From the Arizona Secretary of State Election page

[kristopher]

How does an independent voter receive a ballot for the Primary Election?

An independent voter on the early voter list will receive a post card in the mail asking for the voter to choose which party ballot the voter wishes to receive for the Primary Election. If the independent voter goes to the polls on Election Day the voter will be given the option to choose a party ballot at that time.

This is the source of the problem.

ETA: The voters following this advice are being turned away.

Accidental? No. It is policy.

See if you can figure out why.

http://www.azsos.gov/elections

[LonePirate]

1. So it's a problem to require voters to choose a party when voting in a primary?

[frazzled]

17. That's how it's done in Illinois

On election day, you ask for either a Democratic or Republican ballot. Then you vote in that primary.

I voted early this year, for the first time (I had to leave town to visit my brand new granddaughter!). That's a little different than AZ. You just ask for the ballot you want (no postcards). The only difference was that you had to vote on computer rather than optical scan paper ballots. It made sense, since there are 50 different wards and hundreds and hundreds of precincts. They can't have a kazillion paper ballots at central locations. It worked well for me.

[kristopher]

24. Nope. That's exactly what the website says, but that isn't what would happen.

You'd be turned away. Today is a closed election.

[frazzled]

27. OK--I just went to the AZ Secretary of State website myself

And under the information for the 2016 Presidential Preference Election it says the following:

Can independent voters cast a vote in the presidential preference election?
No, only voters registered with a participating political party may vote in the PPE.

http://www.azsos.gov/elections/voting-election/election-information

I don't know where the OP got their information. But it's clear as a bell on the page I looked at.

[kristopher]

29. I got my information from the same page under the tab as labeled in the OP

Just like most of the indies who went to the poll today to vote in what they thought was a "Primary".

It is deliberately structured to mislead.

[frazzled]

32. But you went for the Aug. 30 Primary, not today's Presidential Preference Election

It's clearly stated. Everyone who was qualified to vote in that state got to vote if they wanted. Independents are not permitted to vote in the Presidential Preference there. It's a closed election.

[kristopher]

38. It isn't clearly labeled. Why are you intent on distorting the information?

You are a horrible Clinton spokesperson. It is obviously designed to confuse people. I know about it only because I was helping my daughter (she's in Mesa) check on it. She thought "the primary" was today and that she could vote just by showing up. By the time I did a more careful check, it was too late for her to change her registration.

The choice of the SoS to use that terminology wasn't an accident; it is one more deliberate dirty tactic in an ocean of dirty politics.

[frazzled]

43. It was clear as day to me

If you weren't a registered Democrat, you weren't entitled to vote anyway. You only lost some time. And you're losing more complaining about it.

In my state, I checked that my voter registration was in order and that my polling place hadn't changed back in January for the March 15 election. It took all of 30 seconds on the Board of Elections website.

This morning I actually looked at the AZ website, and the "Presidential Preference Election" info was a giant block at the very top of the page. I didn't read the rules at that time, since I don't live there.

[kristopher]

52. So you didn't read the rules, you didn't go to the website earlier, but it was clear as day?

Sure.

[still_one]

34. Arizonia is a closed primary state. A closed primary means that only voters registered with a

participating political party may vote in the primary, with the respective ballot they registered as. Democratic, Republican, or Green.

The Arizona rules were were in place long ago

[kristopher]

40. That isn't true because today's election isn't "The Primary".

The Primary is open. This is - only on the SoS page - the Presidential Preference Election.

So when an indie checks on voting in "The Primary", as you see in the OP they are told they don't need to change their registration.

[still_one]

45. Then there is conflicting information, because another link to the SOS site says differently

http://www.azsos.gov/elections/voting-election/election-information

I have no idea what is happening

[kristopher]

62. Yes. That's the point.

Neither did my daughters until it was too late to switch.

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. If you believe this is deliberate chicanery, who do you think is the target? ...

Think:

1) Maricopa County
2) republican SoS
3) republican County Clerk
4) republican Governor
5) trump's turn-out numbers

Hint ... This ain't about Democrats.

[kristopher]

41. I agree, it is about parties controlling the outcome and excluding newcomers.

[workinclasszero]

37. IKR?

SMH

[TheSocialDem]

2. you'd think the DNC would want to be the gold standard for

conducting out primary electoral process..

[frazzled]

18. The DNC has nothing to do with Arizona's voting laws and procedures. /nt

[kristopher]

20. That is in a legal sense only.

The actual decision making is closely led by the parties.

