candidate that has dropped out to realign, using their best judgment to pick their neighbor's second choice, even if the ex-candidate does not release them.

But the numbers reported are far wide of that, indicating that there are a significant number of faithless delegates.

Under the Democratic Party’s Rules, pledged delegates are not legally “bound” or required to vote according to their presidential preference on the first ballot at the Convention. Rather, these delegates are, pledged “in all good conscience [to] reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.”

So while no crime is committed if a delegate misrepresents their neighbors, it is unseemly. What does seem worse, IMO, is accusing a candidate of cheating, when in fact, faithless delegates have abandoned their pledge to that candidate.

[mhatrw]

216. Clinton cheated. Period.

[Thor_MN]

218. Spring Break? How do you feel about going to 9th grade next year?

[marions ghost]

220. "faithless delegates have abandoned their pledge"

--isn't that what they're supposed to do if they feel there are reasons why the first count was wrong?

Seems like this is the purpose of this layered system, to make sure votes are correct in the end?

That doesn't seem like reneging (although as I understand it even that is permissible).

[Thor_MN]

231. No, they are supposed to honor their pledge.

Their pledge is actually to their neighbors, to accurately represent them at the next level. Shitting on your neighbors is only good in the poker game named for that.

It is supposed to be a deliberative process, which is why they are not bound. The purpose is to best honor the people's wishes in a multi-candidate race, especially when some of the candidates may have dropped out before the county and state conventions.

If there were problems at the local level, the place to address that is at the local level. Delegates that either do not know what they are doing (at best) or lying (at worst) seem to be the story here. If the county totals do not match, within rounding, the local totals, something is going wrong.

What's amazing to me is that Clinton lost delegates and Sanders supporters are whining that she somehow cheated.

[marions ghost]

270. I don't think you have the picture of what is

happening there. It's about the "win" --Iowa tipping to Bernie in the final tally, that can't be tolerated by the Hillary gang.

They stonewalled to get Bernie delegates to leave.

[Thor_MN]

271. I don't think you understand how a caucus works.

I live in a caucus state, and have been a delegate to the district/county convention. Can you claim similar experience?

The number of delegates for each candidate are recorded at the local precinct caucuses. If the number of delegates for each candidate at the convention do not match those numbers, within rounding errors or accounting for candidates that have dropped out, something is going wrong.

Your biased viewpoint wants to blame Clinton. But Clinton's campaign was hurt by this, so there would be absolutely no motive to cause this.

The most plausible explanation from an unbiased viewpoint ( I am not a supporter of either candidate, I'm fine with whoever wins) is that people who didn't know what they were doing became delegates. I have to credit Sanders with bringing new voters into the process, but becoming a delegate, without understanding the process, is not a good idea.

They recounted, because the convention totals were not reflective of the local precinct totals. You can try to spin that to benefit your candidate, but the end result indicates dishonesty in Sanders supporters.

[marions ghost]

273. It seems clear

that the Hillary camp stonewalled the recount process yesterday, regardless of the reasons why delegates (new or not) changed their stripes. They knew that people would have to leave during 11 hours. The system failed those who did leave.

How are Sanders supporters "dishonest?" Evidence?

[Thor_MN]

278. One needs no more evidence than the local precinct totals, if one is honest.

It seems clear that the delegates that flipped either did not understand their pledge, or were dishonest in making it.

It is ridiculous to blame the candidate that lost delegates for what happened.

[marions ghost]

281. OK thank you

then why did it have to be recounted three times (which is what I think they said)?

And we don't know why some delegates didn't even show up. Is that normal?

I am learning some things about this caucus business...

[Thor_MN]

290. Do you not understand that the county convention should be representative of the local results?

Because it wasn't, they made damn sure of what they were going to do. Otherwise, how could anyone trust the results, when the local numbers are subverted at the convention?

This is the equivalent of saying "we know you voted for candidate A, but we think you really wanted candidate X, so we ignored your votes and put candidate X in place".

Regardless of how this happened, blaming it on the candidate who was harmed by it is blaming the victim.

[marions ghost]

291. It is the perspective of those who were there

--that's all I have to go on. Am not at all familiar with caucuses and the more I see the more I DON'T like. They appear to be totally dysfunctional. Not much argument in favor of them (except by people who want room for undue influence).

