would Hillary challenge President Sanders in 2020?

[reddread]

seems like a real possibility if she were still in good form for it.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

1. Have you seen her at her speeches with her coughing fits?

I think this is her last shot, she is getting old. That coughing fit has me very concerned who she will pick for VP if she somehow gets the nomination

[emulatorloo]

32. I'm having coughing fits. There's a bug going round. I hope you don't get it

because it is a PITA. Hope Bernie doesn't get it either as he needs his voice.

[Jitter65]

45. If she loses, I think she will spend the rest of her life enjoying her beautiful grandchildren and

being satisfied that she gave it all she had and be satisfied with her public career of service to her country.

[Trust Buster]

2. Talk about desperation. A Socialist will not be president in the first place. Nice try.....LOL

[Gwhittey]

8. No wonder you support Clinton

You are so low information about this you think Sanders is a Socialist.

If you are not referring to Sanders then I sorry I took to mean you did since that is what we are talking about.

[Trust Buster]

10. Sanders labels himself a Socialist. Any information, low or high, know that much.

[reddread]

12. Those HRC surrogates mislabel him thusly

wrong marketplace for that horse hockey.

[Trust Buster]

13. He calls himself a Socialist in his own words. Are you kidding me ?

[reddread]

14. No.

carry on.

[Trust Buster]

16. Yes he has. You can't alter fact.

[reddread]

18. and you cant post the link

[Trust Buster]

19. It's pretty common knowledge.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/

[reddread]

23. latest hail mary talking point

just about 50 years past its expiration.
or maybe you would like to survey Kansas Democrats?

[Trust Buster]

24. You asked for a source proving Sanders calls himself a Socialist. I gave you one.

Now you wish to move the goal post.

[reddread]

25. not moving anything

Just questioning the rank stink of such expired concerns being pushed NOW
rather than last week.

its almost sad.
please, tell it to Kansas.

[Trust Buster]

28. Kansas has a Republican Governor and a Republican-dominated legislature.

Kansas speaks for itself.

[w4rma]

63. Kansas has voted for the eventual Democratic nominee 100% of the time, over the past 50 years. (nt)

[redstateblues]

33. Bernie only added "Democratic" to Socialist when he was thinking about running for POTUS

[angrychair]

34. No

He says he is a Democratic Socialist, very different animal.
Second, you say it like a cuss word. Your intent is derogatory.

Plus he lays out a set of programs that are not very different than what many nations on Earth have been using successfully for a decade or more.

Your taxes will go up? Yes. For all the bitching and whining people do about him bumping middle class taxes (FYI, HRC will do it too, paid family leave isn't free) a little but nothing when we have billions going to corporate subsidies and the bottomless bucket of "defense" spending (I say that because we sell more weapons to the world that all weapons dealers combined)

[Trust Buster]

35. Socialism is socialism. And yes, I've never supported it. That's my choice.

[angrychair]

39. So

Public roads (all roads are toll roads)? Public schools (want to send you kid to school, pay for it)? The common good (i.e. All public welfare and aid programs) should be abolished?

Just wondering how far your "I've never supported it" goes. Your answer would seem in opposition to every Democratic Party plank so that is why ask.

[Trust Buster]

40. Basic public needs are one thing. It's a matter of degree.

[angrychair]

42. So you are

A little "socialist"?
What qualifies as a "basic public need"?
Some education but not to much?
Some medical care but not to much?
Some food but not to much?
Some roads but not all?
Some bridges but not all?

Still trying to figure out the angle here. A lot of the statements coming from HRC supporters at this point are socially liberal "ish" and otherwise very fiscally conservative. I say that because a lot of resorted to the "free stuff" meme which is not a liberal or progressive phrase. It is very libertarian. Are you sure you are not a libertarian?

[Trust Buster]

43. What the country deems necessary. You don't have the votes in Congress.

Ignoring the wishes of half the country and their political representatives is not a successful route to take.

[angrychair]

48. We don't know what we have the votes for

Till we actually try.

More importantly, you deflected. We were talking about you and HRC supporters in general. The "what the country deems necessary" was not an actual answer as we were talking about you and HRC supporters in general. I will concede that you are under no obligation to answer but I just wanted to point that out.

