2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWashPost asks: "Why aren't Jews backing Sanders?" Which raises another important question:
Why aren't Sanders supporters asking Jewish voters to explain why they're supporting Hillary over Sanders?
Is it because, unlike voters of color, Jewish voters aren't assumed by some to be low-information voters, voting against their interests because of blind loyalty who need to have Sanders' value explained to them? Or are there other reasons?
We like Hillary Clinton. Weve known her well for many, many years. Weve worked with her. Theres a tremendous comfort level, said Rabinowitz, the former Bill Clinton staffer. Bernie Sanders? Eh, dont know him so well. Like him. Excited for him. Proud about his success. But were with the other guy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/03/08/bernie-sanders-is-jewish-why-isnt-that-convincing-jews-to-vote-for-him/
villager
(26,001 posts)The Washington Post has just declared their support isn't real!
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)and they have no evidence for the claim that Jewish people aren't voting for Bernie aside from anecdotes from the likes of that former Clinton staffer.
I opened the link to see the numbers because I was curious how the vote was split. The article makes clear that there is no polling, no evidence, that it just seems that Jewish voters aren't supporting Bernie. Late in the article it states "its all guesswork." Well, that seems like a pretty spurious claim to use as the basis of an article.
That headline is divisive crap.
Marr
(20,317 posts)They buried that part in the middle. I guess you didn't read that far, if you actually thought this article was indicative of anything but the Hillary campaign's disgusting tendency to use race/gender/ethnicity as a wedge.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It then gets recycled on social media - also as threads here, as if here matters any more. It is all 99% of everyone who runs into this garbage will EVER SEE. Headlines are EVERYTHING. WaPo is obsolete and doesn't disguise its bias, while still claiming "objectivity." For this purpose it's a burden that any text needs to be written. Mock-text could fill in the space, except someone would notice and then that would be the story: "WaPo no longer bothering to write any stories below the headline before publishing."
In this case, you can be certain the headline preceded any effort by the "journalist." "Write a story about why Sanders is so unpopular with Jews." It must have been a burden indeed. The writer called a couple of people he already knew would give him the requisite quotes, and voila.
Story! Journalism!
kristopher
(29,798 posts)Autumn
(45,058 posts)No ones fucking business but their own. It's like me asking you why you support Hillary or you asking me why I support Bernie. It's a choice we have.
Not surprised at all that Rabinowitz, a former Bill Clinton staffer support Clinton. I'm a former Hillary supporter, don't support her anymore.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)As evidenced by the deluge of lectures about how black people voting for Hillary are voting against our interests, clueless, victims of Stockholm Syndrome, etc. accompanied by sanctimonious and condescending demands that we explain why we're voting the way we are.
Autumn
(45,058 posts)Your vote is your business not mine or no one else's. You can vote for Trump and I don't care.
malletgirl02
(1,523 posts)do the same thing, to Bernie supporters, they are not innocent in all of this.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We aren't collectively to blame for that one.
And we're going to see a very different break in the AA vote in Illinois, Missouri, and Ohio.
Black voters in Chicago are not going to give heavy support to Rahm Emanuel's candidate.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I already voted:
I didn't think of Rahm Emanuel when I saw Hillary Clinton's name on the ballot.
I DID think of Rahm Emanuel when I saw Anita Alvarez's name on the ballot.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)mentioned by those citing it and which was full of many persons who support Bernie raising holy hell at that OP. I posted very strongly in objection to that OP and I support Bernie but you are hanging that OP around my neck as well which makes you exactly the same as the twit who posted that OP in the first place.
You have a nice day.
Behind the Aegis
(53,952 posts)Funny how we were ignored when we were slammed as GLBT people, and now, the same play is being made toward Jews. Actually, it reads more of a complaint (maybe an accusation?) that Jews aren't getting the same treatment.
ETA: BTW...this gay Jew thanks you for your comments then, since then, and now! L'Chaim chaver!
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and here it is.
Behind the Aegis
(53,952 posts)Of course, it is always interesting to watch people get "suddenly" interested in GLBT issues and homophobia when it serves their agenda, this is exemplified in a post in LBN about Jewish students being harassed, and then morphs into something else. Anti-Semitism: the hate that keeps on "giving."
katsy
(4,246 posts)is low info unless something totally whack comes out of their mouth.
