If HRC was the most progressive candidate, almost all who back Bernie would back her.

[Ken Burch]

If she was for getting the hell out of the Middle East, almost all would back her.

If she admitted we need to stop doing trade deals on corporate terms, almost all would back her.

If she was for standing up to corporate arrogance, almost all would back her.

If she was serious about fighting poverty, almost all would back her.

If she renounced her war criminal friend Henry Kissinger and publicly condemned his deeds(none of which are still supported by the majority of the American people-other than the China thing which would have inevitably happened anyway), almost all would back her.

If she had been a committed antiracist WITHOUT INTERRUPTION, rather than only between 1968 and 1980 and then supposedly starting again in 2015, almost all would back her.

If she accepted that activism and protest were valid and necessary parts of the political process, almost all would back her.

And she would lose no votes from anyone who supports her now.

It's the issues. It really is the issues.

And nothing else.

[onecaliberal]

1. EXACTLY!!!

[dana_b]

2. I wish that she were that progressive

I would LOVE to support a woman!

[CorporatistNation]

59. If ONLY You Could Trust Her In The Same Way As WE TRUST BERNIE SANDERS...

It just ain't gonna happen. You cannot somehow get a leopard to change her spots!

[upaloopa]

3. If Bernie was the most progressive candidate I still would not support him

He isn't Presidential material.

No foreign policy experience

Can't build a diverse base

He is a divider not a uniter

Refuses to work with those he disagrees with,

Too fringe

[BirdieSanders]

5. What do the ümpa-loompas know about presidential material? Candy, perhaps... but nt

[Ken Burch]

7. Bernie is the most progressive.

You can't be progressive and take corporate donations.

And it's not possible to do anything progressive without challenging corporate control of politics.

(BTW, HRC, if nominated, can only claim to be progressive in the fall if she doesn't move right on anything...it's not anything just to be pro-choice-ther Nineties proved that that was worthless in isolation).

[bettyellen]

13. "just be pro-choice"? Are you really that ignorant about the record? Wow. Stop faking concern for

our reproductive health, and go back to slamming us as "identity politics". At least then you'd have integrity.

[Ken Burch]

18. I'm passionately pro-choice, and so is Bernie.

The Nineties proved it is meaningless to be pro-choice if you aren't progressive on at least the clear majority of the other issues.

We never had to go that far to the right...we have an obligation to never go that far to the right again.

We need to make a complete and permanent break with every aspect of Nineties politics.

[bettyellen]

19. Again, you seem to have no idea of Hillary's record if you are saying "just be pro-choice"

I am incredulous that a person who worked harder for women's reproductive rights than ANY candidate we have ever had in this nations history is denigrated this way here. Ignorant.
Hillary worked on it, Bernie "voted correctly". Why can't a single one of you give her credit? It's fucked up.

[Ken Burch]

20. OK, she worked on it. Bernie did, too.

I give her her due for what she did.

But why would anyone think she is the only person who would defend choice as president?

Bernie is just as committed on that issue.

And choice isn't the only feminist issue.

Wage parity and the defeat of poverty and easy access affordable higher education matter just as much.

[bettyellen]

22. She has also worked on "wage parity" harder than Bernie ever did. Why is anyone pretending he

is actually better than her on these issues? In her few years in the senate, she did tons more than Bernie did in what- 25 years?

Honestly, it is so ignorant and galling to read these claims. (Not just you- but many here) None of you seem to know her record at all. She has worked on bringing women and young children out of poverty and expanding opportunity for them. (And not just in the USA) You should study up instead of spreading untruths. Integrity is supposed to matter, but you are all repeating garbage. Disappointing.

[Ken Burch]

23. She lost any right to claim to care about the poor

When she defended the racist, sexist, classist "welfare reform" thing Bill cheerfully agreed to.

Yes, welfare policy needed to be changed...THE POOR had been saying that since at least 1965. But we didn't need to have a supposedly Democratic president accepting punitive changes, vindictive changes, changes that made life worse for people who were already in misery. The Clintons should have presented progressive, positive changes(such as switching people from welfare to federal jobs programs and preserving family structure by allowing two-parent families to get assistance, as LBJ should have done in the first place)in the spring of 1993.

