Bernie campaign hits a new low. Attacking Hillary by invoking the name

[pnwmom]

of Bill's former sex partner, Monica Lewinsky, is itself a form of bullying.

Hillary did nothing wrong. She was wronged by Bill and Monica.

(And calling Monica a name in a private email to a friend was a very mild response, as Lewinsky herself has noted.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/maryaliceparks/status/723994673468047360

MaryAlice Parks
MaryAlice Parks? @maryaliceparks

.@RosarioDawson intro'ing Sanders accuses Clinton camp/supporters of bullying: "Now I’m with Monica Lewinsky with this. Bullying is bad"

Apr 23, 2016, 2:59:15 PM

[B Calm]

1. and look who brought it to DU.

[pnwmom]

6. Right. We shouldn't bring anything to DU that might spoil Bernie-so-pure's image. n/t

[Armstead]

10. How about her husband joking about Sanders supporters wanting to shoot people

I wish some people's delicate sensibilities were consistent

[pnwmom]

18. What individual's feelings were hurt by that? Lewinsky is a person who hurt Hillary

on a deeply personal level. Invoking her name is not at all comparable to Bill's joking remark.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. if Bill jokes about me wanting to shoot people then I am not amused

[pnwmom]

20. He didn't. n/t

[Armstead]

24. The Hell He Didn't

[snowy owl]

153. HRC blind loyalty. Leslie Stahl on Maher said "Clinton...biggest hawk" of all candidates inc. GOP

[Armstead]

21. My feelings were hurt....Well, not really but I was highly offended on many levels

Equating Sanders positions with random gun violence.....Yeah that's offensive as hell.

And If Sanders ever said anything EVEN CLOSE to what Bill said...you people would have 30 OP's on DU about it, and David Brock would have set the Manufactured Outrage and Offended Machine at full tilt.

[appalachiablue]

86. +10

[passiveporcupine]

30. You think Monaca wasn't a victim?

You don't understand the first thing about sexual harassment at work, something Hillary should have been fighting against. I guess she only fights against it when her dear hubby is not involved.

But she stood by her man, against Monica, and made Monica the bad guy. Bill has has all kinds of picadellos and Hillary has hushed up each one and made herself the victim, instead of the real victims.

You need to take a class in workplace harassment.

Jeesus...and you're a woman?

[SFnomad]

40. Sexual harassment? ML snapper her thong at President Clinton and pursued him!!

This is the same ridiculous attack that right wingnuts made, all the time. You people need to get a clue.

[CoffeeCat]

56. Excuse me, but this is incredibly sexist and ignorant

There are laws that prohibit teachers from having sexual relationship with their students, even if the student is 18.

That is because there is an imbalance of power. And that power can be used to manipulate people.

Same with pastors and their parishoners; therapists and their patients. Whenever there is an imbalance of power, it is wrong for the person who is in a position of power to take advantage of that power in a sexual manner.

You don't think there was any power differential between the President of the United States, who was in his 50's--and Monica Lewinsky, an intern in her early 20's?

Blaming this all on her is SICK. Bill Clinton behaved like a predator.

[SFnomad]

59. Nice to see you rewriting history like a Republican n/t

[CoffeeCat]

63. Nice to see you sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich

I've been a Democrat my entire life. I voted for Bill Clinton twice, by the way.

This is not a Republican way of thinking. This is not a Democratic way of thinking. It's the way the majority of the country sees it.

[SFnomad]

68. To be calling what happened between BC and ML "sexual harassment" is certainly Republican way of

thinking. And is a complete rewrite of history. What BC did was wrong, but it wasn't sexual harassment.

[SusanCalvin]

76. Imbalance of power. nt

[SFnomad]

81. She pursued him, multiple times - not sexual harassment n/t

[SusanCalvin]

85. And someone supposedly smart enough to be POTUS couldn't deal? nt

[SFnomad]

89. He should have ... he didn't. That was his fault. That doesn't make it sexual harassment. n/t

[SusanCalvin]

96. Ooooookaaaaaaay. nt

[CoffeeCat]

78. It was sexual harassment

A boss getting blow jobs from an intern.

That's sexual harassment.

The imbalance of power is there.

We're supposed to believe that there is an imbalance of power between a teacher and a student--but not the President of the United States and a 22 year old intern? Oh please.

[SusanCalvin]

87. ^THIS^

[SFnomad]

91. If something happens between a teacher and a student (and the student pursued) that is not sexual

harassment, but it is statutory rape, if the student is under age. Monica was a legal age adult. This was NOT sexual harassment ... which also does not make what happened right.

