2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumdon't want to argue -- just want to ask a question.
what happens if bernie becomes president and he can't fulfill his promises? how will his supporters feel?
does anyone think congress will work with him after all he's said about them -- "they're all taking money", etc. (which is true).
remember what obama went through trying to get ACA passed and he's a likable guy.
that being said. i'd rather have a president who gets nothing done than a republican who will push through their agenda.
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WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)they should all be impeached.
And when I say support, I mean work with him to craft it into workable form if necessary, and do the best they can to pass it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That means watering down the legislation ... something that is wholly unacceptable, here.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)There are many ways to skin a cat.
So if the goal of universal expansion if Medicare as a singie payer system has to start with something like a public option, that would probably be fine with most advicates -- as long as it is moving in the direction of that goal.
The pointbis to set goals and move towards them. Not abandon them from the start, or do thongs thst are contrary to them.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Have you ever written policy that affects broad constituencies with different interests? The phase before ever putting any of the elements down on paper is talking to those constituencies to see what is possible.
Do you doubt that the Public Option was discussed at that phase and determined to be a non-starter?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)That was not the result of "talking to different constituencies" other than the insurance industry and big pharma.They shut out advocates for public insurance from the start. Instead they caved in to insurance advocates like Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman -- and they allowed the GOP to drive the narrative without standing up for even a public option, which would have been a compriomise.
It was political surrender from the start, and it ended up with something that was much too complex -- and which further tightened the grip of private insurance, while forcing the American people and employers to continue to get screwed with bad, overpriced coverage.
It was typical of why I and millions of Americans are tired of that approach to everything.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)What about the Republican-controlled Congress that is unlikely to change because of gerrymandering?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)The OP was about how Bernie's supporters would react if he's unable to get anything done.
I believe (and this is only my opinion) that Hillary supporters have a more realistic view of what's likely to happen if EITHER candidate gains the WH. As a result of the likely Repub-controlled Congress, I think NEITHER candidate will be able to get a whole lot done. But I think Hillary supporters are more prepared for that than Bernie's, who seem to be more idealistically dreamer-y. And we need people to be prepared for the obstructionism that Obama faced, because we need them to turn out for the midterms in 2018.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)you try for nothing and you get nothing.
you try for a very little and you'll be lucky if you get very little
you try for big things, you may or may not get all the way, but you're likely to make progress and may eventually get it all.
Sanders himself always makes the cautionary emphasis in his speeches that it will not be easy getting what is proposing done. He also emphasizes that he can't do it alone, and if people want things, they are going to have to pitch in and help.
I find that much preferable to the kind of "realism" that has driven us into the ditch since the 1980's.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,534 posts)We know he cannot do it alone.
I think his supporters know full well that they will need to be involved in getting the Congress motivated.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)a way out and honestly telling us that he cannot do it alone.
One thing we will win the day he is elected is a president who will not sell us out to the corporatists. A president who will tell us the truth and ask us to help him. A president who cares for the people he serves - the 99%.
As to how we will feel if he cannot get things done - damned angry but not at him. There is a whole congress to blame and a bunch of corporations/banks we will be angry at and a lot of rich folks in the 1%. We will not be distracted.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,534 posts)CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)And that is why I'm supporting and donating only to Bernie Sanders.
amiright?
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,534 posts)That's exactly right.
I am mainly donating to Bernie, but I'm also donating to the fellow running against DWS.
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)he cannot do it alone. That is not a promise.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)This will be the response.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)We will have a lot of work to do. We cannot help him win and then leave him and say "okay, see ya in 4 years!". We have to stay engaged and POUND on our representatives to support Bernie.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)That is more than we got from "Hope and Change" who sold out to Republicans pretty much right away.
RKP5637
(67,089 posts)
Joob
(1,065 posts)
onecaliberal
(32,786 posts)It will make what they did to Obama look like child's play. This argument always cracks me up. They will come out in droves to vote against her to give is the next republican POTUS.
