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Sat Apr 16, 2016, 03:48 PM

The US middle class is in the top 1% ....

of the world economically.

As liberals, shouldn't we be equally concerned about the other human beings on our planet?
Shouldn't we be willing to share the wealth and the jobs and the industries with other countries and peoples?

We have been very privileged...and like the silver spoon portion of our society, most of that good fortune has been an accident of birth rather than something we have earned.

Trade agreements in spite of their ugly local side effects are good for the worlds populations.

The problem is not disruption due to trade agreements, it's the failure of the social safety net including job training and housing/food assistance.

We shouldn't be trade isolationists any more than we should be political isolationist.








103 replies, 8165 views

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Reply The US middle class is in the top 1% .... (Original post)
Fresh_Start Apr 2016 OP
Hoyt Apr 2016 #1
Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #3
Zira Apr 2016 #66
JackRiddler Apr 2016 #98
Armstead Apr 2016 #91
JackRiddler Apr 2016 #97
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #90
Hoyt Apr 2016 #92
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #93
Hoyt Apr 2016 #95
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #96
Hoyt Apr 2016 #99
Blanks Apr 2016 #102
Scuba Apr 2016 #2
hill2016 Apr 2016 #6
Scuba Apr 2016 #10
hill2016 Apr 2016 #12
Hoyt Apr 2016 #25
Scuba Apr 2016 #29
Hoyt Apr 2016 #38
Scuba Apr 2016 #43
Recursion Apr 2016 #57
Scuba Apr 2016 #72
Recursion Apr 2016 #75
Scuba Apr 2016 #80
Recursion Apr 2016 #81
Scuba Apr 2016 #83
Recursion Apr 2016 #84
Scuba Apr 2016 #85
Recursion Apr 2016 #86
Scuba Apr 2016 #88
Recursion Apr 2016 #89
Scuba Apr 2016 #101
DCBob Apr 2016 #76
Recursion Apr 2016 #78
DCBob Apr 2016 #87
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #94
R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #11
jillan Apr 2016 #4
Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #13
litlbilly Apr 2016 #19
Zira Apr 2016 #65
Downwinder Apr 2016 #5
Hoyt Apr 2016 #26
mmonk Apr 2016 #7
Romulox Apr 2016 #8
Wilms Apr 2016 #22
R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #9
Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #14
R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #17
cheapdate Apr 2016 #55
Zira Apr 2016 #67
katsy Apr 2016 #18
Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #35
katsy Apr 2016 #45
Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #48
katsy Apr 2016 #52
jwirr Apr 2016 #46
litlbilly Apr 2016 #20
azmom Apr 2016 #15
Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #16
Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #21
Karma13612 Apr 2016 #74
BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #23
TM99 Apr 2016 #31
krawhitham Apr 2016 #24
RadiationTherapy Apr 2016 #27
djean111 Apr 2016 #28
TM99 Apr 2016 #30
A Little Weird Apr 2016 #32
dana_b Apr 2016 #33
azmom Apr 2016 #44
TM99 Apr 2016 #47
raging moderate Apr 2016 #82
jfern Apr 2016 #34
Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #36
Hiraeth Apr 2016 #37
Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #39
Hiraeth Apr 2016 #41
Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #49
Hiraeth Apr 2016 #50
haikugal Apr 2016 #53
Hiraeth Apr 2016 #54
jfern Apr 2016 #42
Recursion Apr 2016 #58
jfern Apr 2016 #59
Recursion Apr 2016 #60
jfern Apr 2016 #63
Skwmom Apr 2016 #40
daleanime Apr 2016 #51
Joob Apr 2016 #56
Odin2005 Apr 2016 #61
Zira Apr 2016 #68
vintx Apr 2016 #77
99Forever Apr 2016 #62
Zira Apr 2016 #64
senseandsensibility Apr 2016 #69
My Good Babushka Apr 2016 #70
TheFarS1de Apr 2016 #71
pampango Apr 2016 #73
Recursion Apr 2016 #79
Hiraeth Apr 2016 #100
notadmblnd Apr 2016 #103

Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 03:54 PM

1. Fresh_Start I pray for you and your excellent post. You will be slammed for being a globalist,

 

corporatist, GOPer, scab, and whatever else the world's 1%ers can dream up to criticize poor workers in Mexico, Vietnam, India, etc. Nationalism seems to be a virtue nowadays, not just reserved for Archie Bunker style Republicans.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 03:58 PM

3. I know that I was concerned about the backlash.

But I thought a liberal viewpoint should be heard occasionally.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:16 PM

66. THIS OP IS NOT A LIBERAL VIEW POINT

 

How uninfomed can you get! WTF!!

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/12/31/ten-reasons-why-tpp-must-be-defeated


The TPP is NOTHING Liberal and I'm getting the idea you've never listened to a liberal news cast in your life. All of the liberal outlets are a against the TPP for good reason.

Maybe you got lost on your way to Free Republic?

WTF! I highly recommend you visit ANY liberal news site. Start with DemocracyNow.org.

BTW. That's it. You're on ignore.

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Response to Zira (Reply #66)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:37 AM

98. It's not even a viewpoint capable of counting to 10.

 

See #97, a couple of posts below this...

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:06 AM

91. Not a neo-liberal one though

 

yes trade is a complex issue.

But I treject your breezy dismissal and mischaracterization of the goals, priorities and values of those who oppose the scam of a global economy where all governments are owned by the 1 percent and Corporations and Elite Investors

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:35 AM

97. Is it liberal to lack arithmetic?

 

U.S. population is 4% of world population, so if the "middle class" is about half of that, it's a neat trick to fit this 2% into the global 1%. Pretty crowded up there - is there any room for actual rich people?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:02 AM

90. SO we are supposed to shut up and accept the race to the bottom

Resistance is futile. the Peon should accept the status quo





suicidal crap

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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #90)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:09 AM

92. You are supposed to quit treating poor foreign workers like scabs and competition.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #92)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:17 AM

93. America First

We need to end our global military empire that supports the global corporate elites thumb on the scales, we need to stop killing people across the globe because they were unlucky enough to be sitting on "our" resources

you are supporting the race to the bottom and suggesting that American workers are somehow fucking obligated to compete for wages with people makes pennies on the dollar. Bullshit. Sounds quite republican to me. Sound like the New World Order. I don't owe then that. I owe them my bet attempts to end our illegal wars on them and to get our corporations under control and off their backs. I can offer them a hand up but I do not owe them my job.

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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #93)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:32 AM

95. Yep America First and Nationalism, screw the rest of world we are the "greedy 1%ers of the world."

 

We are pretty much the 1%ers of the world -- certainly the 5%ers if you want to debate -- and have taken more than our fair share of the world's wealth, but screw them -- America First, Nationalism and a little bit of hatred.

I believe helping the rest of the world develop will be good for everyone.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #95)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:35 AM

96. Ubsurd excuse for the Race to the bottom

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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #96)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:37 AM

99. "Race to bottom" and other such BS is just dog whistle against poor foreign workers.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #95)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:52 AM

102. World population growth is out of control...

When people from 3rd world countries move from the villages where it is common and accepted to have a whole bunch of kids, their outlook changes to an understanding that if they work hard they might hope to have a child.

People don't like it (especially American people), but if we don't have an industrial revolution throughout the world, the unwashed peasants will rise up, form an army of starving desperate people and destroy civilization as we know.

At least that's my concern. We need to take care of the world, and it is less likely to threaten the existence of the entire human race.

You are correct.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 03:57 PM

2. "Trade agreements in spite of their ugly local side effects are good for the worlds populations."

 

Care to try to back that up????