It looks like Hillary people were telling Sanders people they could go prematurely. The Hillary supporters need to answer to this. And holding people for 11 hours I think you'll agree, is untenable.

I don't think your fairly simplistic interpretation is correct, either. The results are too close.

So I think between this and the third level there will be a lot of gnashing. The results at the third level should tell the story.

[Thor_MN]

292. You have the local precinct totals, which is the perspective of the people of the county.

You seem to be ignoring that the people of the county wanted a different result.

The reported 9 delegates that thought their pledge was misrecorded? Impossible.

A delegate is technically an elected position. One runs to be a delegate for a candidate, if there are enough people who wish to be delegates. Ideally, one runs to be a delegate for the candidate of their choice, but what is important is the delegate spot is pledged to a candidate, not the person's whims. The spot is not bound, because candidates drop out and there could be campaign ending events, such as John Edward's exit (I shook his hand the night before he suspended his campaign.) The delegate is promising their neighbors to faithfully represent them at the convention and make their best decision if the candidate they are pledged to is no longer running.

I am simplifying, for your benefit, since you have never participated in a caucus. There are complex rules for apportioning delegates. But there are rules, not just the feelings of people on the internet in other states. Don't let your biases for a Sanders win cloud the issue.

What I have been saying all along is that is ridiculous to blame Clinton for the results. She lost delegates due to this, it would be insane to think her campaign conspired to cause this. That would be like blaming an assault victim for putting their face in the path of their attacker's fist.

"The results at the third level should tell the story."

You don't understand that the effects roll up? Clinton lost 6 state delegates and Sanders gained 6, in respect to what the people of Polk County wanted on caucus night. That is a significant deviation and the party had to be damn sure that they were going to deviate from what the people wanted. The state level convention is already tainted by Polk County's deviation. The desire of everyone (that isn't irrationally biased) is that it doesn't have that much effect on the State Convention.


You are letting your wishes for Sanders try to spin that into some kind of dirty trick. Since neither of us is a resident of Polk County, Iowa, how about we give it a rest?

[marions ghost]

293. thanks for further explanation

--I do have a better picture of how it works--and I will follow this story because I'm sure somebody will do a definitive analysis after the final convention.

Couple of points tho--

Am NOT blaming Clinton supporters for the lost delegates, as I understood from the beginning that would not benefit them. I think the jury is out on what happened to the missing delegates. If they defected we might guess that they did it for conscientious objector reasons, not premeditated malice hopefully.

I DO blame the Clinton backers for trying to discourage Sanders delegates in the recount, when apparently if you leave, your vote is not counted (how stupid is a system that allows that to happen?!) Give this state a proper primary, please somebody.

The way I see it the Clinton backers may be guilty not of "dirty tricks" but overzealous stonewalling out of anxiety. Not saying they did it with premeditated purpose. But they should be held accountable for what happened. Maybe this will help get rid of caucuses there.

The state convention should be interesting. I can't see how this won't have an effect.

[Thor_MN]

294. Q: Will you hold the reported 9 delgates who believe their pledge was "misrecorded" accountable?

Since that is not possible? Someone had a report of 9 delegates voting for Sanders at the convention that believe their pledge was "misrecorded". Since the delegate position was Clinton's, these people either did not understand that they had run for and won a Clinton delegate position, or deliberately misrepresented themselves, these people were a large part of the problem.

I have no evidence of anything untoward happening. The Polk County Democratic Party did due diligence to make sure that subverting the local precinct totals was the correct thing to do. Which is the proper thing to do. If anyone was telling people to leave, that would be improper, but all I have heard is reports from people irrationally saying that Clinton was pulling dirty tricks.

I don't hear anyone complaining of Minnesota's caucus results, but maybe that's because Sanders won. But in the end, the only people who have standing in this issue are Iowa residents. Calling for them to switch to a primary, if you don't live in the state should earn one a giant "Sit down and STFU."

[marions ghost]

295. Improper = dirty tricks (whether premeditated or not).

I certainly can't compare two states' caucus systems. Somebody from WA said they hate it.