[treestar]

139. Baloney.

It is only harassment if the underling is being threatened with losing their job AND more importantly, they would not otherwise want to do it

And we have to become adults at some point. What should the age of majority be raised to?

[passiveporcupine]

123. that term does not always mean someone was harrassed

it also refers to "imbalance of power" as Susan just said, and it refers to taking advantage of someone who is lower on the power scale.

It is a normal thing for young people to get crushes on older people who have fame and/or power. It is the responsibility of the older person to not take advantage of that crush.

[SFnomad]

126. The longer this goes on, the more the BS cheerleaders sound like Republicans

It was not sexual harassment, it was a consensual affair.

[passiveporcupine]

129. I was sexually abused and manipulated by someone I adored

And then my step father became my enemy and almost destroyed my life.

I know how it starts and how it ends up. It did not end up good for Lewinski, did it? It didn't end up good for Bill either. He was a married man and her boss, and a superstar to her. He was supposed to be mature enough and responsible enough to not allow this to happen. I know men think with their little heads too often, and in his case, it ruled him on occasion. That doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. Her consent did not make it the right thing to do.

maybe this will help explain it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1825728

[SFnomad]

132. Monica was NOT sexually abused or manipulated, jesus christ

You will not get an argument from me that Bill should not have done it ... he shouldn't have.

But what happened was is NO WAY sexual harassment.

[passiveporcupine]

134. I'm sorry, but it's obvious you know nothing about sexual abuse/harrassment

You should do some reading up on it.

Many victims of sexual abuse grow up with serious depression because they blame themselves for what happened. Just like Monica did. And like me. I never told anyone until I was 18 and frigid. I finally went to a therapist. I have dealt with depression my whole life (on and off) because of it. I've not had a normal life, and am unable to have normal relationships with most men, because of it, yet I blamed myself because I loved my stepfather, until he turned on me when I stopped allowing him to touch me. He then turned to emotional abuse and taught me that I was ugly and stupid, and unfortunately, the last part of that stuck. I've always thought I was stupid, dull, slow. He destroyed my life, and then my Mother's life, when he left her for the little girl next door who grew up and married him. She loved him too, but she was 13 when he started having sex with her. Mom never knew. I was too scared to tell her.

You have no idea what that kind of guilt can do to a person. I think Monica is extremely brave to come out publicly now and fight against the bullying she had to put up with. It's not about her and Bill anymore. The bullying came from the public and the press (because they believed Bill's lies, and labelled her a whore).

And you all still want to do that.

[SFnomad]

135. FFS, I have done some reading up on it ... you are wrong

Courts and employers generally use the definition of sexual harassment contained in the guidelines of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). This language has also formed the basis for most state laws prohibiting sexual harassment. The guidelines state:

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when
1.submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment,
2.submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individuals, or
3.such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment. (29 C.F.R. § 1604.11 [1980])

A key part of the definition is the use of the word unwelcome. Unwelcome or uninvited conduct or communication of a sexual nature is prohibited; welcome or invited actions or words are not unlawful. Sexual or romantic interaction between consenting people at work may be offensive to observers or may violate company policy, but it is not sexual harassment.

[passiveporcupine]

148. I said it might not be harrassment, but that doesn't mean it's not wrong

Legally, you are right, if it was consensual between two adults. But there is an age difference like there was with Clinton and Lewinski, and a huge power difference, as in this case, he was the most powerful man in the country, and she had a crush on him. She was immature, even though she was 20. He was old enough to know better.

It was morally reprehensible on his part to allow what happened with her to happen...even if it was consensual. He never should have encouraged it, and yet he did, or it never would have happened. Because if it had been forced on him, he would have said so. Because of the age difference and the fact that young people get crushes on superstars all the time, this kind of thing can happen, and it's not quite the same as two adults of the same age falling in love. And he was a huge superstar. You may never have had a crush on a superstar, and may not understand how vulnerable her age and her crush made her.

I think the harrassment part of this is when he lied to the press to say he never had sex with that woman. He put her in a very bad light by telling a lie about her and making her look like a grifter, not just a young woman who got in over her head. And of course, the whole thing of the press and public bullying her for something they weren't bullying him for. So many people defended him over this, and it was pretty reprehensible.