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:00 PM

6. let's ask the people in India, Philippines

 

who are getting jobs due to world trade agreements

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:05 PM

10. Let's see someone in India get's a $3/day job at the expense of someone in the USA who loses ...

 

... a $30/hour job and you thinks this is a boon for working people????


Fact is, you can't back up your statement. It's bullshit.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:11 PM

12. I really don't think your numbers work

 

what field is that in? Doc review? Radiology?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:15 PM

25. Nationalism at its ugliest. If in fact an Indian is getting $3/day, it damn sure is better than

 

they got before. What about Vietnamese who all they ever got from us was firebombs and hatred. The TPP actually has provisions that will help move that along.

Yet, most of Sanders' supporters look at foreign labor as worthless scabs.

And, where are our unions? Most of them have "international" in their name. yet they aren't in poor countries because the people can't pay enough in dues to make it worth their time.

A economically progressing world is good for everyone. Jobs in the Middle East would go a long way to quelling dissension there too.

When you look at it from a Mexican's or Vietnamese's perspective, even our lower middle class are in the 3% and just as greedy and callous as what we deem wealthy people.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:21 PM

29. So you support the Race to the Bottom. No surprise there Hoyt. None at all.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:59 PM

38. So you see poor people wlling to work for a better life as competition and scabs.

 

No wonder foreigners call us "greedy Americans."

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #38)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:19 PM

43. Whoooose.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:34 PM

57. It's certainly a boon for the Indian guy who was previously making 20 cents a day

The Indian and Chinese middle classes have exploded over the past 20 years. Neither country is in an FTA with the US (and for that matter our FTAs are mostly meant to exclude India and China), but these are golden years along the lines of the 1950s in the US for the world's two biggest countries.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #57)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:33 AM

72. You seem like a bright guy so I'm pretty sure you can understand this ...

 

Going from two working people making a combined $240.20 per day to one working person making $3.00 per day is a horrible net loss for working people.






If one can't understand that perhaps it's because they have their eye more on the profits of the owner class than the earnings fo the working class.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 09:55 AM

75. Only if by that you mean "white working people"

It's a huge, huge gain for the non-white people you thoughtlessly accuse of "stealing American jobs" (whatever that actually means).

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Response to Recursion (Reply #75)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:21 AM

80. It's a net loss for working people. Your attempt to suggest it's racist is noted, however.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #80)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:23 AM

81. Nope. *net* income and wages are up

The world is richer than it was 20 years ago, at every income level.

I know it violates your illusions to understand that, but it's true: the net income for workers is much, much higher now.

Pampered white middle class Americans finally face something approaching what minorities do. That is hard for them, I grant; but it's not the end of the world.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #81)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:25 AM

83. In the example I used in the thread, net income for working people is NOT up. Period.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #83)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:27 AM

84. Yes, it is

Read your link. It's higher.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #84)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:29 AM

85. No. Income drops from $240.20 per day to $3.00 per day. If you think that's higher ...

 

... then you need to sign up for a remedial math course.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #85)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:31 AM

86. OMG!



Seriously?

Here's a very, very basic arithmetic lesson:

If 2 people go from $200 to $120

And 100 people go from $0.80 to $3

Net income has gone up.

This isn't actually very difficult.

Do you actually not understand that?

You are completely ignoring the staggering size of the developing world's growing middle class.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #86)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:48 AM

88. OMG! Series?

 

C'mon, you're not stupid. There are only two people in my example, not 100.

Net income went from $240.20 to $3.00 per day for the two workers in my example.






Are you completely ignoring that? Why?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #88)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:58 AM

89. That's because your example is a *complete lie*

You're, again, ignoring the staggering *size* of the developing world's middle class.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #89)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:47 AM

101. Your example assumes it takes 100 Indians to replace one American worker.

 

Do you really have that poor an opinion of Indian workers? I suspect not.


That means that your example is a *complete lie* while mine is accurate. The size of the developing world's middle class is not a part of the equation.







