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Armstead

(47,803 posts)
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 08:30 AM Mar 2016

This is a primary. It is NOT a binary choice between Clinton or Trump

This meme that anyone who is critical of Clinton is pulling for a Trump victory is merely an attempt to place the Lock of Groupthink onto the campaign.

It is a conscious marketing ploy to make opposition against Clinton in the primary or support for Bernie SEEM LIKE an endorsement of Trump.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This is a primary. It is NOT a binary choice between Clinton or Trump (Original Post) Armstead Mar 2016 OP
I heard some anecdotal info that some voters thought it was HRC vs Trump. Sad. eom hereforthevoting Mar 2016 #1
The media is playing into it...All the comparisons are Clinton v. GOP... Armstead Mar 2016 #4
It's typical of a population in fear and clutching to identity politics over issues JackInGreen Mar 2016 #2
I hear that there is another Democratic candidate. longship Mar 2016 #3
You bring up a good point Haveadream Mar 2016 #5
Great Post. Armstead Mar 2016 #7
There you go, ruining a perfectly good witch hunt with facts. beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #6
I know...Facts are inconvenient things Armstead Mar 2016 #9
I don't see why you are defending these people. DanTex Mar 2016 #8
Because we're still in a primary. Armstead Mar 2016 #10
So? Advocating for letting Trump win is a hideous thing to do, at any time. Even if there were no DanTex Mar 2016 #11
Carts and horses....The GOP should not be used to shut down the primary process Armstead Mar 2016 #12
Not at all. Nobody's using to shut down the primary. In fact, the only people trying to use it to DanTex Mar 2016 #13
I'm neutral on that approach. I want to see what happens in the duration of the primary Armstead Mar 2016 #14
"You can't be neutral on a moving train." --Howard Zinn. DanTex Mar 2016 #15
I'm not neutral about Trump.....But that's a subject for the General Election Armstead Mar 2016 #17
Pssssst...Here's a present for ya. Armstead Mar 2016 #19
So you're a Naderite too? DanTex Mar 2016 #20
Your the one quoting Howard Zinn Armstead Mar 2016 #21
Yes, and he's right: you can't be neutral on a moving train. DanTex Mar 2016 #24
If you like Howard Zinn enough to quote him ...then you also like a Naderite Armstead Mar 2016 #26
He's right about neutrality, wrong about Naderism: not his finest moment. DanTex Mar 2016 #27
That's it...ignore the context. Ignore anything larger than your particular partisan choice... Armstead Mar 2016 #30
Please do not misunderstand Haveadream Mar 2016 #16
The Third Way is the Inner Party of the Democratic party... Progressives need not apply VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #18
Then why do you guys post articles about Bernie voters going to Trump when he loses the primary? nt LexVegas Mar 2016 #22
I don't advocate that Armstead Mar 2016 #23
I saw that posted here. It seems that many Bernie bros believe it is binary. nt LexVegas Mar 2016 #25
There's a difference between "many Bernie bros" and all of the wide spectrum.... Armstead Mar 2016 #28
Point taken. nt LexVegas Mar 2016 #29

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
2. It's typical of a population in fear and clutching to identity politics over issues
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 08:36 AM
Mar 2016

They're terrified Hillary is the only hope against big bad trump and she'll deliver them to a progressive paradise riding the pile like she's the cherry on a rocket powered milk shake.

If she wins the primary and the GE the buyers remorse is going to be displaced so hard it might shift dimensional planes! If she wins the primary but loses the GE it's Bernies fault or The Bernieboys (I'll go back to the way the phrased it in 2008 over Obama) destroyed their chances, or the violent armed neanderthal males scared all of the strong feminsts away from the polls.

I'm going to run out of popcorn and outrage before the years up.

longship

(40,416 posts)
3. I hear that there is another Democratic candidate.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 08:38 AM
Mar 2016

I mean other than pre-entitled Queen Hillary.

So it is not a matter of the entitled vs the entitled, Hillary vs. Drumpf.

Let that saturate into your soul.

Haveadream

(1,630 posts)
5. You bring up a good point
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:07 AM
Mar 2016

We are in the primary. Despite the odds against Bernie winning the nomination, he is still in the race and has a message that he is uncompromisingly determined to deliver. His message has inspired many people to be engaged in the political process for the first time.

Your post highlights the frustration many feel because they desperately want to be part of that process and to have their views and goals respected. For all of our history, vast swathes of the population have always been just that: without voice, representation or respect. Although it is easy to get swept up in the supercharged and sometimes destructive dynamics of the battle to "win", it is vital that we, as individuals, remain steadfast in our efforts to change that narrative. We cannot expect our leaders to do what we ourselves do not.

