2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary supporters: you will be sorry to hear that we will be here all the way to the Convention
and to November. This race is by no means over. Watch how things will change over the next few weeks. Say what you like but they will.
RandySF
(58,786 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)his liberal supporters and other not-so-liberal supporters are welcome to hang in.
It's certain behaviors I would be glad to see go. I'm tired of incessant insults, mischaracterizations, and outright lies about my candidate, my party, and liberals like me.
I'm tired of the profound contempt for the wishes, opinions, sacred beliefs, and even civil rights of every single person in America who is not with them. I'm now tired of the no-longer-surprising revelations of the destructive, absolutist, anti-democracy actions some people would be capable of or support in pursuit of their agenda.
I'm tired of the unending flow of right wing propaganda brought to DU and the constant attack, attack, attack, like a broken record skipping on Hillary 24/7/365. And I'm tired of the miserable, defeatist pessimism and unbalanced anti-Americanism of so many.
I'm tired of extremism of any type. When it's not irritating as hell or scary as hell, it's just boring as hell.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I can't believe some of them are actually saying we should leave their website, as if they own it, and the convention is over.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)If Hillary's campaign want support they are not going the right way about it.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Last I heard, this was the Bernie Underground. Which is a fitting name since the M$M, Wall Street, and the MIC hates Bernie and us, too.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)are figuring out that Conservative Democrats are not their friend. Fool us once with Obama and don't you dare try to fool us again with Clinton. We need change, not the bullcrap Obama change, but real change. We need to get our democracy back from the Ruling Class and their puppets.
ezgoingrl
(1,223 posts)This is awful and depressing.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)hillary is doing very well and i'm glad bernie is pulling her to the left.
of course after tonight she can mostly ignore him. he can't win now
bernie ran a great race. he did better than expected.
i felt the bern...it turned out to be the nachos i had for lunch
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)He can win. Hillary will start to dry up from now on.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)he'll win every primary with the kind of blowout numbers he needs.
feel the bern
turns out the burn was fixed with rolaids
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)That's some gop level "humor" their.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)dont quit your english class
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)but seriously, that is some real crap humor, worthy of gops, as in more combative than funny. Something political apparatchiks seem to have a problem maintaining is the ability to tell funny jokes that are also political.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)sorry if yer skin is thin
wasn't a political joke...was a pun. i felt the bern
fixed it with rolaids.
i guess i could have said. i felt the bern, turned out to be the chili i had at lunch.
feel the bern, then try preparation h medicated wipes
i actually thought that last was a bit disrespectful.
good luck in the rest of the primaries
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)Watching some stand up comedy might do it.
Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #48)
Post removed
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)You're the one bringing up the election, I'm just trying to help.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)drink it and be happy
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)But on a serious note, many people find that alcohol, in moderation, is relaxing. When relaxed people often tell better jokes.
Sore losers are one thing, but sore winner?
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)You shouldn't miss class, either.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)You gonna have your clever little jokes for us when Trump beats her butt?
griffi94
(3,733 posts)fixing it with rolaids
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)Repeating a joke is the best way to kill it, and that joke didn't have much life to start with.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Certainly just a personal point of view. But how about retaining or earning the enthusiasm of Bernie supporters for a change, instead of denigrating them, dismissing them, and disappointing them?
How about establishing a more Progressive Clinton legacy, even more distinguished and more clearly Progressive than Bill's.
How about being the female F.D.R.?
That's the vision I would hope to see, even work for, volunteer for, root for.
I don't expect it. I expect a pivot to the right any second now, and that is what is going to disappoint turnout and a whole generation of new voters, who will look for their Progressive politics somewhere else.
But it would be grand, and I would advise Hillary supporters to pass it on up high, if you like. Wouldn't it be great if we could actually have the solidity of the Hillary candidacy that supporters all like and yet still the exciting Progressivism of Bernie, whose stands she already has largely adopted.
Pipe dream, no doubt, but not impossible.
KPN
(15,642 posts)she's elected. Don't kid yourself. The system is rigged. Until we get big money out of it, always will be.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Many versions of success in life. If she wants to get elected, I'm suggesting one powerful way.
If she wants to go down in history as well-loved and an effective, popular President like FDR (had to actually enact a Constitutional amendment to stop people from voting for him), I'm suggesting the same powerful way.
I realize those who have supported her thus far and who fuel her money train. I realize what they want most likely in payment for their support. And yet, whose fun and whose life is it anyway?
If she wants legacy, I'm suggesting the clearest possible way.
KPN
(15,642 posts)... while i Realize it's highly likely at this point, I'm not willing to concede that ... let's just hope you are right. But I fear the worst ... and she has never given me one reason to feel otherwise.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)NBachers
(17,108 posts)I'm supporting Hillary, but I don't see us on different teams. You are pushing the election, the next administration, and the next Congress the way it should be pushed.
