Black Millennials: "Hillary...invested in violence against Black bodies."

[thereismore]

http://blackmillennials.com/2016/03/22/i-dont-need-sexism-to-criticize-hillary-clinton/

"But to suggest that sexism is the sole reason that people — particularly Black people (namely Black women) — critique one of the architects of contemporary mass incarceration is dismissive and absurd. Hillary Clinton’s ambitions to prevail in a system bound to neoliberal racist capitalism means that she not only participates, but is invested in violence against Black bodies.

Her vocal support of the notorious 1994 crime bill and neoliberal welfare “reform,” alongside her hawkish foreign policy initiatives that have destabilized countries, dismantled global infrastructure, and killed swaths of Black and brown people across the globe, amounts to Black blood on her white imperialist hands."

...

"I am not a sexist because I see clearly that a Hillary Clinton White House could very well mean that my People are*once again* violated. White women, historically and presently, cause harm to Black communities and then hide behind white womanhood to excuse their transgressions.

I don’t need sexism to criticize Hillary. She has an arsenal of anti-Blackness with which I can hang my grievances. In pursuit of her political ambitions, she has exposed her indebtedness to patriarchal imperialism and the ultimate obliteration of my People."

[bravenak]

1. Funny how you guys always find a black person to say the stuff you have been saying

and do not care how ridiculous it is for you to do.

Clinton White House could very well mean that my People are*once again* violated. White women, historically and presently, cause harm to Black communities and then hide behind white womanhood to excuse their transgressions.

I don’t need sexism to criticize Hillary. She has an arsenal of anti-Blackness with which I can hang my grievances. In pursuit of her political ambitions, she has exposed her indebtedness to patriarchal imperialism and the ultimate obliteration of my People."

Oh yes. Because Bernie had been on the front lines with us for all these years.

[giftedgirl77]

2. Lol, they would trot out Ben Carson & Herman Cane

if they said something positive about Sander. It's the "here's my black friend" game but on a much broader scale.

[bravenak]

3. They just keep going and going and going and...

Too bad stockholm syndrome left. They coulda had another MLK ressurection.

[giftedgirl77]

4. Oh have no fear.

He'll either bring a sock or ppl will start linking to his garbage from that other jackass site.

[bravenak]

6. I'm sure he's right here

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. So brave, serious question, not that I expect you to answer

did i imagine all the BLACK PEOPLE at the San Diego Rally? Did I imagine the Latinos. and the immigrants?

Just wondering becuase my camera took photos of those folks. I guess my camera sensor does weird shit at political rallies.

I even interviewed a few... and they do not agree with you. Is it cool with you that have an opinion on civil rights, mass incarceration and corporate law?

[1StrongBlackMan]

75. Yes ,,, there were BLACK PEOPLE and Latinos and immigrants at the San Diego rally ...

but then, there are BLACK PEOPLE and Latinos anf immigrants at trump and cruz rallies ... Your point?

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. My point is that she keeps ignoring that

I am even quoting one who happens to be a law student at USD. Very bright young woman.

Oh and your comparison of Sanders and Trump supports is kind of smeary. But you knew that.

I guess my sensor was playing tricks though. So was my recorder.

[1StrongBlackMan]

82. No she doesn't ignore them ...

she, like me, just doesn't appreciate how white progressives use these (relatively) few Black voices to give some kind of Black validation of your (I'm sorry, not yours you are a Jewish, immigrant Latina) ... their views.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Relatively

Lemme see, rough estimate here

Crowd was 13K strong. By my rough estimate 10K were minorities. You see, many Latinos, like me look white. Trust me, or not, we are not. And at least 8K of that crowd were kind of all kinds of colors. I also saw a lot of friendly faces, some of them Native American as well, and poiynesian. We even had a few from our local Somali community, and a few Muslim Americans. It was a spectacle of how varied the nation is. A pleasure actually to see.

We have had this discussion before, I agree with you that we have a relatively low number of AA in the crowd, but they slightly over perform the county wide 6.1 percent. And with few expecting, they were millennials.

Oh and since we ran that yesterday already from the venue, the local president of the National, Action Network and his Executive Committee, met with the Senator as well, in private before the speech.

But as I said, my sensor was playing tricks. That is the ONLY explanation that will fit your biases. And those my friend, are your biases. Myself, I had a long day at work, and just getting near the end of a first draft. I still have 400+ photos to go through.

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. LOL ... Yeah ... Okay. Did you use the "fox estimator"?

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. my estimate of the crowd after going though it was 15K

according to the campaign it was 13K... so you can take that estimate with them. And being off by 2K in a crowd that size is not bad


Look you do not like him, we get it, you are a conservative democrat, I get it. Let it be... there are plenty of minorities, more than you want to accept, that actually like Sanders.

There are some of us who will pretend to vote, but we crossed that rubicon in 2000. And who your party nominates it is your shit, not mine. I was there, becuase we don't get presidential candidates coming to town too often. This rally by the way, outperformed Ron Paul's... by orders of magnitude.

[1StrongBlackMan]

93. Okay ... I apologize for that ...

But you have it wrong, I DO like Bernie, though I consider him the second best candidate in the Democratic Primaries. And no, I am not, overall and on balance, a "conservative Democrat."

But that is not what Bravenak, nor I, was talking about.

And who your party nominates it is your shit, not mine.

