2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Is a De Facto Millionaire
http://time.com/money/4235986/bernie-sanders-millionaire-finances/While the senator is indeed far less wealthy than many of his Senate colleagues as well as his fellow presidential contenders he is not exactly a man of modest means.
True, on the financial disclosure forms Sanders released after announcing his entrance into the presidential race, he lists no assets of his own, other than a $5,000 annual pension payment from his stint as mayor of Burlington, Vt. All of the investments itemized on the disclosure form belong to his wife, Jane, who worked as an educator and college administrator.
But that form does not require Sanders to disclose the amount of savings or the kinds of investments he holds in his government retirement savings account, known as the Thrift Savings Plan the well-regarded retirement plan, similar in many ways, to a private-sector 401(k), that GOP hopeful Marco Rubio actually proposes opening up to other Americans. The form also doesnt include the large pension that Sanders will receive when he retires from Congress.
Sanders campaign did not reply to repeated emails from MONEY about his finances and his retirement account.
$1 Million-Plus Nest Egg
Although Sanders and his wifes joint tax return showed income of only a little more than $200,000 for 2014 including his $174,000 salary, his mayoral pension, and their Social Security payments the senators expected retirement benefits make his situation much more comparable to those in the millionaire class he faults.
If Sanders, now 74, retires from politics at the end of his current Senate term two years from now, without having won the presidential election, he will be able to collect an annual pension of $71,340, MONEY calculated using the current Congressional pension formula.
For another 74-year-old man to buy a guaranteed income stream (or annuity) that would pay out the same inflation-adjusted benefit starting at age 76, it would cost about $1 million, according to a calculation that David Blanchett, head of retirement research at Morningstar Investment Management, ran for MONEY.
Sanders has also probably accumulated a tidy sum in his Thrift Savings Plan. A Washington Post analysis of Sanders 2014 tax form found that he had some deductible contributions to his retirement plan as well as health care costs, although its unclear exactly how much hes been contributing.
A back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that even if Sanders has been contributing just 3% of his salary per year for his entire time in both the House and the Senate and has earned a modest 5% annualized rate of return hed have accumulated almost half a million dollars by the end of 2015, thanks in part to the governments matching contributions. If he has been contributing a steady 5%, hes probably got more than $700,000. Thats in addition to his wifes retirement funds (more on those in a minute) and his pension.
Indeed, when you factor in his mayoral pension, any Thrift Savings Plan assets, and Jane Sanders retirement funds, the households effective retirement nest egg could be closer to a $2 million valuation. Thats well above the American average, of course. About half of households 55 and older have no retirement savings, according to a GAO report released last summer. And of those who do, households age 65-74 had a median $148,000 saved.
Even Sanders annual pension alone would be far above the $36,895 that the median American household with at least one member over 65 earns in a year, according to the Pension Rights Center.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)I hope to have that much saved in my 401k by time I reach his age. According to most retirement calculators that is minimum what you need to retire in a decent level of comfort.
Response to itsrobert (Original post)
Post removed
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)If you take issue with the article, respond.
Don't respond by calling DUers names.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)day, if you'd like.
But personally insulting someone for posting the article? That's a shitty thing to do, and I am pointing it out. It's not an "order"--it's an observation, a recommendation.
Don't do anything else which is similarly disruptive.
Just because it isn't listed here, doesn't mean it's ok. If you post anything which is obviously disruptive, malicious, or repugnant to this community, its members, or its values, you risk being in violation of these Terms of Service.
I'm not going to run off and "hit the button" on you--the Sanders people outnumber the Clinton people, there's just very little point in trying that approach. Instead, I'll tell you straight up what I think of posts that offer an insult to a DUer rather than respond to the issue raised.
Do with it what you will.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)which will keep her and her children living in the top one tenth of one percent in perpetuity. She has also personal raked in tens of millions from corporations and Wall Streeters (for which they expect nothing in return LOL).