Thanks for everything, and I'm not being snarky.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)sure you can imagine what it would feel like if the shoe was on the other foot.
It's hard when you believe in something so much and you are not seeing the results you are hoping for.
nolabear
(41,960 posts)I hope we can hang onto that as we go forward.
villager
(26,001 posts)It's disheartening.
Though your comments are appreciated.
Regardless, if the next President lasts eight years, he-or-she will eventually be just a bad historical footnote unless they can transcend special interest politics and deal with the looming crisis of climate change.
We shall see....
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I don't hold a grudge over the bullshit some say. They likely are not the ones who will continue on.
I salute your commitment!
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)I'm a Clinton supporter and I want to see us all voting for congress and being more involved in the system too, voting in local elections Paying more attention. I am grateful for that part too. I also think that it has helped make limiting money in politics a more central issue. You know the Clintons and many other politicians got into politics after supporting Mcgovern. It would be great if Sanders inspires many people not only to vote, but to also actively shape it by being a part of it.
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)NBachers
(17,108 posts)And the first sarcastic "Kumbaya" poster gets placed on ignore. We got bigger shit to do.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)It's going to be amazing the stuff that will be in there.
NBachers
(17,108 posts)desmiller
(747 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)Will you push her in the right direction? In fact, what's the right direction? And how are you all going to push her and hold her accountable? If you are so concerned about needing us to push her in the right direction, why do/did you support her?
Seriously -- and pardon me if I sound skeptical. What do you say? Answer those questions and then maybe I can get beyond my skepticism.
NBachers
(17,108 posts)shit he pulled. But I stayed involved, advocated and voted, and supported him.
Barack Obama disappointed me over and over again, but I voted, contributed, and advocated for people & policies I believed in. And I still support Barack Obama.
Hillary or Sanders, whoever's elected, will have me slapping my forehead in disbelief at some of the bone-headed wrong shit they pull. Their behavior, in many cases, will not be good for my blood pressure.
This is just the nature of how it works. But we still have to use the tools our democracy gives us to steer policy, make our demands heard, and hold politicians accountable.
Here's the money quote: "use the tools our democracy gives us"
KPN
(15,642 posts)but I'm not sure you answered my questions. I did the same with Obama especially, but less with Clinton because I was busy being a dad. I don't buy it. I'm fed up with the sell out of middle Americans. Clinton's and Obama's economic policies both did exactly that -- and it's been going on for almost 40 years. ... I personally am fairly well off and financially secure fortunately -- but I see more and more who are not. And we're not doing a frigging thing to fix that. The 3rd Way is nothing but a Trojan Horse ... the same old "trickle down". If you share those feelings, why in the world would you vote for HRC over Bernie?
NBachers
(17,108 posts)at her since 1991 and is still kicking their collective asses.
I think she has the strength, the will, and the abilities to keep them in check. And that's the primary objective right now.
As civilization deteriorates, Republicans in power will only hasten and accelerate our extinction. And there's nothing we'll be able to do about it. Remember George W Bush?
A Clinton administration will contain elements that we can influence and work with. It's a better chance.
Bush made the world despise the USA and Americans. Barack Obama restored a lot of the world's respect. And I believe that the world stage will welcome Hillary Clinton. The world stage would probably welcome Bernie also, but I give Clinton the upper hand in both the national and international process.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I'm leaning. I'm not a Bernie detractor by any means, but I just see Clinton carrying out the duties of the President of the United States better. I know all the disastrous Hillary shit people have pointed out, and I'm not OK with it. But I know I'm never going to get a political basket arranged with everything just the way I like it.
I also believe that more women are needed in all levels of government. A Clinton Presidency will facilitate this, far into the future.
deerheadgal
(57 posts)You beautifully expressed my feelings! Hoping we can get through this without tearing each other apart!
KPN
(15,642 posts)have "the strength, the will, and the abilities to keep [the GOP] in check." That Hillary's a better politician ("upper hand in both the national and international process" . Oh, and he's not a woman!
Well, on everything but the woman part, I respectfully disagree and, frankly, believe you are fooling yourself. Not to mention you seem unfazed by their economic policy differences.
Why Bernie for me? Because there is no more crucial issue than correcting our current economic structure. Socio-economics is the foundation of, well, everything. There is no greater issue facing our country right now. In that regard, Hillary's a status quo candidate at a time when our nation as we know it is at great risk. The GOP curcus act should be enough evidence for anyone to understand that.
NBachers
(17,108 posts)I support and respect what you are doing, I also hope that you support and respect what I am doing, even if you don't agree with it. Let's keep moving on this and make things happen.
