Bernie and Hillary supporters are on the same team

[realmirage]

I hope you all understand that in November. If Republicans win, it's how many more decades of a conservative Supreme Court? Loss of chances to regain control of Congress? Loss of the White House? What else will we lose when Republicans control it all? I don't think many of you realize all the things we will lose as a result of that. Think of the laws that will pass, the things we enjoy now that will be gone.

Don't lose yourselves in the madness

[Kittycat]

1. Explain madness to me

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/13/hillary_clinton_rakes_in_verizon_cash_while_bernie_sanders_supports_companys_striking_workers/

[realmirage]

2. You don't really know what will happen if Republicans win do you?

Read my entire post

[The Old Lie]

3. I do not view Clinton as a Democrat.

I view Clinton as a Third Way corporate candidate.

That is all.

[realmirage]

7. Bernie is only recently a democrat

Hillary is lifelong. We can go tit for tat like some of the other morons here, or we can be grown ups and vote for the democrat no matter who it is because we understand what is at stake

[noretreatnosurrender]

18. Hi Newbie

59 year old Democrat here. Your condescending lecture to Bernie Sanders supporters is hardly what grown ups do to encourage people to vote for a Democrat in the General. Everyone knows that a boneheaded move like yours is the opposite of what a grown up would do. But you knew that too, didn't you? I guess that's why you did it.

[realmirage]

47. I'm not lecturing, Bernie supporters are offering to destroy the democratic party

and I am trying to explain how that will hurt the country. Those that respond the way some here have aren't going to have their minds changed anyway. It's the sort-of rational ones that this post is intended for. But that's more explanation than you really deserved after swooping in here like a fake guru to explain others' shortcomings. Be happy, and take care.

[noretreatnosurrender]

49. Don't Need An Explanation

We all know what you're doing.

[randome]

90. See? When someone DOES speak respectfully to you, you discount them.

You had an opportunity there for a real conversation and you instead withdrew into grumpiness. The point that was made is valid -Clinton, no matter what you think of her, will be a thousand times better than the thousand days of darkness we will all suffer if Republicans get control of another branch of government.

It's the truth. It's not some scheme to defraud you or to trick you. The truth.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[noretreatnosurrender]

98. Yeah Nothing Says Grumpy

like a chuckling smiley face. I think you might need a little bit more practice at this.

[timmymoff]

100. Democratic party did it's damndest to destoy itself and alienate people

with their corporate whoredom. Hard to fight the people writing checks for you.

[The Old Lie]

48. Lifelong. Let me debunk that for you. She was a Goldwater Girl.

Even has similar logos!

[realmirage]

86. yes, 4 years 1964-68

but we really don't need to split that hair do we

[The Old Lie]

91. You said lifelong.

You were merely corrected with *gasp* facts! Now, as a repayment for the error, I suggest spending 30 minutes at http://www.feelthebern.org and read everything.

[realmirage]

119. That is the

sort of aggression and lack of humor over a split hair that defeats your own cause. And I already researched Bernie, but thanks

[timmymoff]

85. We aren't interested in voting for a lifelong dem like Hillary

You guys do not understand she is a big part of a long standing problem. The democrats have went so far right since 1988 that they lost millions of voters due to apathy. Sanders is bringing them out again, but you will lose them just as easy, with this center-right strategy. I'm interested in voting for a liberal that will fight, not a moderate who will get things done (by selling us out to her corporate owners), She has already shown she isn't up to the fight for healthcare or minimum wage.

I am voting for the liberal candidate running for the democratic party's nomination. This continually rewarding mediocrity with weak kneed stances you can hardly tell from the gop is what got us here. Why would we continue to vote against our best interests?

[realmirage]

88. if you won't support any dem in the general you need to quit the dem party and

become a full blown extremist dedicated to destroying the entire system and hoping we can all survive

[timmymoff]

93. Those are the only two options?

Maybe you could get a Clinton to triangulate it for me. I am supporting dems in the election of 2016, possibly not president, that depends on transcripts. You should call for her to release the transcripts, if not she will lose a large amount of votes. I see you are selling fear and actually doubling down on it. Not interested in your fear selling. Scared of a GOP president? Don't nominate someone with higher than 50% negative ratings.