To be clear, my intention, my goal in promoting programs like this is a stronger, smarter and more stable country. Yes, those things cost money and I am willing to pay my fair share.

[Trust Buster]

50. It's not a deflection. The degree to which policies can skew Left are proportional to the

amount of political power we have. This idea that President Obama caved is false and unfair. In 2014, some of the wealthiest Republicans in this country literally TOOK the Senate away from him. It didn't happen by accident. With the Supreme Court hanging in the balance, those same wealthy Republicans have already begun their brutal attacks on Democrats.

[angrychair]

55. Sorry, I failed to communicate clearly

My reference to "deflection" was related your response:
"Socialism is socialism. And yes, I've never supported it. That's my choice"

And your subsequent reply:
"Basic public needs are one thing. It's a matter of degree."

Since you were giving your personal perspective I was attempting to determine where you draw the line and what is and is not acceptable for your political position.

To restate:
So are you a little "socialist"?
What qualifies as a "basic public need"?
Some education but not to much?
Some medical care but not to much?
Some food but not to much?
Some roads but not all?
Some bridges but not all?

Still trying to figure out the angle here. A lot of the statements coming from HRC supporters at this point are socially liberal "ish" but otherwise very fiscally conservative. I say that because a lot have resorted to the "free stuff" meme which is not a liberal or progressive phrase. It is very libertarian and had it start with teapublicans. I honestly don't mean this as an insult but as a question, are you sure you are not a libertarian?

[NuclearDem]

57. Socialism is not a government providing basic public services.

By that argument, any government that's ever utilized law enforcement has been socialist.

Having the Interstate Highway System is one thing. Nationalizing the broadcast media, telecommunications, healthcare delivery, and power industries is something else entirely.

[NuclearDem]

36. Democratic Socialism is still socialism.

It may be evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but it's still socialism.

And no, Western Europe and Scandinavia aren't democratic socialist.

[angrychair]

41. I didn't say they were

I said he was. I never said anything about anyone else.

I did say:
"Plus he lays out a set of programs that are not very different than what many nations on Earth have been using successfully for a decade or more. "

Where did I say anyone, except Sanders, called themselves Democratic Socialist?

Still trying to figure out the angle here. A lot of the statements coming from HRC supporters at this point are socially liberal "ish" and otherwise very fiscally conservative. I say that because a lot of resorted to the "free stuff" meme which is not a liberal or progressive phrase. It it very libertarian. Are you sure you are not a libertarian?

[NuclearDem]

56. I know you didn't, sorry for the confusion.

That was less directed at you and more as a preemptive reply to people arguing that point.

I'm not a libertarian. I probably best subscribe to social democracy--a regulated market economy financing a strong welfare state, which is what the Nordic Model actually is.

[angrychair]

60. Ok, now I am confused

That is actually the concept that Sanders advocates. Well, actually, he has softened his approach on it to accommodate the push-back he has been getting. What Sanders is actually advocating for is an Americanized version.
So are you saying you don't want socialism but do want a Nordic social safety net style of services?
That is what I am advocating. while our taxes will go up, we will no longer pay out of pocket for those same services and therefore retain more of our annual income and have a stronger, more educated and more stable (economically and socially) than we do now.

[NuclearDem]

61. I see the confusion.

I don't disagree with Sanders' end goals. Universal undergraduate education, single payer, and regulating Wall Street are things I consider extremely important.

The reason I can't bring myself to back Sanders is practicality--I don't think he can't get elected, and even if he could, I don't think he would be able to get anything of the sort through Congress. The system is absolutely broken and needs major fixes, but until it gets those fixes, I have to work with this.

[angrychair]

64. Ok

Now we are on the same page.
I don't dispute that the path forward is rough but I also believe it isn't going to get any smoother.
I have been involved in politics a good while, about when Bush Sr became president.
I don't buy the counter-point that HRC is any more likely to win the GE or any more likely to achieve any level of legislative success than Sanders. It is historically very unlikely for a candidate to go on to win the GE with negative likability and trustworthy numbers (happened twice, yes her husband was one of the two).