Interesting phrasing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. I am one of those pesky indies you will need in the fall

Have been since 2011. I have not made that a secret. And I joined the declined to state party in California as a protest, as a reporter it is best i stay that way. Among other things I get everybody's shit in the mail, which is useful. Sometimes you go, DAMN I forgot to interview that guy!

And what you two are speaking about from where I sit, is dismissing any voices that do not agree with you. You might not be doing this consciously, but you are doing it nevertheless. And it is quite disgusting.

By the way, I used my comicon experience... damn I wish they had the line going back on back, It is actually easier to calculate than a single file line going around an island.

[1StrongBlackMan]

99. Well ...

And what you two are speaking about from where I sit, is dismissing any voices that do not agree with you. You might not be doing this consciously, but you are doing it nevertheless. And it is quite disgusting.

Then perhaps you should think of {ETA: to change "writing" to "reading"} what we have written. Our objection has NOTHING to do with whether we agree with what is written or not ... and has nothing to do with Bernie, per se.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. That is exactly how it looks from where I sit

and given that my own personal immigrant and minority status has been questioned as well, let's just say I won't be too friendly, if you get my drift.

Ah near the end of this write up... I need to go through the sound, to find a couple quotes. Work.

[1StrongBlackMan]

104. Use some of your journalistic skills to actually read what we have been objecting to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. You have been objecting to not treating a community as a lego block

from where I sit.

By the way, both parties do it. It is wrong

[1StrongBlackMan]

107. Exactly and for the same reason ...

and yes ... it is wrong. So why are you talking about my not liking Bernie and/or my being a conservative Democrat? ... neither of which is true, BTW.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Alas it is you who is doing it

not me

And from where i sit you strike me as a conservadem... which is fine. Those are the arguments you make. If you are not, that is fine with me. I know that in a real political chart I am way to the left of the DNC... I also know what that means by the way.

But here is a tip from my own latino community.

Latinos in the US West are nowhere close in interest or historic experience as Cuban Americans for example. You know who I expect to vote in large numbers for Trump? Puerto Ricans. You want to know why? Dems are the ones screwing Puerto Rico. And they have as much as I do of a right to have an opinion and not to have that questioned because we might not see eye to eye. Every time somebody posts a view of an African American that does not match your views you complaint.

And you know what, the same goes with every other community.

Now need to reduce photos and get ready for publication, I am putting up the full speech. A quote here or there does not do it justice. How foreign of me. (And I mean that part... foreign media is far more into just giving in the facts, and not doing editorial work)

[1StrongBlackMan]

111. Okay. Get back to work on your article

[delrem]

174. You, and she, really don't like "white progressives", do you?

I don't understand that.
I really don't.

But I guess it is what it is.

You both like Hillary Clinton. Enough said.

[1StrongBlackMan]

175. Though I can't speak for "she", you are correct ...

I don't like white "progressives", as represented on DU (and tend towards Bernie), that call discussions of social equality, divisive, and anyone discussing social equality (particularly, PoC) "tools of the oligarchy".

I don't like white "progressives", as represented on DU (and tend towards Bernie), that call (and agree, and worse sit silently, with the calling of) PoC and the LGBTQ community "Stockholm Syndrome" sufferers, low information voters, lesser educated, or otherwise defective, because they support a different candidate then they.

I don't like white "progressives", as represented on DU and tend towards Bernie, that would have a wish stand in for a plan.

and, on a personal note ... I don't like white "progressives", as represented (and tend towards Bernie), that decide who I "like", despite what I have said, repeatedly.

[delrem]

177. You lie. Nobody truly supporting Bernie calls discussions of social equality "divisive".

That is quite simply a lie.

I say "truly" because yah, there are fucking assholes abounding.
I bet there are assholes pretending to be "supporting Hillary" too.

But you lie about the mass of "Bernie supporters" on DU.
It's a sick lie.
It isn't meant to heal divisions. It's meant to swiftboat "Bernie supporters" and nothing else.

[1StrongBlackMan]

178. I lie and you are quite simply full of ...

denial. There are simply too many examples of "true" Bernie supporters that attempt to shut down discussion of social equality with the "divisiveness" cry.

I say "truly" because yah, there are fucking assholes abounding. I bet there are assholes pretending to be "supporting Hillary" too.

More delusion ... Face it, the Bernie camp owns these "assholes".

But you lie about the mass of "Bernie supporters" on DU.
It's a sick lie.
It isn't meant to heal divisions. It's meant to swiftboat "Bernie supporters" and nothing else.

All I can say is ...

And ...

[lovemydog]

126. That person you quoted, does she agree

word for word with the person quoted in the original post? I'd be curious if she does, or if she might say it differently or perhaps even disagree with some of it. Can you show her the post or read it to her? I'm sure she's a smart woman who has her own thoughts on various matters. I'd love to hear her word for word thoughts, if at all possible.

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. Do you really think DU is a subject of discussion in field interviews?

What is happening though is that regardless of the content these two in particular deny people of color they don't agree with free agency. That includes members of this site. (Among them me) it is ugly and they should stop.

[Autumn]

16. That black person has as much right to voice their opinion as you do. nt

[bravenak]

17. And I have the right to call bullshit.

And to laugh at the way they are waved around like we dont exist because they said something you all like. Bernie voted in favor of mass incarceration in the omnibus crime bill of ninety two.

[Autumn]

20. You just object that they actually exist. Plenty of crap waved around on the other side also ,

even by people who don't support Hillary.