[bettyellen]

24. One program of Bills does not wipe out all her hard work on these issues. That is ridiculous.

She is way more accomplished than Bernie and you need to stretch hard to try and erase it. You cannot erase it.
That you would like to try- says a lot to me. You had no idea- never cared enough to find out.

Bernie was comparatively weak on women's issues, sorry to say. It is embarrassing when you all try to claim he was better by carting out something Bill did 20 years ago. Not the way it works. The people who actually care remember. We know better.
Take another tack.

[azurnoir]

36. people who actually care do not attempt to white wash the immeasurable damage done to poor women and

children by Clinton's welfare reform

[bettyellen]

38. this is where you need to go to erase her work for reproductive rights? Please stop.

Not everything is about your pocketbook. Although you do have to pretend it is to glorify Sanders. Enough already.

[azurnoir]

39. I haven't said a word about Sanders

[bettyellen]

47. you jumped into the tail end of a conversation about his record on reproductive rights.

it was never about welfare programs.

[azurnoir]

71. welfare reform was mentioned obviously it made you uncomfortable or something

[bettyellen]

72. it was tangential- you were not aware of the focus of the conversation- women's reproductive rights.

[azurnoir]

74. I was aware but my comment was on the welfare reform part

oh and didn't Hillary say she'd compromise on abortion?

[bettyellen]

75. read up on Hillary's record on reproductive rights, no presidential candidate has come even close to

fighting for them as she has over the years. You may need to do a lot of reading to catch up- but those of us who have stayed informed over the years do not share your concerns about "compromise" Not in the least.

[azurnoir]

76. most recently she said she'd compromise on abortion end of story

[bettyellen]

77. So you don't know a thing about her record, but want to school others. Nope.

That was my point. Clueless people lecturing those who have been in the trenches and know better. All day long here, so foolish. Later!

[azurnoir]

78. I don't care about her past statements only her recent pivot or is it evolution ?

see it's easy to ignore past history when present statements contradict it

[bettyellen]

79. HA HA HA. Accomplishments. Stay ignorant.

Easy to ignore what you never knew. Yup. Done here.

[azurnoir]

81. you see those are your claims I know in the past when in need of endorsements

depending on her audience Hillary has claimed to be for women's reproductive rights, however as of right now she is saying she'll compromise

[bettyellen]

82. Accomplishments are not statements- look them up.

[azurnoir]

84. post them it's your statement prove it how has she protected womens reproductive rights?

might be inspiring for women in red states where they are being eaten away at the local level

[bettyellen]

86. that is not how this works. I said I heard bullshit from uninformed people- not my job to

educate them. if they really cared, they would already know all about it- not worth my time.

[azurnoir]

88. so it's not your job to back up your claims -well okay then

[bettyellen]

89. I leave people to wallow in their ignorance, yup. because they fake their concerns.

and I am on to their shit. it amuses me. "statements" HA HA HA HA.
You know nothing, Jon Snow.

[azurnoir]

90. what fake concerns I started out on welfare reform you were uncomfortable with that so I entertained

what you wish to discuss, I asked for facts you seem you seem unable or unwilling to provide them

[RampageSnipa586]

102. Agreeing with azurnoir

You can lecture the world on everything she has done in the past, but as soon as she changes her mind, and contradicts herself, she becomes useless. We now know that her opinions and her looks on the issues will change and we will never get a concrete answer from her. Once pro NAFTA, once against NAFTA. same goes for gay marriage. You can bark orders about the past Hillary, but past Hillary isn't running for president, its the present liar who is running so all your arguments on the past are invalid. I used to be a terrible person, now I changed and I'm good now. Are you going to judge my actions on what I've done or what I am actively doing?

[heaven05]

107. thank you

[Armstead]

42. She has said almost nothing about the structural corruption until she had to contend with Bernie

Yes Clinson is great on many social issues that do not affect the basic matrix of Power and Money, and who government has become accountable to.