[Ed Suspicious]

103. Or we could elect Bernie.

[MFM008]

33. then you are a republican plant

period.

[Avalon Sparks]

59. I think she is the plant

On the issues that matter to me, she is far right.

[Kittycat]

6. I read it.

As another poster stated below me. Clinton is a Third Way candidate.

Ever wonder why our party has lost so many over the years under Third Way DNC leadership? The only energy we saw was under Obama, and Hillary is no Obama. She also running to the right of him.

[realmirage]

10. so you won't vote if it's hillary?

If that's the case you definitely are not a democrat. And if you read my entire post and absorbed it you'd realize why any sane person should vote for hillary or bernie in the general. It is scary that you can't see that.

[Kittycat]

29. I'm voting.

I see what you're doing there, and I won't take the bait. I've fallen in line since I can remember. But ultimately my vote belongs to me, and me alone. No one forces me on who or how to vote. I prefer to be a Policy Voter, and that's how I like to vote - my ballot always comes with options, just as yours likely does. I've voted in the Primary already, and had my say. Some of my neighbors didn't get the chance, because our election judges defied court orders (along with many other polling locations) and closed the polling location despite court orders. I couldn't even get my local Dem Leadership to respond on that. I hope you never know what that is like. I don't know if you voted yet, but if not - good luck.

[realmirage]

50. there's no bait, just remember the 8 years of bush and

the droves of people who couldn't find jobs when Obama took over and stopped the ship from sinking. If republicans win in november they will rule it all this time, and those 8 years of bush will seem like paradise compared to what we'll have then

[Kittycat]

66. I remember.

Maybe we just came out on different ends over the years.

[litlbilly]

34. If its Hillary's in the GE and the repubs win, and they will, this country is screwed either way.

Bernie is the only one who can fix anything, and not just this country, it will have huge ramifications throughout the world.
We will not survive with another third way conservadem. Cant you see that? I'm guessing not.

[realmirage]

58. 2 points

1. Hillary's plan for fixing things is more detailed and more realistic than Bernie's.

2. Hillary beats Trump or Cruz in the GE. The polls show that. Especially after the Repub convention which will split the voters over there

[BillZBubb]

111. 3 points

1. Hillary isn't fixing anything except the lock the 1% has on the economy. We can do that
her way or the republican way.

2. The polls at this point are meaningless and they don't show her beating the repub nominee. Polls
consistently show Bernie beating them all.

3. Your post is bullshit.

[kpola12]

54. Third Way corporate Democrat is just Republican lite.

With Bernie we have a real chance to be the liberal progressive party we thought we had joined all those years ago. This could be our last chance to rehabilitate our party to represent the interests of the 99%. Good luck you guys.

[Kittycat]

68. Agreed.

[Avalon Sparks]

56. Same as Dems

Not much difference in the establishment candidates.

Wedge issues don't count in my book

[Kittycat]

70. Wedge issues

Don't put food on the table, jobs in our cities, clean our water or rebuild our roads. Our party is going to have to start doing better than Wedge Salad when they offer up candidates.

[Avalon Sparks]

72. Exactly Kittycat!

Wedge issues reek of manipulation, sad to see Dems using the tactic these days.

Cheers!

[bettyellen]

122. "Wedge issues" only help impoverished women and POC. HOW DARE WE LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD!

[Politicalboi]

4. Gosh, you used facts

That's not fair. You weren't supposed to show us that. We're supposed to just ignore it like they do and pretend it will pass the smell test in the GE. Just give her her turn already.

[realmirage]

5. you are the sort of voter that loses elections for democrats

This is why a lot of Hillary voters don't put much importance on young, low information voters. They don't have a full grasp of what is at stake, and often don't bother to show up. That's partly why Hillary has 2.4 million more votes than Bernie. They know what's at stake and they show up like grown ups.

