2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Now, let's go beat those Republicans.
SandersDem
(592 posts)it is not over.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)She recognizes that we need to turn our attention against the Republicans.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Just wow! Talk about divisive. I guess we have disbanded already. How does this post make people who are still in the trenches, still donating, still supporting Sanders feeling?
Autumn
(45,056 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)That makes no sense at all! None!
Autumn
(45,056 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)You may have a point and I may agree or disagree with it but really, you took a wrong turn doing this in GDP. It is just flat out wrong!
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)And yes, that includes BOTH sides. We don't all have to learn to sing the same tune this afternoon or anything - but ending the hateful garbage dump this forum has become would be a good thing.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)We need to defeat Trump in November.
Also, I love Maru!
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,920 posts)DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)Thank you Autumn
As you pointed out to someone else, no one is saying to stop supporting your candidate of choice, you're simply asking for civility.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)"You can ask President Trump his agenda, that might be special."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1792943
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)These posts greeted me in response to my post downthread which said:
Not a purge. A call for civility.
An end to the vitriolic smears against Democrats on a site for Democrats. And before you ask YES I think that vitriol against Bernie should stop as well.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1794354
and
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1795625
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Some of this stuff has been over the top...good to stop it.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)No point in it. There are no undecideds here (and I have a huge number of Hillary acolytes on Ignore, anyway). I'm never voting for Hillary, regardless. So what would be the point?
Time to re-Trash GD: P.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Let's just go have a cold one.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)If you close this forum now, I suspect that the Bernie Group members, who compose most of DU, will be slowly (or rapidly) drumed off Du or will leave for Jackpineradicals.org on their own.
Peregrine Took
(7,413 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)We should quit trying to change Hillary supporters minds and concentrate on getting Bernie elected. Have any of us changed one single Hillary supporters mind here on DU?
brer cat
(24,559 posts)in both camps. The undecided voters that made up their minds here were probably pushed rather than pulled.
I appreciate your effort to make the remainder of the primary season more civil. Perhaps eliminating GDP will stop some of the more confrontational threads.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)I too will continue to support Bernie, but I like what you said here.
Logical
(22,457 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)If it's the former, I see absolutely nothing "divisive" about it (perhaps you can explain what I so clearly missed).
If your referencing the OP, I think the word you were looking for is "Disheartening" or "Disappointing"
Scuba
(53,475 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)It feels like a transition to me.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)DU is far from being on the front lines of democracy, like it used to be, back in early 2000... but it does work great as a place to refine and define concepts and ideas. I agree that the rancor needs to be diminished (it'll never end... nature of politics), but what your pushing is going to silence all legitimate discussion about Bernie outside of the Bernie group.
It's using a guided missile to take out a fly.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)enlightenment
(8,830 posts)Some are so eager for the purge of Sanders supporters to begin in earnest that they're drooling a bit.
hasn't this already been happening?
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Disaster of a candidate.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)Pushing 60 and can't think of a more damaged or damaging candidate in memory, Democrat or Republican.
Favors outsourcing and globalism, favors wars and sending immigrant children home into the arms of death, responsible for Obama's biggest international misstep and, to some degree, the formation of ISIS.
Disreputable, untrustworthy, and facing possible charges.
Good grief, what the hell is wrong with us?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I don't know what the hell is wrong with us.
Damaged and damaging are the two words associated with this mess.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)He will and so many of us, certainly myself, will lose posting privileges, I had grown most fond of you.
Goodbye!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I was just about to log off and use the remaining minutes I have on my Obama-phone to use for phone banking PA. (poorly named by the media given that he didn't even initiate the program, nonetheless, it is all I have and am glad to have it)
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...will be purged. I will probably lose my posting priveleges eventually, too.
There are other places online where Bernie supporters are congregating. Hope we see you elsewhere once we're killed off.
senz
(11,945 posts)Thank you.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)a continuation of the establishment. Millions and millions hate the R and D establishments. Trump is counter-establishment, so he says. It's going to be really close, HRC is not a landslide shoe-in IMO.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It's going to be close, and we will get who we deserve.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)And, we vote on hackable computers in many, many places...
It's a tragedy all around if we can't get Bernie in to the White House, and if we don't we better fight to radically reform how we vote.
Hell, even if we somehow DO get Bernie in to the White House we better fight to radically reform how we vote.
LOTS of changes and improvements need to be made to make our country a more transparent, open, and fair democracy. Lots.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)easily in America because of all of the entrenched politicans and those feeding at the public money trough, something they will not give up, and then all of the really big money invested interests, and then the MIC who wants continuous wars for $$$$$'s, and the rest of the herd.
senz
(11,945 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)Apart from the obvious repeal of Citizens United...
we need to :
Abolish Electoral College asap.
Abolish Computerized voting machines and go back to PAPER ballots only, to be hand counted and verified.
Same day, Open Primaries by ballot, no caucuses.
