Do Hillary supporters want to ban all guns?

[Cheese Sandwich]

I know some of them do because they post about it on the internet. Others don't say it outright but I get the impression they want to either ban all guns or make it so difficult that nobody can afford one.

[reddread]

1. just the ones they cant sell to BRUTAL DICTATORSHIPS

excellent question.

[jwirr]

34. +1

[Gwhittey]

2. You are going to have to wait

Till Hillary gives her opinion before her supporters can "give theirs"

[reddread]

4. have you noticed that too?

step off the beaten trail and they seem unable to respond immediately.
now THAT is message discipline!
thank you Madam, may I have another?

[upaloopa]

29. I can't wait until Hillary is nominated so this kind of post won't appear here

[reddread]

42. Free to censor at last!

hold your breath.

[Sancho]

3. No...here's what I want, and one big reason that I support Hillary over Bernie

People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

[Cheese Sandwich]

10. I agree with most of this stuff.

Thanks for posting this.

That is the type of gun control conversation we should be having.

[redstatebluegirl]

17. I totally agree!

I had a friend who was shot by her ex. His family had warned her that he had a gun and wanted to kill her. She called the cops and nothing could be done until he "acted" ok..well he did. Thankfully she survived. Everyone who knew this guy said he was the last person in the world who should have a gun. Bought it at a gun show in the city.

[rock]

44. I believe you have a

very reasonable stating point for discussion. (I don't object to any of it but do want to discuss it.) Thank you for organizing the points.

[kristopher]

81. What is your position on the Republican use of these types of restrictions ....

... on abortion access?

I'm not a gun rights advocate but I do recognize that part of the problem is the fact that many people in the discussion seem almost schizophrenic about the legitimate power of the state to step into personal rights.

My suggestion is that both issues are driven by a political elite that want us at each other's throats and that we can't find consensus on them until the influence of the shit-stirrers is dramatically diminished.

We have to stop the scapegoating and the first step in that is creating a more fair economic and educational playing field. When people have a sense of insecurity they are anxious, frightened and angry. When they feel secure in their life and future, those negative emotions are far less likely to motivate them to look for things to vent anger on.

Then, and only then, do we stand a chance of successfully finding solutions to the pernicious problems that divide us.

That's why we need Bernie to win. Do you want solutions or do you want eternal internecine social warfare?

[Sancho]

82. A license is no big deal...most people have several.

Some are more important (like driving or practicing medicine), others are mundane (like a certificate to rent scuba equipment).

It's a quality control - simple. It doesn't solve every problem. No one claims it does.

A license would prevent obviously dangerous people from easy access to guns. No point-of-sale data base, no registering guns, and no attempt to take guns away.

If someone has a better idea - let's hear it.

[kristopher]

83. That isn't responsive to what I wrote...

... but thank you for your opinion.

[Sancho]

85. All legislation can be reasonable or not depending on degree...

i think unreasonable restrictions should be avoided.

A license with insurance would be data driven - the insurance companies would keep actuarial statistics.

Most of the repub stuff is not empirical.

[stone space]

5. Is there a reason why you only ask Hillary supporters?

[OilemFirchen]

13. Is that a rhetorical question?

Is this a rhetorical answer?

[stone space]

16. I'd ban guns, but nobody asked me.

Is that a rhetorical question?

Just wondering why I wasn't asked, that's all.

[Cheese Sandwich]

21. Hillary supporters have called Bernie a gun nut and accuse him of getting support from the NRA

[all american girl]

22. Not a gun nut, but he did vote against the Brady bill 5 times.

I remember that in the 90's, and I remember being all for it. I don't think Bernie is a gun nut, but I do think this is important, and thank you for bringing it up. this is great!!!!

