Can everybody, at long last, stop asserting that Sanders is "pulling Clinton to the left"? Isn't it

[Gene Debs]

time for that absurd notion to die? Does anyone—ANYONE—truly believe that anything more than her rhetoric is being pulled to the left?

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. Wishful thinking. People who really believe it don't understand Clinton.

Which is surprising because... as politicians go ... she's *pretty* ez to understand.

She's practically a stereotype.

[jfern]

7. Exactly, with Obama there was some hope he'd be a good President

With Hillary, you know exactly what you're getting if you've bothered to do basic research.

[Mister Ed]

2. Pulling the expectations of voters to the left...

...is a better way to describe what he's been doing.

[Hortensis]

5. Yes. This. And that opens doors of opportunity

for politicians, not just Hillary, but across the country. They now know they have support for many things they would like to do.

Pollsters and other political researchers weren't asking the right questions.

[Armstead]

11. There has been much support for that for years

Perhsps a large majority if you count all the "I agree with Bernie but we must be pragmatic" voters.

But that is not who Democrsts care about any more.

I fully expect a Clinton 2 administration would be just as tepid and vacuous and behind the scenes destructive to the interests of 80 percebt of the people as the Democrats of the last 35 years have been.

They are an embedded elite beholden to the.Big Corop and Big Money Crew and they are now breathing a sigh of relief because they pulled off the big con once again.

[Hortensis]

15. Yada, yada, Armstead. Let's cut this one off at the start.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

3. She was already on the left.

If you look back over DU posts a few years ago, you'll see a lot of admiration for her.

Then the primary happened, and a lot of DUers managed to convince themselves that they'd been at war with EastAsia all along.

[Lucinda]

10. This ^

[Armstead]

12. No I think like a lot of people....

...lIke me who think she's okay in limited doses, but not as President.

[Nye Bevan]

16. I know. Funny how the IWR-voting, NAFTA-supporting, gay marriage opposing Kerry was great,

in the eyes of most DUers, but Hillary somehow became evil incarnate.

[Vattel]

18. Kerry and Clinton share many of the same failures.

[RobinA]

34. I Find It Interesting

how Hillary is suddenly evil but Obama is not. At least not to the extent the Hillary currently is. Some of the charges against her are just silly. I don't understand why people can't be for one candidate without sliming the other. I suppose it's some form of self-validation. I'm for X, so Y must be the scum of the earth.

[gollygee]

17. She's not as far left as Bernie

Which means she's a "fascist" or a "center-right Republican" now that Bernie has been involved. We have such black and white thinking at DU sometimes. Bernie being more left does not make Hillary a Republican.

[Gene Debs]

19. Seriously? Left of what? Barry Goldwater?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. Left of most or nearly all Democratic presidential nominees to date, depending on how you count.

?w=575

[Marr]

25. Hillary Clinton is to the left Carter. lol, right.

[MoonRiver]

22. +1000

[Lizzie Poppet]

40. On many, many issues, yes.

On the issues her corporate paymasters actually give a damn about? Nope.

[pdsimdars]

4. When they say "pulling the Democratic Party to the left"

I agree, rhetoric only. Unless by "left" they mean, removing rule and letting unlimited donations to the Democratic party in again and supporting PayDay lenders over the public . . if THAT'S what they mean by left, that's a word I've misunderstood all my life.

[jfern]

6. She is feinting left

And no one should be dumb enough to believe it. The US Chamber of Commerce President says he fully expects Hillary to support TPP again when the time is right.

[BlueCaliDem]

31. "he fully expects Hillary to support TPP again when the time is right. " I hope so.

What anti-trade people fail to understand is, we are part of a global economy. Rules and laws have to be in place in order to make it fair for all countries utilizing international trade. I would rather President Obama negotiate the best deal possible that would benefit U.S. workers than another financially powerful country like China write the rules for us.

Another thing anti-trade people forget is...trade deals will be created and will commence with or without the U.S. Even if we were to overturn NAFTA, CAFTA, and other trade deals for the U.S., those will continue in other countries because, well, they're sovereign nations as well.

[jfern]

39. We can have a global economy without absolute terribleness such as TPP

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

8. She was for the TPP, now is against it.

And if elected, will somehow be FOR it again. Because it's good for corporations.

Sanders is making Clinton "head-fake" left.

[djean111]

9. That was always a big fucking cynical joke.

Hillary would be a lot further to the right than Obama.
She is very accomplished and smooth liar, though. SOS experience, I guess. Anyway, at least I don't have to read or watch or listen!