[Politicalboi]

20. I'm a 55 year old lesbian

And I vote. I have lived through the Clinton years. I made the mistake of voting twice for Bill. I will NEVER vote for Hillary. You know what's at stake, and you don't see that Hillary is the worst candidate ever. She's a ticking time bomb. The Clinton Foundation is going to be investigated now or later. I prefer now.

Bernie is the "real" Democrat and so am I. I will vote for Bernie in Ca June 7th. Bernie or BUST!

[MFM008]

42. oh come on

Sanders is 75 years old for Gods sake.
Hes almost older than my parents and ill be 58.
He hes not Nelson Mandela, he cant take the stress of running the USA.
you cant take a chance.
Women almost always outlive men.

[The Old Lie]

51. Nice ageism.

Clinton is no spring chicken either. She is 68 years old.

[Avalon Sparks]

73. He's been a dynamo on the campaign trail

It validated his stamina for me.

[CentralMass]

109. So Hillary is 69 and was treated for a blood clot in her brain a couple of years ago.

[realmirage]

44. it's worse

that you have experienced all that and still don't realize what giving the country to republicans will do to us all.

[Avalon Sparks]

75. What's actually worse then that is

Dems have chosen a Repub as the nominee.....

Third Wave at that

It's actually on you if you lose, you picked the nom.

[litlbilly]

35. third way blue dog repub dems deserve to lose. You dont get it.

[litlbilly]

38. How stupid can you be? low info young voters? Wholly shit you people are nuts. ignore for you

[litlbilly]

41. wait till NY and CA vote, lets see whos ahead then. How much do the Hill

Last edited Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:25 PM - Edit history (1)

people pay you for this nonsense?

[Beowulf]

62. I have a firm grasp of what's at stake,

and Hillary is extremely ill-suited to deal with the problems we face. Who I vote for in November is my business, but regardless and make no mistake about it, we are not on the same team.

[Avalon Sparks]

69. In my opinion you have been insulting fellow DUers

because we don't agree with you.

That's ok, I understand you must be frustrated. Because your attempts to use fear (oh no Repugs win) don't faze those of us who have watched her for years lesgislate hard right on economic and war and see no benefit to support her.

[IamMab]

9. Rebuttal: Every HA Goodman article Salon ever re-published.

Too many to post here.

[MFM008]

30. NOT VOTING FOR THE NOMINEE

how that for explaining madness? Not being reasonable. Support the candidate until the path is impossible. Not letting TED CRUZ or DONALD TRUMP run our lives and destroy the planet or NUKE EUROPE for at least 4 years.
Is this clear enough?

[Kittycat]

39. How is supporting Fracking or Endless Wars not "nuking the planet"

They both lead to death. One might be faster, one might be slower and include working until we die a painful death in poverty, and no hope for our children to survive.

You're telling us that our only choice is to support the corporate masters, and become slaves to them. Or support the tea party loons and who knows? Resort back to the wild west. I choose Bernie.

[Avalon Sparks]

71. Oh please chill with the hyperbole...

Nuke Europe? LOL

For reasons I can't fathom she is is the lead. so is Trump on the Repub side, as I'm sure you are aware.

My views are likely no different then long term Conservatives feel having Trump in the lead.
In a word - horrified.

Dems lost a lot of folks after Bill Clinton's term ended.

I know DU has a rule about members not supporting the Dem Nom, and is called Democratic Underground and is run by some awesome guys that helped me keep my sanity when Bush stole the elections. And should Hillary win the nom, I won't offer up a negative post about her, per the rules.

However in the real world it doesn't work like that, my vote is my vote and I won't vote for Repubs or corrupt candidates under any circumstances.