Nowadays on the radio, advertising to the peons, the announcer tells us that we can't retire with less than a million. Of course, considering Bernie's age he might make it on that if he and his wife don't have any long term care to pay for.
So while it is a lot of money, it is not the type of money that would put you in the one percent during the Great Depression, which is when being a "multi millionaire" was like being a billionaire these days.
(Great W.C. Fields movie about this subject was "If I Had a Million."
MADem
(135,425 posts)She only has one child, and she married fairly well. Her grandkids will never starve, but I doubt they'll fart through silk for generations on end without putting a shoulder to the wheel.
But more to the point, this article is ONE IN A SERIES. Every candidate's financials are being examined. There's no judgment in the article--none.
It's all here, the outrage, the drama, the push back, the expectation of "negativity" --right here, in this thread. Like a Rorschach test.
The people complaining the loudest didn't even click on the link.
I hope they're as "outraged" at TIME magazine when they do the Clinton finances.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)you alone!
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)gabeana
(3,166 posts)hit job on an honorable man it was posted to demean Sanders by implying that he is not an honest man
he is just another millionaire and you know it was so save the fake outrage
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)DUer for posting an article. Not from some fly-by-night website either--from TIME.
I'll bet you loved TIME when they put Sanders on the front cover last year with an avuncular grin, didn't you?
You're not helping the situation with your "fake outrage" comment either. It's not about me. It's about basic civility to one another, here.
If you posted an article without comment and someone came after you for it, I'd object as well.
Well, maybe not now, since you threw that shade at me. But before you did that, sure, I'd stand up for you without thinking about it. I am a bit less motivated now.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Don't you Hillary supporters ever get dizzy changing directions so often?
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)TIME article a Hillary supporter?
I don't know.
Maybe he's a Trumpista, or a Cruzer.
I can't help but notice that no one is reading the article. They're all either dissing DUers or generic "Hillary supporters" without challenging any of the facts in the piece.
Isn't that interesting....?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)It's 180 out from what was first claimed about Bernie Sanders here in the hallowed halls of DU.
Spin it however you like, but at least call it what it is.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Someone "here in the hallowed halls of DU" said a mean thing, so all of us must be held accountable?
smh. Yeah, let's call that like it is.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)So your lectures and self serving claims are vapid, empty and without any grounding in reality.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511271877#post48
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511242879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251486827
You are in all the threads that do the collective bashing. You are a leading employer of that tactic on DU. One of the posters who most often paints individuals with the actions of others. The Hillary cohort here does it aggressively. At least a dozen of them have tried to blame me for threads I objected to better and louder than any Hillary supporter was able to do. I was standing there speaking the truth and yet your crowd lumps me in with the assholes. No matter what I say or do, because I'm for Bernie. I could easily judge all of you by the handful of assholes among you and they are there, the antisemitic posters, first one outed and banned in November, for example.
Hypocrisy sucks. Double standards suck, and double is the standard in Clinton Culture, from DOMA to DU.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If there were only three threads that discussed the phenomenon, that wouldn't be a cause for your aggravation.
And your links don't prove what you are suggesting in your comment.
Hypocrisy DOES suck--and so do double standards.
I avoid getting personal. I talk about issues, and you?
Looks like you are talking about ME.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)shraby
(21,946 posts)Fact is, he HASN'T retired last I looked.
Autumn
(45,042 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,324 posts)There were threads about him not being smart enough to be rich with his salary and time in Congress.
Plan b, I guess.
Autumn
(45,042 posts)but last week $250,000 is middle class. They blew through plan ᗺ are at the "fuck all over the place plan".
MADem
(135,425 posts)Or maybe you--and everyone else here complaining--do NOT see?
The opening paragraph:
This is part of a series of articles looking at the presidential candidates own finances. Previous articles examined Jeb Bushs portfolio and Ted Cruzs investing strategy.
When the Clinton article comes out, and it will-- I'll wait for you to be just as outraged. I think I might be waiting for awhile.
