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Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:12 PM

I'm Canceling My Subscription to Sunshine Patriot Thom Hartmann's Program

because of the stance he took today. It was the f'ing last straw.
What is a Sunshine Patriot?

Sunshine Patriot
A word used in the essay "The American Crisis" by Thomas Paine in winter 1776 during the uncertain times of the American revolution.

The word Sunshine Patriot refers to individuals who claim to fight against tyranny on the side of freedom, yet are unable to stick it out when the going gets tough or unfavorable.


I won't bore or infuriate you with everything he said and have to paraphrase because I am so disgusted and pissed off that I will not waste my time looking for ways to link to the show and find the exact moment when he made some servile statements. Here is the essence of it....

~ It's time to come together...Bernie is likely out of the running because the numbers are against him...Bernie says he will now go after the Super Delegates but that won't work out for him...There's not that much difference between Bernie and Hillary...Bernie started a MOVEMENT and the DNC will have to incorporate his ideas into the Democratic Platform...Hillary has become a progressive and will stay a progressive....and on and on ad nauseum...~

Translation:

TH is freaked about the supremes. That is always his argument. We HAVE to band together and vote for Hillary because if we don't the Supreme Court will be the same as it has been for the last couple of decades.

TH is telling his audience that we have to support the DNC's choice of candidate. They obviously know what is best for us. For all the times he has ranted against everything they have done to Sanders he sure flipped. Sunshine Patriot.

TH forgot about:

The DNC's dismal Debate Schedule--6 Debates for Hillary and Bernie; 25 Debates for Obama and Hillary.

The 'Data Breach'. Lawsuit still pending by Sanders against the DNC for refusing to release Bernie's voter data.

The Hillary Victory Fund.


All engineered by the DNC. And now Hartmann wants us to accept their choice and be good little democrats while espousing they will embrace the 'movement' Bernie started and Hillary will 'remain' a progressive? What tripe!!!! The record of the DNC accepting progressive movements is dismal and I don't see them changing or accepting anything from us---not now and not in the future.They are effictively alienating half of the party members.

Since 2009, the Democratic Party has lost 69 House seats, 13 Senate seats, over 900 state legislative seats and 12 governorships. Although most presidents’ political parties suffer losses in Congress, Republican gains under Barack Obama’s administration have been unprecedented. After the 2014 midterm elections, Democrats suffered so dramatically that the Democratic National Committee organized a task force to review how the party connects their core values with voters. While the rise of anti-establishment candidate Bernie Sanders should serve as a wake-up call, the Democratic establishment has not embraced his candidacy as a means to re-energize their voter base. Instead, leaders of the Party have fallen in line behind Hillary Clinton, who only further alienates the types of voters they should be courting. Denying Bernie access to his own voter rolls. That tension spilled into the open on Friday after the DNC cut off Sanders from a crucial voter database, saying the campaign wrongly accessed data gathered by Hillary Clinton's team. Sanders filed suit in federal court Friday evening seeking to regain access to the voter data. http://observer.com/2016/02/if-sanders-loses-bernie-believers-will-take-the-dnc-down/


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/04/19/3770542/bernie-hillary-dnc-fundraising/
Sanders unveiled a new accusation this week, pointing to “extremely serious concerns” about Clinton’s joint fundraising activities with the DNC. A letter from his attorney laid out the issue: the joint fundraising structure allows Clinton to accept much larger individual donations than her campaign is legally allowed to receive, and that money is then being used to send out mailers and online ads to raise money from smaller donors who can contribute directly to the campaign multiple times. The group has collected $33 million dollars so far.
“This is the type of mega, mega joint fundraising committee that we all feared would come into existence if McCutcheonwere ruled the wrong way, which it was,” said Craig Holman with Public Citizen. “It makes maximum use of the loose rules governing joint fundraising. They’re using big checks to set up a small donor fundraising campaign and turning over the small donors to the Hillary campaign while keeping the large ones for the party. It is permissible, but it’s offensive, and it should be illegal.”
Both Holman and Larry Noble with the Campaign Legal Center emphasized that it’s extremely unusual and possibly unprecedented for a party to raise so much money for a candidate before the general election.
“It shows the DNC has clearly taken sides before they even have a nominee,” said Holman. “There’s an obvious bias.”
Noble agreed. “They really are throwing their weight behind a particular candidate,” he said. “Their argument is usually that it helps the party generally, but the practical and legal reality is that it benefits Hillary Clinton. You just don’t expect this kind of thing to happen in the primaries.”
Noble added that even if there were a legal violation in Clinton’s fundraising — for example, exceeding limits for in-kind donations from the DNC to her campaign — the gridlocked Federal Elections Commissions will not do anything to put a stop to it.


As Ben Jealous pointed out recently, the DNC and Hillary are represented by the same attorney, Marc Elias. Conflict of Interest.

div class="excerpt"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Elias
Marc Elias
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Marc E. Elias is the general counsel for Hillary Rodham Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign.[1] He served as general counsel to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. Elias is a partner at the law firm Perkins Coie LLP.
He served as lead counsel for Senator Al Franken in the 2008 Minnesota Senate election recount and contest, the largest recount and contest in American history.[3] Elias represents the Democratic National Committee,
Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and Democratic Governors Association.[2] He has represented the leadership of the House of Representatives and U.S. Senate. Elias has testified before committees in both houses of Congress and before the Federal Election Commission on campaign finance.[4] Elias has worked on voting rights and redistricting lawsuits in Virginia, Ohio, Nevada, Minnesota, New York, Wisconsin, Texas, Florida and North Carolina.[5]


Trust them again? I am in it for Bernie. In for a penny--in for a pound.