[stone space]

30. Do the opinions of Bernie supporters on gun bans not count? (nt)

[Cheese Sandwich]

37. This is about Hillary supporters who could try to ban all guns

Thanks for chiming in though

[jonno99]

6. My guess is that it is mostly those who live in a bubble:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018852318

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[ieoeja]

54. That is such a bullshit test.

If you have spent your entire life in a rural area never getting to know anyone outside your community ... you do not live in a bubble.

Really?

[jonno99]

59. Who made that claim? nt

[ieoeja]

68. The test makes that claim.

The more rural and blue collar you are, the more you score outside the bubble. The more urbane and white collar you are, the more you score inside the bubble.

It may work for scoring you vis-a-vis the white collar bubble. But it pretends there is no such thing as a blue collar bubble.

[kristopher]

80. Blue collar bubble?

You might want to work on those language skills. Words have meanings.

[ieoeja]

87. As someone who spends extensive time in both worlds, yes, there absolutely is a blue collar bubble.

In fact, I would say the blue collar bubble is far worse than the white collar bubble. I have certainly run into white collars who are completely clueless about blue collar life. But they are generally few and far between.

While in the blue collar world ignorance of (and disdain for) the white collar world is commonplace.

Sounds like you need to expand your horizons more.

[kristopher]

88. Doubling down on wrong doesn't make you right.

You STILL fundamentally misdefine what it means to be in a bubble. Here's a tip - it derives from a famous case involving a child with an immune deficiency disease who literally lived in a protective bubble.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_DeVita


Keyword: protective

[ieoeja]

89. Doubling down on dickishness doesn't make you less of a dick.

The bubble we're talking about protects their sense of self-worth, superiority, rightness, etc. And if you don't think a lot of blue collar people believe that they are morally superior, more reliable, etc to/than white collar people, then you have very little experience with blue collar people.

[kristopher]

90. Resorting to personal attacks? Come on!

To paint yourself in an even worse light, you then show that you are just making it up as you go along.

The bubble we're talking about protects their sense of self-worth, superiority, rightness, etc. And if you don't think a lot of blue collar people believe that they are morally superior, more reliable, etc to/than white collar people, then you have very little experience with blue collar people.

The bubble boy lived in an environment that provided protection from the normal, everyday threats that face common people. So, unless you are claiming that the working class environment protects them from the everyday threats to their existence faced by the wealthy....?

Your logic is reminiscent of those white bigots complaining that they are victims of "racist blacks". They are both cases that simply can't be. Why? Because words matter; they have meanings. And those meanings exclude the possibility of both "black racists" in the US and "living in a bubble" by the working class.

[ieoeja]

91. Got it. There is no Fox News bubble.

Since most Fox News watchers are not wealthy, watching Fox News does not protect them from anything. Hence, the well known, well documented Fox News bubble does not exist even though virtually everyone in the world accepts that it exist.

Because you get to define what a bubble is in this context. And it does not fit your definition.

[kristopher]

92. You are a victim of confirmation bias

A "Fox News Bubble" is consistent with the definition I gave. It's referring to fox news as the protective envelope surrounding the belief system of their viewers.

Do you see how that works? Again keyword is "protective". Within your usage, what is protecting the working class and what threats facing common people are they being protected from?

[ieoeja]

93. Already answered "what threats facing common people".

The bubble we're talking about protects their sense of self-worth, superiority, rightness, etc.

[kristopher]

94. No, you've totally failed to answer the point.

Once more with feeling...

A "Fox News Bubble" is consistent with the definition I gave. It's referring to fox news as the protective envelope surrounding the belief system of their viewers.

Do you see how that works? Again keyword is "protective". Within your usage, what is protecting the working class and what threats facing common people are they being protected from?

Fox news IS the bubble

Wealth IS the bubble

What IS the bubble that protects working families from the reality of threats faced by common people?

Hell, it's nuts to even frame the question since working families are, (again) by definition, The Common People.

