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Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:33 AM

The DU Hillary people have finally convinced me

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Bobbie Jo (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

I may just sit out this election, first in my long life.
We may need a Trump Presidency before the majority of Americans wake up and throw out all the bums that have put us where we find ourselves. Maybe it does have to get really dark before the light.
We will not survive by doing the same things over and over again.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 156 replies Author Time Post
Reply The DU Hillary people have finally convinced me (Original post)
randr Apr 2016 OP
CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #1
Trenzalore Apr 2016 #6
DrDan Apr 2016 #21
artislife Apr 2016 #65
DrDan Apr 2016 #66
artislife Apr 2016 #69
DrDan Apr 2016 #78
artislife Apr 2016 #87
DrDan Apr 2016 #91
Bettie Apr 2016 #121
DrDan Apr 2016 #130
Ed Suspicious Apr 2016 #137
DrDan Apr 2016 #138
Buddyblazon Apr 2016 #142
DrDan Apr 2016 #144
Buddyblazon Apr 2016 #148
RKP5637 Apr 2016 #133
DrDan Apr 2016 #136
Bettie Apr 2016 #139
DrDan Apr 2016 #140
RKP5637 Apr 2016 #145
DrDan Apr 2016 #146
pangaia Apr 2016 #129
Broward Apr 2016 #15
Trenzalore Apr 2016 #24
Broward Apr 2016 #36
revbones Apr 2016 #27
TM99 Apr 2016 #96
Seeinghope Apr 2016 #43
Juicy_Bellows Apr 2016 #103
randr Apr 2016 #112
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #119
Chezboo Apr 2016 #113
CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #114
pangaia Apr 2016 #131
DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #2
ViseGrip Apr 2016 #3
MineralMan Apr 2016 #4
FarPoint Apr 2016 #5
CorporatistNation Apr 2016 #17
pangaia Apr 2016 #135
One of the 99 Apr 2016 #7
timmymoff Apr 2016 #31
virgogal Apr 2016 #67
bvf Apr 2016 #44
cwydro Apr 2016 #126
redstateblues Apr 2016 #153
Fumesucker Apr 2016 #8
JudyM Apr 2016 #9
Trenzalore Apr 2016 #13
Fumesucker Apr 2016 #20
Trenzalore Apr 2016 #26
Fumesucker Apr 2016 #32
Marr Apr 2016 #42
KPN Apr 2016 #47
woolldog Apr 2016 #30
Fumesucker Apr 2016 #35
randome Apr 2016 #10
daleanime Apr 2016 #70
arcane1 Apr 2016 #74
randome Apr 2016 #79
daleanime Apr 2016 #83
randome Apr 2016 #92
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #120
JoePhilly Apr 2016 #11
Dem2 Apr 2016 #12
oasis Apr 2016 #14
artislife Apr 2016 #68
oasis Apr 2016 #73
Skid Rogue Apr 2016 #16
randome Apr 2016 #18
1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #59
grossproffit Apr 2016 #116
Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #39
timmymoff Apr 2016 #53
Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #19
KPN Apr 2016 #49
zappaman Apr 2016 #22
SFnomad Apr 2016 #23
KPN Apr 2016 #51
SFnomad Apr 2016 #60
KPN Apr 2016 #71
SFnomad Apr 2016 #72
KPN Apr 2016 #86
SFnomad Apr 2016 #89
KPN Apr 2016 #100
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #124
Codeine Apr 2016 #25
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #98
Codeine Apr 2016 #106
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #108
Codeine Apr 2016 #109
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #111
LisaM Apr 2016 #28
Native Apr 2016 #110
Zambero Apr 2016 #29
KPN Apr 2016 #56
tabasco Apr 2016 #33
Loudestlib Apr 2016 #34
Cali_Democrat Apr 2016 #84
LineLineLineReply .
Loudestlib Apr 2016 #90
Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #37
TCJ70 Apr 2016 #38
KPN Apr 2016 #58
creeksneakers2 Apr 2016 #40
KPN Apr 2016 #61
BainsBane Apr 2016 #41
randome Apr 2016 #48
Agschmid Apr 2016 #45
handmade34 Apr 2016 #46
DookDook Apr 2016 #50
KPN Apr 2016 #62
giftedgirl77 Apr 2016 #52
Lil Missy Apr 2016 #54
Umbral18 Apr 2016 #55
TheFarseer Apr 2016 #104
katmondoo Apr 2016 #57
Beacool Apr 2016 #63
blm Apr 2016 #64
stone space Apr 2016 #75
In_The_Wind Apr 2016 #150
The River Apr 2016 #76
Juicy_Bellows Apr 2016 #105
Hoyt Apr 2016 #77
Android3.14 Apr 2016 #80
JCanete Apr 2016 #81
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #123
Phlem Apr 2016 #82
Sheepshank Apr 2016 #85
Tarc Apr 2016 #88
lostnfound Apr 2016 #93
JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2016 #94
one_voice Apr 2016 #95
stillwaiting Apr 2016 #115
anigbrowl Apr 2016 #97
seabeyond Apr 2016 #99
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #141
seabeyond Apr 2016 #147
Yurovsky Apr 2016 #101
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #122
Rosa Luxemburg Apr 2016 #102
IamMab Apr 2016 #107
Vinca Apr 2016 #117
djean111 Apr 2016 #151
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #118
Attorney in Texas Apr 2016 #125
Trust Buster Apr 2016 #127
RKP5637 Apr 2016 #128
salinsky Apr 2016 #132
Renew Deal Apr 2016 #134
upaloopa Apr 2016 #143
DanTex Apr 2016 #149
B Calm Apr 2016 #152
redstateblues Apr 2016 #154
HERVEPA Apr 2016 #155
Bobbie Jo Apr 2016 #156

Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:35 AM

1. There's that immoral argument again...

 

... that sentencing people to four or eight years of massive increases in suffering is justifiable, because of the 'hope' of something better coming of it.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:54 AM

6. I've only been on here for a month

However DU in GDP primaries pretty much has 50 threads with every talking point imaginable against Hillary Clinton and 10 pro-Hillary threads and the Sanders supporters are upset that Hillary supporters are mean.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:21 PM

21. and it was like that (or worse) in the previous months

Hillary-hate is rampant

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Response to DrDan (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:24 PM

65. But well founded. nt

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #65)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:26 PM

66. in the fertile minds of some

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Response to DrDan (Reply #66)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:29 PM

69. In the clear eyes of many

 

Take a look at the blood on her hands, the money to her "foundation" and the deals she has made at the expense of the planet.

She is not a good choice.


At all.

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Response to artislife (Reply #69)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:15 PM

78. what does that say about her opponents(s) - considering her huge lead in vote counts

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Response to DrDan (Reply #78)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:50 PM

87. Cloudy vision, unwillingness to see.

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #87)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:00 PM

91. how elitist of you

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Response to artislife (Reply #87)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:22 AM

121. Name recognition

Pure and simple.

People who don't consume a lot of news see "Clinton" and vote for the name they recognize.

Same on the other side with Trump.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #121)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:46 AM

130. funny how trump crushed bush - who certainly has bigger name recognition

and these simple folk you mention are not the ones to show up at primaries

but you knew that

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Response to DrDan (Reply #130)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:52 AM

137. You think Trump is less recognizable than Jeb Bush?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #137)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:52 AM

138. yes - less than the bush name

even cruz drew more votes than bush - and kasich

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Response to DrDan (Reply #138)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:58 AM

142. You're wrong...

 

Trump name is currently bigger than Bush. How many TV shows is Trump currently on or been on in the last few years?

You may want it to be different, Dan, but it's not.

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Response to Buddyblazon (Reply #142)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:02 AM

144. why would I care one way or another - explain cruz and kasich clobbering bush

and no way trump's name is bigger than the bush name here in Florida where I live

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Response to DrDan (Reply #144)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:13 AM

148. That's your shithole state...

 

Nobody outside of Florida gives two shits about Florida. I'm talking about the entire country.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #121)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:48 AM

133. Exactly! They are brand names. So many people lack critical thinking in the US and just have

reflexive thought processes and go for the brand names. Quite sad.


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #133)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:50 AM

136. they certainly rejected bush . . .

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Response to DrDan (Reply #136)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:53 AM

139. Trump is flashy and

frankly, a bigger name.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #139)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:55 AM

140. then explain cruz and kasich crushing bush

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Response to DrDan (Reply #136)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:03 AM

145. Excellent point! Jeb was pathetic. I think he got pushed into that. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #145)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:09 AM

146. I think so also - I think he knew it was not a good time for him

bad memories of his brother are still strong

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Response to DrDan (Reply #78)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:43 AM

129. She has a huge lead because people do not see, in my view.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:18 PM

15. Are you supporting Hillary in the primary?

If so, you're contributing to the ongoing suffering and things getting worse for most Americans.