136 replies, 16975 views

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Arrow 136 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm Canceling My Subscription to Sunshine Patriot Thom Hartmann's Program (Original post)
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 OP
whatchamacallit Apr 2016 #1
m-lekktor Apr 2016 #6
PowerToThePeople Apr 2016 #10
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #12
Flying Shoe Apr 2016 #115
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #120
Flying Shoe Apr 2016 #125
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #127
Flying Shoe Apr 2016 #135
amborin Apr 2016 #28
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #45
amborin Apr 2016 #78
snowy owl Apr 2016 #77
SusanCalvin Apr 2016 #102
sabrina 1 Apr 2016 #134
Trust Buster Apr 2016 #2
Loudestlib Apr 2016 #46
Flying Shoe Apr 2016 #116
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #3
boston bean Apr 2016 #5
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #7
boston bean Apr 2016 #11
JoePhilly Apr 2016 #15
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #16
ecstatic Apr 2016 #33
PyaarRevolution Apr 2016 #66
BreakfastClub Apr 2016 #94
Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #70
Joob Apr 2016 #81
nolawarlock Apr 2016 #90
senz Apr 2016 #96
workinclasszero Apr 2016 #27
ecstatic Apr 2016 #34
LuvLoogie Apr 2016 #56
workinclasszero Apr 2016 #60
jpb33 Apr 2016 #101
senz Apr 2016 #93
brer cat Apr 2016 #110
savalez Apr 2016 #118
workinclasszero Apr 2016 #24
JTFrog Apr 2016 #50
Skwmom Apr 2016 #4
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #19
Stallion Apr 2016 #8
99th_Monkey Apr 2016 #9
Dem2 Apr 2016 #13
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #29
Dem2 Apr 2016 #32
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #48
Stallion Apr 2016 #40
DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #14
EndElectoral Apr 2016 #17
Peregrine Took Apr 2016 #18
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #21
Stallion Apr 2016 #22
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #30
Rockyj Apr 2016 #136
xloadiex Apr 2016 #58
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #69
pdsimdars Apr 2016 #112
riversedge Apr 2016 #20
workinclasszero Apr 2016 #23
whatchamacallit Apr 2016 #26
Loudestlib Apr 2016 #47
JTFrog Apr 2016 #54
Loudestlib Apr 2016 #74
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #25
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #35
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #42
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #55
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #85
Art_from_Ark Apr 2016 #121
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #122
Ino Apr 2016 #62
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #87
TM99 Apr 2016 #86
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #123
tritsofme Apr 2016 #31
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #38
floriduck Apr 2016 #36
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #41
GoneFishin Apr 2016 #37
restorefreedom Apr 2016 #44
firebrand80 Apr 2016 #39
Stallion Apr 2016 #43
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #49
Stallion Apr 2016 #52
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #59
merrily Apr 2016 #68
Bohemianwriter Apr 2016 #51
TheProgressive Apr 2016 #53
bbgrunt Apr 2016 #97
merrily Apr 2016 #57
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #64
merrily Apr 2016 #67
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #71
merrily Apr 2016 #76
Fuddnik Apr 2016 #84
merrily Apr 2016 #98
Stallion Apr 2016 #72
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #73
merrily Apr 2016 #79
Art_from_Ark Apr 2016 #131
merrily Apr 2016 #133
Silver_Witch Apr 2016 #61
Doctor_J Apr 2016 #63
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #83
rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #108
islandmkl Apr 2016 #65
senz Apr 2016 #75
oregonjen Apr 2016 #91
senz Apr 2016 #92
LineReply .
RandySF Apr 2016 #80
senz Apr 2016 #95
LarryNM Apr 2016 #82
MisterP Apr 2016 #88
Stand and Fight Apr 2016 #89
Karma13612 Apr 2016 #99
jpb33 Apr 2016 #100
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #126
pdsimdars Apr 2016 #103
pdsimdars Apr 2016 #104
Billsmile Apr 2016 #105
Waiting For Everyman Apr 2016 #106
rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #107
BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #109
MisterP Apr 2016 #114
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #111
Corruption Inc Apr 2016 #113
basselope Apr 2016 #119
pdsimdars Apr 2016 #117
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #124
Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #128
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #129
Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #130
Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #132

Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:15 PM

1. "Hillary has become a progressive and will stay a progressive"

Holy shit that's some strong Kool Aid!

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:22 PM

6. jesus h christ.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:26 PM

10. Barf worthy indeed.

 



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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:26 PM

12. Yep. To paraphrase again ~It's what we want to see

in our candidates--the ability to adjust to the changes going on in the party~ or some such bull.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:07 PM

115. Shocking

I can't believe the degree to which he sold out! This election has really told us who our friends are in the media. It is a staggeringly short list.

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Response to Flying Shoe (Reply #115)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:24 PM

120. Yes, and our media is getting worse by the day. I did see Bill Press on FSTV today and he

is totally supporting Bernie to the bitter win or end. Welcome to DU and thanks for writing.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #120)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:26 PM

125. At least we have the internet

It is nice to know that more and more go to alternate online media sources to get a better source of information, if they can find the right places. Thank you very much for the warm welcome!

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Response to Flying Shoe (Reply #125)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:38 PM

127. My pleasure. I like your handle...reminds me of the man throwing his shoes at GWB

and I thought they should have given that guy a medal. I am still trying to get into reddit and Cenk and twitter but am a little frustrated....I get FSTV and LINK on DTV but love the 'giant library' of the interwebs.

Here is a nice welcome gift for you! (It's a baby bobcat!) They were rescued together after a forest fire!

Thanks for your reply!

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #127)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:54 PM

135. That is exactly the origin of the handle!

I'm glad someone gets the reference!

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:35 PM

28. unbelievable! and K&R thanks for posting this; it's shocking!

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Response to amborin (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:00 PM

45. Hey there Amborin! You know, when the 'real' progressives go mainstream it is

unnerving. God, I MISS Bill Moyers. He introduced us to Elizabeth Warren. Bill Press and Amy Goodman are hanging in because their hearts are progressive. Remember what they did to Kucinich? Lambs to a slaughter.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #45)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:44 PM

78. Hey Land of Enchantment! Yes, this is really putting people to the test and revealing their true

core!