Abolish "delegates" of any stripe.
Nominations are determined solely by voters.
Just for starters...
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)But the real purge starts when the owners of the site declare that the primary is over (whether its over or not). At that point, the 'losers' are invited to:
1. Leave
2. Toe the line (by staying silent, usually - though there will be more calls for loyalty oaths)
Failing to adequately do 2. results in 1. - usually with a boot up the ass and a gleeful grave dance by the 'winners'.
I've been around DU for a long time. It's nasty.
I have read through this thread and still don't understand why Autumn is requesting that Skinner call it. Civility isn't going to magically happen afterward; indeed, all that will happen is a digital bloodbath. Those that are left will either be on-board with the candidate or they will be silent - but silence isn't necessarily civil in the minds of those who know they cannot speak without repercussions.
It's not something to look forward to, certainly.
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)An end to the vitriolic smears against Democrats on a site for Democrats. And before you ask YES I think that vitriol against Bernie should stop as well.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Or pro-fracking. Or pro-private-prisons. Or pro-Wall Street.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)And, BTW, why is a Bernie supporter calling to be purged? What did I miss?
Response to pdsimdars (Reply #162)
Aerows This message was self-deleted by its author.
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)Very nice and concise!
senz
(11,945 posts)Thank you thank you thank you.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)that is willing protect and expand SS and avoid people who are ready to do studies or whatever the hell to "slow down" the effects of fossil fuels on our fragile environment.
TBF
(32,047 posts)just what I would expect from the campaign of She Who Must Be Obeyed.
Is the nomination period over? Do we have a candidate? Or are the rules being rewritten now? If so, let's have a big post from the admins telling us so and we can all make our choices as to whether we need to be here.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Are good people, it's the right wing trolls that have taken over this board that need to be purged. Anyone who is not one of the trolls has nothing to worry about.
peace13
(11,076 posts)If not she has some scary supporters!
G_j
(40,366 posts)with Obama and Clinton.. Anyone remember? I don't, but I'm curious.
peace13
(11,076 posts)I don't even remember people questioning that it should be called.
G_j
(40,366 posts)sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)the PUMAs were in full voice and there were a lot of calls to end the the primaries forum early. I can't remember when the admins finally did it but I think it was before she conceded in June.
apcalc
(4,463 posts)Continued until they were all concluded.
Hillary had the popular votes, he had the pledged delegates. When she realized the supers were going for him , she conceded. She then asked her supporters to support him, nominated him at the convention. She was very gracious.
merrily
(45,251 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)I remember that she set up a press conference to concede and failed to show. I don't know how many days it was before she met with Obama and then did in fact speak to the people.
peace13
(11,076 posts)If so why would you post this?
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)We need to be united in order to defeat the likes of Donald Trump and the Republican party.
oasis
(49,376 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)issues languish by the wayside and there is no discussion of the problems facing us.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Perhaps you should take a time out from hosting the Sanders group. I say that respectfully.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)Do you think that anything we do is worse than what the republicans will say?
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)will say. And what we criticize her on is her own actions and words. Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable for some. Here's an honest question for you. Do you think arguing with Hillary supporters here on this forum will change any minds at all?
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)could be started.
The Bernie Sanders campaign is about fighting the establishment. Speaking out is foundational and the first step in fighting against the big machine establishment.
You're talking about quelling opinion and dissent, which makes absolutely no sense.
demwing
(16,916 posts)I let it rest in deference to the Bernie Group, now seems like a good time to start posting again...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1277
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)She has done a lot of stuff behind the scenes that no one knows about. She has poured her heart and soul for Bernie.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Or possibly head on over to the Hill Camp because I don't think it's working for her over here! Please don't taze me bro, but with friends like this........
Autumn
(45,056 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)There is no arguing with many and no point to it. But you posting this while hosting the Bernie group is out of line. The least you could have done was bring it up for discussion in the group. That is just wrong.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)You may have refrained from arguing for the most part, others have not.
peace13
(11,076 posts)You put this out here so that people who disagree and speak out will be subject to hides and call outs from the Hill camp? In my mind this is a disbanding of the group. You are suggesting what? That there will be no more discussion about Sanders in GDP or in the Bernie group. Please clarify!
Autumn
(45,056 posts)No this is in no way a disbanding of the group. of course there will be discussion about Sanders in GDP and in the Bernie group. This is not over by a long shot. Bernie is staying in this race and it is up to us to work and support him and get him elected. I upped my donation this morning.
peace13
(11,076 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)The Populist Reform Group.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1277
The group all but died when Bernie announced, but that was fine, Bernie deserves the focus. Time to kick it back in gear...
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)something in a public forum, perhaps that thing should not be posted at all anyway.