From my perspective primaries are the way to go. This caucus spectacle is disturbing. Too much room for manipulation that does not represent the majority, especially in a tight election. All this is probably going to lead to further analyses.

I think anyone-- anywhere in the country-- can have an interest in another state's system. What if I wanted to move to Iowa? America is more fluid than you suggest.

The jury is out--I need more opinions. I understand yours, thanks.

[Thor_MN]

296. Unless you are an Iowa resident, your opinion is of no value.

After you do move to Iowa, then your opinion counts. Before, you are just criticizing someone's system with absolutely no influence at all. If you live in a state with a Primary, good for you and you should leave well enough alone. Minnesota is a caucus state and Minnesota's election system is one of the best in the nation. Elections are handled at the state level and if one doesn't live in the state in question, they have no standing to try to complain.

Personally, I would favor a hybrid system, with at least a week of polling and mail-in ballots. Then, the rest of the caucus system to elect delegates and draft the platform. Taking the apportioning of delegate out of the immediate fray of caucus night would allow the chairs to properly educate the delegates of their responsibility to represent their neighbors, not just vote they way they wish with no regard to who that delegate spot is pledged to.

[marions ghost]

297. Oh sure, I can have an opinion about what goes on in other states

I don't care to have influence, but I can have an opinion. "Educate the delegates of their responsibility to represent their neighbors" -- sorry I don't like that kind of maneuvering/education.

Glad I'm not in a caucus with you.

[Thor_MN]

298. Sure, you can have an opinion, but it has no value.

Because it doesn't mean anything. You can spout it from the rooftops and it won't change a thing in Iowa.

You don't like people knowing what they are doing? You prefer to have people ignorant of the process and just wander blindly through the system? Do you also support legislators not knowing what to do? Both are elected positions after all.

Maybe it's a good thing your state doesn't have a caucus system as you appear to support keeping people from knowing how the system works.

[marions ghost]

299. I know how the system doesn't work

you may be sure of that.

[Thor_MN]

300. Ah, an honest to god, one day wonder expert...

You didn't understand the system yesterday and now you know how it doesn't work.

You still don't know how all of it works or why it works.

[marions ghost]

301. Hey, dont take off your rose colored glasses

...I took mine off a long time ago. Go fight with somebody else.

[Thor_MN]

302. Take a look back, you responded to me, not the other way around.

My glasses are not rose colored, my glasses show reality.

You are the one with an admitted bias, trying to turn it into a campaign issue for Sanders.

If you want to argue, find someone else to respond to.

[Xoyous]

274. You're arguing under the false premise...

...that all 1200 delegates showed up. In that scenario, yes, the delegate count ratio should be similar if not equal to what it was at the local level.

Unfortunately over 130 delegates did not show up yesterday, and more Sanders delegates showed than Clinton delegates. This is why there was a discrepancy in the ratio and why Sanders initially came out ahead.

[marions ghost]

282. Thank you for clarifying

Am wondering:

Why would Clinton delegates not show up?

Why would 130 delegates not show up?

How far are these numbers from normal discrepancies?

[Xoyous]

287. 1, 2) same answer, probably dismayed by the state of things, 3) no clue nt

[marions ghost]

120. This is really awful

[jillan]

122. Thank you for what you are doing - and as a personal request, please take care of those

that have special needs.

I am a caregiver and I know how difficult situations like this can be when you are not comfortable.

[CoffeeCat]

125. Bernie chair just told us that

All if these counts for Bernie have gone as follows throughout the day:

532...513...503.

People are wearing down and leaving.

Waiting for Clinton's count. We were just told that they have not started counting. Don't know what they are doing.

At this rate, we'll lose more people the longer this drags on.

Clinton camp may have lost supporters too. Who knows. Should know soon.

[Lizzie Poppet]

128. So glad you've been able to document this.

This needs to go to court if the Clinton cabal screws you over.

[ellennelle]

135. AGREED!!!

[dana_b]

195. damnit! I am so sorry that this is happening to you all

and I hope that the Bernie campaign files a MAJOR complaint against the Clinton camp. Some serious BULLSHIT!!!

[marions ghost]

221. wow...

this caucus system is awful...