It is those larger core issues -- plus her past willingness to pander to the GOP and family values crowd -- that she falls way short.

She does not want to make any systemic changes becaise the elites are her friends.

[bettyellen]

49. Thanks, really just wanted to explain you do Sanders no favors trying to inflate his record here.

People who really give a shit are being fed a revisionist history- and they are kind of disgusted by it. We know more about the family values crowd than you do, and how she had to work WITH some pretty screwed up people to get funding and support. We know this better than you do.

Better to stick to the power and money meme.

[Armstead]

67. Okay but let me make this clear (IMO)

There are a handful of issues where I feel comfortable with Democrats like Clinton in power. Reproductive rights, LGBT equality (recently anyway), voting rights..... things like that.

But I do not make a distinction between "social issues" and "economic issues" (the power and money meme as you dismissively call it). It's a false dichotomy. They are directly interrelated as social and economic justice. So it is disingenuous to claim to be progressive on social issues, but not on economic ones, because it is a matter of the quality of life for everyone.

For example, pay equity for women is great and I am all for it. But it is meaningless if that means that working class (non elite) women merely have the opportunity to earn the same shitty wages as men in the New Economy.

It is a social issue when people work for a company like Wal Mart full time, but can't afford a decent living standard (or even have to go on food stamps), while the 6 members of the Walton family they work for are worth $149 billion -- with a B. And it is a social issue when Wal Mart forces manufactures to shift production to China (they do that) or muscle small local business out.

You can't support or excuse the mentality of companies like Wal Mart and claim to be for social justice.

If a working mother can't afford healthcare for her and her kids, that's the ultimate women's health issue as well as an issue of power and money because the Democrats are fed by, in bed with, and/or afraid of the Insurance Lobby and Big Pharma.

Wall SDt. is not an empty remote buzzword. The mentality and lack of regulation of them drives the Darwinian behavior of big abusive corporations -- which squeezes average Americans directly.

So this is not about neat little boxes. And Money and Power is NOT a meme. No one can call themselves progressive on social issues or claim to care about women, children or racial issues if they ignore or collaborate with the systemic structural Ripoff of the American People -- or tacitly endorse the values of Pirate Free Market Corporate Capitalism that we have allow to evolve since the 1970's.

Just my opinion, of course.

[bettyellen]

68. Oh I get it. My point was we get lectures on W's reproductive health from SBS supporters who have

no fucking clue at all. It is not worth it to try and pretend she will add restrictions to abortion, or that Bernie is better on W's rights.
Anyone who cared enough to pay attention, knows that is bullshit. I am embarrassed for some of the folks here.

I get that you do not make a distinction, but lots of people do. You should respect that- and know that denigrating Clinton on this is a mistake. Big mistake.

[Armstead]

69. She's great on reproductive rights. Happy?

I stand by my posts above though.

[bettyellen]

73. Happy and gobsmacked. Thank you.

I get it, and respect your opinions. Just trying to explain mine!

[Buddyblazon]

109. She's awesome on reproductive rights...

Too bad that she can't run the entire country on just her reproductive record.

[heaven05]

108. prisons for profit

helped "wipe out" her progressive claims in my book. So that's two. Voted for Iraq war, don't care how many apologies she offers. Dog whistle campaign in her first run for POTUS. To me Bill's welfare reform and prisons for profit progams tells me EVERYTHING about how she thinks of the miserably poor and minorities.

[eridani]

92. Clinton is willing to tolerate and anti-abortion constitutional amendment

Hillary Clinton: I Could Compromise on Abortion If It Included Exceptions For Mother's Health

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html

Again, I am where I have been, which is that if there's a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health, then I'm open to that. But I have yet to see the Republicans willing to actually do that, and that would be an area, where if they included health, you could see constitutional action.

[think]

14. Robert Kagan, was a GOP Neocon adviser for Hillary at the State Dept. Is that the kind of foreign

policy credentials your looking for?