[frazzled]

21. The rules are identical for both parties.

So I don't understand what you're saying. Arizona controls this: yes, perhaps it's based on Democrats and Republicans there who make the laws. But those laws are pretty clearly stated. The Secretary of State runs the elections.

[kristopher]

23. If you were an indie who checked the SoS page about voting in the Primary

You'd end up going to the poll today and being turned away.

[Ed Suspicious]

3. .

"If the independent voter goes to the polls on Election Day the voter will be given the option to choose a party ballot at that time."

This needs to be honored. It is very clear.

[kristopher]

4. Go back to the page and keep reading

[still_one]

60. no, I am not, I just found out, and that is why I deleted my post, and now I know the difference,

thanks

[AtomicKitten]

5. The poll workers were ill-informed.

Anecdotal reports of indies being turned away.

[kristopher]

6. Go back to the SecState page and keep reading

[AtomicKitten]

8. primary election August 30th? Is that it?

Today is scheduled presidential preference election.

What does that mean exactly?

[brooklynite]

11. That's the non-Presidential Primary

The Revolution (™) seems to forget that there are other offices we need candidates for.

[kristopher]

14. There is only One Primary

There is no Presidential Primary so there is no NonPresidential Primary.

The Primary is The Primary.

[Chan790]

66. It means they divided out the Presidential race from the other primary-season races...

called it a "Presidential Preference Election" and passed different rules that govern it from those used in the primaries (for all other races) in AZ.

[AtomicKitten]

68. expletive deleted

Such bullshit. Thanks. Cheers.

[brooklynite]

7. I'm confused; how can I blame this on the DNC?

[kristopher]

9. Do you understand that indies can't vote by just showing up today?

[brooklynite]

10. Yes, but this has to be a DNC/DWS conspiracy...

...otherwise. I'd have to blame the Sanders campaign for not organizing to get people re-registered.

[kristopher]

12. Perhaps you should try to figure out what's happening before you shill for Hill.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. This anti-establishment C/T would be comical, if it weren't so sad. n/t

[kristopher]

49. Why do you think the US is almost slipping out of the "Full Democracy" category?

Our election system is in crisis. Sticking your head in the sand because you want to have some stupid partisan pissing contest is exactly why that state exists.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. That and too many Americans are in full delusion mode and think ...

conspiracy theory, when the better explanation is a lack of sustained participation.

[kristopher]

61. Lack of sustained participation doesn't just happen.

It is a desired goal for a lot of interests who benefit from non-democratic governance.

Everything done in a corporate boardroom is a conspiracy. Too many shallow thinking, self interested people use obviously flawed reasoning to dismiss uncomfortable situations that cause them cognitive dissonance. A favorite refuge of the worst of those slackers is to hurl accusations of "conspiracy theory".

Sure there are a lot of irrational beliefs. This isn't one of them since the country is, indeed, in a crisis of democracy.

They rank the US 20th out of 20 in their set of "full democracy" nations.

The Economist Intelligence Unit’s Democracy Index 2015
Democracy in an age of anxiety

The Economist Intelligence Unit’s Democracy Index provides a snapshot of the state of democracy worldwide for 165 independent states and two territories—this covers almost the entire population of the world and the vast majority of the world’s states (micro-states are excluded). The Democracy Index is based on five categories: electoral process and pluralism; civil liberties; the functioning of government; political participation; and political culture. Based on their scores on a range of indicators within these categories, each country is then itself categorised as one of four types of regime: “full democracies”; “flawed democracies”; “hybrid regimes”; and “authoritarian regimes”.

This is the eighth edition of the Democracy Index. It reflects the situation in 2015, a year in which democracy was tested in the face of war, terrorism, mass migration and other crises, and, in some cases, suffered serious setbacks. The title of this year’s report reflects the threat to democracy emanating from the fearful mood of our times, which informs the reactions of ordinary people and political elites alike. An increased sense of personal and societal anxiety and insecurity in the face of diverse perceived risks and threats—economic, political, social and security—is undermining democracy, which depends on a steadfast commitment to upholding enlightenment values (liberty, equality, fraternity, reason, tolerance and free expression) and fostering democratic institutions and a democratic political culture.