If you cannot engage in debate honestly, don't look for any more replies from me.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:04 AM

76. A typical call center worker in the Philippines makes about $500-700 per month.

That's decent money in the Philippines. The outsourcing business from the US has created a huge middle class of stable younger workers who are becoming the backbone of the Philippine economy.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #76)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:11 AM

78. Yup. Hyderabad call center wages are about $800 per month

And the programmers working there make about $1200 per month, which is almost comparable to US wages.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #78)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:44 AM

87. For sure there are problems with outsourcing but clearly some are benefiting.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:30 AM

94. Agree

These people are rightwing neocon apologists for the 1%. disgusting.

Proving that the Dem party, as we new it, is dead. It is not the Corporate Party

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:06 PM

11. No need to go to India. You can ask H1B Indians

 


that have been imported to take over American positions.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 03:59 PM

4. Free Trade agreements do not help with the poverty around the world. FAIR TRADE agreements do.

Shameful that you do not understand this.

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Response to jillan (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:11 PM

13. Did I say "free" trade agreements?

I was going to talk about how the agreements are inadequate because they do not cover enough areas to make them fair to everyone. Its not just jobs but also pollution and societal disruption and worker safety and on and on.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:40 PM

19. You Hillarites thought long and hard on this one. nice try

 

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Response to litlbilly (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:09 PM

65. They're profoundly ignorant because they don't google and find out anything.

 

There is NO JUSTIFICATION FOR BEING THIS IGNORANT.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:00 PM

5. Not being in the "middle class" I can only say that

Trade agreements have become about much more than trade. They are not just about tariffs.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:16 PM

26. Exactly, they bind countries together in ways that go far beyond trade.

 

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:00 PM

7. 2nd in North America alone.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:03 PM

8. Just a coinky-dink that these trade deals enrich Hillary's donors, I guess? nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 05:08 PM

22. That's just an unintended consequence.

 

Collateral damage, if you will.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:04 PM

9. Your third grade sophistry is duly noted.

 

Unfortunately Corporate Free Trade is predatory in nature.

And since Corporate Free Trade is anything but fair I would have to ask...

1. Are you really this misinformed about the world, or

2. Are you working for a corporation by posting this drivel?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:14 PM

14. I didn't say "Free Trade"

there are many studies whether or not you choose to ignore them....international trade is good.
But it could be better, fairer, more protective of the planet earth, more protective of workers around the globe.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:28 PM

17. Which just adds to your third grade sophistry.

 

Our esteemed leaders call it free trade.

NAFTA, CAFTA, TPP?

Do you lnow what the "F" stands for in the first two??

I call it "failure", but it is known as "Free."

By all means please list some of these studies...especially about the first two.

The main beneficiaries of "Free trade" are the Corporations, the powerful and the lamprey type parasitic politicians that attach themselves to the former.

Do you care to answer honestly? Are you posting this crud on behalf of some corporation?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:29 PM

55. Thank you!

"Free trade" is when powerful corporations in wealthy countries make lop-sided deals with their cronies in poor countries to steal labor and resources. No one gets rich but the rich.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #55)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:24 PM

67. Nafta went from one country to the next using the cheapest labor they could

 

putting all the homegrown businesses out of business as people went to work for the new factories and changing the whole economic system of the countries, then fleeing the country and leaving it impoverished and the old economic infrastructure toppled(put out of businesses by the higher paying factory jobs that fled when laws were put in protecting workers) as they went to the next cheapest labor country and did the same. It has destroyed many countries all over the world.

The TPP is far worse than Nafta. It means we can't even use our country's laws to stop products like lead in Chinese products from getting in our food. It gives them the ability to SUE us if our laws stop dangerous products. But it is so much worse.

The forecast is 1 million jobs will leave America when the TPP is signed.

We lost 800,000 jobs when Nafta was signed - mostly factory. This time it will be the high end jobs like big cuts further in Tech jobs.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:34 PM

18. How is manufacturing goods in one country

and shipping goods across the world in containers that aren't reused for the most part good for the planet?