[Gene Debs]

20. Gotta disagree with you on the "accomplished and smooth" part—I think she's one of the

clumsiest liars I've ever seen. She regularly spits out the most fantastic, demonstrably false whoppers that are evident as such the moment the words leave her mouth, and she does it with an apparent cluelessness as to how blatantly obvious it is.

[djean111]

21. Actually, you are right - I was being too kind. n/t

[vintx]

47. e.g. the WHOPPER about landing under sniper fire

[Vinca]

13. He has dragged her to the left, although no one expects her to stay there.

Example: she's been touting graduating from college debt free. Curious. Apparently, if tuition at public schools isn't free, money is going to come out of the sky on a flaming pie to pay for it. Her biggest problem - or, rather, our biggest problem - is she flip flops depending on how the wind is blowing so you really don't know what you're voting for in November. Her best bet is to run on keeping Trump out of office.

[BlueCaliDem]

32. And she's been dragging him to the left on gun safety laws and immigration. Fancy that.

eom

[Vinca]

36. The only thing they differed on re guns is whether or not manufacturers could be sued

for crimes committed by people who legally purchased a gun. As for immigration, I don't think anyone could be to the left of Bernie. What on earth are you referring to?

[Lizzie Poppet]

41. Precisely.

And his position on that aspect is the correct one.

[gollygee]

14. I think he'll drag the whole party to the left

We've been getting pulled to the right. This is how it happens - more left-leaning (or right-leaning) people do well in elections and the party responds. Bernie did very well and the party will respond. I do think Hillary has already responded to some extent but it'll be more noticeable after future elections. Bernie's success will inspire other more progressive candidates to run for office, which will continue movement to the left.

[gcomeau]

28. He tried.

But the Clinton Campaign and all her supporters saddled up the team of horses and pulled the other way in response.

Single Payer? That's a horrible idea! Progressive social programs? "Free this and free that and free everything" give everyone a pony.... <sneer>.


That's what the Democratic Party establishment wants to put forward this year. And her supporters are fucking giddy about it.

[All in it together]

53. There's a huge response of "no!" to Bernie supporters from many establishment Dems

Just because the people want Bernie, that doesn't mean the party establishment will listen.
In fact it's more like a hand to our faces. They know how to manipulate the Democratic Party rules to get Hillary nominated.
We need to get involved and make the Democratic Party democratic again.

[KitSileya]

24. She pulled him to the left on guns and immigration.

So if there's left-pulling going on, it's quid pro quo.

[BlueCaliDem]

33. Thank you! They seem to forget those facts - facts that actually have life and death implications

for millions of people in our country...particularly PoC, but also Anglo-Americans (Sandy Hook children).

[gcomeau]

26. Attacking Single Payer is her rhetoric going left?

Characterizing progressive social programs as "Free this and free that and free everything" in tones of derision that would be at home in the mouth of Rush Limbaugh is her rhetoric being pulled to the left?


She is nothing but a rightward move. Period. She's not even really trying to hide it and her supporter couldn't give less of a fuck.

[bkkyosemite]

27. She will never go to the left kissses Bush, kisses Wall Street, kisses Saudi Arabia

kisses Kissinger .............

[Jefferson23]

29. Only in a pandering sense..wait until you hear her message for the GE should she win the nom.

It will be interesting.

[Maedhros]

30. The only people who say that are Hillary supporters, and they only say it to maintain the illusion

that they are liberals.

[Billsmile]

35. Issues, the MSM, Bernie, & Hillary

When Sanders was considering running for president he indicated that he would do so to promote conversation on a variety of important issues that weren't being covered by the MSM. I know this is true because he said so on the Thom Hartmann radio program last year.

As a presidential candidate Bernie has talked about issues on national TV that no other candidate would dare bring to light (TPP & trade, climate change, wealth inequality, Citizens United, Wall St. regulating Congress, etc).

Part of his "more debates" strategy was to increase the media megaphone for these issues. And this is partly why Bernie ran as a Democrat. He knew that if he ran as an Independent there would be absolutely no media coverage on these important issues affecting the American people.

DW-NOMINATE claims Hillary Clinton was the 11th most liberal Senator while in office. Sanders was #1.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/3/31/1374629/-Hillary-Clinton-Was-the-11th-Most-Liberal-Member-of-the-Senate

[demwing]

37. The only thing being pulled to the left

is Hillary's jawbone as she tries to speak from both sides of her mouth.

[SamKnause]

56. ...

[seabeyond]

38. Clinton kept Sanders honest way more than he pulled her to the left.

And she pulled him to the left about as often. I agree. It was silly from the start adn even more silly today.