You don't need to defend your choice but I see you posting here over and again about how bad Bernie supporters are. There's a whole slew of Bernie supporters here that aren't "over exuberant" so how about a nice shout out to them!
People have their own opinions. Alls good! No one is holding your vote hostage! I totally respect your vote.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You guys aren't even trying to pretend anymore, are you?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Do you deny that Hillary has a larger share of Jewish support than Sanders? If she does, why aren't Sanders supporters questioning why that is?
Funny thing, I snipped the quote some of you are sneering at because it offered an explanation that is consistent with one of the reasons voters of color are giving for supporting Hillary over Bernie. It makes no difference who it came from but you seem to be so caught up in the anti-anything Clinton hysteria that you can't even address it.
Why do you think that Jews are supporting Hillary in larger numbers than they are supporting Bernie? And why aren't Bernie supporters asking Jews that question?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Do you really believe all Jews think alike?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)What is this...more David Brock type attacks that mean nothing at all?
Find the source of this...will head straight back to a Clinton operative....just like the racial attacks on Bernie.
It's all so shameful. Hillary needs to speak out about it.
katsy
(4,246 posts)Here's a contrary opinion:
http://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/randi-marshall/bernie-sanders-is-jewish-but-will-jews-vote-for-him-1.11420238
So what?
Loudestlib
(980 posts)I do. Now prove me wrong.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)evidence.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)"most national polling does not report which candidates Jews have voted for in the primaries and caucuses, or who they say they will support."
It's an opinion piece with no evidence, because there is none.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)I replied to: EffieBlack (4,394 posts)
"11. Obviously, you haven't even bothered to read the article
Do you deny that Hillary has a larger share of Jewish support than Sanders? If she does, why aren't Sanders supporters questioning why that is?
Funny thing, I snipped the quote some of you are sneering at because it offered an explanation that is consistent with one of the reasons voters of color are giving for supporting Hillary over Bernie. It makes no difference who it came from but you seem to be so caught up in the anti-anything Clinton hysteria that you can't even address it.
Why do you think that Jews are supporting Hillary in larger numbers than they are supporting Bernie? And why aren't Bernie supporters asking Jews that question? "
He asked if anyone denied that Hillary has a larger share of the Jewish support than Sanders, I replied that I do deny that she has a larger share. It's tough being the underdog. We are always on defense.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)than Bernie
Thanks
kristopher
(29,798 posts)cyberpj
(10,794 posts)But to believe WashPost and the one Jew they asked (who is a former Bill Clinton staffer for Pete's sake) is more than a little naive.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Did they fire Capehart yet?
kcjohn1
(751 posts)So far all the votes have being in states with very little amount of jewish voters.
Probably the only area with any significant jewish presence is Oakland county in Michigan, and that went to Clinton 53-46 far cry from what we saw in the deep south where AA voters went to Clinton 91-9. Its mind boggling that people are offended when people ask why certain groups are voting the way they are doing, especially when its in uniform pattern.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)But this is the second article I've seen claiming Jews were more excited about Joe Lieberman.
Personally, I'm Jewish, and in 2000 and 2004 I knew zero Joe Lieberman supporters of any religion.
Today, I know multiple Jews who support Bernie Sanders and multiple Jews who support Hillary Clinton.
Behind the Aegis
(53,952 posts)Like you, I too am Jewish. I knew plenty of Lieberman Jewish supporters in both times, less so in 2004. I don't care for how Lieberman "evolved" but the revisionism is irksome to say the least. "2000 Joe" wasn't the same "2004 Joe", and people need to remember this. While he was always traditionally Jewish and observant, he didn't take a hard right turn until after 9-11.
As for Sanders and Clinton, I haven't met by one Jew who is backing Clinton, everyone else is behind Sanders or leaning that way. However, this is just another form of baiting, and more of this type of bullshit is sure to come!
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)Even though he was too conservative for my liking, I felt proud that he was chosen to be Gore's VP because it was a symbol of how far we have come. Just like some black conservatives were proud of Obama's election even though they didn't agree with him politically (and may not have even voted for him). Plus, Lieberman wasn't nearly as intolerable back then as he became later.
At the same time, a lot of Jews were/are wary of having a Jewish president or vice president because throughout history one of the main antisemitic tropes has been that Jews have too much influence in government.