Bill showed his lack of judgement in his involvement with her, and then he treated her like dirt. Just to protect himself and his position of power. Hillary was very brave to stand up to public scrutiny the way she did, but then she will do anything for power and she'd had experience with this sort of infidelity of Bill's before. He was very much like a child

[beedle]

158. No, she was bullied for "ruining the reputation" of Bill

something that Bill was far more responsible for than any 20 year old infatuated intern. Yet the Clintons made sure the shame and bullying ended up landing on the scapegoat.

Once again Hillary supporters only support "women®" in so far as it meets their political agenda ... if supporting "women®" means they need to admit responsibility for something, then fuck you "women®".

Notice Dawson was talking about Bullying? Not sexism? But either way, Hillary supports quickly throw "Women®" overboard no matter if it is about sexism or bullying, just as long as it's in Hillary's interest.

[treestar]

140. So younger against the many marriages out there with such

An imbalance, especially when the older person is a celebrity?

[passiveporcupine]

72. Nice to see you rewriting history like a Hillary fan

You have no idea what you are talking about. The law is against you.

[SFnomad]

93. No, the law is not ... you people make crap up all the time n/t

[SusanCalvin]

77. Thank you.

[passiveporcupine]

122. 'Bill Clinton behaved like a predator'

Yes, he did, and it wasn't his first time. He has a history of it.

Young people are vulnerable to older people in places of fame and power, And Monica got a crush on her "boss", just like anyone can get a crush on a superstar. I used to have a crush on Paul McCartney. Why I didn't pick John, I'll never know...but I was crazy about him. If I'd met him in person, I don't know how I would have behaved. I would have been shamelessly fawning all over him. And he probably would have taken advantage of me and then hopped on a plane and flown away.

[Silver_Witch]

61. You are wrong...

I don't care who snaps their thong at a MARRIED man - if he does not have enough self-control to keep from putting his dick in her mouth that he is not a good man at all and definitely NOT a good husband. Period!!

[dionysus]

174. +1 i cant believe people are defending his behavior... even though he didn't break the law, it was

a scumbag thing to do... he should have had some self control. then we wouldn't have been talking about his shit for DECADES...

[Silver_Witch]

180. Or he could have just told the truth!

Hell - he didn't have to go on TV and lie to every American that had voted for him.

He is a liar and immoral...what he did was between him and his wife UNTIL he lied to us...then it became our business and our Shame!

You are beyond right. A few frickin blow jobs and it has been the news since the 90's....

[dionysus]

188. i can't believe the hyperbole. "bernie has sunk to new lows.." the clintons are professional liars.

I can't believe the deep, deep loyalty some people have to the Clintons. My first vote ever was for Bill. I voted for him twice, and would vote for him again if I had it to do over, but they are not the same people they were before they became filthy rich. Looking back, they were liars back then, too. Still, better than anybody the GOP has!

[SusanCalvin]

82. Oh dear god.

And he had the obligation, due to his supposed better judgment (you know, what we expect of the POTUS, not to mention an older person) to resist.

[beedle]

168. The moral of the story

in order to be a true Hillary "feminist®" you must be willing to always blame the "woman®" ... unless you can blame Bernie Sanders.

[Silver_Witch]

60. Thank you that was perfect!!

[pnwmom]

64. She wasn't Hillary's victim. SHE hurt Hillary, not the other way around.

Hillary didn't owe her anything.

[Madam Mossfern]

124. No,

Bill hurt Hillary.

[SusanCalvin]

73. Yep.

I was actually in the pro-impeachment camp at the time.

She was a young intern. I considered him in loco parentis.

Today, I think she is a very brave person.

[snowy owl]

115. She was old enough to know better. Clintons and victims. Tiring.

[Buzz cook]

117. just how ignorant are you?

My I suggest "The Hunting of the President".

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hunting-President-Ten-Year-Campaign/dp/0312273193

Try to learn from history, not make it up as you go along.

[JimDandy]

32. That would be Bill Clinton whose sexual exploits were the problem.

Hillary never publicly denounced her husband for entering into an incredibly inappropriate employer/employee sexual relationship, not once, but twice (Paula Jones), and probably more.

[Silver_Witch]

57. Lewinsky did not hurt Hillary - BILL DID!

Bill is Hillary's husband and he is the one that betrayed her and she forgave him. Period end of sentence.

Monica Lewinsky had no relationship with Hillary and therefore no obligation to be anything to her at all. It was HER husband that had "sexual relations" with Monica...so if want to accuse someone of hurting Hillary trying accusing BILL.

[pnwmom]

143. Monica knew he was married and chose to get involved with him anyway.

Both Monica and Bill hurt Hillary, and Monica was well aware of that.