Clue: it's not.

Corporations should produce the goods and sell them to the market where they are produced.

But the corporate whore politicians sold out their constituencies & the environment, and enabled corporations to make obscene amounts of profit on the backs of wage slaves.

No one has been lifted out of poverty. Wage slaves making a dollar or 2 or 10 a day isn't lifting people out of poverty when there's no clear hope or path to a better future. Labor has no seat at the free trade table. It's modern day feudalism.

And since the fuck when should I, as a taxpayer, be on the hook for perceived profit losses should our regulations stand in the path or a corporation selling their shit to us. Are you fucking kidding me.

Yea ask all the countries that are being sued for wanting to put warnings on packs of cigarettes. It won't happen here but it's happening around the world. Countries are being sued for trying to protect their citizens v

Our government has no fucking business enabling the profits of any corporation. Government used to be in the business of protecting the people.

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Response to katsy (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:44 PM

35. Containers are not reused?

 

They typically last 10-15 years. If they stopped reusing then, shipping would become unaffordable.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #35)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:34 PM

45. Tons of container waste in S.F. & they're starting

to use them for the homeless in some communities IIRC.

https://blog.etsy.com/en/recycling-the-shipping-container/

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Response to katsy (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:44 PM

48. You said they are not reused

 

First off, those containers are likely not brand new, or used once. Also, you just linked to an article that shows some of the other ways they are reused when they have outlived their useful life on a boat.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #48)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:06 PM

52. Google is your friend

And I stated "IIRC". It was also on CNN a while back.

http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2879.htm

There's a lot of info out there.

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Response to katsy (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:35 PM

46. Thank you. Re: your last paragraph - especially not at the

expense of the people.

She and her third way scare the hell out of me.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:41 PM

20. that is what they are called whether you said it or not.

 

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:22 PM

15. People are being exploited around the

world for the benefit of a few elites around the world. It's all about profits, not helping people. People are working in unsafe conditions, working long hours for very little money. Why? Because corporations don't want to pay fair wages to Americans.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:25 PM

16. sources? citations? It's not true just because someone says it on the internet

 

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:59 PM

21. There are studies by numerous governments and many academics

No matter which one I pick you will deny it.
Because you don't want to truth.

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:54 AM

74. Agree, AND it's also not necessarily true even if said on TV either!! eom

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 05:09 PM

23. Funny, you're the same person who posted this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110787461

<I saw that under BS plan my taxes will increase by more than $30K a year.
I can't afford it.

The increase under HRC is 1/10th of that.
And I will reap 5 digit windfalls under Trump.

The BS tax increases are substantial on much more modest incomes.
I've got to believe that numbers like those will cool voters enthusiasm for BS.
I don't watch any television...so I don't know if people realize what he's proposing and how it will impact their lives.
Is it known..and I'm just unaware or is this something the GOP is holding in reserve for the GE?>

Troll Alert!!!!!

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:24 PM

31. Of course they are the same.

 

They don't give a shit about us here in the US. They have their wealth and privilege and status. They just want to take what is left from us and give it (hahaha!) to some body us in another country. The irony of course is that the only ones that will benefit will be the 1% but not us or those other country's populace.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 05:24 PM

24. Your concern is noted

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:17 PM

27. "You make $40k and have insurance

don't worry about what the executive team and the janitorial team makes."

Nudge me if I snore, wouldjya?

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:21 PM

28. The "trade" agreements are meant to bring most of us down to that worldwide poverty level, with the

 

1% sitting on top.

The "trade" agreements state, and enforce, that a corporation can take a sovereign country to court if that country refuses to let them frack or strip mine or any other profit-generating action that would ruin that earth you claim to care so much about.

Either you do not know what you are talking about, or you think the rest of us cannot read, look stuff up, and use reason.
Fail.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:22 PM

30. I soundly reject your neoliberalism

 

and the fucking guilt trip you are trying to lay on me and us.