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Response to Broward (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:25 PM

24. Wasn't the point of this post how awful Hillary Supporters are to Bernie Sanders supporters

Thank you for proving it is the exact opposite.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #24)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:34 PM

36. No, may be that was the point of your post.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:27 PM

27. It's weird how Hillary followers say that

 

Bernie can't get anything done. Hillary can only get small things done, but Trump will destroy the world with everything he's able to get done.

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Response to revbones (Reply #27)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:14 PM

96. I am glad someone else noticed that.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:49 PM

43. I don't know. Ethics don't seem important to Hillary Clinton supporters

 

The Climton Foundation received Billions of dollars in donations from countries while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was approving arms contracts to those same countries. You don't see a problem with that? Well then how about the donations from Russia while Russia was scoring a great deal of getting uranium from the United States while Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State?

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Response to Seeinghope (Reply #43)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:47 PM

103. Yep.

It doesn't seem to bother them. How? I cannot fathom.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:13 PM

112. That is exactly what scares me about Hillary

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Response to randr (Reply #112)


Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:38 PM

113. My take is if you're voting for Hillary that's exactly what you're voting for

unless there is some part of neoliberalism that's fuzzy for her supporters. Hillary may win office by talking left, but once in the WH she will readily sacrifice the party's base to stay true to the neoliberal plan.

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Response to Chezboo (Reply #113)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:00 PM

114. It's like this.

 

For either Democrat, the status quo is the bare minimum, and we'll be trying to move forward. If a Republican gets elected, the status quo is the pipe dream best case scenario. If the other candidate's voters can't see the difference, I feel sorry for them.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #114)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:47 AM

131. Move forward..where? trade deals, disaster capitalism on an even grander scale?

No thanks.
We do not need to move forward in the same direction.
We need to change directions.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:35 AM

2. Good luck on your journey

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:50 AM

3. She won't be taking that journey alone...it's the Hillary people who want to be alone.

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:50 AM

4. Well, OK, then...

Good luck with that...

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:53 AM

5. I'm sticking with my tradition and history..

I will vote for Hillary Clinton as the Democratic Nominee. Sanders, well...I fail to see him as a Democrat. He, himself does not desire to work with the Democratic Party, just ride the bus.So, I can not see a vote in my future for Sanders unless I move to Vermont.

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:19 PM

17. Many More Feel Likewise About Hillary... Rest Assured... Cannot Stomach Her Corporatist Nature!

#ShesWithWallStreet



If Hillary cared about the General Election, she would SUSPEND HER CAMPAIGN!

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:49 AM

135. Tradition and history-- THAT is the problem.

Disaster Capitalism run amok, oligarchy completed, signed and sealed.
Human beings sacrificed to the greed a few.

THAT is your tradition and history.

No thanks.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:56 AM

7. Unfortunately

That's what many said when Reagan became President and when Bush became President in 2000.

One thing history has shown is that when the right wing wins elections it moves the country further to the right and Democratic candidates as well.

This is not a country that embraces revolution, but rather evolution.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:29 PM

31. How in the hell could the current democratic party

 

get moved more towards the right? Our biggest losing strategy has been moving to the right. We have a near equal division in our party that the media is just recently reporting. We are far better off shifting back to the left then we are staying in this centrist at best position. I have no numbers on this but would guess that as we continue to move right in hopes of gaining crossover votes, we lose votes on the other end by people dropping out and being fed up with the same stuff happening regardless of who you choose. In math some of you so often choose to shout about, gaining 3-5% on the right , while losing 6-8 % on the left is a losing strategy. We need to stop being the "me too" candidates and more like the bold candidates. Status quo isn't bold nor inspiring.

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Response to timmymoff (Reply #31)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:26 PM

67. JFK was practically a conservative.

 

The party has swung more to the left.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:50 PM

44. You forgot to include Bill Clinton.

 

He did a pretty fine job of dragging the country rightward as well. Think, "the era of big government is over." Think mass incarceration. Shit, just think.

And he managed to sully the Oval Office like no other "Democrat" in modern times. Think about that, too.

Think about why Gore had to keep him at arm's length during the 2000 campaign. Had it not been for Clinton's astounding ratings on untrustworthiness and dishonesty, he might have made it more difficult for Bush to steal that election.

Clinton belongs right up there with Reagan and both Bushes, and I don't want him within a fucking mile of the White House as anything but a perpetually horny tourist, ever again.