[bravenak]

24. Oh yeah right

Ain't nothing worse that people tracking down and harassing And stalking MY Associates and social media accounts this week, over this damn campaign. I am not gonna fall for that shit after the disturbing complaints I have been getting for my family members.

[Autumn]

29. Then you need to call the police if you are being harassed and stalked.

[bravenak]

43. How bout people just stop obsessing over me to the point that they become out of control?

[Autumn]

47. You do know when you post on a message board people will respond to you?

I wouldn't call that an obsession, I would call that responding in kind. Seriously if you don't want people to respond to you why post?

[bravenak]

51. You still here?

[Autumn]

52. Oh hell yeah I'm still here.

[bravenak]

53. Well, I have to go.

[Autumn]

57. Have a nice day, and by that I mean have a nice day nt

[wendylaroux]

55. you like to piss people off,you laugh about it.your cruel ,and you want to believe you're

someone special,guess what,you aren't,none of us are. get over it.

[bravenak]

58. Look at how funny

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. She complaints of gettting stalked

and that the cops will just keep records... but she does this and is very, very, very cruel off site. To the point that is laughable, What she complaints others do to her, she constantly does to others.

[840high]

94. She's a victim in her

own mind.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Some of the stuff people have tried to put through in the paper are cruel

beyond belief. IP bans, wonderful things

[Arazi]

34. You called the police right?

[bravenak]

40. Dummy accounts

Can't figure it out without a gang of bullshit. Our police will not pay for that.

[Arazi]

45. You filed reports though? So its on record?

[bravenak]

49. I tried

All I could do was report. This is not the first time. I know the drill. Unless they make a credible threat, nothing will be spent chasing phantoms. Passive aggressive racist threats, notwithstanding. But of course I called the police yesterday. All they did was take my name and tell me to report further crap. People need to stop posting my name all over the place, it seem to me like this was the plan.

[riderinthestorm]

100. This woman is either free to express herself or she's being used...

What a crock. The AAs downthread (VulgarPoet etc) certainly don't agree with that interpretation.

What a way to strip this woman of her agency and her own voice.

[Autumn]

103. Because the writer doesn't support Hillary she is accused of being used.

So much ᗺull shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. I am debating, since I did not take a photo

of whether ti ID the AA supporter that I identified yesterday as such. Hells, bells I might as well. I did the rest.

[redgreenandblue]

27. Whut? So white people don't get to agree with black people, when those black people don't agree

with you?

At this point, I think you are not even trying to make sense any more.

[LanternWaste]

48. I blame my lack of basic comprehension on others too.

" I think you are not even trying to make sense any more..."

I blame my lack of basic comprehension on others too.

[1StrongBlackMan]

79. Yes, they can ... the right agrees with Armstrong Williams and Thomas Sowell, all the time ...

and they wave them around for all to see that there are indeed Black folks that agree with them ... just like progressives use Black folks (that agree with them) here on DU.

[redgreenandblue]

124. So... it boils down to black people not being a homogenous group.

Which leaves essentially two options for non-blacks, concerning race issues:

1. Have an opinion, which implies agreeing with some black folks and disagreeing with others.
2. Withdraw from the conversation entirely.

I should add that, as a scientist, one of the things that bothers me the most about "identity politics" is that often it seems like the discussions are more about who said something and how it was being said than the actual substance of what is being discussed.

Take the Conell West thing: I had to look up the context of that infamous quote that made the rounds on DU after he endorsed Bernie. And it turns out, if one looks beyond the inflammatory vocabulary, the substance of what he said was a criticism of Obama for not being blunt enough on race-issues. And that is now a bad thing because...? Basically he criticized Obama for exactly the thing that Bernie is now (justifiably or not) being criticized for (not calling out racism enough). But we should not mention him because.... that would mean waving him around? Is that it?

[1StrongBlackMan]

135. No ... It boils down to white people using Black voices to advance their own agenda ...

but because of what the Black person says; but, because the person is Black. when the right does it (with Williams and Thomas) white "progressives" have no problem seeing it for exactly what it is; but, when they, themselves do it, they become, not only tone-deaf, but blind.

one of the things that bothers me the most about "identity politics"

You do realize that "white" is a racial identity, too ... Right? I would add the increasing and recent (re)discovery of which is what is causing much of the societal angst.

[redgreenandblue]

136. "using Black voices to advance their own agenda" is such a nebulous concept.

Any person who agrees with any other person on anything is doing that to some degree.

I get it: You and a couple of other African American DUers support Hillary Clinton.

But let me ask you this: When white DUers who agree with you in that regard cited you as a "black voice in favor of Hillary", did you feel used? I'm guessing the answer is no, because you have a common "agenda". I saw plenty of posts here along the lines of "I know that African Americans support Hillary because I talked to person XYZ". None of these ever drew any criticism. But when someone responds "yes, but Conell West and Killer Mike and others support Bernie", suddenly that is "waving someone around".

What I see is that citing someone else only ever becomes a problem when the person being spoken to doesn't share ones opinion.

[JudyM]

139. Good point. The double standard is alive and well and even flaunted as if we are unaware.

We should sit quietly in our place with our hands folded while we are schooled about what we should understand.

[1StrongBlackMan]

141. No. It's not ...

You recognize it when the right does it with Williams and Armstrong.

I get it: You and a couple of other African American DUers support Hillary Clinton.

Well ... You got it wrong. I do not support HRC. I have said so, innumerous times, and early in the campaign season, I explained WHY I do not support her (though I will vote for her in the General Election, if she is the Democratic nominee) and nothing has changed.

