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Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:17 PM

Gandhi Power

“Mr. Moderator, brother Lomax, brothers and sisters, friends and enemies: I just can’t believe everyone in here is a friend, and I don’t want to leave anyone out.”
-- Malcolm X; Cleveland, Ohio; April 3, 1964.



Good evening, DU Community:

I wasn’t surprised when, after a few OP/threads in the past few days where supporters of each candidate were engaging in civil, respectful discussions, that there appeared to be an increased hostility on DU:GDP today. That’s an expected and perhaps natural reaction. We do not need to let it become a problem, or cause to discontinue sincere efforts at dialogue.

While there is always the possibility of “trolls” etc attempting to disrupt meaningful discussions between Democrats, I don’t think that is a wide-spread problem here. Every so often, someone will discover a “liberal” posting on right-wing sites, mocking DU, but that is fine. As Minister Malcolm used to say, everyone -- good and bad -- is drawn to hearing the truth …..that’s why “spies” attended his speeches. But good people are rarely, if ever, even mildly interested in hearing purposeful lies.

In my opinion, the biggest distinction among the supporters of both campaigns can be summed-up in a single word: values. This explains why both sides can watch the same Democratic debate, and walk away with 100% different perceptions of what they just saw and heard. It is not that anyone -- either the supporters of Hillary or Bernie -- are lying. We just exist, and seek to exist, in very different worlds.

At this point, again in my humble opinion, the only real “common ground” that some of us share is our worst enemy -- the America that could result if Donald Trump or Ted Cruz is elected in November. There are times when a common enemy is enough to get most people to join together in common cause. There are other times in our history when differences in values prevented people with a common enemy from uniting: the example of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, in the early 1960s, comes to mind.

Obviously, I can only speak for myself, but some of the values that I associate with the Sanders revolution are found within quotes from Mahatma Gandhi. Thus, I’ll share a quote that I believe connects Bernie’s campaign with that of Senator Robert F. Kennedy’s presidential run in 1968. Senator Kennedy had undergone a transformation after his brother’s assassination. A central feature in this was RFK’s ability to recognize the value of the poor and marginalized citizens.

Peace,
H2O Man


“To see the universal and all-pervading Spirit of Truth face to face, one must be able to love the meanest of creation as oneself. A person who aspires after that cannot afford to keep out of any field of life. That is why my devotion to Truth has drawn me into the field of politics.”
-- Gandhi

32 replies, 1724 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gandhi Power (Original post)
H2O Man Mar 2016 OP
cosmicone Mar 2016 #1
H2O Man Mar 2016 #2
malthaussen Mar 2016 #29
Seeinghope Mar 2016 #3
H2O Man Mar 2016 #5
tk2kewl Mar 2016 #26
marions ghost Mar 2016 #4
H2O Man Mar 2016 #6
Wilms Mar 2016 #7
H2O Man Mar 2016 #9
In_The_Wind Mar 2016 #12
noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #8
H2O Man Mar 2016 #10
MohRokTah Mar 2016 #11
panader0 Mar 2016 #15
H2O Man Mar 2016 #17
Dem2 Mar 2016 #13
H2O Man Mar 2016 #18
kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #14
H2O Man Mar 2016 #19
kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #22
marions ghost Mar 2016 #27
kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #16
H2O Man Mar 2016 #20
marions ghost Mar 2016 #21
kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #23
Punkingal Mar 2016 #24
H2O Man Mar 2016 #25
longship Mar 2016 #28
Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #30
malthaussen Mar 2016 #31
geek tragedy Mar 2016 #32

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:22 PM

1. Thanks for spelling Gandhi correctly. n/t

 

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Response to cosmicone (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:25 PM

2. I hear you.

I think he was important enough to learn what his name is, and how it's spelled! (grin)

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Response to cosmicone (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:52 PM

29. Before reading this thread...

... I was unaware that it was so commonly misspelled. There's a moral there, somewhere.

-- Mal

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:26 PM

3. I really so agree with you on this

 

I have just been afraid to mention Gandhi because I felt like people would really go off on that one but that is how special this time and this man is for us right now.

Thank you for your post!

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Response to Seeinghope (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:29 PM

5. Thank you!

I have never cared if people dislike what I have to say, or who I quote. But I definitely agree that some of our friends here won't be pleased with my identifying Bernie's campaign with Gandhi's.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:29 PM

4. Gandhi

would have been for Bernie Sanders.

Of that I'm sure. He liked truth.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:30 PM

6. Yes, definitely.

As would King.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:35 PM

7. As would have RFK. n/t

 

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Response to Wilms (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:42 PM

9. And John Lennon.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:49 PM

12. I agree with you.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:42 PM

8. You Did It Again

Another excellent post, H2O Man. Thank you.

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Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:43 PM

10. Thanks!

There had been enough acrimony here today. I thought this would be something positive that everyone might enjoy.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:45 PM

11. Ghandi is about the last person I'd compare Sanders to.

 

You and I have opposite views on the morality of Sanders.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:00 PM

15. see post # 1

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Response to panader0 (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:14 PM

17. It's interesting.

In the many decades that I've studied Gandhi, I've never encountered a person who could not spell his name, who was able to engage in a serious discussion about him. It tends to suggest a lack of respect, like if one couldn't spell "Jesus" or "Martin Luther King."