[Vote2016]

127. Thanks for everything you're doing!

[SoapBox]

130. Any angle of them not making it accessible or

providing for those with ADA disabilities?

This is UNACCEPTABLE and is virtually criminal.

[CoffeeCat]

140. Very handicap accessible auditorium and

Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:42 AM - Edit history (1)

School. Auditorium is brand new, state of the art facility. Very comfortable.

Kinda comical--but because this amazing auditorium is so new, no food or drink allowed. So that's another factor. People had lunch but are hungry now. Dinner time. Plus, people may have special dietary needs (diabetics, etc).

[Kalidurga]

142. It isn't virtually criminal except in the sense it isn't illegal.

[PonyUp]

143. Good point! This needs to be assessed! nt

[warrprayer]

137. Thank you!

Support you completely!

[RoccoR5955]

139. No surrender, no defeat! n/t

[CoffeeCat]

150. Bernie Chair just gave us message from Bernie

Bernie just Tweeted about the shenanigans in Polk County.

We all clapped and cheered.

We needed that!!!

[MerryBlooms]

152. Hang in there!

Thanks so much for keeping us informed.

[renate]

161. thank you so much for hanging tough

All of you are rock stars. Hungry, thirsty, tired rock stars.

[randome]

164. Care to tell us what the message was?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is -hockey- Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]

[suffragette]

180. Wow, he now has two tweets up about it.

Thank you for hanging tough and reporting this.

[billhicks76]

153. ***CHEATERS***

What's the old saying? They Never Prosper!

[Ruby the Liberal]

154. I'm not following you

Never lived in a caucus state.

If I am understanding this, the final delegate count from the state to national is filtered through layers of caucuses (caucasi)?

And they have been holding you all there for 11 hours and counting?

And the final number of people left standing at the end of this torture determines the next level of delegate count - and at this level can FLIP the original count/split from the voters?

That is completely insane - and should probably be illegal as "impeding the right to vote" (or not having your vote counted or whatever).

[JimDandy]

174. You got it in a nutshell. n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

181. Amazing.

[Thor_MN]

155. So basically, you are reporting faithless delegates and saying Clinton is pulling tricks?

Faithless delegates are people who are voting other than what they pledged to vote. They are misrepresenting the people in their neighborhood. If the caucus night number indicate one candidate won and the delegates vote differently at the next level/state conventions, it is the people voting for the wrong candidate who are cheating.

Let's be honest, if what you are saying is correct, some of the delegates now supporting Sanders are dishonest.

[M_A]

182. From the Iowa Democratic Party web site

"While all of the county convention delegates pledged to a presidential candidate on February 1st, as per our long-standing delegate selection rules, this preference is non-binding. Because none of the delegates are bound, and because of the shifting dynamics of the presidential race, including Governor O’Malley’s suspension of his campaign for president, the state delegates elected at the county conventions on March 12 for each presidential candidate can and do change from the state delegate equivalence that was projected from the precinct caucuses on February 1st."

[Thor_MN]

188. If true (no link) then Iowa appears not to care if their representatives change their mind...

I know that when I vote, I expect the delegates to faithfully represent my vote. O'Malley's delegates should, of course, be free to shift their vote, but the numbers in the OP are much further from the Caucus night numbers than simply shift O'Malley's delegates to Sanders.

End of the day, although your citeless statement would indicate that it's not a crime, it is the Sander's camp that is not representing their neighbors.

[JimDandy]

200. From a reddit thread re Polk County switching of votes:

'We know we have 9 people from Clinton that realigned to us. These are believed to be people that were supposed to be for Sanders but were misrepresented as Clinton delegates. As well as 2 of the O'Malley people."

[Thor_MN]

203. So 9 faithless delegates, who abandoned their pledge.

If one is realigning, without being released the candidate they are pledged to, one is a faithless delegate. If they mistakenly pledged to Clinton on caucus night, the honorable thing to do would be vote for Clinton.

The 2 O'Malley delegates are free to pick either candidate, but the 9 that apparently screwed up on caucus night are dishonoring their neighbors by switching from what the pledged to do. If the caucus night totals are not reflected at the district/state levels within rounding errors, there is dishonesty occurring.