Obama has done so much better with John Kerry as SoS it's unreal.

It's a breath of fresh air compared to Hillary's non stop push for military intervention in the Middle East.

I'll take the guy who KNEW better than to sign onto Bush's corrupt, illegal, and immoral war. Hillary on the other hand gave a major speech supporting the war and claiming Saddam has WMDs.

The Iraq war will go down as one of the biggest foreign policy failures in American History. A war that cost $1.7 trillion dollars, thousands of live of American service men and women, tens of thousand more injured, and untold deaths in the hundreds of thousands for the Iraqi people.

$1.7 trillion dollars wasted on an illegal and unnecessary war which has now destabilized the middle east which is costing America hundreds of billions more.

I'll pass on Hillary's Neocon foreign policy judgement. America can't afford the price in either dollars or lives of the American people and the people of the middle east.

[Broward]

15. Too fringe for right-wingers, yes. Is he too fringe for you?

[JPnoodleman]

26. The only divider is Clinton and her putrid followers,

Their behavior has done more to split anything then Bernie.

Your lots only issue with Bernie is he had the insolence to run against the "anointed one."

[athena]

45. I agree completely.

We need someone to lead the country, not someone to lead a movement. Just the fact that he walks out of interviews is disturbing to me. Any president who will have to deal with the Republicans in Congress will have to be able to control her nerves. Hillary Clinton demonstrated beautifully in the Benghazi hearings that she has an almost super-human level of self-control.

[PyaarRevolution]

50. No foreign policy experience?

As opposed to someone who's playbook resembles that of John Perkins "Confession Of An Economic Hitman"? If Hillary was in past administrations she would've supported the coup to oust Salvador Allende in Chile, replaced with Pinoche. Same with Chavez and Mossadegh.
Look at her revealed actions in Lybia and Syria then earlier voting to go into Iraq.

[Marr]

51. You wouldn't support him *because* he was liberal-- let's be honest.

You're to the right of most people on DU. Just own it.

[KPN]

55. THIS

is the way Hillary folks see things. Geez, they are pretty similar to Republicans in a lot of ways.

[RampageSnipa586]

100. Foreign Policy Experience

I know that Hillary has a lot of foreign experience being under sniper fire in Bosnia. We all should have seen the video of how that really went down.

[Renew Deal]

4. So it's a purity test

Nothing else matters

[senz]

6. Issues are extremely important but I think character matters, too.

That's why I support Bernie.

[Ken Burch]

9. Of course not...but principles matter.

And there aren't any votes a Dem can only get in the fall by being "impure" on any of the the things I listed.

Nobody out there in the wider electorate that would even consider voting Democratic actually agrees with Henry Kissinger, OR thinks we should ever try regime change again in the Middle East(after Iraq and Libya proved that nothing positive can ever come from U.S.-backed regime change), or thinks we should still do more trade deals, or thinks that we should equate crime with blackness. Nor do any possible Democratic voters still think we should give special deference to corporations.


Why not try to get votes where we CAN get them...by firing up and mobilizing the base and reaching out to the dispossessed and the alienated?

[Wilms]

11. Pardon, but I think you left a projection here.

It would be nice of you to take it back.

[RobertEarl]

8. Yep. She could have easily been president

Why she has gone on this right-wing track is incomprehensible.

Is it the big money that drives her?

Is it the lust for power?

At this point I don't care why or what for about Hillary.

Bernie is where we need to be and he deserves the votes from anyone who is against world wars and big money campaigns.

He is Fighting For Us.

[thereismore]

10. Of course! nt

[bettyellen]

12. you think she spent 35 years being okay with racism? Wow.

This is the kind of stupid shit that people remember. Issues, my ass.

[Ken Burch]

17. That's what never once denouncing racism in Arkansas meant.

That's what going "law and order" means(I don't need to remind you what those three words are always code for).

That's what becoming a cheerleader for the death penalty means.

That's what helping found the Democratic Leadership Council means(the main point of the DLC was to get the Democratic Parry to publicly tell black people to f__k off).

That's what using words like "superpredator" means.