Autumn
(45,042 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)a million dollars for a frugal couple over the years isn't unusual at all. What is unusual is how few couples actually put the money away and save. Go read a few retirement books!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,661 posts)How disgusting that he has a retirement nest egg and won't have to live under a bridge when he retires! How appalling that someone who's worked all his life actually has put away some money in a retirement savings account! Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons????
Seeinghope
(786 posts)Cabinets with stainless steel sinks. He eats at Deeny's and shops at J.C. Penny! Oh the horror of it all! Pinching your pennies to build a nest egg for retirement! The shame of it! This is what it looks like for a sincere person to be dedicated to being a Public Servant.
I guess when your#1 goal is power and wealth, your standards of living are very different than the life of a real Public Servant and many people choose to ignore what it means when politicians start out middle class and end up extremely wealthy on the same salary that Bernie Sanders lives on, yet they are living opulent lifestyles. What is the difference? Being bought? Looking more for their own benefits than ours? Working to become wealthier on our dime? While we pay them to represent us and be Public Servants they work for their own power and riches. It is plain to see where the Clintons fall on this side of the question just as it is plain to see where Sanders falls on the side of the question.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If not, I have real trouble fathoming the motivation
Armstead
(47,803 posts)And its prnsions from public service -- not speaking fees from Goldman, or cushy board seats on banks or lobbyist consulting fees.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Wow, it's so easy to drag him down.
If only we could get paid for it!
dogman
(6,073 posts)Say it ain't so. He and his wife worked and paid in to their retirement. The last account I read on this criticized him for not having more. He's worth about 8 Hillary speeches. I wonder what young Chelsea Clinton's worth since her family left the White House with a negative net worth?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Docreed2003
(16,858 posts)Could put away that kind of money for retirement! My in laws, a retired cop and social worker, have a similar retirement portfolio...because they saved everything they had for years! They're no more a part of the financial elite that the Sanders but, I guess, some people will look for anything to slam the opposition. Love ya, Scottie!!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The hypocrisy is staggering here.
Backatcha!
Docreed2003
(16,858 posts)lostnfound
(16,170 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I wasn't a fan when I was a kid but I appreciate him more now.
msongs
(67,394 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)retirement that many their age, they're scum of the earth? Whoah!
We've had lots of discussions on this topic in general, saving and retirement, here on DU. Many different opinions, of course, but I admire someone who does a good job of saving. Sometimes it feels as if people take pride in spending every penny and not saving.
Marr
(20,317 posts)you guys would be better off just taking a few weeks off to spend on your hobbies.
You're embarrassing yourselves.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)thank you.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)That means I don't have a sense of humor. You are correct.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,661 posts)Beginning to look like those old "Invisible Man" plastic anatomy models.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)only because it's extremely dated and was barely funny decades ago.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)to see if they are hide-worthy based on current comedy standards.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,661 posts)was presidential material because he didn't have enough money. Why, they asked, doesn't a guy who's been a well-paid member of Congress for all those years have more money or more assets? There must be something wrong with him, maybe even something nefarious! But now there's this bit of sly innuendo about Bernie being a millionaire, kind of, because he's got a decent retirement savings account.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)They aren't fooling anyone.
blueintelligentsia
(507 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,661 posts)in a matter of hours making speeches to Goldman Sachs.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)And Hillary, for her carpetbagging stint in NY as a senator is worth how much?
Is there anything too shameful for Hillary supporters? If there is, I haven't seen it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You do realize that most NYers were not born there?
And most NYers don't mind?
Bernie Sanders isn't a "Vermonter" either. Nor is Howard Dean. What a bunch of CARPETBAGGERS!
What a silly thing to find fault about!
And why are you insulting "Hillary supporters" instead of responding to the article? Does that make you feel like you've vanquished a foe, or something?
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)I stopped myself.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)straight into being Mayor? Because it seems to me someone left Arkansas for Washington and in a matter of a few years were now New Yorkers. They have a ton of class to bad it is all low.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I didn't have a problem with the Clintons putting down roots in NY after serving the nation for eight years, either.