[Silver_Witch]

172. And your point?

Bill knew he was married and still he choose to put his penis in a place it did not belong.

WHY is that okay with you? Why is it bad for Monica to "know he was married" and still be involved and yet you give President Clinton a pass.

That is the question Bill Clinton supporters should ask themselves.

[pnwmom]

173. Hillary had NOTHING to do with it and Dems shouldn't be invoking Monica's name to attack Hillary.

We expect despicable attacks from the Rethugs but not other Dems.

[Bohemianwriter]

120. right!

The so-called feminists defends a man in a power position, and puts all the blame on a femal 20s something intern.

Looks like Hillary and her supporters have something in common:

Flip-floppling!

[beedle]

164. Ahh I see your confusion

For Hillary supporters there are women and there are "women®". The latter being things to be used as objects of their expression of faux outrage, or to be jettisoned if their maintenance interferes with political ambitions.

Anytime Hillary of one of her supporters mention any specific group, such as women, minorities, Blacks, Latinos, the poor, etc, just put a little ® at the end of the word and it will help you understand what fucking nonsense they are talking about.

[Zen Democrat]

128. Her had her feelings hurt? Poor, poor Hillary.

It was over 20 years ago. Monica's life was ruined and she was vilified by media and political bullies. I think the sympathy Hillary received in the wake of Bill's Big Dog behavior softened her and made her popular for the first time ever. Without Monica Lewinsky, I doubt Hillary could have been elected in New York, Arkansas, Illinois, Pennsylvania or whatever other home states she claims.

[Voice for Peace]

142. But you defend Bill? It was that girl monica? Poor hill!

[-none]

97. They can't use or stick to the issues that concern this country, so...

We have things like the OP

[kstewart33]

176. Okay then. Time to dust off the videos starring Bernie and his Communist and Marxist friends.

Relationships with Fidel Castro. David Ortega. The Sandinistas. And much more.

The Republicans have them all and are salivating to use them if Bernie gets the nomination.

And I'd wager that those old speeches and videos will cost Bernie a whole lotta more votes than Hillary will lose over Monica who.

At least that's what the Republicans think.

[silvershadow]

189. +1. nt

[insightdeluxe]

2. nothing to see here

lewinsky is actually a big anti bullying advocate. everybody knows that. unless you like stained dresses.

[whatchamacallit]

3. Bill brought the country to a new low

Only in the Hilliverse is invoking Lewinski's name lower than the act itself.

[pnwmom]

4. Using Lewinsky's name to attack Bill's WIFE is a very low blow for Bernie-so-pure to approve of. n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Uh,

.....never mind.

It ain't worth it..........

[passiveporcupine]

88. Except, this has absolutely nothing to do with bill and only to do with Bullying.

And you need to knock this shit off.

You don't have the right to drag Bill into this. This is about Hillary (who protected Bill when he was bullying) and now she is bullying using Brock to bully Bernie.

She never stood up for Monica before and she is not standing up for Bernie now.

Hillary is OK with bullying to get her way.

[Iliyah]

5. This is the look of losing

[Hoyt]

7. Yep. Sad way to exit.

[NurseJackie]

17. Final throes.

[seabeyond]

83. Exactly. A loser. Nt

[TheBlackAdder]

9. Did I just read that an "employer - subordinate sex act" being described as "former sex partner"?

.


Woo Hoo! for Third-wave Feminism there!


If I recall correctly, this wasn't the first venture away from home for that big dog.


.

[pnwmom]

11. Lewinsky even today insists that she approached him and it was completely consensual.

So I'm taking her word for it.

But in any case, it wasn't anything wrong that Hillary did, and it is despicable to use it against her.

[TheBlackAdder]

12. Regardless of what she says, it's so wrong that many states now have laws against it.

.


I can't believe the stuff I read here at times, and how people spin crap to their wishes.

Each year, for the past 15 years or so, employees in many companies must take classes on this type of "sex partner" relationship between management and subordinate. How the use and abuse of title and power is used similarly to a child sex predator.


Note: If she defines that relationship as anything but "consensual," then it redefines it as sexual predatory or rape.


.

[pnwmom]

14. The point is the Bernie campaign is using Lewinsky to attack Hillary. That's despicable. n/t

[TheBlackAdder]

15. That's valid, to a degree. But, one of WJC's contributions to society are these new HR policies. nt

[passiveporcupine]

33. The point is that they are using her as an example of bullying, not of sexual harrassment.

[radical noodle]

48. Consensual sex is not illegal (except perhaps in the military)

even if employer/employee. Women are allowed to have consensual sex with their bosses if they want unless there's a company policy against it... in which case you might be fired. You act as though a woman doesn't have sense enough to know the difference.