That's what accepting mass incarceration and more executions as the supposed price of getting VAWA renewed means.

That's what saying nothing when Republicans equated crime, welfare fraud(welfare use in general, for that matter) and out-of-wedlock births(all things mostly done by white people in real life) with blackness means.

The only anti-racist thing she did or said in that whole time was when in 1998(mainly because she was planning to run for the Senate in NY and had to at least start sounding like a Democrat again), she called out the NYPD for killing one black man(and diong so using the "tough on crime" policing methods she and Bill had unquestioningly defended since the late Sevrenties.

[bettyellen]

21. so not doing things is bad, super- predators = black people (no they do not), and

supporting terribly popular crime bills (at the apex of crime in the USA) is racist too? Yeah, I don't know many city people buying that shit. Sorry.

I think you'd be shocked how many POC wanted the NYPD to start enforcing laws in their areas instead of abandoning them completely to drug dealers. (Which had been policy) These are sound bites from people who are desperate to pander to a voting block they long ago alienated. Claiming super predators = black- it isn't helping. Young and violent drug dealers came in all races.

[Hydra]

34. *lmao*

We all know what she meant when she said "Super Predator" kids. Let me emphasize again: KIDS.

We've heard enough dogwhistles from the GOP when they think they are being subtle. That would have fit right in there.

[bettyellen]

37. Yes, there were kids working for drug cartels back then. It was a new phenomenon-

and got a fair bit of press. Lots of innocent people getting shot in the streets of NYC when the crack cartels came in.
Crime was everyone here's #1 issue. Don't know how it was outside NY and LA.

[Hydra]

43. Ok, so can I put you down as supporting police actions against Black Children

As an acceptable policy to push in the Democratic Party?

[bettyellen]

46. the biggest cartel here was not black- why would you assume it was? WOW.

Police action against children with guns working for crack cartels, unfortunate but necessary. I remember they arrested an 8-9 year old once, my brother was totally shocked they would do that to kids.

[randome]

16. You're wrong. The level of absolute hatred of Clinton takes this into a different realm.

There is nothing so casual about that hatred. It's something else, I'm not sure what it is, but it is not admirable.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[synergie]

25. And if Bernie was actually progressive, he'd not be losing in the popular vote

or pledged delegates, but he's not, no matter how you wish he was.

[w4rma]

27. George Orwell did not write 1984 to be a manual of how to lie to people, synergie.

To claim that Bernie isn't a progressive, plus claiming that a neoliberal is progressive, is Orwellian.

[Hydra]

29. +1000

That's like what one of Team Hill tried to tell me- that their personal definition of Left and Right was correct, there was no objective measure.

Therefore, Hillary is Left. They said so. Bernie is a RW Lefty firebagger. They said so.

[synergie]

33. Isn't this exctly what you're doing? Like literally?

[Hydra]

41. Progressive has a meaning

Words are like that. Kinda weird, huh?

Hillary supports the status quo with a few tweaks(as few as she can get away with). There's a silly word for something like that: Conservative.

Conservatives run the country currently

Progressive means you want to do something that changes things in a way that makes them work better. Derived from the word Progress.

Progressives are a bad word in this country currently, unless you use it as a marketing term.

Sanders is a Progressive. If you disagree with the current words and usage, please state your disagreement with supporting facts. Otherwise the previous poster was correct in pointing out your posts as something we would expect from the Ministry of Truth.

[synergie]

31. Then why are you using it to do so?

[w4rma]

57. The term "progressive" isn't just a buzz word. Neoliberals don't get to be progressives, also. nt

[Hydra]

28. I would love to be able to vote for Clinton

If she was a progressive, I would have happily supported her run in 2008 and she would have been finishing up her 2nd successful term right now.

The fact that She and Bill aren't was one of the most bitter pills I had to swallow during my education into real politics. Maybe it's impossible for a real progressive to get into office without getting shot on the way in...but dammit, we need to try.