RKP5637
(67,089 posts)onecaliberal
(32,786 posts)Her cronies and her bought and paid for unelected "super delegates"
JeffHead
(1,186 posts)Welcome to 4 years of impeachment hearings.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Sanders will not disband and discourage his grass roots organization once he is elected, he will ask them to keep political pressure on.
I haven't seen this once common meme image in quite a while...
BainsBane
(53,016 posts)are those who have decided to disregard all evidence around them and substitute it with Bernie's campaign slogans.
I continue to receive emails from Obama encouraging me to get involved in various issues. He has maintained his network since he's been in the oval office. If you haven't been involved, that's a matter of your own decision, not that Obama "disbanded and discouraged" them. I mean really. How can you even get to the place where you write that sort of thing?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)in a way that was not an homage to Obama. That piece of crap meme was posted to LGBT dozens of times in response to posts critical of his first term opposition to equality. That meme is a symbol to me of everything that was flat out wrong about the DU Obama Group. Obama never said that. His fan club said it endlessly.
SCantiGOP
(13,866 posts)And everything will be fine.
In other words, he can't possibly deliver what he proposes and it would be a serious setback back to the progressive movement.
think
(11,641 posts)He tells the people they will need to get involved to work for the change and that he can't do it alone.
Bernie is leading the way but he's up against a powerful and wealthy machine.
His supporters understand what's at stake...
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Your question:
"What happens if bernie becomes president and he can't fulfill his promises?"
My answer:
Bernie Sanders becomes President and can't fulfill his promises. That possibility is BETTER THAN ANY FUCKING ALTERNATIVE OUT THERE.
Melurkyoulongtime
(136 posts)
Jackilope
(819 posts)Blue Doggery and Third Way Corporate scumbags get called out and primary their sorry butts out.
People are angry. Rightfully so. This is pitchfork and torch time.
Recoverin_Republican
(218 posts)
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)I think Trump is better than either of them. He got a lot of democratic leanings.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Obama did accomplish a lot, even though the republicans fought him all the way, and yet some turned on him shortly after he was elected because he didn't prioritize like the wanted him to. The same thing will happen with Bernie. Those who think he will change everything, provide medicare for all, free college tuition, tax the rich etc. will turn on him within the first year if nothing is accomplished. I am willing to bet some of the same Obama haters, no Hillary haters, will be right there to bash him when they don't get what they wanted.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)had hoped he would get an infrastructure bill passed but they wouldn't let him.
i know i'm not alone saying this but a lot had to do with racism.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)You are gone
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)This is why we lost the midterms in 2010. Obama spent so much time on ACA, which was like giving birth to a baby the size of Texas with the Repub obstructionism, that people were disillusioned that he hadn't got much done despite a Dem-controlled Congress. Then we had the gerrymandering after the Repubs took back control in 2010, and that's why we're stuck with the Repub-controlled Congress for like 4 more years.
Obama was not prepared for the obstructionism he faced. They wouldn't work with him, no matter WHAT he did. He needed 3/5 to pass ACA, and had to water it down to what it is now to get it.
I believe Hillary has a better chance to get her agenda (which is more incremental) through than Bernie's far-left proposals. But the fact is, neither of them is likely to be able to accomplish much of note. Until we can remove the redistricting problem, we are stuck with it.
PufPuf23
(8,756 posts)There is a time to fail. He will at first. Others will need to join and leaders found to follow into the future.
Al I expect is the effort to try with hope for the future.
We have lost ground to the neo-liberals and neo-conservatives for over a generation.
It will likely take that much time to turn the nation and build a new basis.
I also would expect Sanders to only be a one term POTUS because of his age.
We would have four years to find a candidate to follow his footsteps through the wilderness of liberal idealism and turn policy into reality.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)going to demand more from their leaders.
PufPuf23
(8,756 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)It would be nice if we could get campaign finance changed. I don't think anyone wants it the way it is, but nobody wants to be the first to lay down their weapons. We need legislation.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Of either/both parties. And, remind any of them that represent me that my vote for them depends on their votes in congress.