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Response to bvf (Reply #44)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:42 AM

126. Amazing to see the hate towards Bill Clinton on DU.

And to compare him to Reagan and the Bushes.

Never thought I'd see the day.

I had no idea so many "Dems" hated Bill Clinton.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #126)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:36 AM

153. The Obama hatred is right there under the surface on DU as well

when he says something good about HRC

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:57 AM

8. Once you see what's happening it's impossible to unsee it

This is all positioning for casting the blame when Hillary loses the general.

They want you to be discouraged and disgusted, that's why they make themselves so odious.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #8)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:06 PM

9. ??

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #8)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:15 PM

13. That is some incredible planning

I assumed if Hillary loses it would be 1 million I told you so all over the internet but the secret plot to win the primary and lose the general election to make Bernie look bad makes sense now

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #13)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:21 PM

20. Contingency planning, I used to do it

You game out every scenario to the best of your ability and plan your contingency strategies accordingly.

Clausewitz said that war is just an extension of politics by other means and 90% of war is planning for contingencies.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #20)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:27 PM

26. I don't see the far left being marginalized by a Hillary loss

As evidenced on what is happening on the other side this primary I envision them being emboldened.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #26)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:31 PM

32. The selecting and demonization of a scapegoat is of utmost importance in political planning

Think Nader, never mind Gore couldn't win his home state, his Droopy Dawg VP pick who wound up at the RNC promoting John McCain and the corrupt SCOTUS, focus on Nader....


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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #26)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:42 PM

42. They've been doing that for literally decades now.

 

Whenever a conservative Democrat loses, the left is blamed-- it doesn't matter if the data supports the claim or not. They're still arguing that it was the left that cost the party so heavily in 2012, for instance, even though all the data shows that it was their precious 'moderates' who didn't show up.

So when they lose, the script is, "See? We can't depend on the left-- we must move rightward".

When they win, the script is, "See? Our 'pro-business' approach is popular. We must continue moving rightward".

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Response to Marr (Reply #42)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:57 PM

47. Sadly true.

Even sadder -- the notion "conservative Democrat". Ought to be an oxymoron, but isn't.

We true progressives need to take back the Democratic Party or leave it apparently.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #20)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:29 PM

30. You've been sucking too many fumes.

 

Lay off for a week or two.

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Response to woolldog (Reply #30)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:32 PM

35. I love you too..

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:13 PM

10. My daughters don't need a Trump Presidency, thank you. You're selfish and whiny.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:30 PM

70. That's not much of an agruement....

for a Hillary presidency.

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Response to daleanime (Reply #70)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:05 PM

74. "Fear of Trump" is the best thing Clinton has going for her.

 

And since Trump will never be the nominee, it's an empty threat.

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Response to daleanime (Reply #70)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:18 PM

79. It wasn't intended to be. It was in response to OP's hoping that Trump wins.

 

Only a selfish idiot roots for others to suffer.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #79)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:36 PM

83. What does that say about those....

who look to profit from the death of others?

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Response to daleanime (Reply #83)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:04 PM

92. Clinton is no more looking to profit from death than Sanders is with his support of the F-35.

 

Which profited Vermont, by the way. Still, I don't hold that against him. Why can't you try to see the larger picture, too?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to daleanime (Reply #70)


Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:14 PM

11. "We may need a Trump Presidency" ... um, fuck that!

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:15 PM

12. Awwww, looks like somebody needs their fah fah

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:16 PM

14. Democrats will strive to avoid a re-Scaliafied Supreme Court.

If Republicans have their way, SCOTUS will become an ultra right institution for the next 20 years.

It'll be dark alright.

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Response to oasis (Reply #14)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:28 PM

68. Why isn't the position filled already?

 

Do you think they will fill it if a Dem gets in? There is no legal recourse to not filling it. They may drown the court in the bathtub like they wanted to do the government.

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Response to artislife (Reply #68)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:39 PM

73. During the next 4 years, at least 3 justice seats will need to be filled.

How long do you expect the American public to tolerate the senate's misbehavior?

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:19 PM

16. randr,

This is a completely not snarky question.

Are there any historical examples of that tactic actually working?

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Response to Skid Rogue (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:20 PM

18. It's not even a tactic. It's a justification for laziness.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #18)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:15 PM

59. It's not laziness ...

 

Those in the Bernie or Bust clan are actively recruiting.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #59)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:12 AM

116. And using this forum to openly do so.

It's sickening.