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:43 PM

77. I don't believe it either but I'll keep watching Hartmann. He is informative. I don't agree always..

but that's okay. We don't have to agree on everything. He's still the best talker on radio.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:50 AM

102. Yeah, I do doubt that. nt

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 03:14 AM

134. Lol, where do they FIND these people? The talking point since NY was, same as it was after March 15

I even wrote an OP back then about it it was so ridiculous, that Bernie needs to pack it in etc. They are really getting desperate, there is no way she is anywhere near clinching the nomination. Far from it, she should have had it by now if the people wanted her. Hardly anyone knew Bernie when this started and yet he's only a little over 210 delegates behind her

He has eroded her lead of 324 after the Southern states and even after NY she hasn't made much of a dent in that erosion, just 29 delegates.

But the talking point is intended to depress enthusiasm. They think we are not 'on to them'. It's a revelation to see the low level of intelligence of some of these paid 'journalists'. Hell I would never have even tried to be a journalist, but looking at some of what comes for these people, I feel I could win the Pulitzer by comparison.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:16 PM

2. You want to cancel because he spoke the truth ? Putting him on "ignore" huh ?

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:01 PM

46. He was half right.

She'll become anything that helps her, until it doesn't.

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Response to Loudestlib (Reply #46)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:08 PM

116. +1

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:18 PM

3. Thom Hartmann acts rationally, offends part of his fan base

 

Under the BernieBus he goes!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:21 PM

5. Imagine when Bernie endorses Hillary???/

holy fuck, that will be a day that lives in infamy here! LOL

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Response to boston bean (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:23 PM

7. Oh I've said he will def go under the bus

 

if that day comes

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:26 PM

11. It will be fucking epic. I may take the day off of work for the entertainment value.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:27 PM

15. + 100

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:27 PM

16. Very good way to see who supported him vs those

 

who saw him as a vehicle by which to destroy the party.

Captain America and Iron Man won't be the only ones in a civil war this spring.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:43 PM

33. lol. nt

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:07 PM

66. As long as he doesn't donate ANY of the money he's raised to give to her.

I'm good. If he does I'm gone. There are down-ballot dems. who need that money but I don't think he will, donate to her I mean.

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Response to PyaarRevolution (Reply #66)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 01:54 AM

94. She will probably wind up paying off his campaign debt. nt

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:17 PM

70. Thanks for the belly laugh! Take the day off, indeed! LOLOL!

 

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:50 PM

81. Haha, I'll be laughing too, cus you're right.

We don't follow bernie just for being bernie, We want corruption out.

So I'll be laughing when that endorsement wont mean shit to Hillary at all haha..

Guess it's a funny subject. Don't worry, none of it's going to happen, Bernie will win. Or this Democratic party, will lose.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:38 AM

90. +1000!!! I know I will! nt

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 02:22 AM

96. The things that "entertain" you show you for what you are.

 

And there's nothing you can do about that.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:35 PM

27. Oh my gosh!!!

 

I will be glued to this PC all day long when the bus comes for Bernie and Elizabeth Warren!!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:43 PM

34. lol! nt

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:34 PM

56. She's already there for not endorsing Bernie.

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Response to LuvLoogie (Reply #56)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:47 PM

60. I think they just showed her the bus that time but..

 

She will see the undercarriage when she endorses Hillary for president.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #60)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:47 AM

101. Workingclass

are you really a working class person? If so you are a Hillary supporter. That is just funny as hell!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 01:51 AM

93. I think Bernie has recently come face to face with what she is.

 

And, bb, it is so amazingly low and disgusting that I doubt Bernie will be able to "endorse."

But you can just roll and roll in that stuff, honey.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 08:17 AM

110. It will be such a meltdown

the tsunami will wash GDP away. I can't wait to see it!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:52 PM

118. Hopefully this will happen. It'll then be more civil around here.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:33 PM

24. You nailed it

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:19 PM

50. "I will not waste my time looking for ways to link to the show"

 

I love it when folks that have been rec'ing and cheering links to attacks from the nastiest of right wing sites say they can't be bothered to link to an actual liberal progressive's website.

If that doesn't say something right there.....






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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:18 PM

4. It's been obvious what role Hartmann was intended to play. Not much difference?


They are polar opposites in MAJOR ways.

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Response to Skwmom (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:28 PM

19. He has lost me completely. Amy Goodman has not.

She is as good today as she was 20 years ago.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:23 PM

8. Stomp Your Feet, Threaten to Hold Breath and Cover Your Ears

somebody is being reasonable but it ain't you

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:25 PM

9. TH expects Hillary to "stay a progressive"?

 



WTF does that even mean .. since anyone with two brain cells to rub together
KNOWS that Hillary's "progressive" veneer is paper thin, and won't last 5 minutes
if Bernie were to drop out of the race.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:26 PM

13. I guessed correctly

Before clicking, I guessed "Thom got pragmatic, under the bus he goes."

Ha! I nailed it.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:39 PM

29. Nope, you didn't. He buckled. Big Time. Some people don't seem to have the courage

of their convictions. I voted for McGovern, Jerry Brown over Clinton, and ran a state volunteer campaign for Dean. They were all killed off. What are your chops?

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:42 PM

32. I voted for losing candidates too

I don't call them "chops" though.

Funny what some people think makes them "cool".

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:06 PM

48. Chops means earned experience, going door to door,

calling people, organizing people, working your butt off to accomplish your goals. It means giving up your life, family and time to support the candidate of your choice. When the DNC decides for us it is not democratic. They need to listen to their members--not insult them. I have donated thousands of dollars and tens of thousands of hours to support different candidates. I am getting up in years and don't know if I have another election left in me but I'll be damned if I let them lead me by a nose ring again. I say fight to the finish and GO BERNIE!!!!!

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:53 PM

40. So You've Voted for 4 Losers-Seems Appropritate

nm

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:27 PM

14. Please don't dox him though.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:28 PM

17. They've got to him.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:28 PM

18. Shocking how quickly he caved. The host following him in Chicago did the same.

Anyway I'm done with the 3 of them on WCPT "progressive" radio Stephanie Miller, Hartmann and Besen.. I will just tune into music or go exercise.