Posting something that is seen by all but can be commented on by only some is divisive and creepy.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Never had a hide or block. Three weeks ago I had two hides in a matter of hours. On one I was vindicated down thread but of course could not comment or have it removed. The other was something that was nothing. Boom. Lucky for you if it never happened to you. As far as the Clinton group goes, I believe that it holds the record for the most blocked people. I believe a precedent was set and now we are being asked to calm down and join in the fun. As far as a private group goes, they are all open unless a person becomes 'disruptive' in accordance with the host.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)beam me up scottie (BMUS).
She's a favorite target of alert stalkers, but we're lucky to have her back. If you think things are bad now, wait until Skinner caves to the whiners (e.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910112) and then you'll really see some grade-school behavior around here.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Totally UNDemocratic.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Couldn't agree more.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)We've been discussing the Clintons.
Are you done with Sanders? Then consider dropping out as a host.
And of course, thanks for your past support.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)some democrats and no I have no plans to step down.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)What is it that you are referring to when you ask Skinner to "call it"?
peace13
(11,076 posts)It's a ruthless bunch and a problem. If you could see the folks you were arguing with you wouldn't waste your breath. Pope gate, stripper dollars, he looked cross eyed at her during the debate, those are accusations made by reasonless people. It is genius because it is defenseless, especially if you have to be concerned about hides and such. There is no de powering it or stopping it. If Skinner is OK with this kind of activity then there is only so much we can do. IMO it would be better to have a standard response when the beast starts slinging feces. In the old days we used to just let it drop. When an OP is built for reaction just let it drop. I don't know that that is the answer here but something like that could work. I can't imagine trying to defend Bernie at every turn here. You must be exhausted.
After my hides and block I realized that you can't fight a fight that isn't built on reason. Take care!
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)once Bernie drops out of the race. The target will shift, but the tactics won't.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)I'm fond of my fellow Bernie supporters
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Bernie will have more clout to have his (and our) issues talked about if he takes it to the convention. And despite sneering references being made about the Indictment Fairy, Hillary is in peril. Even if the DOJ doesn't have the guts to prosecute, an FBI recommendation to pursue charges will be deadly, for her and for us, in November. I'd rather meet that threat with a strong back-up plan.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)redwitch
(14,944 posts)Very disappointed with yesterday's result but it ain't over til it's over.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)should have worded it personally for you.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Response to Autumn (Reply #13)
TBF This message was self-deleted by its author.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I'm a Hillary supporter, and I find these threads tiresome.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)And on it will go, on Dramaqueen Underground.
woodsprite
(11,911 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)More fun to watch and see who wants to stir up trouble.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)It was considered bad form to post duplicates again and again.
There are at least three of them that I've seen today,
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)Once upon a time or ever.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)If Bernie throws in the towel, and that happens before the Convention, we will all officially be up a creek. I think we should be talking about alternatives to Hillary, not forming a wagon around her. Hillary already has a dozen arrows in her, and let's continue to work to make sure she isn't by some perverse fluke coronated as the party's candidate.
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)and talk about FEMA camps and death panels.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)that Hillary violated the terms of her signed classified information agreement. That should be it - she'll release her delegates and the party poohbahs determine at the Convention who to appoint them to. The AG will run out the clock, and Obama will pardon her just as Bill pardoned his disgraced CIA Director John Deutch. Everyone from the President down should be really pissed at her for putting us through this.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)Voting to disband this seems like more than a one person call. How about an OP asking people's opinions? Oh.....let Skinner do it even though he already has stated the rules. Speechless!
Blanks
(4,835 posts)And a whole 'nother thing to use Bernie's campaign as an excuse to trash Hillary.
Folks should continue to talk him up, but it's hurting the future of the Democratic Party to trash what is likely to be the future leader of the party.
Of course that goes both ways. Even if Clinton wins the nomination (which is extremely likely at this point) we all still want Sanders as a voice on the national scene for Democratic Party issues.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)in ANY way!
Do your own job for your dear leader. We ARE trying to protect the Dem Party.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)in every season...
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)her on it. You have to admit there are many republican plays in her book.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)the vitriol here needs to stop....and it won't happen while there isn't a call made for who we should coalesce around.
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)That needs to stop.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Pretty sure you don't think it's one sided!
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)the Republican contest which everybody says is such a horse race?
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Silver's site has an interesting slant today imho. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-no-ronald-reagan/
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)twitter account posting one attack after another against Bernie.
PDittie
(8,322 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)not subject to democratic rule.
I do wish, however, it had more Democratic rule.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)I hope that both sides here at DU can turn to the national campaign. Trump will be more difficult to defeat than most realize. We need to begin focusing on the task now.
jillan
(39,451 posts)reached out to the Bernie supporters from Hillary AND her supporters.
There is too much vitriol right now to wrap this up.
Including this:
Seems like there is still too much fight left on both sides to call it.