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Response to Skid Rogue (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:38 PM

39. YES. When Nader's supporters cost Gore the 2000 election,

the Democratic Party decided to run the extreme leftist John Kerry in 2004.

Didn't they?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #39)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:10 PM

53. By Al Gore

 

running as the "me too" candidate, along with his poor performances, managed to have around 250,000 democrats vote for Bush. Often when you need to look for blame the mirror is the first place. This is what we Sander's supporters are stating. Being closer to them alienates more than you gain on the right.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:20 PM

19. The Democratic Party will desperately strive to carry on without your participation...

 

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:04 PM

49. Key phrase: "desperately strive".

Frankly, I don't think Hillary can win the GE, but admit I'm biased against her. If she does, I believe she will be a one term President because she will have moved significantly right from what she campaigned on -- that's what I expect based on past record. The excuse that "compromise is the only way she could make progress on important issues" doesn't hold water with Bernie supporters now and won't then. Those who supported her in 2016, largely because of feeling held hostage by SCOTUS being at risk, will abandon her in 2020. And the DNC will "desperately strive" on.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:22 PM

22. "We may need a Trump presidency"

No, we don't.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:22 PM

23. The "If I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home argument" ...

 

Most of us outgrew that by the time we left grade school.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:10 PM

51. Characterize it as that if you want, but its a false narrative.

People will vote for what they think is best for the country. To many of us, a Democratic Party that is controlled unrelentingly by Third Wayers (read: sold out or never were Ds) is not what is best for the nation. Get over it!

Third Wayers like to juxtapose progressive idealism with centrist realism. Berners' disdain for today's Democratic establishment is just another reality you all will have to contend with. Fair enough?

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Response to KPN (Reply #51)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:16 PM

60. It's hardly a false narrative ... it's reality

 

And reality is something the Sanders supports have a problem grasping.

From the OP:

I may just sit out this election, first in my long life.
We may need a Trump Presidency before the majority of Americans wake up ...


What they've just said there is ... if Sanders isn't the nominee, I'm going to take my ball (vote) and stay home. Doesn't matter what the consequences are of that childish temper tantrum that they are having.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #60)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:30 PM

71. I guess you didn't read my post

or didn't comprehend it. Probably the latter. Some may stay home, but many will seek another option, not just in 2016, but 2020 as well and beyond.

The Democratic Party is either going to start aggressively representing and standing up effectively for the working class, or not and lose its base. That's reality.

The argument: "accept this because its the best we can do" is finally being rejected by millions upon millions because that approach has failed for three-plus decades. Also reality.

Do you really think calling this perspective (which those who hold it do so with dead seriousness) a "childish temper tantrum" will achieve your end? You won't influence us with guilt trips when what inspires us is our conscience in the first place.

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Response to KPN (Reply #71)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:38 PM

72. I read your post ... I was talking about the OP

 

but you didn't want to stick with that because it proves what I'm saying. And I'm still talking about the OP.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:48 PM

86. Me too. You are talking about it

but discounting if not ignoring the reality.

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Response to KPN (Reply #86)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:53 PM

89. I'm talking about the OP and what this person is doing

 

You're creating strawmen to prove I'm wrong ... which shows how disingenuous you are.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #89)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:30 PM

100. No. I'm simply pointing out that people can

and will do what their conscience and conviction tells them. In this particular case, some Berners may vote for Hillary despite their misgivings, some may vote for someone else because of their misgivings, and some may choose not to support any of the candidates with their vote (sit it out) also because of their misgivings. All are legitimate. Yet you characterized it as not recognizing reality but instead behaving childishly by throwing a temper tantrum.

Your characterization is off base and ignores "reality". That is not a strawman. You are just flat out off base.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:31 AM

124. Emotional immaturity explains the attraction to Trump nt

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:25 PM

25. That's some Trump-humping bullshit right there.

Sitting out elections is an absurd reaction to snarky message board invective. Anonymous people in their jammies sipping coffee and being obnoxious to each other about Popes and emails and buses and Pinocchios should have zero impact on your real life, fresh air, sunshine, walkin' around activities.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #25)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:18 PM

98. opting out of an election is not trump humping

and neither is saying we have to hit rock bottom before we climb back up.

like it or not, there are only two candidates running who are willing to drain the swamp...trump and sanders.

and one of them will be president.