Bill Press, also on WCPT, doesn't seem to have any problems continuing to back Bernie but then he's a lifelong.progressive, not a liberal.

I wish they would get rid of the Saturday afternoon dude, too - totally for HRC and knocks Bernie all the time.

If only we could get RJ Eskew (sp?) on earlier in the day - he is great and a real Bernie progressive.

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Response to Peregrine Took (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:31 PM

21. Wow. You must have something different than FSTV.

I make a monthly donation to them but ain't gonna be paying for ole Thom's salary any more. We have DTV--what do you have?

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Response to Peregrine Took (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:32 PM

22. Bill Press Will Be on the Clinton Bandwagon Any Day Now

Clinton sweep next Tuesday should do it

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Response to Stallion (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:41 PM

30. LOL!!! She can't get enough delegates to clinch. Period.

And we have a saying out here in horse country about well--

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Response to Stallion (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 07:46 PM

136. Norman Goldman has been against Bernie from the get go...

He says he's for him but knows he really doesn't have a chance, so has been rooting for Hillary since day one and pushing his audience to vote for her. Alan Colmes has recently made the same jump to Hillary! Its like the Body Snatchers! Why am I being shamed to vote for someone that goes against everything I believe in? Can't do it! The 1%, DNC & Hillary will make sure she wins so why are they so S CARED?

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Response to Peregrine Took (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:45 PM

58. I'm with you

WCPT's line up sucks. I can't take Hal Sparks on a Saturday. He is insufferable and never shuts up long enough to let his callers or guests talk.

Hartmann lost me today too. Though he came close yesterday with his anti vaxer segment. Today was too much. He wouldn't even let his callers talk without totally talking over them. I had already stopped Stephanie Miller due to her constant ripping on Bernie.

Now I'll have to just turn on 780 and listen to the "news."

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Response to xloadiex (Reply #58)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:12 PM

69. I know!!!! I never called in to his show because he has an ego problem. He leaves callers on hold

and sometimes they complain about it then he lets them get out one or two sentences and cuts them off to ramble about his VAST knowledge of ---whatever---then he says to the caller--oh--Time's up!!!! That is annoying because I want to hear what the callers are saying, not about his living in Europe or other BS. My spouse is a physicist and says everything TH goes off on scientifically is totally incorrect. It's sad because he got me through some hard times.

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Response to xloadiex (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 08:25 AM

112. Stephanie is the WORST

 

I can't listen to her show any more. I did like her show, always made me laugh. But she repeats every Bernie talking points and memes from the Clinton campaign without checking them out and all her guests come on and talk down Bernie. It is MADDENING.
Then at the end of the dissing, she says, "But I'd vote for Bernie if he was the nominee."
As if that makes up for spreading the lies and misinformation.

And right now listening to Bill Press talking with Senator Jeff Merkley form Oregon, who is the senator who endorsed Bernie. They talked about how Bernie should and will stay in the race.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:30 PM

20. whow. Thom was a diehard-ad nausea for Bernie. Just whow.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:32 PM

23. The man was a hero to yall just days ago

 

But get under the bus Thom!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:34 PM

26. Not to me

but we understand we're all identical to you.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:03 PM

47. Funny how you guys fit a pope under there.

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Response to Loudestlib (Reply #47)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:26 PM

54. Better than putting him up on a pedestal. n/t

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #54)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:41 PM

74. It's not an either or. We can recognize the pope's progressive positions and still criticize his

faults.

That's an enlighten position. I don't expect Hillary supporters to understand it. n/t

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:34 PM

25. i am afraid thom jumped the shark

and it pains me greatly to say that. i have also been seeing some troubling signs that ed Schultz and cenk (!) are starting to drink the kool aid.

last night cenk and john were going with the lesser of two evils. ana and jimmy were fighting them.

tonights tyt was cenk and john. i had to turn it off!

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:46 PM

35. You are right. I see the discomfort in TH's body language and his vibes change when he

goes off on the 'unity' talk. He is obviously very uncomfortable. It's sad, really because I used to look forward to his show and if I missed it could always listen on the computer. I was in a red state last year as my 93 year old mother was dying and there was no radio or tv station that carried his show. That's why I signed up for 7.95 a month--just so I could keep my sanity in redville. Oy Vey!

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:58 PM

42. it is definitely discouraging

if i see ana, jimmy (from tyt) or mike papantonio talk unity i will be completely depressed.

and belated sympathies on your loss

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:28 PM

55. Aww. Thanks. She was a lady Marine in WWII.

I miss her and it's been rough. Depression babies. She went to school on the GI bill and went to law school. I had her convinced to vote Dem too-she voted for Kennedy.

I really doubt Papantonio will cave---but Farron Cousins always has the delegate count wrong!!! Arrraugh!

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #55)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:12 AM

85. sounds like she had an interesting life.

and a marine wow.

i hope pap stays true..but those delegate numbers.....better to ignore sometimes




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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:37 PM

121. Check this out-- Bernie Sanders radio!

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #121)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:03 PM

122. Oh Wowsers! Thanks! I will check it out! nt

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:56 PM

62. I was watching TNT on youtube last night...

and the chat box was going CRAZY yelling at Cenk, agreeing with Jimmy, commenting on how angry Ana looked. I don't remember seeing anyone agreeing with Cenk's position. I thought I'd blow a fuse myself at him. Jimmy was spot-on righteous.

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Response to Ino (Reply #62)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:19 AM

87. wow thanks

glad to know i wasnt the only one upset with cenk. poor ana she looks as depressed as i feel.

go jimmy!

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:18 AM

86. Cenk, Hartman and others

 

are living in an ideological fantasy world. They honestly believe that somehow if only a Democrat wins, then they can fight the neoliberalism and change it. They can somehow change the party.

The party changed when it embraced the Clintons, the DLC, and neoliberalism 30 years ago. It is not going back to the progressive left. Clinton will never be a progressive because she never was a progressive. She will continue if not complete the total right ward shift of the political spectrum in this country.

