2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumbjo59
(1,166 posts)Crowing with delight over the death of man who was sodomized with a bayonet...
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)The man was pond scum, unless you believe the millions paid to the families of the Lockerbee bombing were just party favors.
I know drones, blood on our hands,oligarchs, MIC yada yada yada.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Owning a house & healthcare were considered human rights for Libyans. Their irrigation system was state of the art.
Then we came & he died. And their water system was destroyed.
Now ISIS rules there.
We suck.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511493611
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Are you kidding me?
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)My entire life I've witnessed it. You'll get nowhere rewriting history and singing the praises of dictators.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)and their lives are chaos now, shows just how UGLY -some- Americans can be. Its always the conservative ones.
Saudi Arabia is absolutely pummeling & destroying the people of Yemen now, with weapons we sold them after the manufacturers & Saudi Arabia paid million$ to the Clinton Foundation, &/or her SuperPACs. Innocent people trying to live their lives are dying now & their lives are destroyed. But that's all ok because our propaganda machine has told US Saudi Arabia is good. Forget the fact that every damn terrorist on 9/11 was from Saudi Arabia.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)You can refuse to acknowledge that there was a civil war erupting in Libya - people were sick of their dictator, and they killed him.
Yes, I'm conservative:
Any more personal insults you'd like to say?
peace13
(11,076 posts)I pretty sure WE killed him.
Gaddafi survived the strikes and took refuge in a large drainage pipe with several bodyguards. A nearby group of NTC fighters opened fire, wounding Gaddafi with gunshots to his leg and back. According to one NTC fighter, one of Gaddafi's own men also shot him in order to spare him from being arrested.[13][14] It is unclear if NATO aircraft were involved in helping secure Gaddafi's capture by Libyan forces on the ground.[11] A group of rebels approached the pipe where Gaddafi was hiding and ordered him to come out, which he did, albeit slowly. He was then dragged up to his feet as rebels shouted "Muammar, Muammar!"[15]
However, a UN report released in March 2012 revealed a different account of Gaddafi's capture. Gaddafi was wounded by grenade fragmentation, from a grenade thrown by one of his own men, that bounced off a wall and fell in front of Gaddafi, that shredded his flak jacket. He sat on the floor dazed and in shock, bleeding from a wound in the left temple. Then one of his group waved a white turban in surrender.[12]
Gaddafi was killed shortly afterwards. There are conflicting reports; according to one report, Gaddafi said "Please don't shoot!" prior to being shot,[16] and when questioned by Misratan rebel fighters about the damage done to Misrata by his forces, denied any involvement, and begged his captors not to hit him or kill him. One fighter demanded Gaddafi stand up, but he struggled to do so.[17] Gaddafi can be heard in one video saying "God forbids this" and "Do you know right from wrong?" when being shouted at by his captors.[18][19] In a video of his arrest he can be seen draped on the hood of a car, held by rebel fighters.[20][21] A senior NTC official said that no order was given to execute Gaddafi.[21] According to another NTC source, "they captured him alive and while he was being taken away, they beat him and then they killed him".[21] Mahmoud Jibril gave an alternative account, stating that "when the car was moving it was caught in crossfire between the revolutionaries and Gaddafi forces in which he was hit by a bullet in the head."[22] Several videos related to the death were broadcast by news channels and circulated via the internet. The first shows footage of Gaddafi alive, his face and shirt bloodied, stumbling and being dragged toward an ambulance by armed Islamic Extremists chanting "God is great" in Arabic.[5][6] The video appears to picture Gaddafi being sodomized with a bayonet.[23][24][25] Another shows Gaddafi, stripped to the waist, suffering from an apparent gunshot wound to the head, and in a pool of blood, together with jubilant fighters firing automatic weapons in the air.[5][6] A third video, posted on YouTube, shows fighters "hovering around his lifeless-looking body, posing for photographs and yanking his limp head up and down by the hair."[5][6][26] Another video taken, most likely after his death, shows him being stripped naked and jeered at by his captors,[27]
In late September 2012, reports surfaced about the involvement of French secret services in the tracking and killing of Muammar Gaddafi. According to some sources, Gaddafi was in fact killed by a French spy who infiltrated the mob of rebels that captured Gaddafi, and shot him in the head after his capture. The motive was alleged to be to prevent Gaddafi from being interrogated and revealing links with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.[28] Former interim prime minister Mahmoud Jibril, told an Egyptian television that it was a foreign agent who mixed with the revolutionary brigades to kill Qaddafi.[29] Former NTC head of foreign intelligence Rami al-Obeidi confirmed Jibril's assertion, stating that "French intelligence played a direct role in the death of Gaddafi, including his killing" and claiming that Bashar al-Assad sold Gaddafi's satellite telephone number to French spies operating in Sirte in exchange for a "grace period" and less political pressure on the Syrian government by France.[30] Diplomatic sources in Tripoli stated that if a foreign agent was responsible for Gaddafi's death, it was certainly a French agent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Muammar_Gaddafi
Not sure who "WE" is? Can you clarify?