MuseRider
(34,106 posts)others could have stated that rather than starting the taunting the moment he got in. If only.
Thank you. To you I can say congratulations and feel like you will gracefully take that without rubbing our noses in it. It irks me that I have been unkind at times. My adulting skills have been challenged this season.
I don't want to be ignoring people but I have ignored even people who were friends. Sad. One comment like yours tends to make a world of difference.
Thank you and congratulations. May the best candidate win. We are in for the convention.
brooklynite
(94,511 posts)Sorry to disappoint you.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)we will have this conversation again in November.
brooklynite
(94,511 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)joshcryer
(62,270 posts)My job is done.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)...and to be honest, if it stays close, our race gets media attention. Otherwise, people forget we exist while the GOP marches toward a Trump nomination or a brokered convention.
Stuckinthebush
(10,844 posts)It's almost over.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Sanders should do pretty decently until mid to late April when NY and a bunch of the Mid Atlantic states vote.
Stuckinthebush
(10,844 posts)It just isn't probable.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)I agree Hillary will win -- I just think this will probably go until May. (June was probably overly optimistic). There are only 373 delegates in play between now and New York. Then 631 come in in the second half of April.
I'm going to guess a roughly 40% Hillary /60% Bernie split on the 373, followed by a roughly 60% Hillary/40% Bernie split on the 631. So that gets us to May with about 2030 delegates.
That's just my take -- your mileage may vary.
Stuckinthebush
(10,844 posts)I'll give you the actual "end" in May. The reality is that given the math there is no visible path for a Sanders win so the realistic end is now.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)To me, worst case for Hillary is she wins the nomination on 6/7 (California and New Jersey)
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Most of us are trying real hard to stay civil and not gloat. We all need to be united in the fall. Hillary is more than a million votes ahead of Sanders and just added a lot more pledged delegates (no total count yet).
I have no doubt that, barring some unforeseen event, Hillary will be the nominee. That doesn't mean that Sanders shouldn't stay until the convention. It's up to him.
MuseRider
(34,106 posts)It IS possible to be happy about winning without gloating. I appreciate that.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)The Golden Rule.......I didn't like it when I read the many gloating posts when Sanders did well in NH and MI. One has to be just as gracious when winning as in losing.
MuseRider
(34,106 posts)although I cannot be certain I held myself together. I don't even remember but the times I have been unkind bother me. For those my apologies. I think we all should do better. Still backing Bernie, still do not care for Hillary but we can disagree without being asses.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #24)
Post removed
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)To call her a Republican is an untrue smear. She may not be liberal enough for you but she is a Democrat. I am a lifelong Democrat and I know one when I see one.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Me thinks you focus on social issues and ignore economic and "empire" issues.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)and her true neoconservative "regime change" colors shone through.
I don't have a huge problem with her Senate voting record,
other than giving Bush a big fat green light for the Iraq war,
but her record as SOS is much more instructive of the types
of things she may do if she becomes commander-in-chief.
On Libya, Afghanistan, Syria... she was the HAWK in this administration.
In Honduras, she helped to legitimize a right-wing coup government who illegally deposed the elected president, at the behest of right-wing Republican senators, no less-- a government which is now repressing and murdering its own people.
On foreign policy and as Secretary of State,
we may as well have had Dick Cheney running the office,
and little to choose between them.
If she becomes President, those "3 AM phone calls" will likely be placed
to Henry Kissinger and George W. Bush.
If you 'know a Democrat when you see one',
maybe you haven't looked close enough,
or maybe you're just blissfully ignorant of her neoconservative foreign policy proclivities.
Or, maybe you approve of a neoconservative war-hawk foreign policy for Democrats?
vintx
(1,748 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)support of the Left. You know those of us that you've held in contempt. As far as being a true DEmocrat, Sanders was upholding Democratic principles while Clinton was helping REPUBLICANS sell their war.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)the left. They think the "great Democratic party" under DWS, election loser extraordinaire, is going to sweep to victory in November and bring lots of down ticket candidates along without our help.
Good luck with that.....they'll need it.
KPN
(15,642 posts)It serves no useful purpose.
Stuckinthebush
(10,844 posts)Meanwhile we will be working toward the GE win.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Stuckinthebush
(10,844 posts)Yes, yes. That's what we will do. Bash the left. Damn left.