LOTE voting is such a modern phenomena. It never occurred to American voters up until the 1990's that we had to vote against the other party. We voted for the party that instead represented us best. Sometimes the left won, and sometimes the right one. Sometimes Democrats votes for Reagan. And sometimes Republicans voted for Clinton. The lines finally got blurred when we moved from statesmen and honorable opponents to cults of personality and narcissistic displays of power. Ask most whites what the remember about Reagan, and they will say he won the cold war. Ask most AA's what they remember about Bill Clinton, and they will say playing the saxophone on Arsenio Hall instead of Sister Soujah.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #86)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:13 PM

123. You make some very valid points. Sorry

for the late reply but I appreciate your insights as to Reagan and Clinton 1st and you are right. The mixed or crossover voting was real and the lines drawn in the sand these days are quicksand quagmires. 'Tear down that wall' while he wrecked the economy and smooth jazz from the architect of major job losses. And now we have Bernie and most people either don't know about him or don't care or don't get it.....

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:42 PM

31. LOL...So sorry your Tom Hartmann safe space has been invaded by reality! Must be tough!

Now he gets edited out of the photos and becomes an unperson. Big LOLz all around here...

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:51 PM

38. Eh-hem. He is not facing any trouble with the FBI. I lived through the Clinton's Dual

Presidency and it was drip, drip, drip. Always something. I think we need something fresh and new and that works for everyone. Do you really think a revisit to the early 90's is going to cut it? Look what they have done to Obama. You might think it can't get worse but the R's are loaded for bear. They have been planning their attacks on her for years, decades.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:49 PM

36. I feel the same way you do when I hear Thom on his radio show.

 

But when I watch him on his RT show, he seems like a different person. He is all Bernie on RT. I don't know what he is trying to prove, other than try to prevent a split party on the radio. But I am rather disappointed with him in his attempt to appease the whole party. That game is long over. There are Clinton supporters and there are Sanders supporters. Anyone straddling the fence will fall off in due time.

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Response to floriduck (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:56 PM

41. I could not agree more. He has been gradually 'going there' but today was

so over the top. How can he defend the moves of DWS?

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:51 PM

37. I literally turned him off after about 15 seconds because of that. Evidently otherwise intelligent

people can be suckered into the lesser of two evils scam.

He's just one more boiled frog. Fuck that.

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #37)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:59 PM

44. very succinctly and perfectly put. nt

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:53 PM

39. Under the bus with Hartman nt

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:59 PM

43. Another One Bites the Dust!!!

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Response to Stallion (Reply #43)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:11 PM

49. I loved Queen! Here's a GREAT one for you,



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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #49)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:24 PM

52. Well Now We Got a Hootenanny!!!

hmm I think these two invented Line Dancing way back in the '60s

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Response to Stallion (Reply #52)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:46 PM

59. Well. This is how we hootenanny in Nuevo Mexico.

So far you are not on 'Ignore', you are actually growing on me, well, somewhat. Enjoy this, seriously.

&list=RDFxwxM8qVnK4&index=13

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Response to Stallion (Reply #43)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:10 PM

68. Meh. He's been under the Hillary bus since he started supporting Sanders anyway.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:24 PM

51. Looks like he is not the only one..

 

of the progressives who have jumped the shark today.

But what they do not yet realize is that this train has left the station, and it's running straight into the heart of the beast - with our without them.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:26 PM

53. Yes, Thom Hartman was saying how Clinton was moving to the 'left'...

 

Where Sanders already is...

Thom was saying how we need to hold Clinton to her new 'progressive' positions.

Here is the problem Thom: Clinton like all the other republicans and too many Dems
don't care what the people think or want. We can't hold her feet to the fire. She could
care less. Clinton will be like Obama, for example, offer up cuts to SS with the C-CPI.
All in the name of bipartisanship. Ever notice that republicans *never* give in. But Dems
do...

Love ya Thom - but this doesn't work anymore. We need a person like Sanders to turn this
ship around now or it will be too late.

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 03:02 AM

97. Thom is very uncomfortable with any real conflict. His faith is in rationality and

compromise. I used to go berzerkers when he tried to "debate" righties and always pulled his punches and tried to appear reasonable. It just didn't work and I think he lost more arguments than he won. He can be impressive with his detailed knowledge on certain subjects but he is definitely lacking in some areas like economics.

I will forever be grateful for his long time alliance with Bernie and for introducing him to a wider audience, and his support of Bernie up to this point, but I didn't even turn on his show today for fear of what he might say. Thanks for warning me.

I guess I can now cancel my sirius subscription since Mike is gone, Stephanie was always a lost cause, and there is really no one worth listening to anymore. Bye, bye Thom. btw, I really hate your music--it makes me physically ill.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:35 PM

57. Justices nominated by Republicans have controlled the SCOTUS for a long time and Obama

has supposedly had at least one on his short list for a long time. And then, there's Cass Sunstein and the law and order "moderate" Obama did nominate. And, let's not forget: Breyer and Kagan voted with the Republicans against ACA's Medicaid expansion. So, the strength of the SCOTUS card is not what it once was.

Also, had Democratic Senators done their jobs about nominations, we would not have had such bad Republican Justices on the Court.

http://jackpineradicals.org/content.php?150-Obama-Considers-Nominating-a-Republican-to-the-Supreme-Court-of-the-United-States

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Response to merrily (Reply #57)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:02 PM

64. Thanks, Merrily. You are a wealth of historical knowledge

and have excellent recall or an enormous gift for finding the TRUTH that is out there that most of us miss. I shudder to think who HRC would nominate to the SC and will not buy into TH's argument. I remember 'Impeach Earl Warren' bumper stickers as a child and asking my parents what that meant. They were evasive.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #64)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:08 PM

67. Earl Warren was an Eisenhower appointee. He had been the AG of California who implemented the

Japanese internment and had also run for VP. I have a feeling Eisenhower expected him to be a conservative. He turned into probably the most liberal CJ ever. Eisenhower said nominating Warren was the biggest mistake of his two terms. Of course, Eisenhower was a racist who was ticked off by Brown v. Bd. of Ed. He dragged his feet on enforcing it until people shamed him, including Eleanor Roosevelt going to the WH.