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #98)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:54 PM

106. No, neither of those men will be President.

Get real comfortable with the idea of saying "Madame President."

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Response to Codeine (Reply #106)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:56 PM

108. gonna be hard to govern as a pardoned criminal

its not gonna happen. her time has come and gone

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #108)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:57 PM

109. Christ, you guys are just recycling Free Republic posts from 1997 now. nt

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Response to Codeine (Reply #109)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:00 PM

111. did you see the president on fox?

he tacitly admitted she committed a crime of negligence. but she didn't MEAN to. he had the opportunity to come out forcefully in defense of her on a network which was listening with both ears. he didn't do that. he said she didn't INTEND to jeapodarize ntl security. he did not say she DID NOT jeapordize natl security.

wishing it away isn't goin to make it so.....

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:28 PM

28. Ummm....I thought pro-Trump posts weren't allowed?

This seems to be skirting a pretty fine line.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #28)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:58 PM

110. Sounds like the line was crossed to me!

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:28 PM

29. Surviving a Trump (or Cruz) presidency is the larger issue

Sorry, not an option.

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Response to Zambero (Reply #29)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:12 PM

56. Not to worry.

The GOP is going to run Paul Ryan.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:31 PM

33. Sure, you wouldn't suffer from a Trump presidency, but millions would.

 

Why do you think something good would result from a national meltdown?

Stupid post, stupid idea, and this post should be deleted for its imbecility.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:32 PM

34. Are you a white male?

I've been told she doesn't need your vote.

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Response to Loudestlib (Reply #34)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:38 PM

84. Link?

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:36 PM

37. You need a considerable amount of privilege

to have the luxury of being able to take that position.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:37 PM

38. They've based their entire argument on "beat Trump"...

...but I don't think Trump will be the Republican nominee. It's looking less like he'll have enough delegates to wrap it up. At that point it's open season and he's toxic enough that they go with Kasich or some other more palatable (for Republicans) option. At that point she's in BIG trouble...and all those Hillary supporters are going to look pretty foolish.

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #38)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:14 PM

58. Yup.

Paul Ryan's looking like the horse to beat as this point I think.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:39 PM

40. The fate of the nation

shouldn't be decided by the manners of people on the Internet. They are poor all around.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #40)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:16 PM

61. No, and it shouldn't be determined by the DNC circumventing basic

democratic principles either.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:39 PM

41. That will sure show the women, people of color, and

Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

LGBT Americans what they get for refusing to vote as told. Strip away their rights and you can finally have the America you've dreamed of. Who cares about democracy anyway? People think they have a right to vote as they see fit and refuse to understand they are supposed to obey the self entitled.

Generations of presidents under a capitalist economy, and it only becomes problem when we have two Democrats, an African American followed by what may be the first woman president in US History. Yep, got to tear that "establishment" down and go back to the days when America was great, when people like us knew to stay in our place.

Cut the bullshit. The dark is the goal. People wish for a Trump presidency because that is the America they want.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #41)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:03 PM

48. That's okay. Those people you mention? They probably all live in the South.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:51 PM

45. ...



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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:54 PM

46. your sentiment

is one spoken by a voice of privilege... I have never missed a vote in my long lifetime and would never be controlled by someone's bad behavior... right now the concern is not so much which Democrat wins the White House, it is how many more Democrats/progressives we can put in local/state/federal offices and how long we (people understanding need for change/progress) will commit to helping that journey towards positive change... not voting is not an option if you care, if you are progressive, if you are moral, if you are honest...

I am a "DU Hillary" person who loves Bernie and his ideals but believes that Hillary Clinton is the best person for President right now... and I am a "DU Hillary" person who will continue the fight towards progressive change and not give up if my chosen candidate doesn't win... we all should be in this for the long haul... "one person a revolution does not make" it takes "the people" working long and hard and not giving up... we vote, we write, we make phone calls, we protest, we educate, we boycott, we refuse to cooperate with corruption, we help each other, we embrace each other, we think critically...

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:06 PM

50. Illegitimi non carborundum

Vote for any progressives that are on the ballot.

I wouldn't want to support any third-way candidates either.

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Response to DookDook (Reply #50)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:18 PM

62. +1!

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:10 PM

52. By Flecia.

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:10 PM

54. Okay bye. n/t

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:10 PM

55. The thing is, if she wins she's the savior of the Republican Party...

They get 4 more years to beat on her, and Democrats in general, and they have 4 years to fix the horrendous mess they've made of their party. It's a lose-lose situation.

