Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

pantsonfire

(1,306 posts)
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:50 PM Apr 2016

Shame on you, @BernieSanders try living one hour of our lives. Love, the #SandyHook Principal's Daug

Sandy Hook family member @EricaSmegs wants Bernie Sanders to apologize over gun stance.
https://twitter.com/danmericaCNN/status/717786454668259330

Info about gun manufacturers immunity:
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/10/06/446348616/fact-check-are-gun-makers-totally-free-of-liability-for-their-behavior

&quot Clinton's statement) doesn't appear to be completely accurate," said Adam Winkler, professor of law at UCLA and author of Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, in an email to NPR. "The 2005 law does not prevent gun makers from being held liable for defects in their design. Like car makers, gun makers can be sued for selling a defective product. The problem is that gun violence victims often want to hold gun makers liable for the criminal misuse of a properly functioning product."

Clinton is wrong that gun manufacturers have no liability for their products, but she's right that they have unique protections from lawsuits that most other businesses — and particularly consumer product-makers — do not.
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Shame on you, @BernieSanders try living one hour of our lives. Love, the #SandyHook Principal's Daug (Original Post) pantsonfire Apr 2016 OP
Exploiting victims of a tragedy. Another fine tactic from Hillary & Co. nt revbones Apr 2016 #1
It's a regular tactic for her; she toured the South with mothers of shooting victims as props nt BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #5
Yep revbones Apr 2016 #6
It was always a cheap political tactic, but this is taking it to a new level BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #12
When GM has people suing it after being hit by a stolen Chevy Malibu Press Virginia Apr 2016 #2
When GM starts making cars that don't require a key, they would jberryhill Apr 2016 #7
Which gun manufacturer makes guns that require a key? Fumesucker Apr 2016 #10
He believes Remington et al should implement Press Virginia Apr 2016 #16
That sounds like "none" to my ears Fumesucker Apr 2016 #18
You are a very shitty mind reader jberryhill Apr 2016 #20
lets say the owner left it unlocked with the key in the ignition, which is more likely Press Virginia Apr 2016 #11
GM sold it with anti-theft features which the owner didn't use jberryhill Apr 2016 #32
is that different from gun owners who don't lock up their guns? Press Virginia Apr 2016 #36
Yes it is different jberryhill Apr 2016 #38
You can't? Press Virginia Apr 2016 #40
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't trolling BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #17
People are sued over legal products every day jberryhill Apr 2016 #19
When those products are defective. Press Virginia Apr 2016 #23
People steal cars for the purpose of running over pedestrians? jberryhill Apr 2016 #24
Does it matter WHY they ran you over in their stolen Malibu? Press Virginia Apr 2016 #25
Right jberryhill Apr 2016 #27
Some steal guns to commit crimes Press Virginia Apr 2016 #30
The dealership should be held accountable too DebDoo Apr 2016 #9
No doubt Press Virginia Apr 2016 #13
Firestone as well if the tires touched them. Any foundries that made the metal for the bumpers too. revbones Apr 2016 #15
the intrinsic function of a vehicle is not to kill ibegurpard Apr 2016 #21
I'm speaking to GM's liability should their vehicle be used in a crime Press Virginia Apr 2016 #22
Cars have anti-theft devices jberryhill Apr 2016 #26
And owners still leave their doors unlocked with the keys in the ignition Press Virginia Apr 2016 #28
So? jberryhill Apr 2016 #29
What is it with you and locks and keys? Press Virginia Apr 2016 #31
Those devices are required for cars jberryhill Apr 2016 #35
Yeahhh...but is GM liable for the criminal acts of people who steal cars? Press Virginia Apr 2016 #39
Now you've gone full circle jberryhill Apr 2016 #41
Do they sell cars without ignition keys and locks? Press Virginia Apr 2016 #42
No they don't jberryhill Apr 2016 #43
Door locks and ignition keys are current safety measures? Press Virginia Apr 2016 #44
Which gets back to the point about why people steal them in the first place jberryhill Apr 2016 #45
Nobody cares WHY. The question remains, is GM liable for the criminal misuse Press Virginia Apr 2016 #46
Sanders was totally correct on this issue. Clinton, as usual, is wrong. BillZBubb Apr 2016 #3
I agree with Bernie Sanders Joob Apr 2016 #4
Does anyone sue a car manufacturer when a drunk driver kills someone? jfern Apr 2016 #8
I can't imagine the pain and anger those parents must feel, but they would lose in court if they liberal_at_heart Apr 2016 #14
Stay classy, Hillary. frylock Apr 2016 #33
Hillary Supporters are acting like Bernie himself might as well have murdered dozens of children. phleshdef Apr 2016 #34
relatives of Sandy Hook murdered children are bashing HRC for exploiting their deceased children amborin Apr 2016 #37
Do you have any links? n/t pantsonfire Apr 2016 #47
they were amborin Apr 2016 #48
Ok, it'd be good if someone put them all in an article, to show all of their opinions matter...n/t pantsonfire Apr 2016 #49
 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
6. Yep
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:00 AM
Apr 2016