Breyer - nominated by New Dem Clinton

Kagan - nominated by New Dem Obama.

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Response to merrily (Reply #67)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:26 PM

71. Thanks for the history lesson. Will you run for office? Please?

Amazing. I always thought Eisenhower was better than that. He was in office when I was born. LOL, oldie here.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #71)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:42 PM

76. Earl Warren got back at Eisenhower when Warren wrote his autobiog. He exposed Ike for the racist he

was. They were at some Republican fundraiser with a lot of Southerners and Eisenhower said something like, "See, Earl? These are nice people. They just don't want some big black animal sitting next to their little girls in school." Something like that. And Warren put it in his autobiog. It's been at least ten years since I read the comment, so the wording is not exact, but it was awful. I do remember that much.

NO, I will not run for office. I will never lie or hold my tongue, so I would lose.

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Response to merrily (Reply #76)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:57 PM

84. Truman promoted Eisenhower during WWII because he wanted him to run as a Dem.

He later told Truman that he would never run as a Democrat, because he hated their support for Unions, and lobor in general.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #84)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 04:23 AM

98. The love of Democrats for Eisenhower is so misguided, IMO.

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Response to merrily (Reply #67)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:38 PM

72. Actually Earl Warren Was Also Governor of California

nm

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Response to merrily (Reply #67)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:41 PM

73. I forgot to give you a new gift in gratitude for your brilliance... enjoy

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #73)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:45 PM

79. Thank you so much! That is so lovely of you.

I think I'm tuckered for a while. Good night.

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Response to merrily (Reply #67)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:21 AM

131. That's interesting

Of course, Eisenhower was the president who got involved in the Little Rock Central High Crisis stand-off against then-Arkansas governor, Orval Faubus. Another Arkansas DUer told me that it wasn't exactly what the history books depict it to be, and you seem to be reinforcing what he said.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #131)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 01:59 AM

133. Eisenhower also gets credit for the national highway system and for nominating Democratic justices.

The highway system was FDR's idea, but World War II came along; and Eisenhower nominated Democratic justices because he thought that would help him get re-elected. Also enough money for "guns and butter," which was thanks to FDR's tax system, which was still in place and the aftermath of the war economy. (Kennedy reduced taxes.)

Even though Eisenhower was a war hero, you have to imagine how freaky it was to Republicans that Democrats had just held the Oval Office for 20 years and Congress for most of that. That is, I believe, why Eisenhower and Nixon look so good in the rear view mirrors of some Democrats That and the fact that they had Democratic Congresses.

I am really tired of Democrats going so dreamy over Ike and Tricky Dick.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:49 PM

61. Guess he finally got paid big time to join...

 

the Chorus.....
Sad sad day.....

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:02 PM

63. We gained heavily in 2008 when Obama pretended to be a liberal. He veered to the right once in offi

 

and we've been hemorrhaging seats ever since. And the party apparatchiks solution is to always cave in to the republicans even more. I'm sorry to hear that Hartmann has given up.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #63)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:51 PM

83. I am very disappointed that Obama was so esoteric and seems to have

served his terms in office believing he could meet them halfway. I blame his choice of advisors mostly because he surrounded himself t=with the same old loser dregs of Clinton I. He should take responsibility for his failed tenure but never will and we have the DOJ email mess coming up soon. It will never change unless we make it change and they apparently hold all the money and the power and are not about to give up one inch. Look at Donna Brazile, Jesus, saying she gets TWO votes as a SD. What is democratic about that?

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #83)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:50 AM

108. Esoteric?

 

What does that mean in his context?

OBAMA RAN AND GOVERNED AS A CENTRIST.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:04 PM

65. Thom has been doing some vacillating for at least a month now...at first i just thought he was into

appeasement and keeping the Party somewhat together...both of which fly in the face of what is going on...there is not 'one' Democratic Party right now..there are two strong factions, one of which has been shuffled out of positions power for the past 30 years...but has not gone away...

Thom's professed belief that 'Hillary has moved left because of Bernie..' is bordering on fantasy...her history speaks otherwise...

she is saying whatever it takes to whoever it takes to get her prize...and to, seemingly suddenly, come to the conclusion that she has 'changed' or 'adapted' or any other imaginary illusion and that Hillary 'will now be more progressive'...

well fuck...that wouldn't take much, standard-wise, now would it...she can't, and won't, go far enough left to even get her to the (current) center...let alone to the left of what 30 years ago WAS the center...

when the shit hits the fan, the people with the most to lose duck first...those with nothing to lose have nothing to fear...

Thom seems to want to sit on the fence and make amends...that rarely works once the bullets start flying, so to speak...

i listen to him every day...and i like his show and intellect...but he seems to be trying to bulk-up some weakness he is feeling and it appears that he has caved somewhat to a 'surer' position...

which was not his 'persona'...but then again, it's easy to bitch about a dead Ronald Reagan who fucked everything up...but these pundits are all facing the potential of a President Clinton II...and hey...they all have jobs, you know?

...wouldn't want to screw THAT up...

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:41 PM

75. I know Thom agrees with Bernie and I know Hill's dishonesty & gutter-level campaigning disturb him.

 

I have been listening to him for a long time and find it relatively easy to detect his moods, doubts, enthusiasms, etc. I knew this was coming. I think there are several factors at work in what you heard today (I haven't listened to the podcast yet and am now dreading it). Mind you, this is only my opinion, but it's based on listener familiarity and observation.

Firstly, Thom of course fears what a Republican presidency (particularly a Trump presidency) could do to the country.

Secondly, he is acutely aware of his public responsibility as a popular talk show host. If he tells people to go Bernie or Bust, then quite a few progressives might do so, and if the Bernie or Busters cause a Republican to win the GE, then Thom could be at least partly blamed for it. The ensuing negative effect on his reputation and standing in the D.C. Democratic community (he is based in DC) could leave him somewhat isolated and less able to get Democrats to appear on his show.