But let me ask you this: When white DUers who agree with you in that regard cited you as a "black voice in favor of Hillary", did you feel used?

I have not seen any white HRC supporters citing to me as "black voice in favor of Hillary" (only Bernie supporters have done that); but, if a white HRC supporter were to do so, YES, I would feel that that poster is "using me" and would correct them, because they have ignored/selectively misused what I have written to make their point.

Further, even if I were a HRC supporter and someone cited to me, they wouldn't be doing so in the same manner as Bernie supporters cite to Black voices. The ONLY reason Bernie supporters cite to Black voices is BECAUSE those voices are Black.

I saw plenty of posts here along the lines of "I know that African Americans support Hillary because I talked to person XYZ"

I have seen none of these posts ... I think you are projecting here. I have, however, seen Bernie supporters along the lines of "I know that African Americans support Hillary" Killer Mike/Cornell West/Shane King ... when the truth is, the people citing to two of those three didn't know who the hell they were until they came out for Bernie AND realized that they were Black.

What I see is that citing someone else only ever becomes a problem when the person being spoken to doesn't share ones opinion.

No ... The problem is the continued citing to someone Black BECAUSE they are Black in an attempt to answer the "Bernie is having trouble connecting to the Black community" problem.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. Interesting twist here ...

White women, historically and presently, cause harm to Black communities and then hide behind white womanhood to excuse their transgressions.

What do you think they chances I could write that line, and survive to post a second post in that same thread?

[bravenak]

38. ZERO

Look at yr NAME

[ismnotwasm]

70. Zero

While I, as a white woman could write it though. I actually agree with much of this article, but as Bravenek points out, I don't like the way this young black voice is being used.

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. I'll say it again ...

the use of this young, Black voice to promote their message is no different from when the right uses Armstrong Williams, or Thomas Sowell's voice to promote the right-wing's message ... and the ignoring of what would be staunchly, and roundly condemned, criticized passage; but for, the overall promotion of their message, stands as proof.

[ismnotwasm]

77. Very true. OT, but I read a couple of Sowell's books

Then promptly handed them off to a white Libertarian--I had gotten them from my brother, also a white Libertarian. He is a good writer, but...damn.

[1StrongBlackMan]

88. I've read a lot of Sowell's writings ... and he IS quite talented ...

and despite his writing talent, and his writings being promoted by the right ... He still doesn't represent the mainstream of Black thought.

Here is what I am talking about ...

Here is the BlackMillennial's frontpage: http://blackmillennials.com/

Do you think it a coincidence the article selected for DU?

Strange how the DU posting that voice ignored all the other articles that, arguably, would have been of more relevance/interest to Black interested audiences (including this one: http://blackmillennials.com/2015/08/24/lemme-tell-you-some-things-about-white-frat-boys/) to post something supportive of their position.

[ismnotwasm]

113. Very good points

Not a coincidence at all

[1StrongBlackMan]

114. The Black voices that reach DU, posted by a segment of DU ...

only get here for the same reason Sowell has a voice in right wing media; and then, just like Sowell, those Black voices are limited to talking about "Black stuff" that fits the narrative presented.

[Number23]

117. About as high as the chances that anyone decent would actually recommend this thread

[1StrongBlackMan]

118. LOL ...

I checked who did rec it ... completely unsurprised.

[whatchamacallit]

61. They're easy to find because, contrary to the fiction you paint on DU,

THEY EXIST! Funny how self-appointed defenders of minority self-determination dismiss them.

[bravenak]

64. Of course they exist?

I just said they find them so the must by logics sake 'exist'..

[whatchamacallit]

65. Varied voices are welcome in a democracy

Nothing wrong with giving them exposure.

[bravenak]

66. Nothing wrong with me remarking on it

[whatchamacallit]

67. True

[katsy]

72. Just wait. The black vote is not

monolithic. Never has been. So we should ignore *some* black voices that don't like your candidate because why? That's disingenuous. Her perceptions are as valid as yours, right? Well?

Don't marginalize voices that are different from yours. Isn't there enough of that going around? We are all the same. We have desires and needs and opinions... all unique. My father used to tell me that I can learn from everyone without exception. I will learn good, I will learn bad, but in the end, I win when I adapt the good ideas and leave behind the bad.

Neither candidate can make racism disappear. They can only level the playing field for all. That is the good I look for from our leaders. Not *how* they say it. Not the *sound* of their voice. Not whether they *spoke* like I want. Not based on their *optics*.

No. All the fluff, hearts & kisses isn't what I look for. I want the playing field leveled for everyone. We are as a middle class in deep deep fucking trouble and I want someone who is either inspiring enough to turn the Senate right away, the house next election AND at least on my side enough to stop all fucking regressive legislation until then.

I don't want a dealmaker. I don't want a wheeler dealer. That is what I learned from our Republican friends. Stop dealing away our social safety net.

Because I've defined what I want then I could've chosen my candidate from a resume without all the bullshit fluff, gaffs & gotchas.

I want the brakes on until we get a majority in congress. I think my cantankerous, grumpy, one note "no more" guy can fill that bill.

[noiretextatique]

137. So, you have nothing of substance to say about the issue

The black person addressed, instead, you attack the poster for having the temerity to post it.

[Ash_F]

170. Sorry to be off topic, but I like that song in your sig

Never heard it.

