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Fri Mar 25, 2016, 08:45 AM

If any of this counts as "progressive", I'll eat my hat.

The Third Way has proven to me that the mantra of "By the people, for the people" where democracy is considered is long dead. Oligarchy; corporate bribery and graft running rampant-- and you want us to support this. I present to you "the real progressive candidate"-- read as immense doubt placed on the entirety of that quote; considering I never knew warmongering and corporatist kowtowing counted for progressivism. The Third Way is not about "by the people, for the people", it's about "from the people, to the corporations". I didn't enlist to fight for a bunch of coprophilic plutocrats. And that is what you want to deliver us to.

Foreign Policy

Iraq
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/hillarys-pro-iraq-war-vot_b_9112232.html
"Hillary has now apologized for her Iraq War vote. But even her apology feels more like political calculation than genuine contrition. A meaningful apology would be directed to the Iraq war vets and Iraqi civilians who lost life or limb, to the American taxpayer for wasting over a trillion dollars, and to the rest of the world for making it less safe.

Hillary Clinton lost the 2008 Democratic nomination to Barack Obama in large part because of her Iraq vote so she must now try to immunize herself with her weak apology in the hopes that 8 years later, Democratic caucus and primary voters have short memories.

Moreover, none of her apologies give any indication of what she learned from her supposedly mistaken vote. Has she learned that using American military power to instigate regime change in the Middle East leads more often than not to chaos, anarchy, increased terrorist threats, refugee crises, and even the destabilization of Europe?"



Syria
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/19/hillary-clinton-isis-strategy-ground-troops-airstrikes-no-fly-zone-syria
"Hillary Clinton distanced herself from Barack Obama’s strategy for defeating Islamic State extremists on Thursday in a sweeping foreign policy speech that called for greater use of American ground troops and an intensified air campaign.

Though ruling out deploying the tens of thousands of US troops seen in Iraq and Afghanistan, the former of secretary of state made clear she would take a notably more hawkish approach than the current administration if she is elected president."


Libya
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&_r=0
"This is the story of how a woman whose Senate vote for the Iraq war may have doomed her first presidential campaign nonetheless doubled down and pushed for military action in another Muslim country. As she once again seeks the White House, campaigning in part on her experience as the nation's chief diplomat, an examination of the intervention she championed shows her at what was arguably her moment of greatest influence as secretary state."

"Libya's descent into chaos began with a rushed decision to go to war, made in what one top official called a "shadow of uncertainty" as to Colonel Qaddafi's intentions. The mission inexorably evolved even as Mrs. Clinton foresaw some of the hazards of toppling another Middle Eastern strongman. She pressed for a secret American program that supplied arms to rebel militias, an effort never before confirmed."


Saudi Arabia [y'know, the people who made ISIS's brand of Islam]
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2016/01/10/445291/US-Hillary-Clinton-Saudi-Arabia-/
“It’s tough to call her comments anything except ‘the pot calling the kettle black,’” John Miranda said in an interview with Press TV.

The Clinton Foundation and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign have enjoyed “numerous donations from Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabia’s various corporations and princes that have dealings with the United States,” he noted.

“For her to say that we need to talk to them [Saudis] about this; she honestly could care less,” he added.

Miranda said that Saudi Arabia is committing the same crimes that the American people associate with the Daesh (ISIL) terrorist group rather than a long-time US ally in the Middle East.

“Everything that’s happening with the unrest in northern Iraq and Syria, they are doing the same exact things that happen in Saudi Arabia,” he said.

“Saudi Arabia is also one of the countries that is funding the terrorists in Syria and northern Iraq, so obviously they are practicing the same type of things,” the analyst added.

“Hillary Clinton is a complete hypocrite. That is the only way I can describe her,” Miranda stressed.


Honduras
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/08/exclusive_hillary_clinton_sold_out_honduras_lanny_davis_corporate_cash_and_the_real_story_about_the_death_of_a_latin_america_democracy/
Though it’s less sexy than Benghazi, the crisis following a coup in Honduras in 2009 has Hillary Clinton’s fingerprints all over it, and her alleged cooperation with oligarchic elites during the affair does much to expose Clinton’s newfound, campaign-season progressive rhetoric as hollow. Moreover, the Honduran coup is something of a radioactive issue with fallout that touches many on Team Clinton, including husband Bill, once put into a full context.