The last thing anyone needs is to be shut down or shut out. To be ridiculed or censored. Being excluded and having no voice or representation is soul crushing and destructive. Virtually all of the conflict and demands, in the world at large or here at DU, are fear based. That is what drives supporters of all the candidates, whether Bernie, Hillary or Trump for that matter, to cling to one position, candidate or another and shut out all dissent. For any of us to make progress and create inclusion, it is vital that we, not just our leaders, listen to those voices and fears and find ways to resolve them. It is beholden on each of us, not just the politicians, to truly fight for the rights of everyone to be heard. No candidate can do it without US. That is what democracy looks like.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
8. I don't see why you are defending these people.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:11 AM
Mar 2016

How hard is it to just say that the Bernie or Busters are nuts, that anyone who would sit out the GE and let Trump win has not business calling themselves a progressive? What gives?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
10. Because we're still in a primary.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:12 AM
Mar 2016

What people choose to do after that is irrelevant at this point. Carts and horses.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
11. So? Advocating for letting Trump win is a hideous thing to do, at any time. Even if there were no
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:14 AM
Mar 2016

election going on, anyone who advocates for the GOP is not a progressive.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
13. Not at all. Nobody's using to shut down the primary. In fact, the only people trying to use it to
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:20 AM
Mar 2016

affect the primary are BoBers. They're trying to insist that if Dems don't nominate Bernie, then they will stay out and let Trump win, as a persuasion/blackmail technique.

I'm really surprised that you're siding with them. BoB is a morally grotesque position.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
14. I'm neutral on that approach. I want to see what happens in the duration of the primary
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:21 AM
Mar 2016

People say a lot of things in the heat of the moment.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
15. "You can't be neutral on a moving train." --Howard Zinn.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:22 AM
Mar 2016

Neutrality in the face of Trump is indefensible.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
17. I'm not neutral about Trump.....But that's a subject for the General Election
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:33 AM
Mar 2016

The phony dichotomy that at this point it has to be a choice between Clinton or Trump is what I am opposed to.

You will note that in the interview Sarandon said she will "wait and see what happens" before deciding what she will do after the primary.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
19. Pssssst...Here's a present for ya.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:51 AM
Mar 2016



Ralph Nader at a memorial celebration for......Howard Zinn

http://www.unwelcomeguests.net/032_-_Nader_Rally_(Howard,_Zinn,_Michael_Moore_etc.)

And Lo and behold, a 2000 rally for Ralph nader featuring a rousing speech by.......Howard Zinn. (Advance top bar to about 5 min 40 seconds). If you listen you might learn something.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
24. Yes, and he's right: you can't be neutral on a moving train.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:58 AM
Mar 2016

Which is why your neutrality in the face of Trump is morally indefensible.

But I didn't realize you were a Naderite. Learn something every day.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
26. If you like Howard Zinn enough to quote him ...then you also like a Naderite
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:04 PM
Mar 2016

If not, you're just collecting quotes to bolster your case with no clue of the source. Which is it?

Here's another quote from Zinn in 2000. "We have 2 milliion in prison and that is class war. ........Every month a million people die of starvation while both parties support this obscene military budget...And both parties support this class war of the rich against the poor...And I cannot pull a lever on election day in support of that."

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
30. That's it...ignore the context. Ignore anything larger than your particular partisan choice...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:07 PM
Mar 2016

of the moment.

Haveadream

(1,630 posts)
16. Please do not misunderstand
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:24 AM
Mar 2016

My post is defending everyone, including the members of DU, to have their voices heard. That includes the right to have a vote in the primary, despite the harsh odds either candidate faces. I believe the OP is saying just that, the desire to participate in the primary race without that limited part of the process being characterized as voting for Trump. If the situation were reversed, I would support HRC voters to be able to do the same.

To be clear, none of this applies to the General Election.

The other, much more important message, is that it is critical that each of us hear the fears and concerns of others and to find ways to support each other. In other words, to find common ground. The intent of the post was to work to resolve differences together so there is a path forward for the GE and have a unifying message so that we can prevail against Trump.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
18. The Third Way is the Inner Party of the Democratic party... Progressives need not apply
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:41 AM
Mar 2016

at least not without a moral lobotomy.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
23. I don't advocate that
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:57 AM
Mar 2016

Although I do say there is a danger that Clinton might not be able to attract independents as well as Bernie...And Bernie could draw some voters who might otherwise vote for trump because they are looking for a candidate against the status quo establishment

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
28. There's a difference between "many Bernie bros" and all of the wide spectrum....
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016

of people who support Bernie.

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