But she wasn't trying to use them as an attack until now right? It was just as a way to illegitimately bolster herself. Now it's that and an attack as she's trying to associate Bernie with the Sandy Hook tragedy itself.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
12. It was always a cheap political tactic, but this is taking it to a new level
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:05 AM
Apr 2016

As much as I have detested Hillary Clinton I did not expect something this sleazy. Bernie has passed on opportunities to pile on her about the FBI/email issue and now she pulls this. And it's a really stupid strategy that just reinforces who she is. Take a look at the responses under her tweet on this. She is getting killed.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
2. When GM has people suing it after being hit by a stolen Chevy Malibu
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:55 PM
Apr 2016

maybe we could pass a law to protect them from frivolous suits too.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
7. When GM starts making cars that don't require a key, they would
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:00 AM
Apr 2016

Let's say a car manufacturer starts selling a car that doesn't have door locks or require an ignition key.

Would you say that someone who was hit by a stolen one would not have a claim that the car was designed poorly?
 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
16. He believes Remington et al should implement
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:08 AM
Apr 2016

unproven biometric technology so that the next time a kid kills his mother and takes her gun, which he already had access too and presumably would have been indexed, he won't take his stolen gun and kill people.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
11. lets say the owner left it unlocked with the key in the ignition, which is more likely
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:04 AM
Apr 2016

Would GM be liable?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
32. GM sold it with anti-theft features which the owner didn't use
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:54 AM
Apr 2016

I did not realize that it was mandatory for guns to be sold only in combination with anti-theft devices.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
38. Yes it is different
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:00 AM
Apr 2016

You can't buy a car that lacks anti-theft features.

There is no requirement that a gun owner even have them.

You are probably not old enough to remember when hospitals would let new parents leave without proving they had a safety seat in the car.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
17. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't trolling
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:10 AM
Apr 2016

Bernie has made it clear on many occasions that the manufacturer of an improperly designed product, such as a gun with a safety lock that didn't work, should be sued. Another example would be a company that manufactured a gun in a way that they knew made it easy to retrofit into an automatic weapon in the aftermarket.

The distinction he's making is that if you make a legal product that is properly designed, it is sold through legal channels, and then somebody misuses it, then you should not be sued as the manufacturer. As he said in one of the debates, if you're going to allow somebody to be sued for making a legal product, then we should be having a different conversation - to make the product illegal.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
19. People are sued over legal products every day
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:32 AM
Apr 2016

Do you think that every product that is the subject of a successful liability suit is pulled off of the market?