We rebuilt Europe through the Marshall Plan after WWII. We had fair trade under FDR through JFK even until Nixon. Free Trade is a product of neoliberalism and you are falling for the guilt hook line and sinker.

I do not support lowering the standards of living in any country in order to slightly raise it in another. I do not support the shifting of all manufacturing from one nation to another such that the only ones that benefit are the corporate stockholders. I do not appreciate someone attempting to shame me about being the supposed 1% in the world when I will be paying student loan debt until I die, I struggle with medical care and medical costs weekly, and freelance work that I do is often under cut by cheap foreign laborers who will take $5.00 an hour for a job that should be making $25.00 given the amount of work.

There is a ton of research that shows how fucked up Mexico is after NAFTA and corporate manufacturing moved there. It did nothing to raise those communities out of abject poverty and in fact in most cases made it far worse.

Sorry your bullshit is not going to work on us. The only reason you give a shit about other people over there is because you obviously don't have to worry about survival over here. I fucking hate your kind of liberalism.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #30)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:29 PM

32. Well said

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Response to TM99 (Reply #30)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:39 PM

33. ^^This!!^^

Argh!!! They will say and justify ANYTHING Clinton says or does.

I'll bet that these people hate that kind of "liberalism" too

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Response to TM99 (Reply #30)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:24 PM

44. This company pays workers $6.00 per day in Mexico.

http://www.latinorebels.com/2016/04/14/maquila-workers-protest-in-juarez-ends-but-the-fight-continues/

The movement began in December, when 120 workers were fired from Lexmark after they halted assembly-line production in protest for a six-peso raise, less than $1. According to the Borderplex Alliance, there are 330 maquilas in Juárez. Most workers say their wages are not enough to meet their basic needs. Lexmark, a U.S. company based in Kentucky, primarily sells printers, toner and ink. According to their annual report, revenue for the company exceeded their $1 billion target in 2014. Lexmark workers earn 105 pesos a day, or about $6.

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Response to azmom (Reply #44)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:41 PM

47. I just got off the phone

 

with tech support in SE Asia on an eBay issue with a fraudulent buyer.

The guy couldn't really help and given the current financial and health stress I am under, I said to him well it is $37.00. I guess I just have to accept it as a total loss. He sniped quite unprofessionally that that was 3 days work for him. I responded that being medically disabled, struggling to not be evicted this month, and worrying about my own financials stress, yes $37.00 is a big deal for me as well. But your corporate masters don't see it that way and will do nothing to help me recoup that from the fraudulent buyer y'all allowed to rip me off. I am glad y'all record this because that was damn unprofessional to say.

And this is what they want. They want conflict between us at the bottom struggling for every last dime. They are fine up on top. The CEO of eBay doesn't want for shit. He isn't trying to live where this kid was on $37.00 a day. He isn't trying to live here like me struggling for rent and medical costs not covered by my insurance in Phoenix.

But then fuckers like this OP have the balls to come in here and shame me for my circumstance. They try to tell me I am the 1% if I just allow them to fuck me over more then that kid in SE Asia will be middle class. And it is all bullshit. They don't care about me and will continue to fuck me over. They don't care about that kid because eBay is NOT going to pay them more.

So fuck them! I am ready for a bloody revolution at this point.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #47)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:23 AM

82. Besides, it costs more to live in the US, especially in the COLD north!

You are right, TM99. People in the US are NOT ALLOWED to live the inexpensive ways many SE Asia people do. Just try that, and you get your kids taken away and put in some institution or in under-supervised "foster" homes. A guy in San Francisco was just FORCED out of the inexpensive box he had cleverly rigged up. PLUS, there is the necessity in most of the northern half of the US to spend hundreds of dollars each year on warm clothing and hundreds of dollars each month on heating bills, because the outdoors temperatures fall to below freezing, at least at night for many months and even at noon during the winter. People DIE from that kind of cold! There are laws against the simple fire-building our ancestors used to survive these winters, and back then lots of people DIDN'T survive but died from the cold. As I once emailed the Congress when they wanted to yank unemployment benefits from a lot of people in December, WHAT PART OF 20 DEGREES BELOW ZERO FAHRENHEIT DO YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND?