Just as I do now.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Then they'll prop up the nearest Democrat-hating Nader-wannabe zombie as the next "SAVIOR OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!"
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Sanders' platform aren't promises but rather a collection of goals for voters to rally around. Soc Sec, healthcare, education, wages, discrimination. Most of these are separate fights that started decades ago and will continue long after November.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Bernie is a little late to this particular party.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)
blue neen
(12,319 posts)
Mike Nelson
(9,944 posts)...it will hurt the Democrats as it has the Republicans. They've promised an end of abortions for years. Now, Ted Cruz leads them to believe he's going to repeal "Obamacare" on day one. People don't know how government works.
...but Bernie will have an advantage. If he becomes President, a large amount of people will have supported a move to the left (very progressive/liberal). Public support counts, and Bernie supporters are smarter than Cruz supporters.
...however, Republicans will not let him do anything. They will have a counter-revolution. One of the biggest "flaws" in his supporters' thinking is that Republicans have thoroughly ate up and chewed out rival Hillary - giving an advantage to Bernie. There is no advantage. They will not let Bernie in without slinging the worst at him - and it won't be mud.
...what has to happen is a Democratic victory across the board - with Hillary, Obama, Sanders, Warren and all the other forces uniting to get the Senate and House. Then, they have to stay united and cement progressive ideals. Alas, that kind of victory is not likely to happen.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I suspect that voters will abandon both major parties. And for the record, from what I have been told by Sanders supporters, they expect the same kind of obstruction as Obama got, or worst.
BainsBane
(53,016 posts)because the fact he wants to fulfill them is enough. Or rather the fact he's convinced his supporters he wants to fulfill them.
The bottom line is what gets accomplished doesn't matter. They rather have nothing accomplished by someone they like than some things accomplished by someone they don't.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Because the only things Hillary will accomplish with the current congress are things we shouldn't want.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I'm so sick of that gossipy, Capehart archness, that Walter Winchell, Matt Drudge attempted coyness that belly flops all over DU.
If someone said something to you, cite them. 'I'm told'. Then you do the 'or rather' because no one 'told' you anything, you are just writing fiction and characterization like the Rona Barret of politics. 'I'm told...and let me share with you....that these people are just as I say they are, horrrrible!!!!!!!'
Get real. So boring and utterly unbelievable and contrived. 'I'm told'. Jesus H Cristos.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)But, I do expect the most vulnerable people in our society to finally get the help they need. That is where we have to start. People who are already middle class need help to stay there. People who are in poverty and I mean the cupboards are empty a couple days every single month kind the kind where you have to worry if your car is running on fumes and you have to decide if you are going to eat or get a gallon of gas. The kind of poverty where you need dental work, but you don't get it because you have no money for that. The kind of poverty where there is no money to celebrate holidays at least not in the way most people are familiar with birthdays with no gifts homemade cakes no ice cream and the guest list is very limited no friends for the birthday child because who can afford to feed all those people that show up?
edgineered
(2,101 posts)There are so many invisible people; those who hide from being seen in public, maybe for reasons as basic as having shoes without laces, a lack of adequate clothing, an inability to maintain their grooming, or self exile because they're dangerously underweight and don't have the strength to endure a long walk. These people aren't on anyone's radar. Its as if they don't even exist, but there are so many. The Commanding Officer at our recruiting headquarters called me aside on day to tell me, there are a lot of good people living under bridges. A recruiter was trying to enlist someone using an intersection as an address and I was refusing to process the paperwork because the rules said... an address was a requirement. What a valueable lesson I learned that day. I've never looked at a person in need the same way since, nor do I allow anyone around get away with passing off their bad judgement. Thanks for sharing what you said, it touched a soft spot.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)The only way Bernie's agenda will be possible is if NO MORE TRADE DEALS lock away huge chunks of policy FOREVER.