Colombia
http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clinton-pushes-colombia-free-trade-agreement-latest-email-dump-2326068
"One of the 2011 emails from Clinton to U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman and Clinton aide Robert Hormats has a subject line “Sandy Levin” — a reference to the Democratic congressman who serves on the House Ways and Means Committee, which oversees U.S. trade policy. In the email detailing her call with Levin, she said the Michigan lawmaker “appreciates the changes that have been made, the national security arguments and Santos's reforms” -- the latter presumably a reference to Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos. She concludes the message about the call with Levin by saying, “I told him that at the rate we were going, Columbian [sic] workers were going to end up w the same or better rights than workers in Wisconsin and Indiana and, maybe even, Michigan.”

Froman — a former Citigroup executive who as trade representative was lobbying for passage of the deal — responded by thanking Clinton for her "help and support.” Hormats, a former vice chairman of Goldman Sachs who subsequently was hired by Clinton at the State Department, later chimed in, telling her “terrific job” and “GREAT line on Columbian [sic] workers!!!!!”


Offering federal contracts to Blackwater of all people (Y'know, those people that Chelsea Manning, God help her, leaked had been involved with child sex trafficking)

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/24/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-under-federal-investigation/
What began as an investigation into Prince’s attempts to sell defense services in Libya and other countries in Africa has widened to a probe of allegations that Prince received assistance from Chinese intelligence to set up an account for his Libya operations through the Bank of China.

. . .

“You push the buttons on the company, but the main bad guy gets away and does it again,” said an official who tried to prosecute Prince.

Prince has run up against ITAR in the past. In 2010, Prince sold most of his equity in the companies that fell under the Blackwater umbrella. Claiming that left-wing activists, Democratic politicians, and lawsuits had destroyed his companies, he left the United States and became a resident of Abu Dhabi. The remnant of his network was renamed Academi LLC. Federal prosecutors eventually attempted to prosecute Prince’s former companies, culminating in a 2012 deferred prosecution agreement to settle a lengthy list of U.S. legal and regulatory violations committed from 2005 through 2008 when Prince was in charge, including ITAR violations.

(NOTE: HRC’S STATE DEPT WAS THE FOLLOW-ON CONTRACTOR TO CIA CONTRACTS WITH BLACKWATER)

A senior official involved with the Blackwater-related litigation, who has since left the government, told The Intercept that the Obama administration’s continued willingness to award contracts to former Blackwater entities while the case was active was a fatal impediment to a successful prosecution. The official, comparing the former Blackwater empire to a drug syndicate, added that prosecutors could not get anyone under Prince to testify against him personally. “This is very much the concern,” the former official told The Intercept. “You push the buttons on the company, but the main bad guy gets away and does it again.”
No criminal charges were filed against Prince.

In federal court filings, Prince’s former companies admitted to providing — on numerous occasions during Prince’s tenure — defense goods and services to foreign governments without the required State Department licensing. In some cases, they admitted to providing services even after failing to obtain a license from the State Department.

As part of their settlement with the government, Prince’s companies ultimately agreed to pay nearly $50 million in fines and other penalties and to implement compliance procedures to ensure such illegal activities did not continue. In September 2015, the deferred charges were dismissed after the U.S. government certified that the companies had “fully complied” with all of its conditions.

At that point, Prince was already deep into creating new companies registered outside of the United States and appeared poised to return to the conduct that had marked his time at the helm of Blackwater.




Social Policy
TPP Support
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160129/23451533466/hillary-clinton-flip-flopped-tpp-before-so-big-business-lobbyists-are-confident-shell-really-flip-back-after-election.shtml
Isn't politics just great? Politicians aren't exactly known for their honesty on things, often saying things to voters just to get elected. But Hillary Clinton's views on the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement have received quite a lot of scrutiny. After all, while she was at the State Department, she was a strong supporter of the TPP, and so it was a bit of a surprise last October when she came out against it. Of course, the fact that the deal is fairly unpopular with the Democratic Party base probably contributed quite a lot to that decision -- and Clinton's weak attempt at revisionist history to pretend she never really supported it.