[Red Oak]

30. She wouldn't have to be the most progressive. Being a progressive at all would do.

Maybe a Hillary supporter could chime in and tell me where she has had positions (remember she usually has two positions on any major subject, time depending, and that these positions were recorded and are available, easily, on Youtube) that has always differed from the Republican position on the same topic.

The only areas that I know of where she has not, at one time or another, held a Republican viewpoint on a major issue are in the areas of health care and woman's equality. With health care she has always worked for something similar to the ACA though never single payer, a true progressive position.

Her other positions are (or have been, recorded on video) all like the Republican positions

War (Iraq, Syria, Libya) - like the Republicans
Israel/Palestinian conflict - like the Republicans
Foreign Policy in general - like the Republicans
Military budget - like the Republicans
Finance (like Wall Street accountability) - like the Republicans
Equal rights - (one man/one woman position) - like the Republicans, progressive on equal rights for women
Budget - like the Republicans
Social Safety Net - like the Republicans
Campaign Finance - like the Republicans
Environment (like fracking and the Keystone pipeline) - like the Republicans
Trade - like TPP leadership ("the Gold Standard&quot or CAFTA - like the Republicans
Health care - no single payer, but generally progressive with respect to ACA. Have heard no leadership on negotiating drug prices (while in Senate).

Sec Clinton is basically a DINO. With all her "third way" positions, one could say that Bernie Sanders is the only progressive running for President in this election cycle.

[840high]

91. Thank you.

[Red Oak]

98. I find it telling that no Hillary supporter has corrected me on this post

Hillary is not a progressive.

[CharlotteVale]

32. So true. That is why I support Bernie, not her.

[corbettkroehler]

35. Sign Sanders' Debate Petition

>> http://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/new-york-debate <<

>> http://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/new-york-debate <<

>> http://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/new-york-debate <<

[hr]

[vkkv]

40. Hit the nail on the head! -eom

[Loudestlib]

44. It's not just that she isn't progressive, I don't trust her.

[H2O Man]

48. Correct.

You stated this extremely well. Thank you.

Recommended.

[revbones]

52. I'll do you one better...

If HRC was a progressive candidate, almost all who back Bernie would back her if she won the nomination

[mooseprime]

53. refusing to debate because of someone's "tone"

is emblematic of what's wrong here. Clinton clearly does not recognize that this is a job interview, and she has to show up for it. "Bernie's being mean to me!" is about as probative as 'the dog ate my homework.' if this is what the courtship is like, can you imagine the marriage? she already doesn't have to answer to us and she doesn't even have the job yet!

[athena]

54. Hillary is very progressive.

If you have an open mind (i.e., you're not operating from a place of hatred), read the following in its entirety to see why:

http://www.thenation.com/article/can-hillary-clinton-win-over-the-left/

It's easy to pick specific things and then claim you would support her if she had not done those things. If she had done them, you would have looked for other things.

Lots of people out there support Bernie because they simply cannot stand a woman being smarter or more powerful than they. And lots of other people support Bernie because it's the socially acceptable thing to do in the crowd they hang with. Let's face it: very few people out there are truly independent thinkers.

[Ken Burch]

58. It isn't anyone on the Left who hates the idea of a woman as president.

We don't have to support the more conservative candidate to prove we don't hate women.

As I've said many times before, I'd hold the same views on the race(and this goes for at least 99% of Sanders' ACTUAL supporters-the 'bros are wreckers hired by Ron Paul and people like him-, and probably 100% but I haven't met all of them) if the candidates were named Henry Clinton and Berniece Sanders.

It has never been about gender except for right-wingers. That isn't us.

[athena]

61. She is not more conservative.

Did you read the article?

If you clutch at tiny differences between Hillary and Bernie to claim that Bernie is more progressive and therefore the better candidate for a progressive to support, you're still left with the question of which one is more likely to get her platform through Congress. I don't see how someone who has accomplished very little in all his years in politics, can't cooperate with politicians he considers impure because of slight differences of opinion, can't vote for a bill that is not 100% perfect, and gets angry at the drop of a hat, is more likely to get a progressive agenda enacted than Hillary Clinton, who managed to work gracefully under Barack Obama so soon after a painfully competitive campaign.