[baldguy]

97. Notice the test was created by Charles Murray of "The Bell Curve" infamy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

[salinsky]

7. No ... nt

[MineralMan]

8. I doubt that there is any unanimous desire

in that regard among Clinton supporters. I imagine they have all sorts of opinions on firearms control. Why would you suppose that they all feel the same about that?

I'm sure there are some who want to ban all firearms, and that's no doubt true of Bernie supporters, too. But, to ask whether it is the universal belief of the supporters of any candidate seems silly to me. There are no unanimous opinions about any policies.

[redstatebluegirl]

78. Thank you for that.

If I put 20 of my friends, who are all Democrats, in a room you would have at least 4 different opinions on what to do, it could be 20 different opinions.

I support Hillary, gun control is important to me. I'm not sure I have the answer to how to curb what is going on but I do know I don't like going into a store and seeing someone shopping with a gun on their hip if they aren't a police officer.

I don't like the idea of gun show loopholes either. I was raised on a farm with shotguns my Dad used to protect the livestock and shoot rats in the corn crib. He taught us to respect those weapons, they were always locked up. I never liked them myself, but my brother did.

I don't want their guns, but I want some controls. If we can license automobiles and reissue that license every few years, why can't we do that with guns.

I find it interesting that some supporters of both candidates want a take it or leave it kind of thing. All of us are different, our reasons for supporting whomever we support are personal to us and our own life.

Democrats going after each other like this is just not good for any of us. I have said this before, I will vote for the nominee of the Democratic party and will work tirelessly to elect them over Trump, Cruz or any of the other fascists out there.

[hrmjustin]

9. Is this meant to bait us or shame those of us that are for gun control.

[Cheese Sandwich]

19. I just had the impression Hillary was leading an anti-gun movement

[hrmjustin]

20. She is for Reasonable gun control. But you knew that.

[Cheese Sandwich]

23. She seems to be stirring up a lot of anti-gun extremists

Some of her supporters have been around the internet calling Senator Sanders a "gun nut". It doesn't inspire much confidence.

[hrmjustin]

24. She has courage to stand up to the NRA.

unlike others.

[dogman]

43. What would the difference amount to?

Consider total years voting with what you claim are pro NRA votes. What is the percentage difference?

[Cheese Sandwich]

61. This isn't about the NRA. This is about Hillary supporters who want to ban all guns.

[hrmjustin]

62. Are you trying to shame them if they do?

[Cheese Sandwich]

63. Do you feel ashamed about it?

[hrmjustin]

64. No.

[Hoyt]

11. Not for banning all guns. Let folks keep one or two AT HOME for hunting and defense. But no public

toting, intimidation, hoards of weapons or ammo, etc. We'd be much better off like England, etc. Even Australia is now benefiting from it's restrictions enacted in 1996. Fact is, every decade we fail to bite the bullet and tell gun fanciers to suck it up, another 100 million guns are snapped up by degenerates like this --



http://proxy.topixcdn.com/ipicimg/PCMQFI4FN4GUVUNN-v1-fram810x414x810x414

[redstatebluegirl]

18. Aren't they so cute with their big guns...

[jonno99]

31. Yep - cause these guys can ALWAYS be trusted...

[Hoyt]

36. I trust them more than these guys.

?resize=300%2C169

[jonno99]

45. LOL - why, because they don't wear black masks? You're not one of those

who live in a bubble - are you?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018852318

btw - I don't know any of the folks in your pics, although the guy at the bottom does look a bit like that asshat Zimmerman...

[Hoyt]

75. If you know a gun fancier, you know some of those guys. Yes, that's George "Stand Your Ground" Zman,

an icon to racist gun lovers all over Merica.

[forjusticethunders]

67. as a young black male

can I take "none of the above"?

[JoePhilly]

12. No.

[hack89]

15. Look. Either candidate will be good for gun owners once in office

I am a gun owner and a Hillary supporter - I am not worried about anyone taking my guns away.

[dogman]

38. Are you happy with her inference Bernie is an NRA supporter?

Don't you think this is an "artful smear"?