But, of course, when you do a pandering flip flop like that just to get votes, you have to remember that plenty of people will see right through it, and some of those people might reveal the strategy. Like, for instance, the head of the US Chamber of Commerce, the world's largest lobbying organization, who is leading the charge in support of the TPP. Its top lobbyist, Tom Donohue, flat out admitted recently that he knows that if she actually got elected, she'll revert back to supporting the TPP, because of course she will:
The Chamber president said he expected Hillary Clinton would ultimately support the TPP if she becomes the Democratic nominee for president and is elected. He argued that she has publicly opposed the deal chiefly because her main challenger, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), has also done so. "If she were to get nominated, if she were to be elected, I have a hunch that what runs in the family is you get a little practical if you ever get the job," he said.


Destruction of internet freedom
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/09/hillary_clinton_and_internet_freedom/
What Hillary Clinton is condemning here is exactly that which not only the administration in which she serves, but also she herself, has done in one of the most important Internet freedom cases of the last decade: WikiLeaks. And beyond that case, both Clinton specifically and the Obama administration generally have waged a multi-front war on Internet freedom.

First, let us recall that many of WikiLeaks’ disclosures over the last 18 months have directly involved improprieties, bad acts and even illegalities on the part of Clinton’s own State Department. As part of WikiLeaks’ disclosures, she was caught ordering her diplomats at the U.N. to engage in extensive espionage on other diplomats and U.N. officials; in a classified memo, she demanded “forensic technical details about the communications systems used by top UN officials, including passwords and personal encryption keys used in private and commercial networks for official communications” as well as “credit card numbers, email addresses, phone, fax and pager numbers and even frequent-flyer account numbers” for a whole slew of diplomats, actions previously condemned by the U.S. as illegal. WikiLeaks also revealed that the State Department — very early on in the Obama administration — oversaw a joint effort between its diplomats and GOP officials to pressure and coerce Spain to block independent judicial investigations into the torture policies of Bush officials: a direct violation of then-candidate Obama’s pledge to allow investigations to proceed as well being at odds with the White House’s dismissal of questions about the Spanish investigation as merely “hypothetical.” WikiLeaks disclosures also revealed that public denials from Clinton’s State Department about the U.S. role in Yemen were at best deeply misleading. And, of course, those disclosures revealed a litany of other truly bad acts by the U.S. Government generally.


Manhattan Project against encryption
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/12/hillary-clinton-wants-manhattan-like-project-to-break-encryption/
Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has called for a "Manhattan-like project" to help law enforcement break into encrypted communications. This is in reference to the Manhattan Project, the top-secret concentrated research effort which resulted in the US developing nuclear weapons during World War II.

At Saturday's Democratic debate (transcript here), moderator Martha Raddatz asked Clinton about Apple CEO Tim Cook's statements that any effort to break encryption would harm law-abiding citizens.


PATRIOT Act support
https://ballotpedia.org/Hillary_Clinton
Clinton voted in support of HR 3162 - USA Patriot Act of 2001. The bill passed on October 25, 2001, by a vote of 98-1. The bill allowed law enforcement more authority in searching homes, tapping phone lines and tracking internet information while searching for suspected terrorists
.


Secure Fence Act
https://ballotpedia.org/Hillary_Clinton
Clinton voted in support of HR 6061 - Secure Fence Act of 2006. The bill passed on September 29, 2006, by a vote of 80-19. The bill authorized the construction of 700 miles of additional fencing along the United States-Mexico border. The Democratic Party split on the vote.



H-1B Visa support


Corporatist Tax Loopholes

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-biggest-tax-scam-ever-20140827?page=2

The analysis reveals that the biggest names in corporate America are boycotting the U.S. tax system, en masse. Top offenders include giants from high-tech (Microsoft, $76 billion); Big Pharma (Pfizer, $69 billion); Big Oil (Exxon­Mobil, $47 billion); investment banks (Goldman Sachs, $22 billion); Big Tobacco (Philip Morris, $20 billion); discount retailers (Wal-Mart, $19 billion); fast-food chains (McDonald's, $16 billion) – even heavy machinery (Caterpillar, $17 billion). General Electric has $110 billion stashed offshore, and enjoys an effective tax rate of four percent – 31 points lower than its statutory obligation to the IRS.

