2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumCould Bernie have won, or was it over before it even started?
It's a tough question, but I'm leaning towards the latter. I just don't think Bernie had the breadth of experience and knowledge to every beat Hillary, and also his politics are too far left for a party that strongly approves of Obama's job as president.
There were certainly mistakes that Bernie made. His tone-deafness on race, his failure to come up with any foreign policy outlook. And the fact that when he finally gave some detailed policy proposals, they were based on Madoff-esque accounting.
On the other hand, if Bernie hadn't made those mistakes, and made this a closer race, then Hillary would have dropped her kid-gloves approach and done a more forceful job of pointing out his glaring weaknesses. Part of the reason it's as even close as it is is that she ran a positive campaign, with her eyes on the general, and just basically let Bernie do his thing.
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)the nomination. He's done much better than I expected, but he won't be the nominee. I hope very much that he continues to serve in the Senate, where he serves as the conscience of that body. He may decide to retire, though, after his current term.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)gracefully and help Hillary win, that would increase his influence in the Senate, and he could be a powerful progressive voice. I think retiring now would be wasting some of the political capital that he has built up just by doing so well.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)transitioning our country more toward the European socialist model and utilizing corporations in some form of partnership with government.
serbbral
(260 posts)LexVegas
(6,059 posts)astrophuss42
(290 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Although he has done much better than I had expected. His only hope would have been some sort of scandal to take Hillary out.. and even then someone like Biden would have jumped in.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Bernie had his run but he's in a huge hole now. Barring some new horrific scandal Hillary's got this.
I know you guys hate math but there really is no plausible way Bernie catches up.
Try it yourself...
http://54.85.212.73/demdelcalc/
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Hillary supporters have labored valiantly to maintain her "inevitability", but we are reaching the tipping point.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Most know she will be the candidate with a few exceptions who post on Democratic Underground.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)The last 3 polls have Bernie at either 44% and 45%.
After his next burst of wins.....He will rise to 50% or higher.
The synergy of the poll rise and the wins will seriously damage her "inevitability".
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I suspect they are still polling states that have already completed primaries/caucuses. You should just focus on the upcoming states. Some look good for Bernie but most are going to go for Hillary or simply a draw which is really all Hillary needs at this point.
Bernie needs blowout wins to catch up. Splitting delegates isnt good enough.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)you will see.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)if he is going to have any realistic chance to win. Not going to happen... short of being indicted or some other major scandal.
The best Bernie can hope for is a prime speaking spot at the convention where he will endorse Hillary for President.
Cheers!
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)on a number of different fronts.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Try to come up with a realistic scenario where Bernie catches up..
http://54.85.212.73/demdelcalc/
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Bernie started at <5% and will end just under 50%.
Unfortunately, for Bernie, many in the party are just too loyal to the Clintons.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)We will need that in the general.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Not the 50%+ of Dems that are loyal.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)And the Democrats and Republicans are moving further to the left-right respectively overall.
So, I think Bernie is the right candidate for this time.
The exit polls this cycle also show a huge increase in Democrats identifying as "liberal".
These are all good signs (well, the increasing polarization is worrisome), if Bernie was younger, more well-spoken, more appealing to look at, who knows what this primary would look like?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)and be a good foot-soldier for the Hillary administration.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...possibly too late to have broken through MSM inevitability blockkade, even if he had weakened and taken the easy money his opponent did.
The money thing, perhaps his greatest weakness, is also the source of his magic powers. Most Dems, alas, are still following the money.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Bernie Sanders Calls Federal Reserve "Socialism for the Rich" After $16 Trillion Secret Bail-Outs, Including Foreign Banks.
Sen. Hillary Clinton didn't.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/10609-bernie-sanders-calls-federal-reserve-socialism-for-the-rich-after-16-trillion-secret-bail-outs-including-foreign-banks
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to campaigning.
He would have had to realize that black and Latino voters would not buy into the same arguments that won over young white voters. Precisely because they have a different history and a different perspective on politics, policy and change in this country.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)artyteacher
(598 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)He has many vulnerabilities that she has not exploited. She has always kept her eye on the GE. Another reason I respect her
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It would have made getting the party united more challenging. She was able to simply remain above the fray.
Now if only Bernie would rise above the fray and stop the attacks...