[Gene Debs]

44. The woman who lies as easily as she breathes kept Bernie Sanders honest. Riiiiiiiiiight.

[seabeyond]

45. Being the responsible voter that I am, I have researched all these lies and consistently find the

lie is accusing Clinton of lying. I watch the lies created by the rw'er and Sanders supporters as we speak. It is trippy to watch. Clinton is not a Saint, but a mere politician. Sanders is not a Saint, but a mere politician. We believe Clinton does nothing but lie and Sanders never lies. Neither are true.

[Gene Debs]

46. Give me a break. Hillary Clinton, without hesitation, unloads glaringly obvious whoppers to entire

rooms full of journalists where literally everyone present knows it's a demonstrable, provable lie the moment the words leave her mouth, and she apparently has no shame about it; you have to wonder why she goes to the trouble of lying when literally EVERYONE knows it's a lie! Her lies are so brazen and artless it's literally breathtaking to behold. There's a reason why poll after poll after poll shows that a very sizeable majority of Americans consider her fundamentally dishonest and untrustworthy.

[seabeyond]

48. What I appreciate is she takes her time giving a measured answer.

Works works hard at giving a through well thought out answer. That would be the grown up in the room> We can certainly say things about Sanders explosive comments that are not anywhere near the truth.

[Gene Debs]

49. Oh, come on. What you see as "takes her time giving a measured answer" is actually the laborious

process of pre-focus-group testing the answer in her head, so she can meticulously hand-craft her response to suit whatever demographic group she's trying to pander to at a given moment, all the while juggling that with an awareness that she's got to somehow make what she's about to say match up with what she said two days ago. It's not thoughtfulness, it's cunning. You know why Bernie Sanders always gives pointed, direct answers? Because he just says what he thinks. His message is consistent across all demographics, and has been for forty years. So there's no need to perform mental alterations to each answer before speaking.

[seabeyond]

50. I mean what I say. You do not get to change my words. That simple. We disagree. More agree with

me hence, her having over 2.7 million more votes than Sanders.

Proof is in the puddin'

[Gene Debs]

52. We'll see.

[seabeyond]

54. Yes. We will.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Why should she need to be pulled to the left? Didn't she claim to be a progressive?

Or, was the claim to be centrist? Moderate? Liberal?

Evolution has no direction.

[Jim Lane]

43. I agree that Clinton herself is hopeless, BUT...

I also agree with those who say that the Sanders candidacy has, at a minimum, pulled the national conversation to the left.

I say "hopeless" because I don't think this whole campaign will have much influence on how Clinton will govern if she's nominated and elected. Nevertheless, while noting that, let's also note what Sanders has achieved.

First, he's helped Clinton. It was always inevitable that the Democratic nominee, whoever he or she may be, would be attacked by the GOP as a socialist. Now, if Clinton is nominated, she can appeal to the considerable bloc of woolly-minded voters who don't focus on policy details but who think the truth must always be somewhere in the middle. To many of them, the visible spectrum will be Sanders on the left, Trump/Cruz on the right, with Clinton in that nice warm purple space (blecccch) in the middle. In that vein, when the Republicans bring out their hackneyed old charge of socialism, Clinton can now respond, "You call me a socialist? Ha! I beat a socialist to get here!"

More important is that Sanders has shown far more strength than anyone expected. Make the worst-case reasonable assumptions for his results from here on out, and it's still the case that a septuagenarian small-state Jew, one never elected as a Democrat, has won several states and hundreds of delegates while running against a candidate who's had the backing of the party establishment and elected officials to an extent rarely seen. He's done so based primarily on the power of progressive ideas. (The last time the party elites were so solidly behind a nonincumbent candidate was 2000. That year's challenger, Bill Bradley, didn't have that dreaded "S" word to deal with; he was an elected Democrat. He had the additional advantages of sports stardom and better hair. Nevertheless, he didn't win a single primary. The Sanders insurrection against the elites has been, by comparison, a smashing success.)

The important "pulling to the left" effect will not be on the Clinton 2016 campaign, but on some downticket races this year and in 2018, and on the elections of 2020 and beyond. Politicians at all levels have been shown that millions of voters have had it with politics as usual, and that quite a few of them will resist the siren song of Trump (blame the Mexicans! blame the Muslims!) and will instead support a candidate who offers real, substantive change.

[NowSam]

51. Just a jump to the left and a step to the right

and no. I don't believe anything she says.

[arcane1]

55. It's an open admission that her words are nothing but words.

People need to not forget that.