[frylock]

8. No, no we're not.

[Juicy_Bellows]

19. Agree, we're not even playing the same sport. Nt.

[frylock]

23. Exactly.

[m-lekktor]

46. Hillary supporters talk like republicans and I am not on any team with that mess. nt

[DanTex]

11. You're right, of course.

And the thing you'll notice is that the people who disagree with you and insist on voting R or third-party if their candidate doesn't win the primary are almost all Bernie fans. They're not in it for the future of the country, they're in it for the cult of personality.

[realmirage]

17. I think this is why everyone always ignores the youth vote

They don't really understand all the issues, they usually just latch onto a personality and then often don't bother to show up to vote. The fact they won't vote for another candidate in their own party proves that they really don't understand the world at all.

[Politicalboi]

25. Spare us Hillary

Oh I thought you were her berating the youth vote, sorry. Those kids did do their homework, and they choose Bernie.

[JCanete]

53. Way to rally around the call that we're all on the same team!!

I think my reasons for seriously considering not voting for Hillary in the GE are pretty damn sound, and I've heard similar opinions expressed over and over on these boards. If you'd like to address the best of our arguments rather than the straw-men you're inventing here, then maybe we can get to a place where we actually are ... you know ... on the same team.

For the record, I think that voting for Hillary in the primary because she is the more prepared and capable politician(I may disagree but I can see the argument), or in the general because she's the better candidate than any repub, are legitimate positions to take. I'm not swayed by the first, and I'm on the fence about the second, but I would never belittle you for being in camp Hillary.

[DanTex]

57. There are no sound reasons for not voting D in the general election.

All that does is help Trump/Cruz. And, yes, you have every right to help Trump become president if you want.

[JCanete]

92. then why not make that case by addressing those arguments that we think are most sound,

rather than entirely making shit up about why we might be disinclined to vote for Hillary. It sounds like you could knock those arguments right down. Really, Hillary supporters and Sanders supporters should do this. I get why this happens in threads that start from a disingenuous place ... people feel antagonized enough to throw some shit right back, but in threads that aren't already loaded, it would be great if people were more inclined towards the generous read of fellow DUer intentions.

I would actually like to hear well reasoned arguments for why voting for a third party candidate, or abstaining from voting in the general election, would be disastrous, longterm as well as short-term, but if you can't even be bothered to understand our motivations, then I suspect your interest isn't in winning a battle of ideas.

[LyndaG]

12. You're right

I remember the eight long years of Bush/Cheney. Some said there was no difference between Bush and Gore. Ha.

[realmirage]

15. The same progressives who praise Gore

and his global warming campaign, among many other things, thought there was no difference between bush and gore. The madness in this world is sometimes overwhelming.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. If the Democratic party wants the votes of the Left it should run Leftist candidates.

[realmirage]

16. Another low information voter. Please educate yourself beyond

what you hear from your Bernie friends

[frylock]

24. Piss off, n00b.

[Politicalboi]

28. Is realmirage real?

[frylock]

36. Clearly somebody's sockpuppet.

Been here all of two days, and already running their face hole.

[Avalon Sparks]

76. ^^^This^^^^

Cheers Fry!

[BlindTiresias]

31. Extend a hand

And then you slap them in the face? Something tells me your motivations are not entirely pure with this OP.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

89. you have been here 2 days. maybe you should post less and read more.

[Ed Suspicious]

107. Condescend more. It fuels my passion for Berning you people this primary season.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

123. What do you disagree with and claim is "low information"?

Do you disagree that the Democratic Party loses Leftist voters because they choose not to vote for conservative/moderate candidates?

Or, perhaps, Leftist voters are "high information" voters refuse to go along with a two-party system that is obviously corrupt?

[onehandle]

14. Your point is wasted here where 'Bernie supporters' in no way represent real world ones. nt

[realmirage]

26. Unfortunately I've met many real world ones

that are just like the ones here. They act a lot like people who have joined a cult - they will not consider information that goes against what they have decided is absolute truth, and they despise anyone who disagrees. Right now they are operating like termites that are trying to destroy the party's chances in November. Completely scary that they don't understand how shitty this country will get if republicans win.