I didn't have a problem with RFK exporting his MA accent to NY.
Not sure why you're trying to flip the script, here. The "beef" started out that Clinton was a "carpetbagger."
Should the Clintons have spent a decade or so farting around, doing odd jobs, bad carpentry, and writing spurious articles for counter-culture publications to gain NY "cred?"
I happen to think people with talent do well not to waste it.
Unless we're going to become a society where being a stick-in-the-mud who never moves and has new experiences is a "good" thing, I see nothing wrong with Clinton doing what she did. She visited parts of NY state that even governors never bothered to visit. She did her homework--as she always does--and was rock-solid on the issues of the day. She knows that state like the back of her hand. Her roots are spread wide, across the entire state. And that's as a consequence of hard work, and of quality constituent services.
matt819
(10,749 posts)The man is 74 and has saved for his retirement. Shocking.
Yes, many of us don't make $174,000 a year and haven't saved for retirement. And that really sucks. Some of us have been forced to eat into savings because of unexpected developments.
But to attack the man because he has saved his money? This is crap! I'll get that he's the only senator to show only a few thousand dollars in income on top of his Senate salary.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Say, when they do Clinton, will it be a "hit piece" too?
matt819
(10,749 posts)The article on Sanders makes observations about his savings habits and pretty decent retirement plan - via the USG's Thrift Savings Plan, not a fund managed by Wall Street - and turns it into a story on how Bernie is not really one of us, as he as maybe up to $2 million in retirement funds. Stating the facts is one thing, putting the judgmental spin on it is another.
If the Clinton piece sticks to the facts - x income, y retirement funds, etc. - that's fine. Turning it around and then condemning her for making so much money and having a comfy life would be inappropriate for this type of story. As a political issue, sure, condemn away. But as a straight up news story on candidate finances, just the facts. If that article focuses on the $225,000 speech and x speeches per year, and cozy relationship with Wall Street, then, yes, that story would be a hit piece.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's a laundry list. It doesn't "trash" him at all. It just says where his dough is and what kind of a retirement plan he has--the usual stuff you'd see in an article that discusses net worth.
But facts are facts. He's NOT "one of us" -- if "us" is the Average American. Most Americans 1) Don't have savings, 2) Don't have a retirement plan outside of social security, 3) Don't have a Cadillac Health Care Plan and swell Dental, and 4) Don't make as much as Sanders does--never mind his wife. That's just fact. They don't say it like "EWWWWW-Stone him!!!" They report the facts. The Clinton one will surely have more "facts" to report as HRC has written many books, has given many speeches, donated a LOT of her income to charity, but also has bought a home in NY and one in DC and built up a nest egg after they paid off all those legal fees.
Any accusations of "tone" have been invented by people who apparently didn't click the link, but thought it would be a better idea to tear down the thread starter in a pre-emptive strike. It all went pear shaped from there.
Doesn't say much for the ability to discuss anything on this board, l must say.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Did you get that? There's not a person in this thread who doesn't understand what you're doing. Read that as: you're not fooling anyone at all.
MADem
(135,425 posts)68. There's no one in this thread, no one, who believes your feigned ignorance. No one.
View profile
Did you get that? There's not a person in this thread who doesn't understand what you're doing. Read that as: you're not fooling anyone at all.
I like discussing politics, and I have a preferred candidate. I make no secret of this. I look forward to the upcoming articles in this series.
But how interesting--and telling--that you would lash out like that, so angrily, and get all personal with me. Well done!
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I hope no one else alerts on you either, especially given your reponse to me, here. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and you're shining a lot of light on yourself right here in this thread, talking to me.
I think it's better to just memorialize your comments--that way, you won't run round deleting them when you think better of the way you're behaving. Transparency, and all that...
72. How did the alert go?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,182 posts).
Gee, he was thrifty and didn't spend all of the money he made in his 30's and 40's, investing some.