And I guarantee the replies to this very post will be further proof of that.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)are we not supposed to advocate for our candidate, who is still running? and how do we advocate without calling attention to the differences between them?
its hillary's fault she is such a weak candidate, not ours. i will not abandon bernie as long as he is fighting for us.
and if anyone risks dividing the party and causing irreparable harm, it is her and her corrupt machine.
sorry, autumn. i like and respect you, but i will not kiss the queens ring. not now, not ever
Autumn
(45,056 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)It will be epic
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)look like a walk in the park.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 04:20 PM - Edit history (1)
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)is the anti-HRC dreck.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)if HRC is the presumed nominee.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)and ask Manny what happened when he said he wouldn't vote for Hillary. That was well before the primary voting started.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)Which I don't think is entirely true, but I think that was the rationale -- not merely describing their own vote.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)It is what it is.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)Revoked on Nov 4, 2015
Reason Posted a thread urging DU members to sign a pledge stating that they will not vote for the Democratic nominee for president if the nominee is someone other than their chosen primary candidate.
You're right that he didn't comment on the article and that's why his banning was a partisan ban, but that's not the way the admins see it.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Melissa G
(10,170 posts)Bernie is at 50 % nationally. Hillary is challenged on so many fronts and underwater in her numbers. I am amazed and a bit disappointed that you posted this.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)I'm amazed and disappointed too.
demmiblue
(36,841 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)love. I don't think calling it now will help. I suspect that a number of people here will leave when then they are required to "sit down and shut up." I personally can't stand quietly by and watch our hopes for a return to democracy and a fair economy fly away. There is still a lot of fighting to do and I plan on continuing long after the nomination. But I will be fighting for Democratic principles that are disparage by some here.
I feel if Skinner calls it, it will be the ultimate slap in the face for the progressives here.
PS: Autumn, you have my greatest respect.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)From what I an reading, unwelcome guests. Know what I mean?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)If you were guests, you would have been thrown out some time ago for shitting on the carpet.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)People come, people go.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Although your tag is Autumn, you really are a Summer soldier and a Sunshine Patriot.
Thomas Paine: "These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."
Thanks for nothing!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I don't know who you think you are, but you are not in any way, shape or form insulting Autumn like that.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that was a bullshit sideswipe on your character and I don't care for that.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)we are unwelcome guests at that.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)When I see bullshit, I'm not going to call it caviar. It isn't in my nature.
I don't care who owns the house.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)will be spending the next four years in the photo group. LOL.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'll be in cooking and baking.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I might join you there in Cooking and Baking. I like to do that, too. . And, of course, there's the gardening forum which is also something I enjoy.
I'm really about politicked out, at least on the national level. How we vote in Alaska in presidential elections is so inconsequential as to be meaningless, so I'm not sure why I even bother to get involved. State elections are another matter, and that's probably where I'll be turning my attention.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Speaking of gardening, I saw some CRAZY huge vegetables and fruit grown up your way.
I've never seen anything like it! Mind you, I live down south and couldn't get cucumbers and squash to quit growing, but dang, I saw enormous tomatoes and other fruit grown up there!
Is it the soil, or maybe just the climate being cold? I know you probably won't have citrus (we give it away, here), but vegetables seem to love it where you are!
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)just north of here - four-pound carrots, 90-pound cabbages, kohlrabis as big as your head. I think it's the combination of really fertile soil, glacial minerals and 20 hours of daylight in the summer. You can almost literally watch stuff grow here. The veggie weigh-ins at the state fair are always a big deal.
My garden is pretty normal, though, although I do grow remarkable rhubarb. It's right next to the compost bin.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)A 4lbs. carrot!?
And excuse me, but DAMN that's a humongous cabbage. I LOVE cabbage. That thing nearly weighs as much as I do!
I would do my darndest though - fry up some bacon to get some delicious potlikker going, fry that bad boy up and YUM, tear into that. I chop it into wedges, that way it doesn't wilt and preserves a wonderful texture.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Pie?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Get the industrial sized grater!
Y'all make some seriously sized vegetables up there.
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)I can just imagine what that does for the pot crops.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)We disagree on certain things, but overall, your heart is in the right place.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)You too.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)we don't need to go there.
840high
(17,196 posts)Bernie has not dropped out.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)No one knows why he abandoned ship suddenly and rushed back to Vermont.
Shouldn't he be campaigning??
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)For those giving Autumn a hard time in this thread.
In 2008, at this point in the primaries, I knew Hillary was probably not going to get the nom -- it was almost sure, even though she was closer to Obama then than Bernie is to her now.
But, I still supported her, I still donated to her.
Why?
Because it was important to me. Her campaign was important to me. I also was looking forward: to a possible cabinet post with Obama's Administration (which happened), to a possible Presidential run in 2016 (which is happening).
I also knew, as bitter as I sometimes was, that Hillary would support Obama after the dust settled, and so would I, as sad as I was that the first viable woman running for President didn't get the nom.
So, props to you, Autumn, for looking forward to November, but also being loyal to your candidate. Well done, you.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)the "usual suspects" even though I didn't rec the thread.