Here's another one from Ice Cube though:

"Never put your trust in Hillary Rodham
Cause I can tell you now it's gon' turn out rotten"

[Loki]

5. Bernie Sander's voted against the Amber Alert Bill.

And you call that kind of rationale "integrity"? We could easily assume by this obvious "nay" vote, that he has absolutely no concern for endangered children by the logic you are presenting in this article. He has never apologized for that vote.

[thereismore]

11. Found another one!

[TheBlackAdder]

15. You must really hate civil liberties and judicial power!

.



http://archive.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2006/09/21/sanders_vote_on_amber_alert_emerges_as_key_campaign_issue/

Among the add-ons placed on the bill by House Republicans was one restricting the discretion of federal judges in crafting sentences for a range of crimes.

Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said Sanders is a strong supporter of the Amber Alert program, and signed onto a 2004 letter to the House leadership requesting full funding for it.

But Sanders voted against the Amber Alert bill because he felt its sentencing provisions were an unconstitutional intrusion by Congress, taking power that should rest with the judiciary.

The late Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist agreed. He wrote a letter to the Congress saying the sentencing provisions would do "serious harm to the basic structure of the sentencing guideline system" used by federal judges "and would seriously impair the ability of courts to impose just and reasonable sentences."

Lennon said Sanders "wants to have it both ways" on restricting sentences. He noted that Sanders says on his Web site that he supports mandatory minimum sentences for repeat sex offenders.

Sanders' camp said there is no inconsistency. Congress often passes mandatory minimum sentences for various crimes, but Sanders believed the sentencing provisions in the Amber Alert bill restricted sentencing in a much broader way, Weaver said.

.

[vintx]

106. Thank you for providing the factual refutation of that particular smear.

[Loki]

116. I prefer children to be alive

Civil liberties of child abductors and child molesters will never equal the life of one child. Quote
Rehnquist all you want. He was nothing but an old carrion feeding buzzard appointed by another old republican sock puppet.

[Luminous Animal]

162. Some child abductors and child molesters are found not guilty. That is why civil liberties remain

important to ALL accused.

[Loki]

169. I can't believe you just said that?

But then you are a Sanders supporter, so like him, you believe the abject ridigity of his ideology.

[Luminous Animal]

172. Indeed. A rigidity backed by the Constitution and the ACLU. Civlil rights are guaranteed for

disgusting people and well as the righteous.

[bravenak]

7. Let us REMEMBER that Bernie voted in FAVOR of MASS INCARCERATION

[jeff47]

36. and in FAVOR of domestic violence laws and in FAVOR of the assault weapons ban.

You keep managing to leave out the other two major parts of that crime bill. Wonder why.....no, I really don't wonder.

[bravenak]

46. Those part were Hillary and Bills ideas

[jeff47]

54. All three parts were Hillary and Bill's.

After all, they touted all three as large accomplishments.

[bravenak]

56. Their idea

[jeff47]

59. To be technical, all three were first proposed by other people.

The Clintons grabbed on to all three very, very hard since they polled well. Including that mass incarceration you were mad about above.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. no, not really

and you really do not understand the legislative process.

I mean that.

By the way, you know who wrote the part of the bill you despise? Senator Joe Biden

[Baobab]

8. This is not true. She wants more African companies to be able to work here.

For whatever the lowest qualified bid is.

Will jobs in the public sector, when they are privatized soon, go more preferentially to LDC companies?

And not European, etc. firms. I don't know, it may still come down to what firm submits the lowest qualified bid.

Will the current carve outs for women and minority firms map to LDC firms in a 1:1 manner?

I don't think anybody knows. I do know that LDCs get to keep a lot of kinds of discriminatory practices (like wage subsidies) longer. We may lose wage and food subsidies in our wealthier countries, as we're probably deemed successful enough by organizations such as the WTO to no longer need discriminatory subsidies (like minimum wage laws).

It will be up to them.

[Trajan]

108. Ignoring the elephant in the room ...

Incarceration for profit ... War Mongering behavior

Misdirect all you want ... These are significant issues that cannot be wished away ...

[Baobab]

120. I was talking about a specific thing, "movement of natural persons" i.e. Mode Four

Mode Four is a specific term that originated with the WTO GATS- i.e. the "fourth Mode of Supply"

Mode Four now basically refers to all cross border services provision in trade deals.

Here is a pro-globalization definition from Rupa Chanda..

"Services are traded through four modes of supply. These include: (1) cross-border supply which is analogous to trade in goods; (2) consumption overseas which is the movement of consumers to the home country of the service supplier; (3) commercial
presence or movement of capital; and (4) movement of labour (temporary migration) to supply the service in the foreign market.

The relative importance of these modes in the
delivery of the service depends on the characteristics of the sector, the regulatory framework
and trade barriers facing the sector, and other factors such as infrastructure,
labour market conditions, immigration policies, and the openness of the economy.

Although trade in services has expanded considerably, there remain numerous
regulations that constrain further expansion. While some of these regulations are in place to
address public policy concerns and cannot be termed barriers per se, some other regulations
are discriminatory and protectionist in nature. These barriers are particularly severe on the
mobility of factors, particularly, temporary movement of labour related to the delivery of services in overseas markets."

[Faux pas]

9. Kickin'

[VulgarPoet]

10. K/r.

The usual Weathervane brigade either will be here shortly or are already here.