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Response to Umbral18 (Reply #55)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:49 PM

104. Agree completely

Rush Limbaugh is saved. The only losers for Republicans are bible humpers oh and rank and file with a job that can get outsourced/insourced. The big money people are fine with her AND conventional wisdom says the republican is even more likely to win the longer they are out of the White House.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:14 PM

57. To vote for Hillary if she is the nominee

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:22 PM

63. Asinine argument and selfish to boot.

First of all, there's no one more vicious on this site that some of Sanders' supporters. This is mostly an anti-Hillary board. Yet, most of us wouldn't be so stupid as to sit out this election if Sanders became the nominee. I would vote for a turnip if it prevented Trump from becoming president.



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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:23 PM

64. Supreme Court is more powerful than any WH. It will only go in 1 of 2 directions...

and many millions of people are dependent on their future rulings.

If you are in a safe blue state or permanent red state, your not voting won't matter - in swing states EVERY SINGLE VOTE MATTERS, and there is no luxury for us to indulge the personal.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:07 PM

75. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: You alerted on a post which was already alerted

 

On Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:06 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

The DU Hillary people have finally convinced me
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511697674

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

> We may need a Trump Presidency

Advocate for a Trump Presidency on another site, not on DU.

Please hide.

JURY RESULTS

Someone else already alerted on this post before you alerted on it, and only the first alert was sent to a Jury. A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of the post on Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:24 AM, and voted 2-5 to keep IT. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Administrators who review all alerts.

Thank you.

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Response to stone space (Reply #75)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:22 AM

150. Who knew ... trump humpers are everywhere ...




As for me? I'm voting for the Democrat.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:07 PM

76. Like the Drinker Who Has To End Up

in the gutter, like the gambler who has to go bankrupt or
the junkie who's forced into rehab, this country doesn't seem
to be able to respond to anything but a full blown crisis before
it is willing to change.
Frankenstein food, lead filled water, polluted air, lack of healthcare.
The list goes on and on. Lady Liberty is being raped in the kitchen
but we won't get off the couch to help because "American Idol" is
on the idiot box. So be it.
I've "got mine" so I shouldn't care, but I do. I don't care about race, gender,
age or religion, I care about principles, honesty and character. If you care more
about breaking a glass ceiling than climate change, if you care more
about name recognition than income inequality, If you care more
about "Party" than principle, I won't help you in November.

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Response to The River (Reply #76)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:51 PM

105. Excellent post!

I was thinking of something similar but you've said it better than I could have.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:11 PM

77. Quite naive, a Trump or Cruz presidency will make it very difficult to do that for decades.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:19 PM

80. It has been sad to watch

 

Too many are soul sick people who seem to take pleasure in cheering for the suppression of the vote and keeping common folks under the heel of the oligarchs, but this may be a reflection of the country. They are the inverse of Trump supporters, racist in their own way and willing to believe someone who plays on their biases rather than a candidate who advocates for true ethical and enlightened governance. It is the unfortunate consequence of karma that we will get the leader we deserve. It may be that we have to become slaves once again in order to relearn that harsh lesson too many Hillary supporters seem to have abandoned.

Your post shows the real danger of a Clinton candidacy, which could spawn a national sense of betrayal that would harm the country for decades.

I empathize with your sense of wanting to sit the election out, but I urge you to vote anyway. Cynicism is a hollow way to cope.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:29 PM

81. Totally legitimate position.

 


That doesn't mean the judgement is correct, but it doesn't deserve the vitriol you're getting. One can arrive at this position with honest and thought-out reasoning, the same as one could arrive at the need to vote for the lesser short-term evil with the same. People on both sides of this argument could and should have a respectful dialogue, recognizing that there are profound voices in both camps.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #81)


Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:34 PM

82. It's not going to get better until we ALL feel the same pain.

I firmly believe that. I'm not voting for Trump but I still agree with your assessment. I was just talking with a Hillary supporter about his post. In it he complains about the Independent vote and "why ?" they should get to vote because it ruins "His" life.

Ughh.

Same reason I can't stand Hillary, it's all about me, myself, and I. When I win as opposed to when we win.

Don't worry, the TPP will go along way towards ruining American lives, just be patient.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:39 PM

85. There's no accounting for idiocy cloaked in a self proclaimed noble act.

 

Thanks for the real life example.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:52 PM

88. Bye Felicia

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:05 PM

93. Who is likely to be more of a hawk, I wonder?

Trump or Hillary?
Trump is crazy and/or all over the map.
Hillary seems to have a certain ideology.