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]That said, unless we can get back control of the Senate and house, neither candidate will get anything done.[/font]
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)He's telling us what his values and goals are.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)Has full filled his agenda, they all try and realistically they usually get parts done never get it all done and no matter who actually wins this time the all face the same odds. So unless we get the senate and house back into dem hands it wil remain the same.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)people are willing to work to attain a better country. Your dishonest characterization of Bernie's campaign is typical of the Clinton culture. I am so sick up and fed with the whole thing.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)seems you couldn't resist saying something nasty.
have a good evening.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and that's what I'm saying to you. Your OP is argumentative, belligerent and aggressive. Playing 'I don't want to argue, it's just a question' coy ass games does not alter the truth of your OP's objective, which is not inquiry but characterization and smearing. You don't want to argue, you want to preach against Bernie uncontested. Not going to happen.
The whole passive aggressive condescension routine is old and tired and it needs to be cashed in for better material. Get off your high horse, cut the crap. No one buys it.
jillan
(39,451 posts)is a president that will negotiate from the left instead of the middle.
TheFarseer
(9,317 posts)At least that's more than anyone else would have done. Hillary wants to lock hands with the republicans and march into a lake. Who knows what trump would do. Cruz is by far the worst.
frustrated_lefty
(2,774 posts)He aims high, and is unlikely to achieve a lot of his goals. He'll face a gridlocked congress and a lot of resistance from the moneyed elite. A Sander's presidency will not be all flowers and unicorns. It will likely be tumultuous.
What he can do is move discussions of consequence back towards the center. The focus of discussion for the last 16 years has really been a discussion between center-right and far-right outside of social issues. He can give voice to many of the things a lot of us have been screaming at the top of our lungs that are ignored by the media. He can probably close Gitmo's suspected terrorist wing, alleviating a stain on America's history.
All of that said, most importantly he'll remind us this is a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. Rather than voting straight party line tickets, we have the option of donating directly to representatives who represent our interests.
Personally, I think Obama folded too early on a lot of issues. I trust Bernie to make a genuine stand and fight.
Vinca
(50,237 posts)It's foolish to assume if either Bernie or Hillary is elected the mood will suddenly become cooperative and anything will get done. If Bernie becomes president and faces the same obstruction Obama has, I will continue to support him as I have done Obama (with exceptions for the GOP-inspired legislation he sometimes takes a liking to). I think Bernie's chances of getting something done are a little better than Hillary's based solely on decades of GOP opposition to Hillary. I think they despise her more than Obama.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)He took single payer off the table before the GOP demanded it be taken off.
He jumped back on the fence where gay rights were concerned ("it's just a prayer" and then asked that we "hold his feet to the fire".
He went third way the moment he took office, surrounding himself with Geithner and Clinton and Rahm Emmanuel. It's no wonder he didn't deliver on his promises. But not for the reason you intimate. He didn't get things done because he wouldn't invest himself in getting them done.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)The House of Representatives passed the bill with the government option intact. President Obama pushed with every bit of pull he had to get the bill through.
The Insurance lobby also through everything they had at defeating the public option.
As early as July 18, 2009, President Obama stated “Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange—a one-stop-shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, costs and track records of a variety of plans, including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest...”
This was his goal from the beginning, and he pushed it through as far as it would go.
The Senate was where it was killed. The insurance industry KNEW they only needed 1.. just ONE senator to force the issue. They found that Senator in Joe Lieberman. Joe, the Independent from the insurance capital of the world.
Without Joe, the ACA bill was dead in the water. Joe would only sign on if the Single payer was removed.
In the end Obama had 2 choices.. accept the loss of the single payer option and get the ACA signed into law, or drop the ACA all together.
It WAS and IS the better choice of 2 shit sandwiches.
You want more progressive laws? (I say this collectively, not just at you the individual poster I'm replying to) Then stop just focusing on the Presidency and get a Progressive congress.