The Kennedy-era reforms kept corporate tax avoidance substantially in check through both Democratic and Republican administrations. Even Reagan cracked down on multinational tax dodgers with the tax reform of 1986. But changes in recent years – including one in 1997 and another in 2006 – have, according to a recent Senate investigation, "nearly completely undercut" the ability of the Treasury to tax the paperwork profits of multinationals. The original sin was committed by the Clinton Treasury – then led by Robert Rubin, later a top executive at Citigroup and a major player in the subprime mortgage crisis. In 1997, Treasury changed regulations to permit corporations to decide for themselves which subsidiaries were relevant for tax purposes, simply by ticking off a box on a tax form. But these changes, intended to simplify the tax code, also opened a colossal loophole.


By telling the IRS to treat certain offshore subsidiaries as "disregarded entities" – a.k.a. "tax nothings" – corporate accountants could divert and mask passive income, making it untaxable abroad. "I don't think they realized how much check-the-box would lubricate international tax avoidance," says Kleinbard.

For a brief moment, Treasury sought to reverse course. But lobbyists from firms including Monsanto, Morgan Stanley, IBM and Philip Morris locked arms to defend their de facto tax cut. The Clinton Treasury backed down. Soon, some administration officials took a spin through the revolving door – raising troubling questions about the relationship between corporate America and its regulators. William Morris, who became the Clinton Treasury's associate international tax counsel around the time the regulations were enacted, jumped to GE, where today he orchestrates the firm's global tax policy.




This is the so called pre-ordained candidate for the Democratic Party. And when candidates like this are being fielded, and an Independent who is more democratic than the whole DNC put together has to come in and save the fuckin' party, the establishment has some serious soul searching to engage in, that is, if they still have souls to search.

If the Democratic party wants my vote, then they can nominate a candidate who deserves it.

92 replies, 5527 views

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Arrow 92 replies Author Time Post
Reply If any of this counts as "progressive", I'll eat my hat. (Original post)
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 OP
vintx Mar 2016 #1
DanTex Mar 2016 #2
polly7 Mar 2016 #3
DanTex Mar 2016 #4
polly7 Mar 2016 #5
DanTex Mar 2016 #6
polly7 Mar 2016 #7
DanTex Mar 2016 #8
polly7 Mar 2016 #12
DanTex Mar 2016 #15
polly7 Mar 2016 #18
DanTex Mar 2016 #20
polly7 Mar 2016 #23
DanTex Mar 2016 #25
polly7 Mar 2016 #26
DanTex Mar 2016 #28
polly7 Mar 2016 #29
DanTex Mar 2016 #31
polly7 Mar 2016 #33
DanTex Mar 2016 #34
polly7 Mar 2016 #37
DanTex Mar 2016 #39
polly7 Mar 2016 #40
DanTex Mar 2016 #41
polly7 Mar 2016 #43
DanTex Mar 2016 #46
polly7 Mar 2016 #49
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #56
polly7 Mar 2016 #58
BillZBubb Mar 2016 #76
polly7 Mar 2016 #81
Buddyblazon Mar 2016 #19
DanTex Mar 2016 #24
Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #9
polly7 Mar 2016 #16
Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #62
EndElectoral Mar 2016 #10
pdsimdars Mar 2016 #11
Punkingal Mar 2016 #13
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #32
polly7 Mar 2016 #38
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #60
polly7 Mar 2016 #61
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #63
polly7 Mar 2016 #64
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #65
polly7 Mar 2016 #66
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #69
polly7 Mar 2016 #70
Punkingal Mar 2016 #42
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #44
BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #67
dana_b Mar 2016 #73
vintx Mar 2016 #14
Rebkeh Mar 2016 #30
NWCorona Mar 2016 #17
Broward Mar 2016 #21
FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #22
tk2kewl Mar 2016 #27
Trajan Mar 2016 #35
Scuba Mar 2016 #36
Onlooker Mar 2016 #45
Mbrow Mar 2016 #47
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #48
Dem2 Mar 2016 #50
Metric System Mar 2016 #51
polly7 Mar 2016 #54
Metric System Mar 2016 #72
polly7 Mar 2016 #75
dchill Mar 2016 #52
daleanime Mar 2016 #53
closeupready Mar 2016 #55
Gwhittey Mar 2016 #57
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #71
Faux pas Mar 2016 #59
SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2016 #68
SHRED Mar 2016 #74
MisterP Mar 2016 #77
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #78
MisterP Mar 2016 #84
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #85
MisterP Mar 2016 #86
farleftlib Mar 2016 #79
ibegurpard Mar 2016 #80
Fuddnik Mar 2016 #82
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #83
bvar22 Mar 2016 #87
tokenlib Mar 2016 #88
Duppers Mar 2016 #89
Doctor_J Mar 2016 #90
noiretextatique Mar 2016 #91
SMC22307 Mar 2016 #92

Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 08:59 AM

1. K&R

 

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:03 AM

2. I thought y'all would have figured out by now...

that googling every negative thing you can about Hillary and posting the google dump all over the internet is not a winning strategy. I mean, there must be millions of these across the web, and Bernie is still getting trounced in the actual votes.