Please note: I am NOT expressing any support for that disgusting Neanderthal con man.
Just wondering how much of a hawk would he prove to be?

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:05 PM

94. My state has a Repub governor, Repub house, Repub senate.

It will take decades (if ever) to undo the damage those idiots have caused.

So, do what feels good to you, but I can't respect your position.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:05 PM

95. I've seen this said many times...

by Bernie supporters.

I have a question. Supposing Bernie gets the nomination. Do you think he'll win in the GE if the Hillary people say eff that I'm not voting for him? Can he win without their votes?

An equivalent Hillary or bust movement?

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Response to one_voice (Reply #95)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:01 AM

115. Bernie gets strong support from independents. Hillary does not.

Also, it seems most HRC supporters like Bernie. The same is not true in reverse.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:17 PM

97. A powerful, logical argument

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:19 PM

99. Ya throwing women's and girl's lives under the bus to literally be run over, for your revolution is

 

the smart answer.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #99)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:57 AM

141. No such thing as Bernie Bros, nope nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #141)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:10 AM

147. Truly... Privileged at the least. Nt

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:37 PM

101. I find it laughable that HRC supporters would call you "selfish"...

when HRC may be the most greedy, selfish, and pro-corporate candidates to ever run as a Democrat. Does she really need HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars at her disposal? Seriously? She couldn't live off combined Federal pensions of over $600k per year? Did she really need to take all that Wall Street cash, when Bernie has shown Democrats will get out their checkbook a to support a true progressive?

Please...

And for the record, Trump is a racist asshole, but I don't think he wants to outlaw abortion. JMHO. I think the bigger concern might be him running his mouth and starting a war unintentionally, which isn't any worse than HRC starting one on purpose (which she most likely will if past behavior is any clue).

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Response to Yurovsky (Reply #101)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:22 AM

122. So you prefer Trump to Hillary like the OP? nt

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:43 PM

102. There will not be an Earth if Trump is elected

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Response to randr (Original post)

Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:55 PM

107. Buh-bye, Susan! Have fun driving over the cliff again!

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:13 AM

117. To the OP, I'd say look at the big picture.

DU was exactly the same way in 2008. The Hillary people were just as nasty and when she started tanking they all sounded like you. In the end, most voted for Obama. You can't take the crap on this site too seriously. Think of the future of things like abortion rights if Ted Cruz or Donald Trump appoints the next 3 Supreme Court justices. I also sometimes think people deserve what they get when they vote or don't vote and "maybe that will wake them up." But, in truth, there are people out there far more powerless than we are who need some protection. People die in GOP-led states where Medicaid hasn't been expanded. People are going hungry because food stamps are being cut. We can't let our wounded feelings rule our heads.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #117)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:27 AM

151. Hillary has already expressed an interest in adding limitations to abortion rights.

 

She, IMO, is not a Democrat, as I understand being a Democrat. I don't think I would like her SCOTUS appointments, either, or her foreign policy, or her Third Way attack on safety nets. This is no longer just a choice between two fairly similar Democrats.

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Response to randr (Original post)


Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:38 AM

125. If Jill Stein herself were running Hillary's campaign herself, she could not set herself up better.

At the beginning of the race, 80 percent of the Democrats I knew were Sanders supporters who intended to vote for the nominee in November no matter who won.

Now, 90 percent are Sanders supporters and I'm in the minority who still plan to vote for our nominee no matter who it is. Jill Stein will set records if Hillary wins.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:42 AM

127. At least vote for Democrats down ticket or quit whining about your revolution.

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:43 AM

128. Sometimes things have to get really really bad before people finally wake up and quit being robots.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:48 AM

132. Trump humping thread gets 38 recs on DU ...

... and Jesus wept.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:49 AM

134. You'll show them

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:58 AM

143. Nobody makes you do anything. You own this. Don't blame Hillary supporters

If Trump is elected because people didn't vote it is on them no one else

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:22 AM

149. Another pro-Trump post on DU.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:29 AM

152. I'm not at that point yet.

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:39 AM

154. Another childish tantrum from a Bernie or Buster

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:41 AM

155. Stupid logic (actually lack of logic)

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:47 AM

156. Locking

Statement of Purpose

A forum for general discussion of the Democratic presidential primaries. Disruptive meta-discussion is forbidden.

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