Some of the people here being rude are what wrecks this thread and it does no one any good.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)but there are some people throwing horseshit around here like it is going out of style and it needs to f***-ing stop.
There is no need to cast aspersions at each other, we will need each other going forward.
insightdeluxe
(32 posts)most rational lefties know hillary is a flawed candidate. theres no point in dems trying to overlook or obsficate that in the primary process. hillary has to answer to all on the political left 1st.
but the dnc faithful better hope hills ge campaign wont solely be im not trump.
Response to Autumn (Original post)
radical noodle This message was self-deleted by its author.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)feel the Bern!
Autumn
(45,056 posts)By Jove I think you've got it.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)RandySF
(58,768 posts)MelissaB
(16,420 posts)I've never seen DU like this, but I have seen other websites go down for less.
Fewer posters, fewer dollars...
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)The only reason I have chosen to post here rather than in a purely Sanders echo chamber, is not for the love of being derided and insulted on a constant basis by people of vile sentiment that lack empathy for those not comfortably fed and housed. I do so for those that will be horribly affected by neo-liberal policies, my people, my poor and working poor class people, that are struggling for their lives. I refuse to give the Corporate voice yet one more Blue Nation Review type source willingly, let alone call for such! My people need as many voices in the wilderness as possible!
It may be easy to wish, to ask, or even beg for this call to disarm, to condemn yet more voices to the silence unheard, (as is already the case in the media proper) for one in a more financially comfortable demographic that will not be affected nearly as much by neo-liberal austerity, job outsourcing, or even more cruelty by war that will turn people's children into cripples or leave them with permanent mental and emotional problems, if not death itself. Not to mention the millions of brown people, the bulk of which will be innocent civilians that will die via cluster bomb laden carpet bombing.
I write here because I write on behalf of my people, those that do not enjoy comfortable lives and whose lives WILL be drastically and negatively affected. Those whose poor children will comprise the bulk of the wounded and dying soldiers sent to do the neocons bidding.
For some, this is not a "sport", not a game to walk away from because one grows bored when the "team" loses some points in the "game". For some this is an important fight, not for purity, idealism or a chance to post pretty words that later prove hollow, for some this is a life altering, life threatening fight for a chance to survive and thrive, even as the suburban "activists" shrug and say, "well, at least I gave it a bit of a shot for a time, oh well, my favorite show is on TV and/or the lawn needs mowing later."
There are many people that read this site that never post, I do NOT expect a small group of personality cultists to be swayed HERE by anything I write, but I do expect some that just read MAY, just as some may see the black hearts of the loud (hopefully not the majority of) Clinton vitriolic hatred to be exposed as they deride and insult me.
I write here for a reason, an important one to me, and yet you want me and mine to go quietly into that dark night. Long shot or not, the primary is not over that should be all that matters, so no, it is not time to "call the race for Clinton" nor call for all for the mass PPR's you are advocating for, wittingly or unwittingly.
to some of us in this country, the long shot is far more important than you apparently realize. I will spell out who I write for, those below the class of most of the posters here. The demographic that birthed me, and which will envelope me in death.
So many in the party leadership and the party overall are comfortable and this place of comfort has made them cold to the reality that is daily life for a great many people.
They make many assumptions from ivory towers of middle class or wealth with little awareness it would seem of those that are lower middle class (quickly falling into poverty even tho they work harder with multiple McJobs than they did before lower middle class meant poverty).
As to the poor - they seem completely oblivious to them and convince themselves that welfare reform didn't harm anybody, I know Hill and Bill believe this, but it did and does to this day I assure you, it was not a pragmatic solution to a "welfare queen" problem handled well because a Democrat helped to all but destroy it. It will not be a brave pragmatic solution to "earned benefit queens" they will likely label SS beneficiaries, as they collude yet again with republicans to begin to shred these last vestiges of the new deal and great society.
They cause the poor to become poorer still while so many in the party applaud the politicians responsible. Their applause and support are what make them just as responsible as their political idols.
They think this is a game, or a sport with my team and their team, not realizing or caring that the ball that is tossed around in this sport is a child that only gets to eat at school and will soon lose that food, or the ball is an elderly widow or widower that can only afford to take their medicine every other day or maybe will freeze to death in a small flat during a winter they could not pay their gas bill (this happens ALREADY where I live).
There are many other balls tossed around for their sport and amusement, too many to list them all here, some are dead or dying, some are living under a tarp in a vacant lot hoping the cops don't roust them or the suburban teenagers don't decide to slum it and amuse themselves by assaulting them while laughing and taunting the "bum" for cell phone footage. Some of these comfortable people give advice to "the poor that in fact do OK" as a famous DLC Democrat once said. One of the Conservative DU posters once even suggested dumpster diving as a viable and reasonable option.