However, the the positive side, neither education or intelligence are required for an individual to grasp the meaning and power of that Truth that Gandhi sought after. Indeed, as he noted, the poor and marginalized had a greater capacity for understanding, and living, Truth.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:56 PM

13. I like Bernie Sanders. I do not care for many of Bernie's supporters.

--Mahatma Dem2

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:15 PM

18. Very good.

(I attempt to like everyone. To each, her/his own.)

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 09:58 PM

14. Thank you, H2O Man! Peace Maker we need. Peace Maker we be.

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:19 PM

19. Thanks, Friend!

You know, your post has me thinking .....the Peace Maker's campaign to unite people might be an interesting topic here. Do you think that I should try that as an OP?

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:41 PM

22. Yes, I think so....

What resonates for me with Sanders' campaign is that he is creating an alternative narrative that is different from our long habituated violent war mongering system in this country. He is pointing another possibility. Changing the system from within, by creating justice and fulfillment within the domestic environment.... so that our attention does not always have to seek out "enemy" and "target" outside....

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 11:55 AM

27. good words

We need to become immune to the forces within who are constantly defining our enemies for us.



Who do we call the enemy?
My children, my children
The enemy is poverty
and the wall keeps out the enemy
That's why we build the wall

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:03 PM

16. Awake from your slumber And get 'em with the numbers


Patti Smith Group - Gandhi



I had a dream Mr. King If you'll beg my pardon
I was trespassing A sacred garden
And the blossoms fell And they dropped like candy
And nature cried Gandhi Gandhi
And nature cried Gandhi Gandhi

When he was a boy He was afraid of the dark
His mother would fast And pray at his feet
And the lamp burned as he slept Slept as he dreamed
He was dreaming of his sisters Dressed in white muslin
Dressed in white muslin Dancing in a ring
He was afraid of the dark And the lamp burned
And his mother fasted And prayed as he slept
Dreaming of blossoms They were burning his throat
He had eaten flowers Fell burning
Flowers fell burning From the young girls' hair
He was whispering Into his god's ear
Let the children be so Let the children be so
And the lamplight flickered flickered And his mother withered like Job
And he lay there dreaming And the blossoms fell
And Tilak's trumpet Proceeded to call
And the blossoms fell And they dropped like candy
And the people cried Gandhi Gandhi...

I had a dream Mr. King If you'll beg my pardon
I was trespassing The sacred garden
And the blossoms fell Well, they dropped like candy
And nature cried Gandhi Gandhi

Hey little man Awake from your slumber
Get 'em with the numbers Get 'em with the numbers

He was frail and shy And the cast of his mind
Was mercurial Was mercurial
As the sacred verbs Scrawled
In the dust On the floor
On the floor Long live revolution
And the spinning wheel And a handful of salt
And a handful of salt The untouchables
Dropped like candy They called to him
Gandhi Gandhi The children of god
With hands full of candy They called to him
Gandhi Gandhi Feel our woes
Man of the giving Rejoin the living
Rejoin the living Awake from the net
Where you've been sleeping And their climbing climbing
The flowing hair And the golden flowers
Of the young girls Well they dropped all around
They dropped like candy And people cried
Gandhi Gandhi Awake little man
Awake from your slumber And get 'em with the numbers
Get 'em with the numbers

One Two Three Four hundred
Thousand million people
People People...

Awake from your slumber Awake from your slumber
Awake from your slumber And get 'em with the numbers
Get 'em with the numbers Long live revolution
And the spinning wheel Awake awake
Is the mighty appeal Oh, people awake
Awake from your slumber And get 'em with the numbers
Get 'em with the numbers

I had a dream Mr. King
If you'll beg my pardon I was trespassing
The sacred garden And the blossoms fell
Dropped like candy And nature called
Gandhi Gandhi Gandhi Gandhi

Awake from your slumber Awake from your slumber
And get 'em with the numbers Get 'em with the numbers

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:23 PM

20. Very good!

Thank you.

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:41 PM

21. Wow

that is powerful. I vaguely remember it.

Thx for posting.

Get em with the numbers!.......

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #21)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:44 PM

23. I love Patti...

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:59 PM

24. Nice OP...

I've often thought Bernie was similar to Ghandi, and to Dr, King. I believe Dr. King had a profound impact on Bernie. I have never heard that officially, but he speaks about the things Dr, King dd so often. I am surprised more people don't notice that.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #24)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 11:13 AM

25. Thanks!

The Sanders revolution offers us a non-violent method of instituting social justice.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:35 PM

28. Thanks, H2O Man.

R&


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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:55 PM

30. "In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place" -Gandhi

 

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:57 PM

31. As to non-violence...

... I raised this point elsewhere, but I'll repeat it here: arguably, non-violence only works if the oppressor is capable of shame. This may not be true of fascists, who seem to love psychopaths and aspire to psychopathy themselves. Now, the absolute number of psychopathic fascists may be quite small, but if they are willing to be violent enough, is it not likely that all non-violence will lead to is mass graves?

-- Mal

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:07 PM

32. I don't associate Gandhi, or MLK Jr, or Malcolm X, with any politician

 

or political campaign.

Just as I don't associate Jesus, or Mohammed, or Buddha with political candidates or elections.

They were activists and leaders who transcended partisan considerations.

Robert F. Kennedy, serving in John F. Kennedy's administration, approved wiretaps on MLK Jr. That's the difference between politicians and transcendent activists, right there.

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