So I think he both doesn't want it on his conscience AND doesn't want to be blamed for it if it does happen.

I think it's understandable. However, if all progressive media made that decision, it would be very sad for progressives.

But I've seen him respond pretty strongly to some of the dirty things the Hill campaign has been doing. So I think he's walking a fine line, as many people must do. I've also wondered if Hill's reputation for vindictiveness toward those she considers disloyal could have affected him -- I don't know.

And of course I'm wondering what Bernie will think of it.

So I'm kind of sad but can understand his particular situation. I hope he left the possibility open that Bernie can turn it around.

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Response to senz (Reply #75)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:57 AM

91. However, he himself has said that he is not a DC insider

He has retold the story of when they moved to DC and he was invited to a party. He didn't fit their mold of playing the politics game and was never invited to another party after that.

I didn't listen today, but am disappointed in reading all of this.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #91)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 01:45 AM

92. Yes, I know. I didn't want to say it, though.

 

I find it kind of sticky and hard to deal with. I like and respect Thom and have wondered lately if he wants to be an insider. He's done a few smaller reversals recently, like with MSNBC. I think he may have been hurt by their treatment of him. I wish he realized that he, as he really is, is a thousand times better than any sell-out DC phony.

He's a good person and I don't want to judge him on this.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:46 PM

80. .

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Response to RandySF (Reply #80)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 02:16 AM

95. Oh Randy, those people with their values and standards

 

they're just SO silly, aren't they, Randy?

You want to see "under the bus?" Read this.

It's yer goddess, queen of under-the-bus.

Go ahead, worship it.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:50 PM

82. TH seems to be a Peace-at-any-Price type of Person eom

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:23 AM

88. it started with OA at Seattle--basically, he saw Sanders getting shoved by activists, so there must

be something behind it: Sanders had to have done something, something outrageous, something that truly deserved such a tremendous response and which was met with angry boos when the activists tried to bring it to their attention--those fiends! a reaction like that means they had to be even more correct than ever!

of course the protesters didn't even recognize Sanders or have the slightest idea, and one of them had easily slid from supporting Palin to supporting Farrakhan

now there's only one Dem candidate left that BLM still has to protest, but to admit that would be to have to reframe the entire image that Clinton's built up around herself, as a competent liberal who's the leftmost hope and the only one to beat the racist hordes on the right--and even the left

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:31 AM

89. HA! Wonder who is next?

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:32 AM

99. Couldn't TH wait until the primaries were over!??!

Why is he joining the corporate bandwagon so prematurely ?

NONSENSE!!

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:43 AM

100. I always Liked

TH since we shared alot of the same principles, but he hasnever been one to have the stomach for getting his hands dirty. When has he ever gone out to a picket line with union workers and gotten himself arrested? He could of gone to D.C. and participated in this weeks protests. Many rich celebs put their money where their mouths are like Rosario Dawson, Ben and Jerry, etc. They protested and got at arrested. TH will never go that far which means he is full of shit.

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Response to jpb33 (Reply #100)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:27 PM

126. You make some very astute points I had never thought of and

you are right! I think you will be a very interesting voice here. I like your point of view--refreshing! Sorry for the late reply and welcome to DU!

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:26 AM

103. He does go a bit overboard, but look wahat someone posted. . . and it is AWESOME

 



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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:27 AM

104. Also, email him or call in the show to voice your objection. He can be reasoned with.

 

I get very annoyed with him many, many times too.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:31 AM

105. Stay Positive Thom

The Thom Hartmann program has been inviting Hillary Clinton, or a campaign surrogate, onto his radio show for almost a year now. No takers.

Thom has implored the Clinton campaign to avoid dirty tactics & stick to a positive script regarding Hillary's accomplishments. Thom encouraged the campaign to distance itself from the slimy hit job politics of David Brock & John Podesta.

Thom gives Clinton a complete pass on her prior support & active involvement in the TPP simply because she changed her viewpoint on the deal once when pressured.

Every election cycle Thom reinforces the need for strong voting rights but the DNC believes such actions will dissuade people from voting.

Every presidential election cycle Thom stresses that we need a democrat in the White House because the Supreme Court will likely lose a member or two & we'll need to replace judges with liberal appointees like.............Merrick Garland apparently.

It amazes me that Thom manages to stay positive about things.





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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:39 AM

106. This election is showing us who's who.

It seems that too many only stand for something when it serves their career path and doesn't require any character or loss.

And btw to TH, I don't think I would be relieved at all by HRC's SC pics. I think she'd put the big banks on the court, free traders, and neocons.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:47 AM

107. Ha ha ha ha

 

I've been calling out Hartmann for ages for his conspiracy theorizing in the service of selling Moar Gold and Mega Supa Beets to idiots who don't believe in science, economics, or common sense. The dude is a self-righteous pseudo-intellectual I refer to as the Liberal Glenn Beck, one who preys on the rank stupidity and fear of his core audience, willing to believe anything that corresponds to their world view in which the Bush family and the Illuminati are conspiring to scretly rule the world via the military-industrial-GMO-vaccine complex. And oh yeah the one percent. Lynch them. And Oh yeah, buy Moar gold because look at that stock market . . , oh wait it's actually up substantially on the year and near a record high, but TH hasn't bothered to cut new commercials warning that it's too high so he runs the ones where he screams that it's all collapsing NOW buy Moar Gold!

People who think Hartmann is some kind of genius strike me as either nuts or poorLy informed and educated. His rhetoric relies on the same tricks the right wing shock jocks use. And the same advertisers.

That said, if he's come around on Hillary maybe he's not as hopeless as he seems. His support for Bernie helped convince me that many Sanders supporters were motivated by angry conspiracy theories and paranoia. Listening to them call in and propose absurd conspiracy stories with which Hartmann would simply agree showed me how our far left wing folks are just about as anger-and-fear driven as the tea party nutcakes.

But it's funny as hell to watch the true believers turn on their false prophet, and I suspect it will be even funnier when Bernie himself sells out the cause for a paycheck or just for common sense pragmatism.