[JimDandy]

214. It sounds more like they were Sanders delegates who were "mistakenly" put in the Clinton column

after the caucuses. There is a video up on CSPAN of this same precinct at the caucuses apparently showing a lot counts, and recounts even then. The "mistake" or dishonesty appears to have started then and a course correction seems to have been effected today by the delegates. Apparently more shenanigans on the part of Clinton's camp were continuing today.

We are rounding to 3 digits here in WA on Mar 26th to stop some of that tallying tomfoolery and reduce the likelihood of ties (the infamous coin tosses).

[Thor_MN]

217. Explain why you believe the official local caucus results are wrong.

The place to correct that is at the local level, long before the county convention.

The "course correction" you dismiss is officially faithless delegates. AKA, dishonest Sanders supporters.

A single precinct is not going flip an entire county.

Blaming Clinton for faithless delegates flipping their votes to Sanders is ridiculous.

[JimDandy]

224. My post was clear. Take it up with the delegates from that precinct who apparently felt wronged

that their Sanders vote disappeared before the district level was even reached. Or don't. I'll bet the full story will come out soon anyway.

[Thor_MN]

229. So you have nothing other than your feelings that the local results were wrong.

Take it up with the local party officials. I'm sure they would love to hear how you believe they screwed up.

[JimDandy]

230. Again, DELEGATES FROM THAT PRECINCT gave that as the probable explanation. YOU are the one

not believing them. YOU take it up with them.

Bye. (Take a hint.)

ETA: I see you are disregarding information by others on this thread, so on ignore you go!

[Thor_MN]

232. Irrational shouting is a symptom of Tourette's Syndrome...

I'm going by the official local totals, which carries more weight with me than whiney individuals. The first part of a caucus is to determine delegate totals. Then delegates are chosen to represent the candidates. The delegates that believe they were wrongly reported, it's their mistake, the poll is what it is, the official record. They offered to be delegates for Clinton, regardless if they knew it or not. The caucus poll determines the number for each candidate. If the delegates at the convention does not match the local caucus poll, it is the delegates that screwed up.

Your position seems to supporting anecdotal evidence from... somewhere. That was either not processed or deemed incorrect. Either way, the official local totals represents what the people wanted, and that appears to have been subverted at the county level. Blaming the person damaged by that is literally blaming the victim.

You responded to me, not the other way around. Glad you are done. (Take a hike.)

[emmadoggy]

191. No, the delegates are not bound to

represent the candidate they were chosen for at the precinct caucus. Crazy, I know, but true.

I was on the credentials committee at my county convention today and we had signage up stating this and asked all the delegates as they checked in who they were for. We didn't have anyone at our convention who switched sides.

We DID have a handful of Bernie delegates who didn't show up and a couple of Hillary delegates who didn't show up. And then we were short one or two alternates as well - but in the end it didn't matter I don't think. Our county went just SLIGHTLY for Hillary at the caucus, and today, both Hillary and Bernie were awarded 3 delegates to the district convention.

It is a tricky process.

[Thor_MN]

198. They are not bound. But it is dishonest to misrepresent.

Delegates are ledged to a candidate, voting against that pledge is dishonest, unless one has been released by the candidate they are pledged to.

What is ridiculous is to accuse a candidate of cheating, when that candidate's pledged delegates abandon their pledge and vote other than what they promised to their neighbors.

In a multi-candidate race, there is some variation expected, as some candidates become non-viable or drop out before the convention. In a two horse race, the convention should represent the local caucus results within rounding errors.

The OP is apparently reporting a significant amount of faithless delegates, and blaming it on the candidate that the faithless delegates abandoned.

[JonLeibowitz]

223. You continue to assume that all Bernie delegates were correctly labeled as such at the Precincts

But you present no evidence that this is the case, instead choosing to call them dishonest.

[a2liberal]

258. yep

After his first few posts I was going to respond to him and explain in case he really wasn't being disingenuous, but after reading a few more I saw that others did explain and he of course ignored it.