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Hillary started at 60% and will end just over 50% (-8)
Maybe you should ask why Hillary lost support and can never get above 60% within her own party.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Not surprised you wouldn't see it.
astrophuss42
(290 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts).... calling for a primary of Obama, followed by three plus years complaining about Obama, had instead put their time and effort into building up a set of sufficiently liberal candidates for 2016.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)RandySF
(58,758 posts)He did join the party only recently.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Think about it, even a sitting Vice President was afraid to challenge her. This has been rigged in her favor internally from the start.
If you can't acknowledge that, then you just aren't being honest with yourself.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)RandySF
(58,758 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)It's sounding less and less likely. Word is the 150 FBI investigators are confident Director Comey is going to recommend charges being filed. It remains to be seen if Obama and Lynch follow through, but if they stonewall, several FBI investigators have said they'll go public with the evidence. That will not only pour gasoline on the GOP firestorm, but also make a shitshow out of Obamas remaining months in office, when he'd prefer to be polishing up his legacy.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)If Bernie just loses black voters by 60-40 or even 70-30 instead of 80-20 or 90-10 in some areas (60-40 nationally means he's losing the Southern states by "only" 10-20 points, winning the Rust Belt states seeing 70-30 won him Michigan, and is probably no more than 100 delegates behind at this point), he's easily within striking distance. That's just ONE factor. I bet you the John Lewis shit probably lost him this primary. If not that, then the Reddit/4chan-tier BernieBro shit which so many Sanders' supporters refuse to admit is a thing. That alone probably lost him 3-5% points with POC nationally.
I think Hillary was somewhat vulnerable on the issue despite her decades of outreach and presence (because of the 90s shit and the Obama campaign), but it needed a more refined and sensitive approach to get headway, not the massive butthurt and desperate pandering that the campaign and (moreso) the supporters did, and definitely not the butthurt borderline-Trumpian dogwhistle politics that followed (there was literally a fucking graph that said "IF AMERICA HAD NO BLACK PEOPLE BERNIE WOULD BE WINNING"
Tarc
(10,476 posts)forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)But he screwed up, and his supporters torpedoed it. He didn't need to *win*, just keep it close. If anything, what would have helped was better establishing that both he and Clinton can beat Trump while not making major gaffes. Again, he doesn't need to win AAs, just not get obliterated, and in particular, millennial AAs were slowly but surely breaking for him until they were reminded just why they don't believe in white-passing (because Sanders isn't exactly white) progressives.
dchill
(38,471 posts)Bash away.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Gothmog
(145,129 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I think there is a hunger in the Democratic base to advance progressive policies, and one thing Bernie DOES do is advance his positions on his policies (mostly progressive) unapologetically.
However, he's not very politically savvy. He has not, in his time in Washington, shown any significant ability to build a coalition or make deals, and that's essential in political leader. Some people don't like that because it means making compromises, and even supporting positions that you might not really support in your heart. But it is how the American political system actually works. And Bernie is bad at it.
Add to that the fact that despite caucusing with democrats for years, he has had never (until now) embraced being a Democrat, or worked to advance party interests, infrastructure, etc.
All those things make actually getting the party nomination very hard IMO. But I'll be honest, I have never-the-less been impressed with how much support he has gotten.
I hope it represents a chance at a fundamental level in the party. But I hope it is WITHIN the party and actually advances party candidates at all levels.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I seem to recall Bernie getting slammed for attending DSCC fundraisers outside of his election cycle. Which is it?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)He needs to build the party all over the place, IMO.
Whatever you think of her, HRC has gone to great efforts to build party infrastructure.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Absolute statements only require a single counterexample to be discredited.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)See if he continues to organize and get his peeps out in the midterms
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Red flags. His agenda is not realistic and dead before it ever gets to Congress. Issues arising during the campaign has brought on more questions of leadership.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)firebrand80
(2,760 posts)If he had two candidates in the race to the right of him.
Bernie's ideas could win a dem primary, but they have to be packaged differently.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)on Bernie's platform, or even FDR's 2nd/Economic Bill of Rights?
Also it's important to remember that the 2 term limit was pushed by a Republican Congress because they could never, ever beat a popular progressive incumbent like FDR straight up.
I'd love to find out the polls on an Obama/Trump matchup actually.
LettuceSea
(337 posts)As in, give him anything he wants.
If Joe is in the race, Bernie would be winning.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)While my line about Trump is probably going to come back and bite me, I turn to what I wrote in an August 2015 post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251541941
Just as I find it odd that some are pro-Obama but anti-Clinton, I find it odd that people who seem to grasp what is so wrong with the US political system also though Sanders was truly viable. There's an obvious disconnect there.