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:41 PM

34. The US is 4.4% of the world population. So an American with an average income is definitely not

global 1%

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Response to jfern (Reply #34)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:47 PM

36. You need an income of 40k per year

 

Very attainable for many Americans.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:50 PM

37. VERY attainable for MANY Americans.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:59 PM

39. 40,000 is attainable for many americans

 

The median income falls around 50k.

25k would put you in the top 5% globally.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #39)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:05 PM

41. 40,000 is attainable for many americans. bullshit. eom

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:45 PM

49. More than half make 50k or more. That is many americans.

 

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:58 PM

50. Individual or Total household Income? either way the 40k jobs of the future. where are they?

easily obtainable? non existent in my neck of the woods.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:07 PM

53. So very out of touch....

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Response to haikugal (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:10 PM

54. bubbles inside of bubbles. insulated and insular


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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:07 PM

42. It's over $100k to be global 1%

80th percentile household income in the US $112k, and so over 20% of 4.4%=0.88% of people in the world are Americans earning at least 6 digits.

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Response to jfern (Reply #42)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:35 PM

58. No, it's $34K for a single individual

$100K would be for a family of 3.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #58)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:42 PM

59. $34k sounds way too low to be 80th percentile in the US

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Response to jfern (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:50 PM

60. For an individual earner that sounds about right; median is $25K or so

I think part of the disconnect might be that domestically we talk about the 1% of earners, regardless of household size, but all the global data is based on per capita household income (so, a family of 5, where the one earner makes $10 a day, is considered to be right at the $2/day global poverty level).

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Response to Recursion (Reply #60)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:04 PM

63. Household income probably makes more sense

And the cutoff for 1% is over $100k there.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:04 PM

40. Exploitative trade agreements are not good for workers of any country. n/t

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:05 PM

51. Grab a dictionary.....

look up disingenuous, then have a good night.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:32 PM

56. You basicaally just said the middle class if fine, because others are worse. Idiot.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:00 PM

61. Oh look, more "opposing free trade makes you a racist" horseshit.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #61)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:47 PM

68. More Hillarians being beyond uninformed.

 

They don't have google? The don't bother to check on anything before they support it?

How does anyone come up with TPP is good when there's so much out there and the entire liberal news media has exposed it for being BAD BAD BAD for us.

This appears to be the type that support HRC - they don't research or vet. How else can you explain how they never answer to anything when we show facts. They run.

We demand to get to the bottom of things and find out. That's what adults do. I don't know what the heck to call these people who refuse to be informed. No adults I deal with in real life would make it a point of not getting informed. Of course no adults around me would support HRC because they are informed.

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Response to Zira (Reply #68)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:06 AM

77. Republican policies. Republican rationalization. nt

 

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:04 PM

62. Ahh fuck, not this bullshit again.




You clowns need to get some fresh material, this shit was rotted the first time the Corporate Teabaggers tried to run it out several years ago.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:08 PM

64. How UNINFORMED can you get? I'm guessing you are a HILLARIAN because this is so bad.

 

Please watch DemocracyNow.org's daily show. You'd have a clue what that those trade deals actually do.

As it stands, you're getting on my ignore for this crap mis-informed post.

Google nafta, google the tpp. Get informed. I'm not here to educate you and I'm too apalled by the ignorance and the clear LACK OF INTERESTING IN FINDING out WTF the TPP is before you posted this crap.