Too many of them applaud policies and politicians that make all these problems worse, they need to get it through their heads, many are dying and more will die of poverty, this is no game and the poor aren't doing OK, they are doing worse all the time with less help available all the time.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Arguing with DUers changes not one single mind here. We should post about Bernie and where he stands on the issues all we can. Here on DU at our beloved Jackpine and in other places as well. The time spent defending him from nasty baseless attacks from Hillary supporters here is a waste of time ,we change no minds here.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)implore you, retract your call for changing this very real online media source to effectively become yet another Brock propaganda network site like the Blue Nation Review. As well as the following actions after such a change that will result in massive purges of those not towing the Clinton line (an unintended consequence in your mind when thinking of doing this, I am sure, but a very real next step occurrence, be that known to you or not)
WASHINGTON Hillary Clinton ally David Brock is acquiring a media outlet, sources involved in the negotiation and sale of the site tell The Huffington Post.
True Blue Media, a newly formed company incorporated by Brock, has acquired progressive news website Blue Nation Review. BNRs previous owner, MOKO Social Media Limited, will retain a 20 percent stake in the new entity while Brock will hold the remaining 80 percent equity balance. The sale was finalized Monday night.
Peter Daou, digital media strategist for Clintons 2008 campaign, will serve as the new CEO of True Blue Media.
Please, do not make me see you in such a horrible light, after considering you a beacon of light for so many years.
If you wish me on my knees literally, I will do so with head bowed, you may not see it, but I am always true to my word and I will do so if that would change your mind.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Hell no, we won't go!
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)would have zero effect to help those I care about, much lower readership, and only visited by Sanders supporters that need not read my words to Grok anything as they are already there.
If it is "called for Clinton" by Skinner at Autumn's and other's request before I get a chance to exchange posts with you again, likely within hours now that a well known and well respected in-site Bernie Supporter that Runs the Sanders group.
Goodbye my friend! perhaps my journal will still be available after I am tomb stoned (not really sure how that works)
haikugal
(6,476 posts)We're in it to win it. Bernie didn't get his ass handed him yesterday. She did what she had to do (with many irregularities) to continue and Bernie did well. We still have a race and Bernie is the better candidate. I don't know why anyone would lose heart and call it now.
Not me. If they do a DKOS here they will regret it in so many ways...I think they're already feeling it. If they do we'll find a work around, it's what we do.
Keep writing. Keep speaking out!
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)For months, the Bernie Sanders group at DU has been my refuge, the people there my fellow travelers. If this is how the "leadership" of the Sanders group feels, I have to question why they are there at all, and what the group has really been for since it was set up. Is it really just a big Trojan Horse????
At the very least, Autumn, this post should have been in the Sanders group before it was unleashed on GDP. That is, if you're a genuine Sanders supporter, and have any regard for the rest of us you've been pretending to be on board with.
So fucking disappointed.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Hopeless.
dchill
(38,471 posts)the Bernie group, or all of DU, is big enough to cause appreciable harm to the Clinton machine. Now, one Bully with a Bullhorn, that's significant.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I think we can certainly call this Skinner's BOARD. So shall we call it Skinner rather than Underground?
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)What is everybody so afraid of? Oh, wait, I think I know.
Most of us don't come here to persuade anyone to change sides, but for information, to get it and exchange it. And THAT'S what some would like to shut down the flow of, especially about certain topics such as the ones the FBI is interested in.
Well isn't that patriotic? And from a host of the Sanders group? Wow.
I've written it numerous times this week, but one more "true colors".
If Skinner does as you ask, I will still get information and will still discuss Hillary but it won't be here, and I won't be back. But I think and I hope that Skinner has better sense than that.
We will see, as we wait for more to reveal who they are.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)But has any defense of Bernie in the many recent OPs that have slandered and mocked him, take for instance the Rome trip, done one ounce of good? Has it changed a single mind?
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)You are considering Hillary posters on this site who haven't changed their minds.
Many others read this board, some who post rarely and some who never post. We don't have any way of knowing how many minds have changed in that group. I'm sure some have, and that it makes a difference for some statements and policies to be challenged here, on the record, for all to see.
So I very much disagree with this OP.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)I "Trash Canned" all but a very few of those Rome posts, they didn't bother me a bit! I looked to see what kind of absurd bull was being said, and bang! in the can they went.
The other side only ever posts talking points and random slanderous nonsense, so I miss nothing by trashing those posts. Occasionally if nobody else did, I will post something straightening out a sneakily misleading lie. But after that's done once, anything more is a waste of time.
That isn't new, I've been doing that with mostly those same posters for a LONG time, even before the primary. It's like a bigger version of "Ignore". Then too, a person, such as yourself, can "Trash Can" this whole forum. There's no need to call for it to be shut down for others who do not agree with you.