[hack89]

41. I don't care one way or the other.

a typical primary tempest in a teacup.

Bernie would be equally good for gun owners as Hillary.

[dogman]

46. Yet she presents victims of gun violence to bash Bernie.

Then cries about tone. Typical Primary from a typical politician. A shame because it is a non-issue between them.

[hack89]

48. They are both career politicians

that is why I don't get worked up about the he said she said minutia of the primaries.

[geek tragedy]

25. oh noez, Hillary is coming to grab our gunz! Will no one think of the poor gunz? nt

[hrmjustin]

26. On DU of all places.

[geek tragedy]

27. any port in a storm nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

28. Some of them do want to grab all the guns.

Take a look at reply #14

[geek tragedy]

32. This is not going to be a winning message for you on a Democratic website nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

39. It's understandable if you want to ban all guns

After all the tragedies. It's good to just be open about your opinions though.

Hillary supporters are making this a major issue so they would be happy to talk about it.

I don't agree with that though and "winning DU" is not really important at all.

[dogman]

40. How did Al Gore lose his homestate?

It wasn't Nader.

[geek tragedy]

50. same way every Democrat loses Tennessee, Tennessee is really, really rightwing nt

[dogman]

52. Yeah, I guess he and his father were only Senators from Tennessee.

He and Bil Clinton carried Tennessee. The NRA conducted a full on assault against his Presidential bid. If he had carried Tennessee again, he would have been President.

[geek tragedy]

53. The south has been undergoing realignment over the past 50 years

white southerners have fully migrated from the Democratic party of Strom Thurmond and George Wallace to the Republican party of Donald Trump and Lee Atwater

[dogman]

57. And how much influence has the NRA had on that fact?

Lee Atwater preceded the Clinton-Gore victory. The guns, god, and gays meme changed the South. The NRA has been a major factor.

[geek tragedy]

60. race is the driving force. nt

[dogman]

65. Ok

[stone space]

49. Some Bernie supporters want to "grab all guns"

Take a look at reply #16.

[Cheese Sandwich]

56. Hillary Clinton is positioning herself as the leader of the anti-gun crusade

She wants to hold small gun shops liable for any accident that happens with a gun they sold.

She actually voted for that in the Senate.

[stone space]

86. Do you support the PLCAA? Is that what this is all about? (nt)

[LanternWaste]

33. We don't want to ban all guns, just yours...

We don't want to ban all guns, just yours...

My response contains the same amount of sincerity as your question. You may not say it outright, but I get the impression you know her position, and yet ask this in bad faith. (Six of one, half a dozen of the other)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

35. Some do, most don't.

Personally, I think that we've got gun control about right here in the UK. But there's zero chance of that happening in the USA, and the majority of Hillary supporters, like the majority of other Americans, disagree with me.

[insta8er]

47. Maybe we should all make a donation to the Clinton foundation before we can have our gun? it works

for Saudi Arabia.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. Which Hillary is that? In 08 she was so pro-gun that Obama said she was acting like Annie Oakley

and she did tell stories of shooting a duck. I feed ducks myself, but she bragged about 'bagging one with her gun. Obama mocked this. He said shame on her, she knows better....

[workinclasszero]

55. Strawman

No one wants to ban all guns.

That like saying because the state demands you have a license and auto insurance, they want to ban cars!

I think military assault weapons should be banned though. There's no reason for a person to own one unless they are planning to murder a great amount of people sometime in the future.

[Cheese Sandwich]

58. People do want to ban all guns. Or they want to make it so expensive nobody can afford it.

I see it on the internet all the time.

They want to hold small gun shop owners liable for accidents they aren't responsible for. Hillary voted for that.
She could run thousands of stores out of business. It's a back door way of trying to ban all guns.

[workinclasszero]

66. If you call new technology to make guns safer too expensive

You place a damn small value on innocent human life friend, such as when a 3 year old picks up daddy's loaded pistol for instance.