My gods I don't have the strength to put up with this silliness.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)brandy, I stashed,.. maybe it will help with this headache I have.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)tritsofme
(17,377 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I'm not in the habit of falling in line and ignoring real issues with a candidate just because they have a D by their name.
mvd
(65,173 posts)MO = another virtual tie, though it would have been nice to win one. But Bernie should hang in there for the West Coast states, where he could do big margins. Depressing night though because I don't get the Hillary inspiration one bit. The choice is just so clear to me.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)oasis
(49,379 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)I'm glad to see this, Rosa! I've watched this from the beginning - Sanders came from nowhere with every odd possible stacked against him - and still being denied the media coverage that would ensure millions more would be able to actually see and compare his message. Clinton started with all the millionaire/billionaire backers, the non-stop media fawning and a famous surname she's been campaigning on. She started with everything - he started with nothing. She's winning states posters here said she'd blow out just by a hair. He's done all of this by using every ounce of energy he has to get people to know him and what he stands for - they are, and it takes time when you're all but blacked out of the MSM. He still has it ....... and her 'issues' are also getting more well known by the day. My fingers are crossed for you and I won't uncross them until the Convention and November (unless they fall off by then).
Good for you and all who believe in his message.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Got a feeling Berners will be sticking with Bernie as long as he wants us. Bernie and Berners are making history ... and we will prevail, maybe not in 2016, but in the end.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)we need to shape Congress and we need to start now.
JSup
(740 posts)Not sorry to hear that at all; the squeaky wing gets the grease, if you will, and the Party moves closer to that wing via its agenda.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)There are some great sites we stay connected with, they represent Hillary's strength & the unity of our great Democratic Party & the work we do for down ticket candidates. The President's strength of accomplishment comes from the Senate & House .
Hillary contributes much to bring other Dems with her to DC.
That is the only way to end the RW gridlock in DC.
There's a lot we Hillary supporters do outside of this site to get the RW Koch purchased TeaParty out of power.
Enjoy DU.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)done a bang up job at losing elections and turning Congress over to the Repukes. Make no mistake about it. Voters are wanting to shake things up, and you are pushing the status quo with a candidate less trusted and more reviled than any other. You don't care? Good luck with that attitude in November.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Thanks.
I'll proudly stand with the Democratic Party.
What's bernie done to get Dems elected so we could defeat the RW? Where was he in the mid-terms when the RW took the Senate & House?
I'll stand with the only Dem in the race who helps get other Dems elected.
What's bernie done in this election to help Dem campaigns?
Z e r o.
I take this candidate, thank you Hillary.
Nite all.
Nailzberg
(4,610 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)We'll just fight to win it outright.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)But if he keeps the negativity towards Hillary going, trying to weaken her for the GE, then yes, I would have a problem with that
LisaM
(27,803 posts)Why does this meme keep getting flogged? I was proud of Hillary for fighting to the end in 2008 and I would expect the same in this cycle. Please stop with this wrong assumption.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Feel The BERN!!!
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)My guess is Sanders will drop out on April 26th. Even Clinton dropped out in '08 in spite of that race being incredibly close. After tonight, Sanders probably won't do as well over the next 8 contests as planned. And then there's New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)That could be a problem. Yikes
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/14/bernie-sanders-potentially-illegal-campaign-contributions
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Mathematically he can't win...and we need to work to take the House, Senate and Presidency...we need those courts.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...I think he can justify staying in the race a while longer. He could still do fairly well between now and New York. But after NY, MD and PA, I expect Clinton's lead to be overwhelming.
Hekate
(90,660 posts)FreedomRain
(413 posts)Going all the way to the convention is smart even if the loss is a foregone conclusion, for many reasons. Here are some:
- Influence on Party platform statements.
- Insurance in case of some political or personal disaster to the front runner, at least we will have a nominee ready to go.
- Airtime for the candidate or cause for future and down-ticket contests.
- Airtime for the front runner of the party that they wouldn't have otherwise; having a foil would give the media a reason to give the frontrunner another chance to reach undecideds.
- Using up campaign donations in the manner best fitted to fulfill the implied contract with--and the intentions of--the donors.
And while tonight was a setback, that's only because he didn't clinch it yet, as many of us hoped.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)I am sorry to hear that indeed. I do not want to see Trump or Cruz become president. You only hurt the Democratic nominee by doing this. I am hoping that Bernie will think of the country and not his personal ambition and suspend his campaign. It is the right thing to do at this moment. As Obama said...it is the math people...delegate math.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)But thanks for playing. Nobody is hurting anybody by standing proudly beside the candidate of their choice until the convention in Philadelphia this summer. It's only March and Sanders supporters are standing with him until the end. Personal ambition has nothing to do with it. Bernie's in it for us, not himself.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)It's healthy for the party, it helps to keep the discussion grounded, and it keeps the Democratic candidate in the media, when otherwise it would be Trump 24/7.
K/R
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)This fight has hardly begun.
senz
(11,945 posts)Our cause is democratic, inclusive, and central to the founding principles of America. Their cause is destructive to democracy and contemptuous of the people.
Of course we're staying with it. Of course.