It's not like this is new news... These discrepancies between the official reports and what people who are there said happened came up the day after the caucus. Of course then the Clinton camp said it would get sorted at the county level if true. Now that it's happening they're outraged. I think they expected it to be over by now, partially aided by denying Sanders the Iowa win in media reports. They didn't think it would actually come out and now that it is they of course have to twist it to try to describe those who know what they were elected for as "faithless" instead of admitting that the discrepancies reported initially were real.

[JonLeibowitz]

259. Indeed. It appears we are damned at every level of the process. To be expected, really; the

fight moves on.

[Gwhittey]

157. Someone needs to Call Jimmy Carter!

nt

[CoffeeCat]

163. Final count

Bernie 503
Hillary 511

Both camps end up with each 114 delegates that will be sent to district convention.

[guitarguybs07]

167. I guess then overall it's still a net win for bernie from where he was before?

.

[CoffeeCat]

184. Yes, the Bernie chair said that Hillary

Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016, 03:11 AM - Edit history (2)

Started out 60 delegates ahead, based on the initial Iowa Caucus results.

So even though the delegate count is split 114--Hillary Clinton LOST support since Feb 1 when the Iowa caucuses happened.

Bernie's enthusiastic and loyal supporters showed up in spades. We didn't lose support as Clinton did. It will be interesting to see how other Iowa County Conventions fared today.

Some Hillary people defected and some didn't show. Not a good sign for her. Sander's supporters have never been stronger. Clinton's support took a dive.

The Bernie Chair explained that Clinton camp accused the Sander's camp of allowing Un-credentialed alternate delegates to participate. That was the Clinton rationale for the first recount. That's why we all had to leave the auditorium and wait in atrium. Each alternate had to have their credentials inspected individually. They vetted all alternates. There were around 100.

ALL ALTERNATES WERE VETTED AND FOUND TO HAVE APPROPRIATE CREDENTIALS. The initial accusations from the Clinton camp were UNFOUNDED. NOT ONE ALTERNATE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THEIR CREDENTIALS!

After those alternates passed by the vetting process, the Hillary chair instructed them that they were free to go. They should not have left.

Despite these shenanigans, the unnecessary vetting and the fact that Bernie's count decreased from 532 down to 503--we still ended up tying her in delegates earned that will go to the next step. To the district/state convention.

They played these cheating games because they were panicked. Clinton lost support and delegates since the caucus date. Polk county is the largest county in Iowa. This was a big deal.

503 Democrats today experienced firsthand just how low the Clinton camp is. People were furious and many took to the microphone to express their disgust, sadness, outrage and true feeling about what happened here today. The damage is great and most likely irreversible. The fury, tears, and disappointment experienced in this auditorium (and expressed all day at the microphone) today was very, very real.

Again, all 500+ Bernie delegates voted UNANIMOUSLY to ask the Clinton Chair to resign, as several Bernie party officials saw him telling Bernie alternate delegates to leave.

I'm heading home now. After 11hours. Thank you for reading and listening and for your kind messssges and support.

[dana_b]

196. you rock!!!

a well deserved meal and a beer or a glass of wine for you!

[Duval]

197. Victor and I have decided to tell you "We love you, for your endurance, patience and info."

We never expected our party to do this outrageous voter suppression tactics. DNC fingers??

We can never thank you enough.

<3 <3

[mhatrw]

213. Clinton is the queen of a rigged electoral system, a rigged corporate media & a rigged economy!

Hellarigged Clinton

[marions ghost]

225. thanks for this summary

Coffeecat

[thereismore]

234. Thank you!!! I have no words.

[Gregorian]

235. Thanks! I've wanted to hear as many of these caucus experiences as I can. Great write-up.

What a story. I can't wait to improve this nightmare of an electoral system.

[DaGimpster]

187. I'd say yes.

Locking it up 114/114, while not a flip, is over performing the original caucus night result for Polk County.

I'll take it.

[CoffeeCat]

172. Bernie delegation just voted unanimously to

Ask Hillary's delegate chair to resign because he broke the rules--and was telling Bernie supporters they could leave. He instructed them to go and told Sanders supporters they were free to leave (when the process was still happening).

The motion passed unanimously.

[DaGimpster]

189. FYI

I was the guy who stood up and asked if a motion could be made to eject that chair from the convention for their behavior.