Hillary Clinton's plan is more feasible, if much less ambitious. Even then, most of her policies are bullshit as well without a congress to make it happen. But, as everyone likes to point out, she evolves. You give her a more progressive congress, and she'll sign more progressive laws. I absolutely believe she's willing to be more progressive, but pragmatism demands differently.
Bernie's plans are not even close to being feasible with the outlook of the 115th congress, and unless we start NOW the 116th isn't shaping up to be much prettier. How many bills has the house passed to kill the ACA as it is since it was passed? I've lost count. This is the congress that Bernie's going to push Single payer through on??? Reality check, aisle 3.
I'm with Hillary, not because she has the best policies.. she doesn't. I'm with her because much of what Bernie's supporters say here is true (in my own opinion). Most of the establishment is too close to corporate interests. Joe Lieberman was a perfect example. Change doesn't start with getting a candidate like Bernie elected.. that's how it finishes. The first thing is to get a congress elected that will make a Bernie Sanders POTUS effective.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)It would be a lot easier to get one if half the party weren't bent on nominating a presidential candidate with 57 % disapproval ratings. That's negative coattails territory, right there.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)the laws that are written and get to the Presidents desk for signature.
THIS is where the real focus needs to be, but seems to drum up so little interest:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MZGzbSWESE8t18GGzrgc2FfL0b5tz-vmNf-F_-w5yN4/htmlview
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)and she and her cronies do so to the detriment of the party, the country, and the world.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)To me, that means you are bringing it up here just to create arguments, despite your title.
ecstatic
(32,653 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)of congressional representatives who obstruct the passage of laws favored by majorities of Democratics and majorities of Republicans.
Instead of a midterm backslide, he'll work for midterm gains to pass the progressive reforms favored by wide majorities regardless of party affiliation.
krawhitham
(4,641 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)
Orsino
(37,428 posts)I fully expect that a President Sanders will fail to enact all the change he promises to work for...but if he can win our nomination and the general, he will also be working with a better Congress and Judicial Branch.
The failure will largely be, as it has alway been, ours. We can have the change we want, once enough of us decide we really, really want it.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Stop lying. You sound like Clinton.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)entire thread? the reason i asked the question was because i originally supported bernie, but a few months ago after carefully listening to the debates i decided to support hillary. her goals are more realistic and have a better chance of being passed.
that being said i still think bernie has some great ideas and if he's the nominee he'll get my full support. i've never said anything negative about him. i have had a few disagreements with some of his supporters.
please don't tell me how terrible hillary is. i see the posts every day.
stone space
(6,498 posts)The ongoing Pacifist Purges of Higher Education in the USA, initiated in the early 1980s, continues to this day unabated.
When candidates don't care about whether or not we are allowed access to education and don't bother to try to get us access, there is no risk of failure.
Failure is only a risk when we actually try.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)unless you've never actually listened to him or his supporters before.
Here are the only two promises I've heard him make:
https://berniesanders.com/bernies-announcement/
http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/07/bernie_sanders_pitches_louisia.html
Both of those promises can, have been in the case of the first, and will be in the case of the second, fulfilled.
For the rest, he hasn't promised, but offered a vision, and a set of policies he will work for. When it comes to enacting them, he says, every single time, "I can't do it alone." That's what the political revolution he's always talking about is: citizens getting active, getting involved, to help achieve progress on that vision.
And that is why what this campaign is about is saying loudly and clearly. It is not just about electing Bernie Sanders for president, it is about creating a grassroots political movement in this country."
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3hiuhq/bernie_sanders_let_me_tell_you_something_that_no/
http://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/bernie-sanders-in-iowa-city-think-big-make-political-revolution-20150530
djean111
(14,255 posts)He is not going to appoint Wall Streeters to cabinet posts, he is not going to ask Rick Fucking Warren to give the convocation.
And - I would rather Bernie got nothing done - than have Third Way neocon hawk Hillary get anything done.
Oh, I feel the same, except I would add Hillary to the list of those whose agenda I do not want to see pushed through.