Try a different tack.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:04 AM

3. Truth hurts!!! Gotta derail, gotta make Clinton a victim, gotta ..... nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:05 AM

4. It's not "truth" and it doesn't "hurt." Check the delegate totals if you want to see who's hurting.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:10 AM

5. Sure it does. It burns. I don't give a * about delegates,

I care about innocent millions around the world suffering d/t warhawks and the lies in western propaganda that enable them.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:11 AM

6. Well, it doesn't burn me, since I care about delegates and not internet smears. YMMV.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:12 AM

7. 'Smear's, lol. 'Truth' for all those whose lives have been ended or ruined by it. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:13 AM

8. Like I said, try a different tack. The internet smear approach has failed.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:17 AM

12. It's telling that the ruin of lives equates to 'internet smears' for you.

Nothing matters but maintaining your status quo. I get that.

So many around the world though have no say in theirs, or even if they're going to be alive tomorrow because of all of this.

Selfish, self-entitled and perfectly suited for who you're supporting who's actually pushed for it and wants more.

It's thinking like this that makes me lose all hope for humanity at times .......... then I see people like the OP and know that there are even more that do care and want a voice. You want to shut them up. Try harder though, people aren't stupid.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:20 AM

15. The smear is blaming Hillary for the ruining of those lives.

And what's worse, the people posting these smears are frequently the same ones who are pushing Bernie or Bust, and thereby effectively helping Trump get elected. So you'll forgive me if I don't take their claims of caring about ruined lives seriously. They care about hating Hillary.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:22 AM

18. And that is THE TRUTH.

The rest of your post is false and self-pitying bullshit.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:24 AM

20. What's true is that Bernie or Busters are helping Trump get elected. Anyone who does that

obviously does not care about the suffering of their fellow humans.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:27 AM

23. No, that she caused much of the horror - KNOWING how bad it would be.

I don't care about your election, except that I fear another warhawk with the most brutal weapons and foreign policy on earth - I care about all those who've already been, and will be, targeted.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:31 AM

25. No, she did not "cause much of the horror." That is utterly ludicrious.

Speaking of the most brutal weapons on earth, that's one (of many) really good reasons to do everything in our power to prevent Trump from winning the election. Surely you agree that we should all vote D in November regardless of who gets nominated.

Right?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:34 AM

26. Yeah ................. she did. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:35 AM

28. No she didn't. And you didn't answer my question. Are you voting D in November?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:37 AM

29. I just told you. I don't even vote there.

I do however have the right to discuss citizens who are not in the U.S. but are having their lives destroyed in horrible, ugly ways.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511568784

And YES, she did. Please stop assuming people are brainwashed by your MSM and the propaganda you're trying to help spread. Lives of so many are already ruined and many more at risk. Half of Yemen's children are hungry - many have gotten ill and died, or been bombed - cluster bombs have been used - the country is being purposefully destroyed with weapons from Saudi Arabia gotten through deals with her Foundation while SOS. HRW has condemned much of Yemen's ruin as war-crimes. Has she defended this at all?
https://thewallwillfall.wordpress.com/

How about using lies to destroy Libya using western funded and trained Al-Qaeda rebels? Has she defended that? How about the ruin of Iraq she not only voted for, but pushed for - that apology 'mistake' seems to be complete bullshit as she fully supported PNAC which explicitly spelled out regime-change in Iraq long before 2003. She later touted it as a business opportunity! How about pushing Romania to allow fracking against the protests of a huge number of the Romanian people - any mention of that?

Like I said, please don't assume people are blind to all of this - and you have no say in who comments on it or where they're from - until your foreign policy stops killing, mutilating and making refugees of millions around the world, you have no ability to limit anything, period.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:39 AM

31. I don't see the answer. Is that a "yes" or a "no"?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:45 AM

33. Are you twelve? nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #33)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:46 AM

34. Yes or no? Why the dodging? Why the personal attacks? Why is this so complicated?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:48 AM

37. uhhhh .................. I don't vote there. Did you miss that?