[thereismore]

12. I wouldn't know. I have most of them on ignore.

[VulgarPoet]

13. Only way to keep the blood pressure down, really.

[lovemydog]

128. A way to stay in a bubble though, too.

[MisterP]

71. I thought they'd dropped ethnic issues once it backfired

and their Champion was outed as hating Clinton but hating Jews more

[Fairgo]

85. Yes, I thought so as well

The anti-semitism was finally on full display with that one. I am glad that one outed herself. It renders context for all future ops.

[bvf]

119. That whole ugly episode needs to be kept in mind

as an example of what's continually allowed to run around free here.

[beam me up scottie]

121. Once you're outed as a rabid anti-Semite you really have no credibility.

[Fairgo]

125. Exactly

Absolutely and completely undermines any credibility in the arena of social justice.

[kath]

165. You're right. Absolutely NONE.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. Oh, like DU gives a shit about black women and how we're treated. YOU DON'T!!!

Stop using us black people to prop up your candidate, regardless of who that favored candidate is.

Black people will not be used as your pawns!

[bravenak]

18. Thank fucking god you showed up

I am ready to end this damn primary

[Autumn]

21. Good thing it's not your decision to end this damn primary .

[bravenak]

22. It's already the hell over

[Autumn]

23. Not yet it's not already the hell over.

[bravenak]

25. Keep dreamin

[Autumn]

26. You keep right on doing what you are doing. It's gonna work out well.

[bravenak]

37. Sure will

Once folks stop thinking about me all day and night

[Autumn]

39. You are a real hard person to miss when you are posting

[bravenak]

41. Use IGNORE

[Autumn]

42. No I don't think so.

[bravenak]

44. Have fun

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. I'm lurking. Still wondering why Skinner hasn't taken care of this race problem here on DU.

Were it any other group of people, the disrespect would not be tolerated.

[bravenak]

35. We are just the ones who you can say anything to or about

Normal day in the USA

[Prism]

81. You mean like Jews?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

You can't just leave an opening like that.

[lovemydog]

130. That's been debunked.

Please read the apology thread in the AA forum. All this piling on after repeated apologies, both public and private, saddens me. Many have accepted her apologies. It's time to move on. Seriously, to me it's looking like a virtual lynch mob.

[Prism]

144. Racism doesn't get "debunked"

And to be honest, it's not given non-Jews to accept an apology and declare everyone should move on now. That's just Racism 101.

I'm not invested. And I haven't said a single word about any of it until here. But I'll say this.

If someone had displayed that bigotry towards her community, she and her friends would spend the next 6-12 months bringing it up at every opportunity. It would not be acceptable. It would be Exhibit A in racism on this board.

Instead, suddenly everyone got very chill about racist sentiment, and sometimes, "Things are said in the heat of the moment!" and "Won't somebody please think of the context?!"

LOL. C'mon, man. That would never ever ever ever ever fly if those words had been directed at the AA community here. Ever.

Which teaches a lesson really. Racism online isn't so big a deal, as long as we like the person being racist. But if we don't like the person being racist, well, worst thing ever!

It dilutes a serious issue and betrays that rather than earnestness, people are simply playing games with racial politics.

But hey, we're talking about a clique of people who thought homophobia was just grand for years and never ever admitted error or apologized for it. So I don't expect them to take anti-semitism seriously either.

Bigotry is awesome for them, but woe onto anyone else.

The racial well has been poisoned here, and I think it's by design. And it is a deeply bigoted little clique that managed it. So that bigotry accidentally saw the light of day. Oops!

Would you call people decrying a white male racist a lynch mob? No, you wouldn't. You're part of the problem for using that kind of charged language to defend and apologize for bigotry. The color of a person's skin does not immunize them from the hatred and bigotry they put forth in the world.

So stop being quite so ok with it, yeah?

[beam me up scottie]

153. ^^^THIS^^^

[Puglover]

154. And that is the thing.

It´s reduced to being part of a clique on this website by some. Which is utterly sickening.

There is a poster on this website that posted ¨ ¨repeatedly over the pain that LGTB posters felt over Hillary Clinton´s remarks on the Reagan´s. And not a word was said.

If anyone wonders why I don´t take a word these folks say seriously that is a prime example.

[Prism]

156. I don't take any of the -ist talk seriously here

Because it is always, always, always situational and only ever brought up to promote various meta agendas.

Just ask the POCs who don't go along with the clique how that's worked out for them.

If they're actually POCs at all! (Because anyone with a different opinion is clearly lying about their ethnicity, but hey, we're not a monolith!)

I couldn't take out the loans necessary to buy that much stupid.

[Puglover]

157. Yep.

Nicely said. And utterly true.

[bvf]

168. *Very* well said!

It would immediately be alerted on as meta by the usual suspects, but this could stand as an OP.

The way some members here have professionalized victimhood while simultaneously victimizing others is really inexcusable.

[Lordquinton]

155. Can this be an OP?

I was looking for the rec button.

[Puglover]

158. It SHOULD be an OP. The spinning would be fun to see.

[kath]

166. +1000. Truly a great post.

[AlbertCat]

171. Racism doesn't get "debunked"

Such a excellent post, Prism.

Sometimes in the echo chamber safe haven groups, they forget the outside world is not an echo chamber, and get called on myopic views that simply won't fly out in public.

And I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt. But some posters have worn that benefit down to nothing. It's impossible to forget past posts and stunts to be declared a victim or launch outrageous attacks on others.

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. I read the "apology" and as a Jew

It has zero value unless it comes with a real change in behavior.