In many democracies, political elites worry about their inability to relate to the electorate and fear the challenge that populist parties pose. In some cases, established parties have colluded to exclude or marginalise the populists. In the face of terrorist threats, democratic governments have reacted in anti-democratic ways, calling into question freedom of speech or adopting draconian laws. In non-democratic countries, authoritarian political elites fear the threat from the masses and seek to bolster their rule by imprisoning opponents, restricting the media, limiting popular freedoms and repressing protest. Meanwhile, electorates are ever more anxious—about economic insecurity, about their personal safety, about the consequences of immigration, about the threat of terrorism—and angry that their concerns are not being represented by the established parties. This mood of fear and insecurity represents one of the main threats to democracy today.

Almost one-half of the world’s countries can be considered to be democracies, but, in our index, the number of “full democracies” is low, at only 20 countries; 59 countries are rated as "flawed democracies”. Of the remaining 88 countries in our index, 51 are “authoritarian” and 37 are considered to be “hybrid regimes”. As could be expected, the developed OECD countries dominate among “full democracies”; there are two Asian countries, one Latin American country (Uruguay) and one African country (Mauritius), which suggests that level of development is not a binding constraint, but is a constraint, nevertheless. Slightly less than one-half (48.4%) of the world’s population lives in a democracy of some sort, although only 8.9% reside in “full democracies”. Around 2.6bn people, more than one-third of the world’s population, still live under authoritarian rule (with a large share being, of course, in China).

“Flawed democracies” are concentrated in Latin America, eastern Europe and Asia...

http://64.37.52.189/~parsifal/EIU2015.pdf

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. Americans don't have a history or reputation for sustained participation ...

and it's not because of some boogey man ... it's because large segments of the population don't participate.

Too many shallow thinking, self interested people use obviously flawed reasoning to dismiss uncomfortable situations that cause them cognitive dissonance.

Isn't that the same/a similar argument the Math guy made in the movie, A beautiful Mind, when others couldn't see the coded message that was clear to him?

[kristopher]

70. Are you for real?

You are essentially asserting that the cause of people not participating is people not participating.

Brilliant. How could anything possibly be missing from that?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511555018#post61

[slipslidingaway]

13. "I am not registered with a recognized party, can I still vote in the Primary Election?"

http://www.azsos.gov/elections/voting-election/register-vote-or-update-your-current-voter-information

"Yes. Arizona has an open primary law which allows any voter who is registered as independent to cast a ballot for one of the officially recognized political parties."

[kristopher]

16. Who do they vote for in The Primary?

And when do they vote?

[slipslidingaway]

25. Aug 30, 2016 Primary Election ???

http://www.azsos.gov/elections/elections-calendar-upcoming-events#ec

Confusing!



Democratic Party Candidates - Presidential Preference Election 2016
http://www.azsos.gov/elections/voting-election/election-information/prespref2016dem


Aug 1, 2016
Voter registration deadline for Primary Election

Aug 3, 2016
Early Voting begins for Primary Election

Aug 30, 2016
Primary

[still_one]

39. Then why does this page say differently?

http://www.azsos.gov/elections/voting-election/election-information

[kristopher]

44. Good question, why are you asking the wrong person?

T's one that should go to the SoS in AZ.

Ask them why they are trying to confuse voters.

[still_one]

58. I just found out. Todays election is NOT a primary, but a Presidential Preference Election

A PPE is a closed election, and you must be registered as a Democrat, Republican, or Green party to vote in it.

The primary is for state and local offices, and it is an Open primary. This is how Arizona is setup

The PPE stands for a Presidential Preference Election. That is the election that was held today in Arizona, and requires a party declaration to vote:

"The March 22, 2016, PPE ballot only contains presidential candidates from participating political parties. (Note: Arizona’s open primary provision does NOT apply to the PPE.)

The August 30, 2016, Primary Election ballot contains federal (U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives), state and local candidates and will NOT contain any presidential candidates. Click here for more information on the August 30, 2016, Primary Election.

The PPE* and the Primary Election are an opportunity for Arizona voters to nominate candidates to the General Election. The General Election is when candidates are actually elected to office.

*Party winners of the Arizona PPE may not appear on the General Election ballot. The official party nominee is determined at the party’s national convention."

http://www.azcleanelections.gov/en/presidential-preference-election

[slipslidingaway]

56. Please post the relevant portion, the site is confusing, exactly what are you referring to?

AND if it is different from another page, why is that?

Voting should be easy and the rules clearly stated.

[still_one]

59. Todays election is NOT a primary. It is know as a PPE, or Presidental Preference election

The PPE is a closed election, and only for the nomination of the President.

The primary which will be held in a few days is for state and local offices, and is an open election.

This is how Arizona is setup.