Trying in some super duper sneaky way to get me banned?

You're tricky, DanTex!

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Response to polly7 (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:50 AM

39. Thanks, yes I missed it. Would you be so kind to share your opinion of the Bernie or Bust movement?

I'm assuming you agree with me that it's the most idiotic thing in the world, right? I mean who in their right mind can claim to care about the lives of others and then facilitate a Trump presidency?

And no, I'm not trying to get you banned. BoB is allowed here until the end of the primary. There are plenty of BoBs here, I'm just trying to get your opinion of them.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:51 AM

40. Start a new thread on that. You've derailed this one enough as it is. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #40)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:52 AM

41. I think it's relevant to this one, since the people spreading the Hillary-hate are most often

BoBs, which in my mind implies that their concern about the well-being of others is just a facade. Do you agree?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:56 AM

43. You can't even talk about her wrt the suffering she's caused ... no need to take you seriously

at all. Why would I bother with answering to your desperate pleas to help derail? Come on .......... you've got to know how obvious you are. Keep your status -quo - good for you - like I said, millions in the world don't have that ability because of what they've already been subjected to and millions more will suffer for further ambitions. You don't give a * - just say it! Stop with the Bernie bull* - he's not the subject of this thread. Start a new one on him.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:01 AM

46. I did talk about it. It's preposterous to claim that she "caused" things like the Syrian Civil War.

But here's the thing. Bernie has already lost the primary, and it's going to be Hillary vs the GOP. So all this Hillary bashing is pointless. The only relevant question is the one I asked you: how do you feel about Hillary vs Trump?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #46)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:04 AM

49. You're hilarious. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:16 AM

56. Where do you vote? nt

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:19 AM

58. In Canada. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #33)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:47 PM

76. You are trying to have a discussion with a fanatic. Such an effort is pointless. I suggest IGNORE.

No truth about Hillary is to be admitted in their words. Any rationalization is acceptable.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #76)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:59 PM

81. You are right. And I have no idea how anyone can rationalize anything

she's helped to cause in the ME and NA ....... the facts are out there and have been for years. It's actually kind of stunning to watch.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:22 AM

19. I think the difference between you and I, Dan...

 

Is that you simply want to win.

I, in comparison, am interested in the direction our country is headed.

Congrats on your win. It obviously means more to you than working for the country we deserve.

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Response to Buddyblazon (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:27 AM

24. That's not true at all. Yes, I want Hillary to win, and you (presumably) want Bernie to win.

But our reasons for wanting our respective candidates to win is the same: the future of the country. I happen to think that the future of the country would be better under Hillary, and I have my reasons (the main one is I don't think Bernie would hold up to GOP attacks).

Here's the thing. If Hillary were to lose the primary, I would obviously support Bernie in the general. But a substantial number of people here on DU are aligned with the "Bernie or Bust" ideology of letting Trump win if Hillary becomes the nominee. In general (though not always), the harshest Hillary critics are the BoBs. And regardless of how one feels about H vs B, it goes with out saying that nobody who wants to let Trump into the white house cares the slightest bit about where the country is heading.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:14 AM

9. "...her apology feels more like political calculation than genuine contrition."

 

Princess Weathervane in a nutshell...

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:21 AM

16. She later said Iraq should be thought of as a business opportunity.

I knew that before it even began, but to hear it outright was pretty surprising.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:25 AM

62. Yeesh!

 

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:14 AM

10. Thanks for the comprehensive analysis of Kissinger..er...HRC

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:17 AM

11. A nice, LONG list of particulars. . . . that's always a good thing to have around

 

when they try to convince us to vote for Hillary because, well, she's so awesome . . . . whatever!

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:19 AM

13. Impressive OP.

And scary as hell.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:43 AM

32. I've been compiling this stuff for a month now.

Deadly stuff; I'll probably pass in my forties from some sort of internet-transmitted cancer just compiling all of this shameful dreck in one place.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:49 AM

38. I've been compiling it since before the first bombs were dropped in Iraq, but

have tossed out a lot of it as newer, more detailed info like yours has come out. Don't let it make you sick. But ....... good for you and all of this, it's great that so many care about all the others in this world.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:23 AM

60. Where were you on this in 2004

When Kerry was running and had voted the very same way as 98 senators? Or were you just happy to have the swift boaters take him down along with election fraud? Such vitriol is interesting.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #60)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:24 AM

61. I was on another board - always - protesting the suffering of millions. That's where. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #61)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:26 AM

63. My question...

did you exhibit the same vitriol against Kerry as you are now exhibiting against Clinton?