And let's not include the how personal she got m'kay. So no, not accepted until she shows change

[Autumn]

148. Something being debunked and an "apology" are not the same.

Bernie supporters are still being called racists months after BLM disrupted Bernie and it was objected to by Bernie supporters and it wasn't their message that was objected to, it was way it was done and Bernie being held to a different standard. When is it time to move on from that?

[lovemydog]

149. If one reads all of the posts in that thread and others,

I believe reasonable minds would agree it's been thoroughly debunked. Maybe you disagree. That's fine.

Why do you think some Bernie supporters are still being called racists. More accurately, imho, why do you think some Bernie supporters are being called out pretty far and wide for having exhibited racist types of behavior. Not just at DU, on other forms of social media and on blogs, web sites, and even some fairly mainstream and liberal type publications? Do you think (as some appear to believe) that all or some of those individuals who want to discuss it because they are 'racist' against white people? Or 'racist' against jewish people? Or they are all shills for Hillary? Or paid trolls? I'm interested in your thoughts.

[Autumn]

151. Start an OP if you want my opinion on those issues. Here, I think you need this.

de·bunk
dēˈbəNGk/
verb
past tense: debunked; past participle: debunked
expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief).
"the magazine that debunks claims of the paranormal"
synonyms: explode, deflate, quash, discredit, disprove, contradict, controvert, invalidate, negate; challenge, call into question, poke holes in; formalconfute
"even the most successful hoax will eventually be debunked"
reduce the inflated reputation of (someone), especially by ridicule.
"comedy takes delight in debunking heroes"

I responded to your claim that a poster here who wrote an anti Semitic screed elsewhere has been debunked. It has not. The DU identify of the writer has been established and what was written, she has admitted to. So nothing has been debunked.

[riderinthestorm]

152. You don't get to tell people when its time to "move on" from an insult

You don't have that right.

That sick comment targeted Jews AND Bernie supporters. There were two parts to that comment and she only ever apologized for the anti-semitism and only after she was caught after letting it hang out there for more than a week.

[riderinthestorm]

160. Thanks for the clarification. nt

[kdmorris]

163. Crap I went and looked again... I was wrong

it was on 3/11.

I'm going to self-delete.

[kath]

167. No, fstdt.com, a site which collects the slimiest, most disgusting things said on the internet,

picked it up and posted it on their site on 3/11. (At first, another DUer who called it to attention on a DU thread (one of the first to do so here, several did so before I ever did) thought like you, that Bravenak wrote the comment on 3/11 - but see below)

The anti-Semitic statement (from the vile David Horowitz-owned FrontPage Mag) was posted in a comment to one of Bravenak's diaries on DailyKos on 3/7.

Someone on Kos snagged a screenshot of the anti-semitic statement at that point, 3/7, and the screenshot from FrontPage indicated that it had been posted "one month ago".

So Bravenak posted it on FrontPage sometime between when the article she was commenting on appeared on FrontPage (Jan. 20th or so, IIRC) and Feb.7. Hers was the 6th comment posted on the article, and she deleted it after she was outed at Kos on March 7.

[Capt. Obvious]

164. Her apology has been debunked

[katsy]

83. Yeah we do care. And yeah some don't.

That's our big melting pot. And we're lucky to have one another, as well as a place to banter about political events.

No one's using you or giving voice to pawns. There's no such thing as a *pawn*. That's a nasty way to refer to a human being that disagrees with your point of view.

You assert your right to your opinions, then respect that others have opinions which may differ from yours. But that doesn't make them pawns. That's an insulting term. Disgraceful.

Bernie Sanders has supporters of all races, religions, sexes and so does Hillary. Hillary has more minority supporters and that's great! We have great candidates. Why attack minority supporters of Bernie? Are they stupid? Pawns? Gullible? Not *really* black? Some fucking respect for diversity.

[VulgarPoet]

131. What's fucked up is I've heard three of four of those already.

[lovemydog]

133. Well, show some 'fucking respect' (your words)

for other individual's points of view.

[katsy]

142. I do and when I make a error in judgment

I own it. I'm fallible.

I do show fucking respect and I thrive in diversity of opinions.

Stop flinging poo

[lovemydog]

147. Okay.

My view is that I wonder why the dominant culture determines what is and is not racist, rather than the minority culture being discussed? Why are people who raise these significant types of questions accused of 'flinging poo' vis a vis what I feel is a rather domineering attitude by the dominant culture determining what is or is not 'racist'? And on top of that, pretty aggressively trying to silence individuals in the minority culture who don't share the view of the dominant one. I'm asking these questions on a larger scale, not directed at you personally, with regard to our local communities, our states, our country and our world. I'm being sincere, not trolling or playing games. I ask this kinds of questions of myself and really appreciate hearing every individuals' views on these things, including yours.

[katsy]

150. Determining what is racist?

I was interested in this young woman's pov. I believe she deserves respect irrespective of who she supports in any election. Actually, it's not my business. What is my business is her thought provoking editorial.

I'm no judge of all that's come down here on du with respect to charges of racism. I haven't read many ops. What I have seen here is deep mistrust and great abuse of insults back and forth.

I can not tell poc how to *feel* and assume no special insight into what defines racism from a poc's perception.

I can tell you about me a little if it's worth anything... I immigrated here from Europe as a toddler. My 1st babysitter was an old black man who owned a home next to our walk up studio in the city. My 2nd babysitters were a lesbian couple. I love my parents for enriching my life with the ability to judge people for their character not their looks or lot in life.