[Avalon Sparks]

80. Pot meet Kettle

Lol

[realmirage]

82. cliche, meet attack that doesn't agree with what I've been saying about unity

[revbones]

21. Hey look, more loyalty pledge posts! Oh Yay!

Yep, another person telling everyone their principles don't matter and should just suck it up to vote for the lesser of two evils yet again.

[realmirage]

27. You obviously don't remember the 8 years of bush

that Nader supporters said would be no different than if Gore won.

[revbones]

32. Either that, or I just don't live my life in fear as you seem to...

You're not going to convince people to support the corrupt and dishonest candidacy of Hillary by fear.

[realmirage]

61. not fear, reality and experience

[revbones]

65. Sure, call it whatever you need to in order to sleep at night.

I'll stick to my principles. If you have no problem selling yours out, well that's on you and something you'll have to deal with.

[riderinthestorm]

22. SCOTUS will become increasingly irrelevant as catastrophic climate change overtakes us

within 5 - 10 years.

That threat is moot.

Many voters will vote their conscience so when the planet's inevitable slide into disaster is inevitable they can say that at least they tried.

Hillary and the Republicans ensure our doom. Only Bernie and Jill Stein offer forceful, assertive plans to work on it Day 1.

Most likely its already too late.

But whose side do you want to be on in 10 years? Incrementalism towards climate change or aggressive action now?

[Avalon Sparks]

79. Plus the stipulations in the Free Trade Agreements

Where corps decide legislation.

[DookDook]

94. This! eom

[Capt. Obvious]

45. Don't worry

The two sides will continue to hate each other once the primary is over.

The fun part will be predicting what the reason will be.

[Avalon Sparks]

52. On the issues important to me

Hillary has the same policy stance as Pugs.

Fracking
War
Economy
Free Trade
Campaign Finance Reform


So can't see myself voting for her.

As for the wedge issues, I don't vote based on them, I refuse to be manipulated.

[realmirage]

63. have you considered

that your assumptions are not entirely right? You're not curious enough to research it on your own?

[Avalon Sparks]

84. Don't insult me by assuming I haven't done my research...

I don't know you're age, but I've been a political wonk for 25 years, get my info from every source out there and make my own conclusions.

I danced in the street when Bill Clinton won; Popped a bottle of Champaign and Screamed my Lungs Out

Didn't bat an eye at the Monica witch hunt - it was their personal business.

I've been with DU since Bush stole the Presidency.

Every single negative thing I heard about them was due to the right wing smear machine.

Email server? Who cares - I read some of my work emails on my personal PC

Two for one Clintons in 2016..... What could be better? Especially watching the Repubs Heads Explode!

What's in the speeches? Ho-hum - I don't care

And then....

How many speeches? How much?? Who sponsored??? WTF????

And just like that, my support of the Clinton's is over.

There is no doubt - It's corruption, it's accepting influence money plain and simple.

The amount of cash accepted, the frequency, the specific industries - financial, health insurance, Pharms, Defense industries, Oil and Gas.... It's systemic. It's despicable. It's Corruption.

Not only do they not have my back, they've accepted large cash payments to the tune of millions to push for and pass legislation that's likely to hurt my bottom line, and/ or well being.

I'm done with them.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

95. You speak for me! Thank you. n/t

[Avalon Sparks]

96. Cheers!

Thank you!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

97. ...

[840high]

55. I am not on team Hillary.

[PowerToThePeople]

60. False.

[sister_rosa_refried]

64. I really hope so, dear.

I will not have a few shots of tequila tonight and pray that this organization "DU" is not reflective of the voters of the nation.

The people in her remind Sister of the screaming, vomiting, pant pooping little assholes ... I mean charming children at Our Lady of Chili Verde's day care center. We had to have the Fabuloso truck show up daily to clean out the shitters.

[Autumn]

74. No I don't think we are on the same team. Meh on the rest.

[Matt_in_STL]

77. You might want to wait until the shit thrown at Bernie sinks a bit before trying a unity thread

There really is a finesse to it that you could learn from the other Hillary supporters.