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #63)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:26 AM

64. I expressed the same 'truth' (lmfao at 'vitriol') as I do and did against everyone

involved in hurting others around the globe.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #64)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:27 AM

65. in other words, no.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #65)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:29 AM

66. Now, now ........... don't lie. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #66)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:26 AM

69. hmm? BTW Thanks

for your interest in our elections.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #69)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:28 AM

70. No worries! I have great interest in all elections ........ especially ones that put in place

leaders who've targeted sovereign nations for ruin - those people are my brothers and sisters. I don't restrict my caring by lines on a map.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:54 AM

42. Naw, you won't.

Thank the universe the internet is still here for you to use. I am bookmarking to take advantage of your hard work!

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #42)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:59 AM

44. Please do. The more this is blown up, the better. nt

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:49 AM

67. Good job

I have never even tried to compile it. If I did, it would have to be via bookmarks because my hard drive probably doesn't have the capacity to store it.

Whenever an issue comes up with Hillary, a 30 second internet search usually produces more stuff than I can handle.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:34 PM

73. very

It's a lot of work to put together all of those facts and to look at her "accomplishments".

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:20 AM

14. By pushing this candidate, the DNC is actively forcing a split in this party. nt

 

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Response to vintx (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:37 AM

30. It's a fear tactic

It's going to fail too. A split, [strike]if[/strike] [strike]when[/strike] if it happens, will be their own doing. Fear is no longer an effective means to [strike]control[/strike] motivate. They have a choice, if they don't take the righteous one, it's on them.

I hope they choose wisely - I remain optimistic.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:22 AM

17. I think your hat and stomach are definitely safe

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:24 AM

21. The corporate, neocon takeover of the Dem Party is complete.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:25 AM

22. Cuba is undemocratic

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:34 AM

27. U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

 

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:46 AM

35. Excellent compendium ...

 

BOOKMARK this baby!

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:47 AM

36. War is peace, up is down, black is white and Hillary is progressive.

 

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:00 AM

45. Nice campaign piece

 

In each case, you're presenting a myopic and simplistic view of the situation.

Even on the Iraq vote, one has to factor in the fact that 75% of Americans at the time supported the war and that New York was highly traumatized by 9/11. That was not the case for VT. One also has to consider what Hillary said when voting for the Iraq resolution, when she clearly issued the expectation that this was not a vote for war but a vote for a process that could lead to war.

On Libya, that was part of the progressive Obama strategy of supporting the Arab Spring. The Arab Spring did not achieve its ends, but it did demonstrate throughout the region that secular thinking and progressive individuals there have a lot of power. While some of the left have adapted the opportunistic view that it would have been better to leave in place the right wing dictatorship of Qadaffi, that is not a progressive view either.

On the Patriot Act, as you noted it passed 98-1. It reflected the profound fear in the nation at the time. If you were an adult in 2001, you would be aware that it was complex emotional time when people were afraid to take subways, go to work in big buildings, etc. Perhaps you're from a boring state like Vermont that terrorists probably wouldn't bother to attack, in which case it is easier to be brave and altruistic.

My point is merely that your oversimplifications suggest either you're engaged in political manipulation or you're oversimplifying complex situations.

Let's remember, the reason Bernie is able to be as pure as the driven snow was because he was a liberal in a liberal state, did not have deal with a racially, economically, politically, or otherwise diverse population and did not have deal with particularly diverse ideological, political, and religious values. It's very easy to be pure when you aren't facing the headwinds of the opposition.

But, if we look at Bernie's record, the one area where in Vermont he had to deal with the headwinds of the opposition, he folded -- he voted against the Brady bill 5 times and has been quite weak on gun control. Now, imagine if his state also had an active right wing, a powerful pro-war lobby, a strong Wall Street contingent, would he have remained steadfast? Certainly, his support for the stealth bomber (profitable to VT) suggests he would not.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:02 AM

47. k&R

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:02 AM

48. And for anyone who I have on my ignore list

No, I'm not going to fall for the bait as to whether I'm voting D in November.