I don't see the problem. I think this was unnecessary and destructive. Now, people like Dragonfli (who I was sad to see said goodbye above) may not come back. (smh)
tularetom
(23,664 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)spoken for all of us. She should have spoken personally for herself. This is not the end of Bernie. We are going as far as he wants to. We are fighting for issues Clinton will never touch or even consider that is why we are his supporters.
840high
(17,196 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)Let's go 840high...we have a scrappy candidate to support!
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)OP definitely doesn't speak for me either.
It's misguided in its totality, but it definitely should have been done in the Sanders group first, and should not have requested action that will affect all Sanders DUers, not just herself.
It's really a shocking thing to do. Very patronizing.
Very much agree that I'm with Sanders through the whole process to the convention, and as far as he wants to go.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)good rest for some time. What you say just sounds like you are exhausted.
yourout
(7,527 posts)Till then we fight on
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)MARK IT ZERO, DUDE
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Primo medicinal brownies. That's one of the oh so many reasons why I support Bernie ( because there isn't a happy person eating a brownie)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I'm not ready to pack it in yet - I'd like to vote, first, I think Bernie is going to perform spectacularly in my state - but I do agree that we're gonna need to come together to support the nominee and I acknowledge who that nominee is likely to be.
I think most of the Sanders people are going to need to get there organically, and it will take a little time. It probably goes without saying that insulting and "neener neener"-ing them (not meaning you, obviously) isn't the best way to achieve that goal.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)world to try to convince a Hillary supporter that Bernie is better on every single issue and he is more honest and trustworthy. It's a waste of time and bandwidth .
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And like I said, I'd like to vote, too.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)I ain't gonna do that shit no more, it's too difficult when your mobility challenged. Let me assure you, nothing is ever going to be more satisfying in your life than that vote you cast for Bernie, knowing he really looks out for the needs of the people and he believes that the needs of the people should come first.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)You know I respect you, we've had our ups and downs but I think somehow we've made it work.
I certainly hope I still get to see your posts, and I'm impressed at the dedication you have for your candidate.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)you'll see my posts until you put me on ignore. I'm sticking with Bernie, no qualifiers.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Haha, thanks Autumn.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Of course the bullshit is knee high (or higher) around here, and of course it's no fun to wade through the filth in order to put forth a few truths, counter a few lies, and keep hope alive for any kind of fairness, justice, compassion and decency in this country.
I don't like it either. Many of my favorite DU commenters are gone -- some have trashed GDP, some split for jpr, some are banned or "on review" for bogus reasons and sheer vindictiveness, and some just lie low.
So when it's disgusting beyond belief, you take a vacation. I'm going to try to stick it out to put in a good word for the only candidate worth supporting in this race or try to counter some of the lies, but even I've had to put the worst on ignore.
But don't ask him to close the whole thing out yet, Autumn.
👓 ☮ 👓 ☮ 👓 ☮ THINK OF THECHILDRENLURKERS! ☮ 👓 ☮ 👓 ☮ 👓
Autumn
(45,056 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)That's a really bad idea; it stifles democracy; democracy is about debate, dissent, factionalism.
Once that's shut down, and we have to toe the "party line," democracy is extinguished.
You say you want to continue to work to nominate and elect Sanders. Yet, you want Skinner
to "call it." Call what? Call for a cessation of criticism of Hillary must be the answer.
Never did I think it was possible to convince a Hillary supporter on DU to switch to Bernie. Rather, I viewed
this forum as a vehicle for sharing insights and info gained or gleaned about the candidates. Then posters
could disseminate that info on social media, as they wished. Democracy thrives on information.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Criticize Hillary, there is a hell of a lot that she should be criticized for, but realize where we are. There is very little criticism of Bernie here, it's all directed at the Bernie supporters.
amborin
(16,631 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)and no facts allowed to counter the noise?
You want that?
Nah, you don't want that.
You want a vacation, a massage, music, poetry, a trip to the shore, a trip to the lake, light flickering off water and dancing through treetops, fine cuisine, fine wine, the laughter of children, live drama performances, a rode trip, a cruise, a great novel, a good cry, a good night's sleep, reconnection with old friends, redecorate the living room ... and you can take it from there.
Get what you need, Autumn.
Bernie can wait (we'll take care of him.)
haikugal
(6,476 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)The petals tremble
on the yellow mountain rose
roar of the rapids
~ Basho
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)If Skinner was going to ever "call it" like Kos or something then he would've done so already.
Math is math.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)My two cents, and thanks to anyone who takes my opinion here in consideration.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)its time to unify against Trump and the republicans.
Response to Autumn (Original post)
TBF This message was self-deleted by its author.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)TBF
(32,047 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)
Peregrine Took
(7,413 posts)Looks like somebody wants attention
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)I think you may have switched sides, perhaps without even realizing it yourself.