Stick a fork in it folks. We're done picking our nominee.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 08:14 AM

109. I didn't see Hartmann yesterday but saw this coming

A number of us have discussed some of the intellectual backflips Hartmann had been doing while pretending that there wasn't really a huge difference between Bernie and Hillary. He clearly knows better, based on his conversations with people like Thomas Frank and some of his own comments. The idea he's been trying to peddle that Bernie has pulled Hillary to the left and somehow turned her into a progressive is complete bullshit, and Hartmann isn't stupid enough to really believe it.

My guess is that FSTV is hanging on by its fingernails financially and Hartmann thinks the audience for real progressives isn't large enough to keep them in business, so the only hope for survival is to remain a house organ for the Democratic Party. Stephanie Miller has been there through this campaign. Hartmann has tried to hold out and remain somewhat neutral, but after New York he decided he had to get off the fence and become yet another complete sellout.

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #109)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:52 PM

114. right, it's the whole "X has to be a secret liberal--they just HAVE to!"

it's not just that the Pubs are so loathsome, it's also that it'd mean admitting that the party isn't what we've tried to make it by believing in it for so hard and so long, that our fight's been in vain; any criticism, mind you, will be viciously blamed and swarmed when the drippy DINO loses because they're unlikable and have literally nothing to offer anyone

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 08:17 AM

111. I have to say, Thom has definitely exhibited he's got

 

Dr. Frankenstein Syndrome TM (c)
He feels responsible for creating a monster (Bernie or Busters) and is in full damage control mode. His whole "Let's all just get along" schtick with Stephanie Miller was the first indicator.

He obviously never listens to her show. She's been trolling Bernie and his supporters for months and only reports pro-Hillary, anti-Bernie pieces. She had Ed Schultz on once and he steamrolled her. She was totally deflated. She thought she could butter-up Ed like she does Thom (she's so insecure), but Ed wouldn't have any of it. On the other hand, Thom acts like a desperate man succumbed by flattery.

I didn't catch him yesterday. Did he actual say Bernie needs to drop out now? That would be the only reason I could see for creating the OP. He's said all along that he'll support Hillary and Bernie should stay in until the convention. If he's asking Bernie to drop out, wow!

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)


Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #113)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 08:09 PM

119. I had an interesting discussion on this topic earlier today.

 

Trump is an ego-maniacal loony toon with ideas that will never get through congress (his wall, etc.). If he got in, he would probably wind up completely grid locked and be stuck pointing fingers for 4 years at everyone standing in his way, sending out angry tweets about various senators and congress people not playing fair. The democrats in the senate would filibuster any attempt to dismantle things like the ACA and his lack of being able to get things done would likely lead to him losing the Senate in 2018 (and possibly the congress). Unlike bush, Trump is not a complete idiot, so we wouldn't be on the same path we were when bush was in office where memos about attacks would get ignored, we would attack the wrong country or giant housing bubble would blow up in our faces. For all his faults (and lord knows there are many), he would be MOST afraid of making a mistake. He would replace Scalia with another Scalia.

Hillary is downright dangerous, because she would most likely take office with a GOP house and Senate and her willingness to capitulate means they would get what they want. The progressive agenda would get thrown under the bus. In many ways the conservative agenda would get advanced easier under a Hillary administration. The one advantage is that we won't get another Scalia, but we would likely end up with a pro-corporate justice who is not likely to overrule Buckley v. Valeo (which is where you REALLY have to go in order to truly get rid of citizens united).

Climate change will get thrown under the bus by both candidates and Hillary is okay with Frackin and Trump doesn't even believe in it.. basically, no progress will be made under either administration.

All in all, in many ways, Hillary is far more dangerous because I know what she will do.. sell us out as she has done her whole career.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:40 PM

117. I think you scared him. He wasn't there today. They filled in for him. Ha.

 

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #117)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:21 PM

124. LOL. I'm sure he is terrified of the responses this thread got (sarcasm)

and I had to go to sleep last night and get up early today to plant. You crack me up! I'm sure he is afraid of boomers on SS but who help pay his salary. Here's some of what I did last year...guess what I'm doing all this week? Sorry for the late reply!





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Response to Land of Enchantment (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:44 PM

128. I support Bernie, too, but He's running for the Democratic Nomination.

I suspect if he doesnt win the nomination, he will endorse the nominee and encourage his supporters to vote for her.

Thats how this works.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #128)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:07 AM

129. Bernie said he would and I expect him to keep his word. Unless------

I am not a Bernie or Bust person--yet. But I cannot vote for her ..at this point. I've been around since ' '72 and lived through the DNC telling me for whom I will vote. I don't know if I have another presidential election left in me and I am not going to be duped again. I have supported every D candidate since '72 and Bernie is the candidate of my lifetime. No scandals, no trust issues--what you see is what you get--a real FDR reincarnation. I am just disgusted that the DNC never gave him a chance, in fact they screwed him from the onset and I am not going to tow their line--again. I doube he would run on a third party ticket because he has committed to supporting her if she 'wins' but in my opinion if her 'wins' are by fraud I will encourage him to run because Trump will also be a third party and we will have four.....
Not trying to piss you off but we never know what will happen and it could get interesting.

I care about climate change and global warming. My spouse is an expert (PhD) and it is CRITICAL we address and FIX it. Mrs. Clinton supports fracking, drilling, etc. Our loss if she wins.... Thanks for writing.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #129)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:10 AM

130. I hear you. Im certainly not gonna tell you what to do, or try to.

I respect peoples own process and how they make up their minds, and besides lectures rarely convince anyone of anything.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #130)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 01:54 AM

132. Thanks for your respect. I think I am a little too old to be lectured

as I have been around too many screwed up elections. I voted for McGovern and was maced protesting Nixon. Every time we had someone remotely progressive the national party apparatchik killed them off. My last failure was Howard Dean. I worked my ass off for him and was on the front page of the state's newspaper (pictured with him) the day of the primary. His 50 state strategy was brilliant but his successors have failed him and the Party and the people. I won't lecture you either and thanks for your reply.

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