Maybe we should not have anti lock brakes and airbags in cars as well huh? They would be a lot cheaper no doubt.

[Cheese Sandwich]

69. I'm not getting a lecture on the value of human life from people who supported this:

Endless war and destruction, flooding Africa and the middle east with weapons, dropping radioactive material on Iraqi cities, blaming and shaming the victims telling them they need to appreciate the "gift of freedom", selling the resulting disaster as a "business opportunity", laughing maniacally at the idea of nuking Iran, or at the lynching of the Libyan dictator, and that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of Hillary Clinton not caring about the value of human life.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=342032

or this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1413353

[workinclasszero]

70. So pity other countries

but a big FU for Americans?

Bernie kept the F-35 fighter/bomber program alive so it can bomb those people and he voted to dump radioactive waste on a small minority town in Texas as well.

No pity for them huh? Not to mention him carrying water for the NRA by protecting big gun manufacturers from lawsuits and voting against the Brady bill, 5...count em...5 times!

Bernie Sanders Doubles Down on F-35 Support Days After Runway Explosion
By Carl Gibson, Reader Supported News
03 June 14


Me: “You mentioned wasteful military spending. The other day ... I’m sure you’ve heard about the F-35 catching fire on the runway. The estimated lifetime expense of the F-35 is $1.2 trillion. When you talk about cutting wasteful military spending, does that include the F-35 program?”

Bernie Sanders: “No, and I’ll tell you why – it is essentially built. It is the airplane of the United States Air Force, Navy, and of NATO. It was a very controversial issue in Vermont. And my view was that given the fact that the F-35, which, by the way, has been incredibly wasteful, that’s a good question. But for better or worse, that is the plane of record right now, and it is not gonna be discarded. That’s the reality.”

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/24583-bernie-sanders-doubles-down-on-f-35-support-days-after-runway-explosion

Bernie Sanders' Nuclear Waste Votes Divide Texas Activists
by Jamie Lovegrove Feb. 28, 2016

In the late 1990s, when now-U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont was a member of the House, he supported a compact between Maine, Vermont and Texas that originally proposed dumping low-level radioactive waste in a small minority community in far-West Texas, putting him at odds with other progressive congressmen.
http://www.texastribune.org/2016/02/28/Sanders-Nuclear-Waste-Votes-Divide-Texas-Activists/

[Cheese Sandwich]

71. Hillary Clinton is leading the anti-gun movement. Michael Bloomberg is the other leader of it.

[workinclasszero]

72. Most Americans Agree With Obama That More Gun Buyers Should Get Background Checks

Most Americans Agree With Obama That More Gun Buyers Should Get Background Checks
By CARL BIALIK

Consistently, at least 70 percent of Americans said they favor background checks. Often, far more do. In October, a CBS News/New York Times poll found that 92 percent of Americans — including 87 percent of Republicans — favor background checks for all gun buyers.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-americans-agree-with-obama-that-more-gun-buyers-should-get-background-checks/

Most Americans are in favor of stricter gun control. Its funny as hell when the followers of a so-called "man of the people", a "champion of democracy" suddenly drop all that when it comes to GUNZ!!!!

[Cheese Sandwich]

74. So what we all support better gun control. Very few are joining the crusade to ban all guns

[workinclasszero]

79. Hillary isn't either.

[TheDormouse]

73. If they do, then they are supporting the wrong candidate nt

[Eleanors38]

76. Umm, what time is it?

[LonePirate]

77. This Bernie supporter wants to ban all guns.

If we care about each other, then banning guns is a must.

[stone space]

96. I don't think our opinions count in this thread.

This Bernie supporter wants to ban all guns.

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. Yup... until the general election at which time she'll become Annie Oakley again. n/t

[Odin2005]

95. Hillary is an authoritarian, of course she wants to ban guns.

Authoritarians like taking away people's right to defend themselves.