I base this on your OP, and on some of your recent posts; I qualify this by saying I
typically quickly skim posts and that raises the risk of misunderstanding content; so I
may be totally wrong. But how else make sense of calls to stop criticizing HRC and
to start criticizing Bernie Sanders.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Response to Autumn (Original post)
berni_mccoy This message was self-deleted by its author.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)And we NEVER agree on anything around here...
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Response to Autumn (Original post)
Rob H. This message was self-deleted by its author.
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)Provided we could still be supportive of our candidate, and keep to our group and follow the rules, the amount of wasted energy not spent on arguing could go to a great deal of good if this site moved on to the General Election.
Do we really want him to "call it"? I don't know, I'm not sure it matters.
If I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down, it's like "call it, Skinner. Or don't. I don't care, there's work to do, whatever."
Now, what's interesting to me is that some days ago, or weeks, Skinner changed his avatar from the H back to the DU.
I thought that to be a rather kind and thoughtful thing to do!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You and I both know the likely outcome. I've known for months. Even made a meaty post on the subject. It ain't done until there's a concession speech, though.
Though. If by "calling it" Skinner shuts down the GDP cesspit, and subsequently bans the trolls with 10+ hides, I might be convinced to go along with this plan. Hmmmm.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)when you say "Hillary supporters" do you mean people who actually support Hillary Clinton? if so, I think it's a ratio of 100:1.
If though you include people who simply hate Bernie for whatever reason and don't seem to give a good goddamn about Hilalry beyond her role facilitating that, then the lead narrows to 20:1 or so.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Response to Autumn (Reply #262)
TBF This message was self-deleted by its author.
MerryBlooms
(11,767 posts)I make a rare comment here in GD: P, but I've known for ages DU is not the place for real primary discussion or candidate promotion.
Don't resign as Group Host.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)lasttrip
(1,013 posts)Here is a vid for you.
Peace.
LT
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Thanks for the video
lasttrip
(1,013 posts)Peace.
LT
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Call that.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)In 2008, when Obama was this far along, it was called. We are just inflicting wounds on ourselves. Are we going to do it for days, weeks or months. The libels against Clinton are nasty, false and malicious and this needs to end.
There are going to be people who don't want to stop, but they need to stop trashing the candidates. All trashing should be prohibited. There are other sites not affiliated with Democratic Party where that crap can be indulged.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)I don't see that happening. Do you?
Autumn
(45,056 posts)it happening either. Could you imagine the hundred or so Hillary supporters sitting here chatting with each other after they get rid of the rest of us? That would be a gigantic snooze fest Posting is money for the site.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Skinner is not "calling it."
Good to see.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910112#post1
1. At this point it appears that the primary campaign is still going on.
I'm not worried. Eventually we will have a nominee, and it'll take a little time for people to adjust. But I have no doubt that the vast majority of DUers will be on board for the general election when the time comes.
Everyone knows where this is going, everyone understands what is at stake in the general election. It'll all be fine.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Glad I came back to this thread, to see this because I don't read ATA much anymore.
And since I can't reply there in ATA, a big thank you! to Skinner for letting the conversation continue.
Very glad to see this, it's as good of a boost as this thread was a downer.
delrem
(9,688 posts)And anticipate the delights of tomorrow, because David Brock's special online friends have several more treats coming!
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)It's time to stop using this site to post right wing conspiracy theories about Hillary. As long as we can still support Bernie on here I am fine with it.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Trump and his fascist party hope you don't!!!
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)If you are concerned.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)grntuscarora
(1,249 posts)And add a delete account function.
beaglelover
(3,466 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Like all those Millions of Democrats in California.
Raine
(30,540 posts)still_one
(92,136 posts)with Hillary supporters on DU, and focus on getting the vote out for Sanders
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)still_one
(92,136 posts)The OP has made it pretty clear what she meant in this thread here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1794436
It's a long thread, and it can be easily missed, and misinterpreted.
I believe it has been misinterpreted by some Hillary and Bernie supporters.
Keep in mind that the OP is a very strong Bernie supporter, so she is definitely not throwing the towel in, or asking any other Sanders supporters to give up
Raine
(30,540 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)Just wonderful how authoritarians want to shut it down before ALL the votes are cast or counted... so much like the Bush brigade in Florida in 2000
This is HRC in 2016. Strange evolution because back in 2008, she vowed to stay in the primary race through CA "because you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy!"
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)Autumn,
Nine states, thousands of miles, personal donations and four months away from my spouse
That is the tiniest of glimpses of what 2008 was like for me and still my then preferred candidate lost. I remember being so angry and disappointed, it sucked and I wanted every person who told me to fall in line to $#@! off!
I did just that, at least until my candidate said to stop looking in the past and to move forward. Im grateful for President Obama and indeed I did vote for him and in the end, Im so happy that I did.
Wherever you are, please accept my apologizes for the disagreement that we had. I remember what it felt like and also remember wishing then Senator Obamas supporters were kinder to the rest of us. I offer that to you.
Wishing you the best.
Firebrand Gary