PufPuf23
(8,767 posts)Libya was on a trend of modernization and a being a moderate secular nation.
Libya wanted independence and their right to benefit from their own natural resources.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Using oil money to spend lavishly at home doesn't get Khadafi off the hook for financing terrorism abroad.
But hey, go tell the relatives of the Pan Am 103 victims all about that...irrigation system?
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)If we apply the same logic, we should be out for their blood too.
Sure there was no definitive evidence Saudi Leaders knew about the plan to attack US (but we know they did) and there was never any definitive evidence Gaddafi knew about Pan Am 103 in advance.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)But you go on and keep championing a man who supported terrorism for 4 decades.
Let us know if that works out for Sanders in the polls.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)you to believe. But its perfectly OK to back the woman who has absolutely cuddled up with Saudi Arabia. Where they treat women worse than anywhere in the ME and oh yeah, killed thousands of Americans on 9/11.
Saudis Exploding Christmas Gifts From Hillary Clinton
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/medea-benjamin/hillary-clinton-saudi-arabia_b_9374490.html
Clinton Foundation Donors Got Weapons Deals From Hillary Clinton's State Department
http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-foundation-donors-got-weapons-deals-hillary-clintons-state-department-1934187
Hillary Clinton, Saudi Arabia and Weapons Manufactures
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/11/1499723/-Hillary-Clinton-Saudi-Arabia-and-Weapons-Manufacturers
Hillary moneyman highlights new Saudi connection
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillary-moneyman-highlights-new-saudi-connection-194828485.html
choie
(4,111 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)thats clarity
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)These things are not a joke! Well to those with character anyway!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)is so incredibly different from what she projects when she is posing for the cameras.
This video was between takes. She most likely never thought it would see the light of day.
Would be interesting to compare her demeanor during the interview with this ugly, callous display.
No wonder she's so overly scripted. She's playing a character, someone she is not.
Just....no.
reddread
(6,896 posts)the Clinton's were said to be quite astute and utilized the satellite feeds to stay ahead of others during the 92 campaign. What was that fascinating movie?
should be a must watch, whatever its called.
certainly gave some interesting perspective.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Response to Tarc (Reply #10)
Post removed
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)Engaging. I do not consider Bernie Sanders "the enemy" as the OP considers Hillary to be; it's regrettable, hateful rhetoric that has no place in this forum.
A point reinforced by the fact that te OP had his post hidden by jury.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)That person never said that Hillary was the "enemy". Those were you words.
That's not an honest discussion.
I am also highly critical and disgusted by her behavior when she thought she wasn't on camera.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)towards a Democratic candidate on the Democratic Underground.
Some people need to start getting in line. As we already heard from the admins a few weeks ago, there will be consequences for those who continue to use this kind of rhetoric against our party's candidates.
peace13
(11,076 posts)It doesn't seem to matter if we are lead by D's or R's. I think it's OK to say that I'm uncomfortable with a person laughing at a death that they arranged. I feel like death, even of a bad guy is sad and not for another human to decide. It is certainly not something to mock. The way she laughed and was proud makes me feel like she might have the guys ear hanging from her garter belt. So you see laughing at death causes some people's minds distress and makes them go to places they never wanted to be. For the respect of all people we should never mock senseless death.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)That is my primary concern with Sanders in office, is that he has a lack of preparedness in that area.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)And living with them afterwards in a manner that appreciates the gravity of the choice, rather than a theatrical "Off with their heads, cheerfulness"
Clinton's reaction in the video suggests she didn't grasp that releasing violence, especially in pursuit of assassination, is a horrible thing that damages even the victorious.
Victory is never to be celebrated too much. The end of hostility bring joy of relief, but with deep appreciation for the gravity of the work of reconciliation. The Clinton video shows an absence of integrating that understanding into her character.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Clinton supporters are succeeding pushing fear of what might be worse than Clinton.
That's doesn't exclude acceptance that Clinton has some troubling personality features.
peace13
(11,076 posts)....and he has a conscience. Two great qualities for President! My papa always said...you don't need all of the answers right away...you just need to be able to recognize the right one when you find it.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)One would think you'd know that Democratic Underground has never been a place where people "get in line". In fact, telling people to get in line here normally has the exact opposite effect. Authoritarians aren't DU's favorite people in general; and for some they're completely antithetical to our very existence.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)...the sort of inter-party guttersniping that is going on in GD-P will be brought to a screeching halt by the admins. The backers of the 2nd-place person have to swallow a bit of pride and move on.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)But you are ordering people to "start getting in line" at this very moment and the nomination has NOT been won yet.
PufPuf23
(8,767 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Pure, unadulterated evil. Anyone who can laugh about the brutal demise of someone else-- dictator or saint-- is more sick than modern psychology can fix.