FWIW, I am way more excited about the prospect of Bernie becoming president than I was about the prospect of Lieberman becoming VP in 2000. And no, I didn't support Lieberman when he ran for president in 2004.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Traditionally, Jewish voters are one of the most solid supporters of Democrats that you can find...every bit as solid as African americans, in fact, though in much fewer numbers.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)The Washington Post Ran 16 negative stories attacking Bernie in 16 hours.
"In what hat has to be some kind of record, the Washington Post ran 16 negative stories on Bernie Sanders in 16 hours, between roughly 10:20 PM EST Sunday, March 6, to 3:54 PM EST Monday, March 7a window that includes the crucial Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan, and the next mornings spin:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/washington-post-ran-16-negative-stories-bernie-sanders-16-hours
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)pretty sure i had you blocked.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)for Bernie or Hillary, so it seems odd that it is framed this way based on a few anecdotes. I've got some anecdotes, too
Most Jews are Democrats 64 percent, compared to 26 percent who are Republican, according to Pew. Beyond that, its all guesswork.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Let them push this divisive narrative. People are getting wise to it. Bernie wants to unite people and the only way they can try to prevent it is by dividing us. Sad.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Or, right-- stirring up divisions based on gender.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And I think it is time we figured out why.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)If she stopped looking like the winner that would all change.
Response to EffieBlack (Original post)
Post removed
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)who have already voted for Bernie, let alone all of those who will vote for him in the coming weeks.
So divisive and condescending. And I'm finally going to say what I've been thinking for ages: the man in your avatar would be rolling in his grave....
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)like minorities are too stupid to decide who will best represent them/us/country. It is, as I said, disgusting.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)I'm at a loss. It is odd, and it is also sad, because you are saying horrible things about some wonderful people and disregarding the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of minorities who will have voted for him when this is all said and done.
Don't they matter? It sounds almost like you are projecting your own disdain for people who don't see things like you do.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Cool.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)but for a few, it might be that Hillary Clinton is much more aggressive on Israel that Bernie Sanders.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)Show me some data.
I suppose WAPO doesn't have the data to support this piece or they would have cited it.
But don't let that stop you from casting aspersions of racism.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Regarding the 2016 presidential field, Hillary Clinton was the runaway favorite of American Jews. Nearly 40 percent of those polled chose her as their first choice out of a list of the four Democratic hopefuls and 10 GOP hopefuls. Clintons top challenger, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was the second choice, garnering 18 percent. Billionaire businessman Donald Trump was the third choice (10 percent), while Jeb Bush polled fourth (9 percent).
The poll, the AJC 2015 Survey of American Jewish Opinion, questioned 1,030 American Jews from Aug. 7-22, when the Iran debate was reaching a fever pitch and a Congressional vote on the deal neared. The survey, which was released last week on the eve of the High Holidays, has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.7 percent.
In terms of the respondents demographics, 35 percent of respondents said they were Reform, 17.6 percent Conservative, 8.1 percent Orthodox and 1.3 percent Reconstructionist. Thirty-seven percent of respondents nearly four in 10 said they were Just Jewish, unconnected to any denomination.
Nearly 49 percent labeled themselves as Democrat, 19 percent Republican and 32 percent Independent. Forty-five percent of those polled said they are liberal or lean liberal, 22 percent said conservative or lean conservative. Thirty-four percent described themselves as moderate/middle of the road.
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/national/looking-ahead-16-vote-iran-not-jews-radar
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Jesus, you really do know that at that instant in time Sanders was not that well known RIGHT? The story stinks, and it is exactly what I expected an operative to do sooner or later. I guess it is now sooner.
August 22, 2015 that data has been not really valid for a loong time by the way
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)this is the most recent that I could find other than one poll that was done in Israel...
...and you want to get on my ass about it...folks need to calm the fuck down
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)after that.
This is how polling works.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)It was probably still 8:1 support for HRC from Black voters last September while it was only 2:1 for Jewish Americans.
I'm not seeing the parallel that the OP is premised upon.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)It would probably be in the 60-40/65-35 range for Clinton. I've studied this a little bit in the past and from what I have studied, Jewish people tend to be rock solid Democrats.