Do you actually think that only "illegal" products are the subject of product liability suits?
 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
23. When those products are defective.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:41 AM
Apr 2016

You wouldn't sue GM if you were intentionally run over, by a properly functioning Malibu, driven by a car jacker

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
25. Does it matter WHY they ran you over in their stolen Malibu?
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:46 AM
Apr 2016

Surly GM must be responsible for the owner having his car stolen and your mangled body

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
30. Some steal guns to commit crimes
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:53 AM
Apr 2016

Some might even murder their mothers before stealing those guns to commit more murders

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
15. Firestone as well if the tires touched them. Any foundries that made the metal for the bumpers too.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:07 AM
Apr 2016

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
21. the intrinsic function of a vehicle is not to kill
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:35 AM
Apr 2016

Nor are vehicles explicitly protected with constitutional amendments. You've got some work to do to repeal it. Better get started.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
26. Cars have anti-theft devices
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:49 AM
Apr 2016

In fact, it won't be long until it is common for law enforcement to have the ability to disable stolen vehicles. That feature of some cars has already been used.

And that type of evolution is a feature of the system.

Today, it would be unimaginable for a car not to have locks and a key.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
28. And owners still leave their doors unlocked with the keys in the ignition
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:50 AM
Apr 2016

Sometimes people takes cars by force

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
29. So?
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:52 AM
Apr 2016

So because it is possible to steal cars in other ways, they shouldn't have locks or ignition keys.

Got it.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
35. Those devices are required for cars
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:57 AM
Apr 2016

They do not stop all car thefts, but they significantly reduce car thefts.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
41. Now you've gone full circle
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:02 AM
Apr 2016

If GM sold a car that didn't have locks and ignition keys, then hell yes they'd be held liable.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
43. No they don't
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:06 AM
Apr 2016

Because the manufacture of products takes place in an environment where failing to stay reasonably current in the state of relevant safety measures can lead to significant liability.

It is why the design of many products changes over time.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
44. Door locks and ignition keys are current safety measures?
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:08 AM
Apr 2016

here I thought they were just old anti theft features

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
45. Which gets back to the point about why people steal them in the first place
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:59 AM
Apr 2016

So, let's recap - while the purpose of s car is to transport people, and they are principally not stolen for the purpose of harming others, they nonetheless come with anti-theft features built in. In order to operate one, a license is issued to persons who have passed a test of their understanding of the laws governing their use and have demonstrated their ability and fitness to operate one.

And you'd like to make some kind of analogy here?

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
46. Nobody cares WHY. The question remains, is GM liable for the criminal misuse
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 02:09 AM
Apr 2016

of one of its manufactured vehicles should it be stolen from its rightful owner or even criminal misuse BY its rightful owner.

Car thief steals it, runs you down for the giggles. owner gets drunk, runs you down while his license is suspended because you look like someone who kicked his childhood dog




BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
3. Sanders was totally correct on this issue. Clinton, as usual, is wrong.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:56 PM
Apr 2016

How can you hold a manufacturer liable for what someone else does with a legal product that the public has a right to purchase?

Sanders has the right approach, we need strong gun control laws. We need better screening of gun purchasers.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
8. Does anyone sue a car manufacturer when a drunk driver kills someone?
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:00 AM
Apr 2016

And that's a product that isn't intended to be used to kill.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
14. I can't imagine the pain and anger those parents must feel, but they would lose in court if they
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:06 AM
Apr 2016

sued the gun manufacturers. The fact that Hillary is using this literally a day after her staff said she would disqualify and destroy Bernie's campaign shows her true intentions.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
34. Hillary Supporters are acting like Bernie himself might as well have murdered dozens of children.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:56 AM
Apr 2016

Thats pretty fucked up guys. Knock it off.

amborin

(16,631 posts)
37. relatives of Sandy Hook murdered children are bashing HRC for exploiting their deceased children
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:57 AM
Apr 2016

it is unspeakably cruel, callous, sociopathic to politically exploit this tragedy the way Hillary is doing. She has not the slightest bit of empathy or decency. What a brutally cold, indecent, horrible thing to do; she is making these poor parents suffer all the more, for her own selfish and sociopathic political gain

 

pantsonfire

(1,306 posts)
49. Ok, it'd be good if someone put them all in an article, to show all of their opinions matter...n/t
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 03:41 AM
Apr 2016
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Shame on you, @BernieSand...