[Jackilope]

193. Thank you and CoffeeCat! Eye opening!

Cheating, lying, every dirty trick to steal the nomination. Clintons have no shame. Grrrrr.

[renate]

256. woo! good for you!

Thank you SO much for sticking with it through such a long and arduous day.

[siderealization]

201. On Twitter, @desmoinesdem: "Am collecting first-person accounts from Hillary & Bernie delegates..."

FYI, for CoffeeCat & Others, Iowa blogger 'Bleeding Heartland' (@desmoinesdem) is looking into this:

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708814563890765824

"Am collecting first-person accounts from Hillary & Bernie delegates to Polk Co convention. Pls message or e-mail me about what you saw/heard."

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708807705100562432

This is misleading. Both groups were fully counted again, single-file (not just the Bernie group).

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708818931163668480

I'm confused about what you are claiming. Please e-mail me specifics on what you saw/heard.

[marions ghost]

228. From Coffeecat's final post:

"503 Democrats today experienced firsthand just how low the Clinton camp is. People were furious and many took to the microphone to express their disgust, sadness, outrage and true feeling about what happened here today. The damage is great and most likely irreversible. The fury, tears, and disappointment experienced in this auditorium (and expressed all day at the microphone) today was very, very real."

[MerryBlooms]

173. Holy cow, what a nail biter.

Go home and get some rest.

Again, thank you so much for the running updates. You're the tops!

[mattocaster6]

176. Hmmm

Could this end up meaning that Bernie wins Iowa?

[jfern]

178. He probably will

[mhatrw]

215. They even cheated on that and gave Hillary 115 and Sanders 113.

Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)

Such cheaters.

[Cheese Sandwich]

179. Wow. Thanks for sticking it out.

[DaGimpster]

183. Just left the convention, had to.

What a fiasco I can't even take the time to respond.

[emmadoggy]

192. Did they even get around to doing the other

convention business - platform discussion etc?

Sounds like a crazy and exhausting experience, Coffeecat!! Our convention ran a little long due to discussion on the platform, but we were done by 12 or 12:30.

[All in it together]

205. We did most of the platform before the alignment between Bernie and Hillary delegates.

I left when the Bernie supporters were still picking delegates ( whittling down the number to 114 delegates) to go on to Iowa district and state conventions, about an hour ago.

I'm tired from being there at 6 AM to get delegates credentialed. And the Sanders people did it correctly.

Clinton supporters were whining outside the building, waiting for the Sanders people to finish our business. They wanted us to hurry now that the voting was done for B & H after they drug the process out for hours and hours.

We have more platform to do and other business. This system is drawn out over and over.

I don't know how they'll ever get us to forgive them these tricks and lies. It's all about winning for them no matter how they do it.

[marions ghost]

208. OMG what a depressing experience

Let us know how it goes when you can. Thanks for your input.

[4dsc]

272. We didn't get MOST of the platform work completed

After the Hillary folks joined us again we were informed that 30 more planks were presented to the chair and that we still had 8 minority reports to go through. That would have taken another 5-6 hours easily. So we had a motion to forward the work to the district convention. Motion of adjourn was quickly brought up after that.

[retrowire]

199. What's the deal at the moment now?

I know no other source for following this story.

My only source right now is the best source, CoffeeCat!

[xloadiex]

202. There is a post over on Reddit

Iowa4Sanders. It sounds like there is shit going on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IowaForSanders/comments/4a58ou/county_convention_update/

[JEB]

204. There is hell to pay when Clinton doesn't get her way. eom

[Lucinda]

227. She won the county on election day

This is other people trying to subvert that result

Polk County
Democratic
100% Reporting
H. Clinton 53.2% 12,122
B. Sanders 46.2% 10,526
M. O'Malley 0.7% 152
Other 0.0% 0
Uncommitted 0.0% 0


Read more: http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/iowa#ixzz42kIk1lME

[zentrum]

210. Go CoffeeCat!

Can you get pictures? Call Lawyers to take statements?

Shame on any Democrat in office who does not stand up against this kind of thing.

[WillyT]

222. + 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!! - K & R !!!