I vote for policy, not labels, delegates, or endorsements.

Like I said. If the Democratic party deserves my vote, they can damn well nominate someone who deserves it.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:05 AM

50. Thanks for putting "third way" in the first sentence

I stopped reading there, now to trash this vulgar, but pitiful, waste of electrons.
This is the DU member formerly known as Dem2.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:11 AM

51. I will never "feel the bern" and luckily I will never have to seeing as he's losing.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:15 AM

54. You will never, ever ......... because you've never been among the millions

who've felt the 'burn' of lying invasions that have dropped bombs on them, used horrific chemicals that burned people alive and are causing deformities in babies since and now being born, picked up a little cluster bomb toy and had your limbs blown off - been forced to flee from your home and possibly drown at sea.

Of course you haven't felt the bern. These people don't affect your personally.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #54)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:32 PM

72. That's cute. You're pretending as if Sanders has never voted in favor of military funding.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #72)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:36 PM

75. There's nothing cute about suffering.

Sanders voted to fund necessities for troops who were already sent to fight and possibly die. Would you have preferred he take Rumsfeld's position "You go to war with the army you have!".

Sanders didn't believe in letting people in what were turned into some of the most dangerous places on earth go without the protection and basic necessities they needed to survive. Terrible, eh?

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:12 AM

52. K&R!

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:14 AM

53. K&R.....

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:15 AM

55. She will NOT be getting my vote.

 

K&R

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:16 AM

57. It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'progressive' is.

 

nt

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Response to Gwhittey (Reply #57)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:47 AM

71. You owe me a new cup of tea

because the one I was drinking is now all over the monitor.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 10:21 AM

59. Kickin' for the truth!

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 11:23 AM

68. Calling all Hillary supporters ...

 

This???

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:35 PM

74. K and R

 

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:54 PM

77. and if you don't like it, uh PRIVILEGE!

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Response to MisterP (Reply #77)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:55 PM

78. All I can do is laugh and add people to my ignore queue when they start going on about that.

I'm three different levels of disadvantaged, and these mfs want to call me privileged... Ain't that some shit?

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #78)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 01:23 PM

84. don't go on Tumblr: I haven't SEEN a Black gay vet put in a wheelchair by their Amazonian

activism being told they have cis privilege by a straight 19yo suburbanite fresh off their two-quarter theory seminar, but I'm absolutely sure it's happened

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Response to MisterP (Reply #84)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 01:25 PM

85. Made that mistake already.

And it probably has tbqh.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #85)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 02:52 PM

86. just look at her campaigning on Latinos: Clinton's proxies

falsely claim Sanders' backers are wicked Whites and that they chanted "English only!"; she runs a heartstrings ad in Spanish about rescuing families from deportation

meanwhile Clinton critics note the tremendous hypocrisy of someone bragging in '14 of toppling regimes in Central America and crowing "send them BACK!" to "teach them a lesson"

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:55 PM

79. Great job, VP!

 

I've read and bookmarked your amazing OP for future reference.

Very glad to give a well-deserved K & R

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:57 PM

80. your hat is quite safe

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 01:02 PM

82. Sounds like Fascism to me.

That, and corporations running the Government.

She turns 1984 on it's head.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #82)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 01:03 PM

83. Well hey, her supporters already use Inner Party math.

Much like 2 + 2 = 5 when the Party needs it, somehow, they're capable of breaking laws of mathematics to claim that 0 - 0 somehow equals 1.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:07 PM

87. Amen X 1000

Good Compilation.

How can ANYBODY who makes less than $250K/year support Hillary?
They are voting AGAINST their own financial interests.
I used to ridicule without mercy Working Class American who voted Republican because they were voting AGAINST their own financial interests.....
and now the Democratic Party Establishment wants me to do the same?
LOL...Never happen.

DURec.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:11 PM

88. The Third Way always brings out the worst in me..

...I get potty mouth as my vocabulary goes to hell. I really hate those people!!

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:36 PM

89. Excellent summation.

You couldn't include everything but I'm sure you know the list is longer.





Feeling the Bern!

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 08:20 PM

90. She lies every single say

 

Her bizarre habit of lying about every single issue is just mind boggling.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:05 PM

91. Perfect candidate

For the GOP.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:28 AM

92. K&R

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