[realmirage]

81. you prove my point

If you really cared about unity you'd look for the strengths in a unity thread instead of focusing only on the perceived flaws. But maybe you yourself can learn a few things from the more evolved Bernie supporters that do exist here

[Matt_in_STL]

87. Or, maybe I find unity threads to be bullshit when surrounded by the countless smears.

I'll pass on unity at this point in time.

[daleanime]

78. No, we use to be....

but there's been a corporate take over since then.

[ecstatic]

83. Same team as genuine Bernie supporters, but not the BernieBros.

BernieBros are displaced rightwing libertarians who are overly aggressive, rude and offensive. I'll let others collaborate with them on the one or two common concerns we have. Other than that, I don't want anything to do with them.

[Lil Missy]

99. No, they are not on the same team. The Hillary supporters are Democrats. n/t

[BillZBubb]

115. Correction: The Hillary supporters are conservative Democrats. n/t

[Doctor_J]

101. Nope

[elana i am]

102. no we are not on the same side

i only vote for honest progressives who espouse true liberal democratic values. i don't vote for anyone with credibility and ethics issues who supports fracking, unfettered free trade, regime change & pointless illegal wars, death penalty, etc.

[AuntPatsy]

104. It's madness to believe any GOP present day candidate to honestly care about anyone but

themselves, at least with a Democratic individual holding the reigns we have a fighting chance even if we do most of the fighting...

To believe otherwise is fooling themselves...

[angrychair]

105. She is not a Democrat

She is, in her own words, a moderate centrist.

A "moderate centrist" is a Republican to ashamed to call themselves one in public.
Not hard to spot one. They use all the same memes as their Republican counterparts, "you just want 'free stuff' from the government" - said on this site often or "Bernie is a socialist/communist/ that will destroy and/or ruin America" - also said on this site often. They use neo-Nazi websites like Stormfront to attack a Jewish Democratic candidate for president - also done on this website.

"Moderate centrist" rationalize taking part in the overthrow of democratically elected governments by military juntas as being "legal" with no regard to if it was or not and no regard to if it was moral or ethical even if legal.

[Bjornsdotter]

106. Not seeing a Kumbaya moment

....coming. I've seen too many angry people who are done with voting against someone rather than voting for someone.

[Zorroinhell]

108. No we are not and here is why! Hillary is responsible for the death of Berta Caceres!

I will never vote for Hillary and here is why!

&feature=em-share_video_user

[realmirage]

110. Jane Sanders settled this debate by saying

She and Bernie will vote Hillary if she gets the nom.

[BillZBubb]

112. Well she settled it for Bernie and Jane.

The rest of us not so much.

[realmirage]

114. Then I guess you'll have

To stick with whatever party you really are a part of, because you're not a liberal

[BillZBubb]

118. Actually, Hillary is not a liberal on the issues of the economy and foreign policy.

She's a corporatist foreign policy hawk. She's barely liberal on social issues.

I'm an FDR Democrat. I want an expanded New Deal. I want Medicare for all. I want the Social Security cap removed. I want Wall Street predators brought to heel. I want a president who will fight like our lives depend on it to address climate change. I don't want any more Iraq wars and Libyan interventions. I don't want any more punitive crime bills, bankruptcy bills, and welfare "reform". In other words, I don't want Hillary.

[BillZBubb]

113. Are you our new Hillbot PPP contributor?

[realmirage]

120. It's ok

That sort of response feels better.

[Chan790]

116. No, we're not.

Republicans are on the Republican team.

Clintonites are on the team is paying them, so as long as the Republicans on Wall St. don't bounce Hillary's paycheck that's the Republican team.

Democrats are on Team Sanders.

[2pooped2pop]

117. and thats why YOU need to vote for Bernie

A Hillary win is a loss for us all.

[messiah]

121. Conservatives and leftists on the same team?.

Leftists have been loosing for years with Democrats in office.

Most Democrats only care about abortion so everything else can go down the drain as far as they're concerned.