One story did note, though, that one
And no Jewish Congressperson has endorsed Sanders that I can think of.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)September 11, 2015
WASHINGTON (JTA)
Thats a virtual tie, based on the 4.7 percent margin of error. The poll of 1,035 Jews was conducted Aug. 7-22 by GfK. Recent general population polling has showed support for the deal plummeting to the 20s.
...
On the Iran deal, the AJC pollsters went for a straightforward question: Recently, the U.S., along with five other countries, reached a deal on Irans nuclear program. Do you approve or disapprove of this agreement?
A range of other polls of U.S. Jews on the Iran issue have been accused of bias because of questions that attempted to contextualize or explain the deal.
In a follow-up question, the AJC respondents showed a lack of confidence in the ability of the deal to keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Those who replied very confident numbered just 4.9 percent, while somewhat confident were at 30.7 percent; The not so confident came in at 30.1 percent and the not at all confident were at 33.2 percent. Overall, that showed 35.6 percent expressing confidence in the deal and 64.3 percent expressing a lack of confidence.
...
Respondents were slightly likelier than not to believe that ties between the United States and Israel were strained. Asked if U.S.-Israel ties were getting better or worse, 4.7 percent said better and 42.2 percent said they were the same, while 51.9 percent said they were worse.
Respondents were culled from a pool of 55,000 people who had been asked through a system of random selection to participate in such surveys. They responded via email.
Traditional pollsters prefer cold-calling, saying that self-selection in this case, by agreeing to be part of a survey pool inevitably skews results, leaving out respondents who might otherwise not have prepared themselves for polling. However, with the advent of cell phones, cold-call surveys have become for some groups prohibitively expensive, and an increasing number of polls are conducted through email among respondents who have expressed a willingness to be surveyed.
- See more at: http://www.ajc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=7oJILSPwFfJSG&b=8479729&ct=14762867#.dpuf
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)other than a poll of Jewish Israelis, that's all that I've found.
I'm certain that some of those numbers have changed.
You are welcome to look for other polls.
Here's an even older poll with results that you might like
http://jpupdates.com/2015/04/27/ny-poll-shows-hillary-clinton-vulnerable-among-jewish-voters/
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The only reason I know about this one is because someone else recently cited some of the data without linking to it and I had to find it myself.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)from more localized Jewish newspapers and blogs...they MIGHT have something pertaining to the locality
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)It's only speculation as opposed to data but...it does talk about the Lieberman effect...and the Obama effect.
"Because he so much downplays his Jewishness, he doesn't invite a triumphant ethnocentric response of people who would say, 'I'm Jewish; he's Jewish,'" said Rabbi Jonah Pesner, the director of the Religious Action Center, which is the nonpartisan political activism arm of Reform Judaism, the most numerous and generally the most liberal of the Jewish denominations in America.
Pesner also theorized that Sanders's candidacy does not feel so unprecedented to most American Jews, thus dimming the enthusiasm for a historic campaign.
"It's not like Joe Lieberman, where it really felt remarkable. Now, it's not remarkable. Fifteen years is a long time," Pesner said. "We've had a black president. Don't underestimate what that means to the Jewish community."
Pesner speculated that seeing one minority candidate achieve the nation's highest office has eased the anxieties about acceptance among other minority groups, including Jews, who make up about 2 percent of the American population. Mitt Romney, a Mormon who became the Republican nominee in 2012, seemed to prove the same point.
Windmueller echoed that. "A number of things have changed. The election of a black president has already broken the color line. . .. Everyone or anyone can see him or herself or her group in the political mix."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/florida-jewish-journal/jj-bernie-sanders-is-jewish-but-that-isn-t-convincing-jews-to-vote-for-him-20160308-story.html
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)...is offensive to me.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You say:
"Why aren't Sanders supporters asking Jewish voters to explain why they're supporting Hillary over Sanders? "
And yet... that is exactly what you are doing.
It would be funny if it didn't stink.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)by the way, using the same crappy anecdotal data, why are Jews voting for Trump?
Yes, I know a few.
Oh and i know of a word that is coming to mind, but given I expected this FROM CAMPAIGN operatives, I am all but shocked or surprised.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)m'kay... it is March... it is way past it's expiration point as valid data. But you knew that
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)sure... by all means, please proceed.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)so long ago that what I said is far more valid. YOU FRACKING KNOW THAT, or at least you should as working media. But hey, whatever, by the WAPO methods, why are Jews voting for Trump?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And instead of attacking me for pointing out the error of your using one of them in this case, you should acknowledge the point and move on.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and you are the one using all and none... and trying to divide people into nice little boxes, stacks as it were. So is the campaign by the way. I find it quite insulting to voters.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Back when Sanders had 100% name recognition in Vermont and 8% everywhere else.