The PPE stands for a Presidential Preference Election. That is the election that was held today in Arizona, and requires a party declaration to vote:

"The March 22, 2016, PPE ballot only contains presidential candidates from participating political parties. (Note: Arizona’s open primary provision does NOT apply to the PPE.)

The August 30, 2016, Primary Election ballot contains federal (U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives), state and local candidates and will NOT contain any presidential candidates. Click here for more information on the August 30, 2016, Primary Election.

The PPE* and the Primary Election are an opportunity for Arizona voters to nominate candidates to the General Election. The General Election is when candidates are actually elected to office.

*Party winners of the Arizona PPE may not appear on the General Election ballot. The official party nominee is determined at the party’s national convention."

http://www.azcleanelections.gov/en/presidential-preference-election

[kristopher]

63. Pretty hard to get to that knowledge though, wasn't it?

Both my daughter and I made the same mistake initially and looked to the obvious choice about the primary.

I happened to keep browsing but it was already too late for her to change her registration. How many voters who planned to vote for Bernie do you think were shut out by this chicanery?

[DesertRat]

64. There's no chicanery

No one that I know had any problem understanding this election. The independent Trump voters certainly understood it.

[kristopher]

65. And you know that as fact because....

[slipslidingaway]

67. Thank you, that site does not make it easy!!! In the popular questions they state ...

http://www.azsos.gov/elections/voting-election/register-vote-or-update-your-current-voter-information

Granted they never say which primary? You really have to drill down in their site to find the relevant info.

"I am not registered with a recognized party, can I still vote in the Primary Election?

Yes. Arizona has an open primary law which allows any voter who is registered as independent to cast a ballot for one of the officially recognized political parties."


When people seek info on voting, and if I read that, I would have thought I could vote for any candidate in either party.




http://www.azsos.gov/elections


"How does an independent voter receive a ballot for the Primary Election?

An independent voter on the early voter list will receive a post card in the mail asking for the voter to choose which party ballot the voter wishes to receive for the Primary Election. If the independent voter goes to the polls on Election Day the voter will be given the option to choose a party ballot at that time."

[NWCorona]

15. Aren't there reports of party affiliation being mysteriously switched?

[kristopher]

19. Yes. That's a different issue, I don't know anything except anecdotes on that but...

...I think a lot of what's slowing things down has to do with indies that went to the website and thought they could just show up.

Do you realize that if you're an indie and show up without preregistering as a Dem you won't be allowed to vote?

[NWCorona]

22. Yes I do

So imagine if you are a registered Democrat and you come up independent in the system. Then what?

[kristopher]

26. I'd be pissed. But I don't think that is nearly as big a problem as the OP points to.

[frazzled]

28. This isn't the Primary election: It's the Presidential Preference Election

The Primary is on August 30. You read the wrong instructions.

Go to the instructions for the Pres. Preference Election today: it clearly states that only registered members of a party may vote. No Independents.

[kristopher]

30. Wow, you're quick.

That is the point of the freaking OP - to lead you to the understanding via the same convoluted fucking path that a voter has to take.

It is deliberate voter suppression.

[frazzled]

33. It's not voter suppression if it's a closed primary

in which people not registered with one of the participating parties are not allowed to vote. It's called the Arizona state laws.

The Sanders campaign must have really dropped the ball on this one. They could have told Independents to register as Democrats according to whatever rules exist for that sort of thing in Arizona (which I'm NOT going to look up; I'm going to bed.)

[kristopher]

42. Right, and literacy tests aren't voter suppression either.

Nor is requiring voter IDs or any of the hundreds of other drip drip tactics that the Established Parties use to maintain their hold on the process and the outcome.

[still_one]

48. what is the difference between the primary and the presidential preference election?

[kristopher]

50. The PPE is what everyone is calling the primary.

The primary is an election in August for local offices.

[DesertRat]

51. Today wasn't a primary

So Independents did not receive a post card. Today was the Presidential Preference Election.
http://www.azsos.gov/elections/voting-election/election-information

[obamanut2012]

53. This isn't about what's being held today

This is the thing during the summer.

today is the PPE, not the Primary.

[kristopher]

57. My daughter didn't learn that until it was too late.

Since she also told her sister that you could just show up at the primary, that is two Bernie voters who missed the chance to vote for him.

[Juicy_Bellows]

55. Thank you for taking the time and patience on this thread.

Well played and there is ample proof above that the 'instructions' are very poorly written or masterfully written, depending on your perspective.