Although work tied me to a lily white suburb, my kids have been bussed to inner city schools because that's where I'm most at home. They go to an IB academy and they are the minority. They have good sense and perspective as to their place in this world.

Know what hurts? All this nastiness on both sides is astonishing to me. In my whole life story... I've never seen such cruelty amongst people. No not every charge of racism feels true to me. Actually not many charges of racism feel right. On the other hand ignorance compels some people to keep pressing their views on others. It's ignorant.

The whole place here is starting to feel disingenuous with charges being flung back and forth.

I thank you for giving me the chance to vent. It's made me think about who I am and what I won't tolerate. When you have that power back, you lose the desire to attack others.

[lovemydog]

173. Thanks for your kind reply.

It's made me think a bit more as well. I'm tired of arguing too. Hope you enjoy a good evening and wonderful day tomorrow!

[katsy]

176. Same to you

[lovemydog]

132. Thank you for saying that.

It's fucking disgusting.

[Betty Karlson]

19. K&R for exposure. And for truth. eom

[riderinthestorm]

30. K&R! nt

[Arazi]

33. Kicked and recced!! eom

[jwirr]

50. K&R

[polly7]

60. She has hurt so many people with her actions and the backing Bill's policies.

I just DO NOT understand how, in spite of so many black people now supporting Bernie and talking about all of this, people here are so nasty and insulting towards anyone even bringing it up. So dismissive of millions who've lost so much and had lives ruined.

Preserve the status quo at all cost though, right? WHO is it that cares for minorities??? Doesn't seem to me AT ALL like it's those who brush all of this off like her stolen from Obama gif thing.

Fucking ridiculous, imo.

[desmiller]

68. K & R.

[Hiraeth]

69. DU Rec

69th reply and I can only see 13 of them. Ignore. I'm doing it right.

[Faux pas]

78. Lol

same here!

[Hiraeth]

80. --

[PotatoChip]

98. Me too! And I only have 1 person on ignore. (nt)

[Fairgo]

86. me too!

I resisted ignore until recently. I have to recommend the deodorising qualities.

[Waiting For Everyman]

73. K&R The truth will out eventually.

[Kalidurga]

87. Oh no the Hillary brigade is going to be mad at this lady...

But as of this post not one disputes the facts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Yup

above I was told my sensors plays games with me

[Kalidurga]

92. Yep

The vote in Minneapolis did much the same thing. As that urban area voted in line with the inner ring suburbs, the rural areas of the state, and well every other part of the state.

[riderinthestorm]

96. Well they've tried to strip her of her agency. She's being "used" doncha know

She couldn't possibly be standing up for her own self and we're the shitty ones for standing up to applaud.

[katsy]

102. ^^^^^^ this

I've never seen so much hypocrisy in one thread.

This young woman deserves respect instead is marginalized on a democratic website no less.

Hypocrisy... I thought it was a republican value.

[vintx]

109. Yep, she strayed from the approved script.

She and anyone like her is simply erased.

[Kalidurga]

122. It's almost like Hillary supporters have never heard of Alice Walker

That is who this lady sounds like to me.

[Beacool]

115. Soooo, now Hillary is not that different from KKK women?

"In a stunningly poignant article, my Brother Ahmad Greene-Hayes hauntingly captures the violent nuances of a Clinton presidency. Referencing how racist white women formed the Women’s Ku Klux Klan not to challenge male dominance despite their own horizontal oppression, but ignite vertical violence against Black people.

White women weren’t passively complicit in the racial-sexual terror that pervaded black communities; they were active culprits — hands stained and streaming with black blood.

Genius bae Ahmad takes great pain in symbolically unpacking the Klan’s hood; the notorious regalia that is analogous to the racist hatred that post-racial America tries desperately to forget.

In the context of 21st century U.S. politics, “the hood” is not limited to white sheets. In fact, the hood reappears when white women, like Hillary Clinton, continue to enact militaristic violence in black communities and across the globe, but are excused because they are socialized and identify as women."

Yeah, right.......

[Chitown Kev]

123. Jeez

I just feel like saying that old line, "Yo' eyes may shine and yo' teeth might grit but..." line

[monicaangela]

127. History teaches us that the wealthy

The history of this nation is steeped in this sort of class struggle. Since inception, when wealthy land owners pitted populations against each other in order to control wealth we have been suffering this. Hillary Clinton plays the same game the rest of the Plutocrats play.

The more you know, the more you understand about the struggle that is going on in this nation. The criminalization of African Americans and other events are only a part of what has happened and is still happening.

[lovemydog]

134. Fanning flames

that nearly died out a few months ago?

[noiretextatique]

138. I am a black boomer, and I feel the exact same way

About both the Clintons.

[lovemydog]

146. Fair enough.

Do you feel Sanders is less blameless of voting for bills that contain some good provisions and some bad ones? If so, why?

[Jitter65]

161. Don't even try. Most of them don't even know what Bernie voted for or against.

And most don't really care. They are following Killer Mike and what they have been told to dislike about Hillary without really examining her record of activism. This is not to denigrate them but to make an observation from about the 60 or so millennials I know close up from volunteering with social service organizations in my area. A bunch of them are great young people with very good attitudes about helping the underserved in our area. They just admittedly say they never bothered to research much about Bernie or Hillary but they like the idea of free college and "free medical care" that some think is the same thing as single-payer.

Give them as much information as you can but don't lose much sleep over their non-acceptance.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

179. Subs