Whatever seems to support the predetermined case, I guess.
Anyway, this is VERY important - how do people sorted into identity categories respond to the names of individuals.
Issues of actual concern to a polity are NOT important. No, no!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and the way of framing this is well... we are now seeing the leading edge of that. I wonder if the OP is a (lead) balloon as it were?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Or my Greeks? I am so devastated! No one's pandering to us before things get to New York, if ever. No doubt we'll discover from the WaPo or Journalist Steve Leser that 97.8% of Greeks support Clinton because of the long history of her close and loving association with them.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Thanks!!!!
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)She'll probably remember that. She went to the IMF and EU and said, "Hey guys, cut it out!"
Where was Sanders?!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)In New York I've spoken to two dozen Jewish people at least, and they're all for Bernie Sanders.
So, again, by WaPo method, how will Clinton recover from losing 100% of the Jewish vote?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Anyway, what matters is not why they might do that. What matters is to sort them into a box by identity and claim this identity is the most important determinant in their vote.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=658816
You are wrong about the direction both of these groups are headed from Tuesday forward. But that's not surprising.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)now spreading FUD at the WaPo. Perhaps she and Capehart will join forces for some of that hard-hitting journalism we've come to expect.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)its staring them in the face , but they just cant see the question you are posing.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)What a surprise. The eagerness to feed it is unsettling.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)She promises a more pro-Israel foreign policy, meaning a more aggressive approach to Iran, perhaps dismantling the nuclear agreement. This may explain why Sanders is making inroads with Arab and Muslim voters.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I believe the unwritten rule is that we must be the minority in questions to post about minority voting demographics and what that minority may or may not do, based on visible or written documentation. Otherwise, we will be guilty of x-splaining or talking out of turn. If not actually being accused of being racists or using minorities to benefit our candidate.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Or elsewhere?
I've heard him often address Islamophobia, racism but have yet to hear anything on antisemitism. Hopefully, I just missed it.
Thanks in advance.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Her campaign, and apparently her supporters, care nothing for facts and data-- just headlines. They gleefully and cynically use race/ethnicity/gender as a wedge, and giggle when called on it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and you absolutely Marr'ed the hell out of that.
(You and the Mordor gif has forever endeared you to my heart. I laugh about that every time I see your name, with joy, that we have such thoughtful and witty people on DU)
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)OutNow
(863 posts)My first idea was to put up a banner that said "another old Jewish socialist for Sanders" but my wife thought many folks wouldn't get it. Maybe I should revisit my first idea?
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Bernie. Paul Krugman is a notable example. There are several others I've noticed, certainly "establishment" media is not enthralled with Bernie.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...is now a podcaster. He's Jewish and supporting Bernie Sanders. I watch video excerpts from his show on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/SamSeder
Aerows
(39,961 posts)because I am not an anti-semitic asshole.
Why in the hell should we be responding to it at all on DU?
elleng
(130,865 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)in selecting a leader? You obviously thought it had enough merit to post the article and headline ... I just do not get it!
"Why aren't Sanders supporters asking Jewish voters to explain why they're supporting Hillary over Sanders?" WTF!
Answer is because we do not care what a person's religion is, or the color of their skin or who they sleep with at night.
Stop dividing people! This is really unbelievable, what century are we in?
Fearless
(18,421 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Dumb fucking article by yet another lame-ass WaPo "reporter." It's sad how far that paper has fallen...
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Individuals are more than their race or religion. They have MINDS that can THINK and make decisions based on their own particular circumstances. Blacks aren't a homogenous bloc, nor are Latinos, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, old white people or whatever.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I'm Jewish, and I support Bernie, but some Jews are afraid of having a Jewish president of the United States. As counterintuitive as that might seem, a lot of antisemitism throughout history has been driven by beliefs of Jews having too much control in government and finance. Some Jewish voters are understandably afraid that having a Jewish president will fuel that meme and increase antisemitism in the US. After seeing how much racism has been dredged up by having a black president I can't say I totally blame them.