Polling shows that Sanders is, at the very least, as likely, to get elected and his experience shows he is more likely to have some legislative success.
To be clear, I am not saying "legislative success" means he achieves his big ticket agenda items. I mean he at least sets the groundwork for these things to be more likely.

Despite the makeup of Congress, we have to move forward. Over the last several years that makeup has got worse, not better. We have to work aggressively to change that, not live with it or compromise with it.

I believe the visceral and substantial hate teapublicans have for Clinton will be a significant hindrance to any agenda she has and to any down ticket Democrats in this election and the mid-terms to follow if she is elected.

I realize the path is narrow for Sanders but it doesn't change my position, it just narrows my outlook for a better future for our country.

[revbones]

51. Demoratic Socialist - you should note the difference

[NuclearDem]

38. I'll save you a little headache.

When it comes to Sanders and socialism, we're dealing with alternating calendar days.

Some days, like today, Sanders absolutely isn't a socialist, and you're a horrible red baiting monster for saying so.

Other days, Sanders is a socialist, just like FDR and Denmark, and you saying otherwise means you have no idea what socialism is.

[reddread]

27. landslides in Idaho and Utah, among others and more to come

let me introduce the concept of "logic"

good luck.

[Trust Buster]

31. Small caucuses flooded with college students. Spare me your concept of logic.

[reddread]

47. Kansas?

where did that River Nial originally pass through?

[JoePhilly]

3. What if Hitler had a time machine?

[Renew Deal]

4. The 2020 primary wars have begun

[Merryland]

5. She would present herself as the more progressive candidate, undoubtedly.

[astrophuss42]

6. There outta be a law

Something akin to say, a third strike law...

[thereismore]

26. Boom. nt

[redstateblues]

7. After 4 years of making excuses why he couldn't deliver on his promises

Bernie would be primaried-Karma is a bitch- he would be pushing 80-He would be thrown under his own bus by disappointed "revolutionaries". Bernie would definitely be a one termer if a miracle happened and he won the nomination and the GE

[JackRiddler]

9. She would just be reaching his present age.

They can keep fighting all the way into the old folks' home. I think we have the plot of Coccoon III ready.

[onehandle]

11. LOL!

'President Sanders.'

Good one!

[DanTex]

15. She'll be busy running the country, Bernie can stay as president of the Burlington bowling league.

[INdemo]

17. She could but that would be her third try for a

3rd term and voters rejected her in 2008,will reject her in 2016 and GoldmanSachs will find another Republican to invest in for 2020

[Orsino]

20. Why shouldn't she? n/t

[Capt. Obvious]

21. The dream will never die

[MineralMan]

22. Sort of a premature electuation issue, it seems to me.

[Autumn Colors]

29. I'd like to see Elizabeth Warren as VP in 2016

... and then see her run for President in 2020.

Remember ... she said was not running for PRESIDENT in 2016. She said nothing about being a VP running mate and she didn't rule out EVER running for President in the future.

[reddread]

44. a lot of people suggested she was better off in the Senate than as POTUS

I think she would be more powerful and prominent in the Senate under a Sanders presidency.
Perhaps even better positioned for a run in 20.
I believe Sanders will choose a remarkable running mate, and Elizabeth Warren will be the leading figure in the Senate.
and they will change this country for the better.

[Karma13612]

58. +10 eom

[emulatorloo]

30. No

[Godhumor]

37. As a Hillary supporter

This is her last rodeo for president, in my opinion. She'll run for reelection if she wins, obviously, but otherwise I doubt it.

[bigwillq]

46. Unlikely--on all accounts (nt)

[winter is coming]

49. Possibly. The term is four years, not eight.

I don't think she'd win, but it's her option, if she wants to take it.

[arcane1]

52. If she did, primarying the incumbent will suddenly be perfectly ok to the hypocrites here.

[reddread]

59. yeah, I suppose so.

on a dime.

[wyldwolf]

53. Is 2020 a Senate election year? Why would she, as a sitting president, want to be Sen. of VT?

[AgerolanAmerican]

54. Hard to do from jail

but I suppose nothing is stopping her... except maybe that nasty cough

[PowerToThePeople]

62. Ask Goldman.

eom