What I see is that for many (admittedly not all) Bernie supporters out there, hatred of women is a major reason to be against Hillary. They will never admit it, but the kinds of attacks they use against her speak volumes. I can't imagine Bernice Sanders getting the kinds of support Bernie Sanders is getting. I can, however, imagine the sexist attacks against Bernice Sanders.

Finally, claiming, for example, that one would be all for President Warren does not prove that one is not against Hillary Clinton because of her gender. In my career as a woman in a male-dominated field, I've met many men who were absolutely wonderful as long as I wasn't working with them, and turned incredibly nasty the moment we started working together -- the moment, indeed, I voiced an opinion that went against theirs or did not show deference to them. I'm sure that the Bernie supporters I'm referring to would attack Warren the same way they are attacking Hillary if Warren actually started running for President. She would inevitably say something or do something that they found unacceptable in a woman. And I include both men and women in this.

[Ken Burch]

63. The men who treated you that way are assholes. People who support Bernie

have no use for guys like that.

Why should anyone have to vote for HRC just to prove they don't have a problem with a woman being president?

If she doesn't in, women will run for the job again in 2020 or 2024.

By contrast, If Obama had been stopped by HRC, we probably never would have seen another black presidential candidate. The political establishment would have made sure of it.

[athena]

70. Thank you for the supportive remark.

I don't mean that people have to vote for Hillary just to prove they're not sexist. I am also not saying that anyone who is for Bernie is sexist. I know counter-examples of people who support Bernie for legitimate reasons having nothing to do with gender. I think they're wrong, but I don't think they're being sexist.

In 2008 and 2012, I was for Obama. I agree that it was important to support the black man in that case. In fact, I was one of his earliest supporters, before he even decided to run, because I had read an article that argued that this was a once-in-a lifetime opportunity to elect a black man to the presidency, and that waiting four or eight years was not an option. HRC was also a very different candidate in 2008 than she is now.

What I mean is that I see a lot of sexism out there directed at Hillary Clinton, often expressed by Bernie supporters. I believe at least some of those self-professed Bernie supporters are in fact Republicans in disguise, who think Bernie would be easier to beat than Hillary. I knew that the sexism would be demoralizing, which is part of the reason why I was less than enthusiastic about her candidacy in the beginning. She is a very strong candidate, and if she can't make it, I doubt we will see a viable female candidate in the next 20 years, if not the next 40.

[Juicy_Bellows]

56. If she was all that, I doubt Sanders would have bothered running.

KICK.

If she was interested in getting money out of politics that would help her case too.

[Blue_In_AK]

60. You must have struck a nerve.

I only see half the replies.

[VulgarPoet]

94. I logged out to look at 'em.

You're not missing much. The typical bumper sticker-esque mindset of "vote blue no matter who", the typical defense of the "super-predators" remark, and the typical "misogynist" smears that always come out of that camp.

[Avalon Sparks]

62. If she guaranteed that she would not sign the TPP or any other Free Trade agreement I would

i would vote for her if she just said that.

I doubt she'll push for campaign finance reform - no chance- and this is my #1 issue
I completely disagree with this fake endless war...
She's center right on fiscal policy (supply-side lite)

But I would vote for her anyway if she just took a hard stance against signing more free trade deals, and moved the US toward Fair trade.

These agreements are devastating to our middle and working class. They are complicated and there are 100's of spin articles on the web that present them in a good light. I'd challenge anyone here to go to Public Citizens.org and READ about them.

And then come back here and tell me why the data there is not concerning to you.

[felix_numinous]

64. Absolutely agree /nt

[brooklynite]

65. I'm supporting the most progressive candidate who can actually win...

...but I can't see that being Bernie Sanders. And other than pointing to irrelevant long-term head to head polls and talking vaguely about how Independents will support him, I haven't been presented with a solid case.

So I'll stick with a strong mainstream Democrat who knows how to fight.