[PatrynXX]

226. hey with O'Malley's people in there it was gonna happen. Some Hillary people could switch but Omall

Omally's have to because he's not a viable candidate and there were 8 SED or SDE's going. enough in theory to tip the scale to either an absolute tie or in Bernies favor because Omalley's people preferred Bernie to Hillary 10 to 1 in our Precinct

[itsrobert]

233. How many non credential Bernie supporters left

Before they got caught?

[Vilis Veritas]

236. If you read the thread

You would have found that all were credentialed properly, the problem happened when the chair told them now that they had been properly verified they could leave.

The chair is a Hillary supporter and there was a vote later to have the chair ejected from their position for violating the rules.

Peace

[itsrobert]

237. Sounds like biased reporting

Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016, 01:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Is there an unbiased report?

[Fawke Em]

241. So tired of this misspelling...

It's BIASED... with an ED.

"Sounds like unbiased reporting."

There is no such thing as "unbias" as a word.

And, yes, this isn't a news report, so the BIAS isn't in favor of the establishment candidate.

[shireen]

255. unbiased

It's BIASED... with an ED.

"Sounds like unbiased reporting."

There is no such thing as "unbias" as a word.

Just FYI ...

From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unbiased

unbiased

1: free from bias; especially : free from all prejudice and favoritism : eminently fair <an unbiased opinion>

2: having an expected value equal to a population parameter being estimated <an unbiased estimate of the population mean>

[MrMickeysMom]

289. That should have been a clue, eh?

Throwing tantrums goes with that kind of low information.

[mak3cats]

242. You have any other first hand accounts that refute Coffee Cat's account?

If not, then there is no basis for your accusation other than being ignorant of the facts. (Oh, and it's "unbiased." You're welcome.)

[siderealization]

238. Folks on the ground in Iowa should contact 'Bleeding Heartland' (@desmoinesdem) on Twitter

ICYMI, Iowa blogger 'Bleeding Heartland' (@desmoinesdem) is reporting on the situaton. Would be great for all folks on the ground to make contact:

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708814563890765824

"Am collecting first-person accounts from Hillary & Bernie delegates to Polk Co convention. Pls message or e-mail me about what you saw/heard."

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708818931163668480

"I'm confused about what you are claiming. Please e-mail me specifics on what you saw/heard."

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708841494925303808

"Bernie delegates making lots of allegations about people "telling" them to leave.I want to hear specifics: who told whom to leave and when?"

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708852962878074881

"I doubt said video exists. 2 Bernie dels including 1 who was helping lead group at convention say haven't seen it."

[cyberswede]

240. What a shitty post.

DUers were there.

[cui bono]

261. Can I have a link to the report of "non credential Bernie supporters"?

You are the only one I see who keeps repeating this and yet you never have any citation to back it up.

I just want to make sure that everyone keeps taking your posts seriously.

.

[Vote2016]

243. keep 'em honest!

[Uncle Joe]

245. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for your good works, CoffeeCat.

[Lorien]

248. Where is Polk County? We have one here in Florida

but this isn't a caucus state.

[Lorien]

250. Nevermind; I just saw the answer upthread! nt

[k8conant]

254. Here's the report from the Iowa Democratic Party:

http://iowademocrats.org/iowa-democratic-county-convention-results/#more-15104

Polk County Clinton 115 Sanders 113

[All in it together]

257. Some people might have left early in the day

The High School auditorium we were in was standing room and balcony only.

There should have been nearly 1200 people there based on people who registered and got their credentials. And there should have been about 1200 cards filled out that stated their preference between Bernie, Clinton and O'Malley that were handed in at the time of check in. The original count of the cards was 1059. So what happened to the other cards?

[CarrieLynne]

276. bernie post caucus iowa speech here

[yourpaljoey]

277. Can we help?

[Zorra]

279. That's disgusting. Can't they just do the right thing, even once? nt

[Boldine]

280. Thank you CoffeCat

for posting this and keeping us updated.

So disgusting that this happened.

[StandingInLeftField]

284. Thank you CoffeeCat and all the DU Bernie delegates

Facebook and tweet ALL of the cheating and obstructionist behavior demonstrated today by the Hillary Rodham Clinton apparatchik.

[MrMickeysMom]

288. I'd think to cal the county Democratic Party and the PRESS!