As Countries Line Up to Sign Toxic Deal, Warren Leads Call to Reject TPP
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/02/03/countries-line-sign-toxic-deal-warren-leads-call-reject-tpp

Ten Reasons Why the TPP Must Be Defeated byBernie Sanders
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/12/31/ten-reasons-why-tpp-must-be-defeated

Worse Than We Thought': TPP A Total Corporate Power Grab Nightmare
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/11/05/worse-we-thought-tpp-total-corporate-power-grab-nightmare

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:56 PM

69. I have not been proud of DU much lately....

but I am proud that as of now, this OP has not received any recs....

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:05 AM

70. It's not good

Global corporate colonialism uproots local, sustainable, self-determined business, often through violence and oppression in collusion with governments, stripping resources, freedoms and rights from people.
The second ugly prong of contemporary "trade agreements", is that they serve to hide hordes of wealth through shell companies, like the Panama Papers is making evident.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-winship/panama-papers-offer-more_b_9688186.html

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:26 AM

71. If you really cared about the worlds poor

You would stop supporting a candidate that bombs them into misery at every vote . Preach it to the wind , the excessive guilt factor you are trying for is beyond contemptable and is ludicrous in it's assertion .

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:37 AM

73. No. I think the Western middle class is in the top 80% to 95% globally, not the top 1%.



As liberals, shouldn't we be equally concerned about the other human beings on our planet?

Of course we should. And if we don't, nobody will because conservatives certainly are not going to be concerned with poor people anywhere.

Shouldn't we be willing to share the wealth and the jobs and the industries with other countries and peoples?

Should people with more be willing to share with people who have less? That's a pretty good definition of 'liberal'.

We have been very privileged...and like the silver spoon portion of our society, most of that good fortune has been an accident of birth rather than something we have earned.

Winning the 'birth lottery' (witness the Donald) says a lot about your prospects in life. If you or I had been born in Bangladesh or Nigeria, our life prospects would be significantly diminished.

Trade agreements in spite of their ugly local side effects are good for the worlds populations.

I don't know that it is 'trade agreements' themselves. Few of the really poor countries in south Asia or Africa or the rest of the world have trade agreements with Western countries unless you count belonging to the WTO as a 'trade agreement'.

You could make the case that trade, in general, has contributed to the increasing incomes of the worlds poorest 70%. That would not have surprised FDR. Increased global prosperity was one of the reasons he wanted to promote international trade after WWII.

The problem is not disruption due to trade agreements, it's the failure of the social safety net including job training and housing/food assistance.

True. That is why progressive countries can trade 2 to 3 times as much as the US and have stronger unions and middle classes than the US has. They provide the safety nets, progressive taxes, business regulation, etc. that FDR provided to the US.

We shouldn't be trade isolationists any more than we should be political isolationist.

True indeed. Trump and Cruz are classic republican isolationists like Coolidge and Hoover of the pre-FDR era. They love walls and tariffs; they want to break our international agreements; withdraw from international organizations, etc. Basically they are the opposite of what FDR was trying to accomplish.

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Response to pampango (Reply #73)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:13 AM

79. Yeah but there's so many ways to measure that it gets meaningless

We're pretty clearly fantastically rich by Global South standards, but where exactly we stand depends on whether you are counting by earner, by household, or by household per capita income. There are arguments for or against each.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:38 AM

100. This is a national election with international implications but, there is NO NEED, at this time, to

compare/contrast us with the rest of the world. Trying to lay some guilt trip on us for what good fortune we have managed to maintain from the 1%INTERNATIONAL THIEVES.

They are the ones PLAYING THE GAME.

NOT THE MIDDLE CLASS.

I really do not understand the point of this OP in regards to GD-P.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:53 AM

103. Yes, we should be concerned about other human beings


NO, FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS ARE NOT GOOD FOR ALL THE WORLDS POPULATION.

Free trade agreements allow for far too many people to be exploited. Just google free trade + human trafficking.

If we truly believed that we should be concerned about the economic well being of other human beings on our planet- we should be supporting Fair Trade, not Free Trade.

Until as a nation we do that, your argument is pointless.

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