[snowy owl]

66. A vote for the status quo

So be it.

[Kalidurga]

80. I would have preferred another woman run against Hillary...

But, as I don't solely vote based on identity politics I am supporting Bernie anyway.

[VulgarPoet]

93. If it was about identity politics, well fuck. I'd be supporting Dr. Stein fullbore.

Alas, I'm in the tank for Bernie.

[Kalidurga]

117. Exactly I voted for her once I wouldn't mind doing it again.

[grasswire]

83. I fear you omitted the strongest reason not to support her.

Corruption and deceit.

Even if she had all the attributes that you list, I could not support her because of the corruption.

[Chan790]

85. Well, sure...

and if my neighbor Debbie's bull had utters, it'd be a dairy cow.

Making these kinds of comparisons is of limited utility...I doubt anybody thinks If Hillary was actually the antithesis of Hillary, her opponents would still oppose her.

[Vote2016]

87. true

[Scuba]

95. Hillary is about as far from "progressive" as one can be without an "R" behind her name ...

[JEB]

104. There it is. Plain as fucking day. Excellent post.

[seabeyond]

96. Sanders isn't getting out of middle east either. Not a military vote he has not liked, but one.

[Nanjeanne]

97. I'd think about supporting her if she even spoke out about the mess

In Arizona. If she had congratulated Sanders on his big three wins last week. And most importantly if she did resort to the most divisive smears to portray Sanders as racially insensitive and not an activist for the black community. Her campaign tactics is what pushed me far away from her.

[RampageSnipa586]

99. Not the issues at all

In my opinion, it's mostly the fact that she has lied about almost everything she has said over the course of her time as SoS and Senator.

You didn't say anything at all about her changing her mind about gay marriage, lying about NAFTA, or anything else for that matter.

Do you really want a dishonest president who changes her mind by who puts money in her pocket, the same ones that she bagged on even though they were paying her. She burns bridges, and is dishonest, and it's nothing else.

[Trust Buster]

101. She's not a Socialist. Get over it already.

[Ken Burch]

111. Nothing I listed in the OP required socialism.

BTW, why are you even a Democrat if you're this viciously anti-left?

Every good thing any Democratic president ever did was originally proposed by radicals.

[Trust Buster]

114. I'm not viciously anti-Left. I merely understand that we live in a representative Democracy.

I watched the far Right try to rule with an iron fist and refuse compromise. I also noticed what is happening to their Party as well. There are certain issues on your list that cannot be realistically achieved by the next President. Bush and Cheney destabilized Iraq, we cannot simply walk away is one example. The political power in this country resides on the Right. The Democrats have not funded and organized a comparable political machine. Therefore, in the current political environment, compromise is our only option.

[MadBadger]

103. He is the most progressive, but I don't automatically support the most progressive candidate

I would've backed DK in 2008 like many here if that was the case. I didnt then either. There is more to choosing a candidate than whether or not you agree on every issue.

[MaeScott]

105. amen. kick

[heaven05]

106. excellent truth

[BreakfastClub]

110. I don't believe that for a second. Obama was not as progressive as Hillary, even though

Obama supporters insisted he was "revolutionary" and that it had nothing to do with Hillary being a woman. Yeah, right. Some revolutionary. What would be revolutionary is having a progressive democratic woman in the WH, and that woman should be Hillary Clinton.

[Prism]

112. Yep. If I thought she was liberal, I'd back her

The same calculation I made in 2008. I looked at Obama and Clinton. Obama was the more liberal of the two. I chose him.

So it is now.

If anything, I'd say her campaign and supporters are veering even more Republican now than they were in '08.

So that's weird.

[yourout]

113. She would do more damage to SS than a republican

If a republican tries to cut SS there would be a huge backlash from the dems but a "grand deal" pushed by Hillary would find a way to pass.

Mark my words the biggest threat to SS would be Hillary.

[JudyM]

115. Well, yes, except for the corruption and the poor judgment.

[Orsino]

116. Yep. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

118. If the Democratic party wants the votes of the Left it should run Leftist candidates.