Then, that same mentality continues. The same mentality that made several of my co-workers millionaires and able to early retire when they turn 60. They drove around in 15-year-old pieces of shit and didn't spend all their money on crap. And, like the Grasshopper and the Ant, we look at them with envy because they had discipline.
Man, how pathetic are these little gripes going to get?
It's almost like Romper Room sometimes, except with petty and spiteful children in the mix.
.
valerief
(53,235 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)or he cannot be trusted becuase he is a millionaire? Jesus. catapult the propaganda...
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)For the author of this article to say, "Oh, well Bernie isn't broke and in the gutter; therefore he's the equivalent of a member of the millionaire class..." is disingenuous at best. Obviously a hit piece.
But here's the deal: $2 million is about what people need to retire and have their money last until they die. The idea that this bit of luck late in the life of a guy who has struggled financially for decades is something we should all celebrate, wishing him the best, instead of somehow being jealous of him.
He's fought the good fight for decades now, for all of his life, and now some hack from Time is gonna say, "Oh, he's somehow false because he's not BROKE?"
Shit.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Would you have preferred that they treat Sanders differently, and not look at his finances? Ignore him? Leave him out?
Read the first paragraph of the article AT THE LINK.
In fact, read the whole article--no where in it does it say "He's false because he's broke" or anything even close to that.
All the "shade" you are reading is from people who RESPONDED to this thread.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)But, if each of the working class who earns over the course of our careers (so far, my husband's and mine are over 40 years each).... we would have the same next egg.
Unfortunately, we are not up to that amount, but if we followed the rule on savings, we should be there.
So, what's your fucking point?
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)This is where Hillary and her supporters either fail to understand or just completely disregard what Bernie and his supporters are saying. It's not abour having wealth, it's the fact that people are unwilling to share.
I don't begrudge HRC making money giving speeches, I just want to know what she said to people who vehemently oppose letting others in on the good fortune that they came upon with the help of the infrastructure and government systems that they don't want to fund for the good of people who live more ordinary lives and want to see a better future for their kids, etc.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Bernie is fighting for all of us to have a decent retirement. He's worked hard, he deserves a good retirement. We don't want to create equality by bringing Bernie's retirement down, we want to create by bringing everyone else's up.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Anyone not stuck with an insider's perspective can see that. So keep bringing the attacks worthy of a second grade classroom. They're not hurting Sanders.
dchill
(38,465 posts)CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)...protect, and admitting how much money he has would ruin the carefully crafted image he's built up. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they pay someone to rumple his suits for him.
And as always, how much money is "too much money?" Anything more than what Bernie Sanders has, naturally.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)They said it implied irresponsible fiscal behavior.
Now he has too much saved.
LOL.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Lots of "if"s & "probably"s to try to figure out the comparable valuation of a couple's (in their 70s!) contributions, pension & expected retirement benefits.
They have money saved?!? A pension?? Retirement funds??? OMG!!!
On a more serious note - Good for them.
MADem
(135,425 posts)candidates) you will call that one "dumb ass" too.
I have a feeling you didn't even click the link.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Some people are rich, or planned well for their retirement - OMG!
Anyway - only Time will tell!
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I think we all know the answer to that one.
Vinca
(50,255 posts)A whole lot of us are "de facto millionaires" when you start throwing in everything but the kitchen sink.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)1. If he's been a senator, he's too rich to run for office as a champion of the people (unlike hillary, *cough*)
2. If he hasn't been a senator, he doesn't have the experience to run for office.
3. If he's had a senator's salary and hasn't accumulated wealth directly from that salary, it's because he can't manage money and therefore shouldn't be running for office.
4. If he's had a senator's salary and has saved for his retirement - that doesn't mean he's good at managing money - it means he's too rich to run for office *see #1 above.
5. Whether Bernie has been a senator, not been a senator, saved his salary, or spent his salary, any of those options means he is unqualified to run for office.
6. Furthermore, ANYONE who has either been a senator or not been a senator, and has money or doesn't, is unqualified to run for office. Unless they are Hillary.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Not me.