Trust me on this one, it's entirely possible to have consensual sex with a boss or manager... some affairs go on for years.

However, anyone having sex with a subordinate takes a risk on being charged with sexual harassment if the relationship sours OR if they require the sex to keep their job, get raises, or get any other job related advancement.

[TheBlackAdder]

70. But it's not consensual when someone holds a position of power over another. (Illegal wrong word)

.


It's not illegal, it's written into most HR policies at the state and private levels due to Title VII liabilities.


Sure, back when WJC did it, it was seen as just sleazy. But, HR in most companies and states have barred direct report relationships. If one were to start, someone would either have to move, which opens up lawsuits as to whose job gets lost (mostly the woman). It also opens up suits that an abuse of power occurred, after the relationship breaks off.


The loss of a Security Clearance is what most Federal Employees would undergo:

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/60321.htm

Guideline D:
Sexual Behavior

12. The Concern. Sexual behavior that involves a criminal offense, indicates a personality or emotional disorder, reflects lack of judgment or discretion, or which may subject the individual to undue influence or coercion, exploitation, or duress can raise questions about an individual's reliability, trustworthiness and ability to protect classified information. No adverse inference concerning the standards in the Guideline may be raised solely on the basis of the sexual orientation of the individual.

13. Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include:

(a) sexual behavior of a criminal nature, whether or not the individual has been prosecuted;

(b) a pattern of compulsive, self-destructive, or high-risk sexual behavior that the person is unable to stop or that may be symptomatic of a personality disorder;

(c) sexual behavior that causes an individual to be vulnerable to coercion, exploitation, or duress;

(d) sexual behavior of a public nature and/or that which reflects lack of discretion or judgment.

.

[radical noodle]

99. I don't disagree with that but

I disagree with the idea that consensual sex is impossible if the woman is involved with her superior or that it's illegal in some way.

I'm not an advocate, but I know too many women who fell in love and some even eventually married their bosses. It happens. This is why I think generalizing the Bill/Monica thing is wrong. No one can know for sure what happened but them. I'm sure even Hillary does not know for sure.

I also disagree with the rather strange idea that because Hillary is a feminist she should have taken Monica's side.

[TheBlackAdder]

101. Woman or man: Power can be seductive, apply tacit pressure which can affect decision making. nt

[radical noodle]

104. Agreed... but it's their decision to make if they're adults unless being coerced

Women (or men) don't need to be saved from themselves. But you're very right... power IS seductive and all you have to do is look at powerful people and their lives... including many presidents.

[TheBlackAdder]

106. Coercion is a subjective term.

.


The fact it was an inappropriate and adulterous act on Federal property shows a lack of control, which should have jeopardized his security clearance, like most other government employees would have been subjected to.


Sexual predators coerce people all the time, without their knowledge. That's what makes them successful at it.

If they were two casual acquaintances, that might be different, but a direct report is another. And if I remember correctly, he kind of told her to do it, and the thing with a cigar, that she both balked at. But history is being rewritten by apologists.


.

[passiveporcupine]

127. I'm going to try to explain why it is wrong

I know too many women who fell in love and some even eventually married their bosses. It happens.

This happened to our next door neighbor. She fell in love with my stepfather. He was having sex with her. He eventually broke up with my Mom and married her.

Yes it happens, and she did fall in love with him, but he also abused her because she was too young to be able to understand the situation and what was happening to her and how he was manipulating her.

He was sexually abusing me when I was 12, and at the same time he was sexually abusing her when she was 13 (it was consensual).

They ended up married, and in your eyes that makes it OK?

[stevenleser]

146. Did you just compare a 12 and 13 year old's ability to consent to a 22 year old's?

Not in the same universe at all.

[passiveporcupine]

149. I'm not comparing ages.

I'm trying to explain that a victim can really not know they are a victim, if they are in love or have a crush on someone who has manipulated them.

[stevenleser]

150. You may not intend to but as soon as you list the ages it's the dominating factor. It's not remotely

the same. You can't compare an adults ability to consent to a 12 and 13 year olds.

[radical noodle]

152. Your stepfather sounds like an ass

(sorry) but a 13 year old girl with your stepfather was statutory rape, pure and simple. A 13 year old girl is not mature enough to make decisions like that, even though she may wish to engage in sexual behavior. We were talking about adult women, not children, and I don't think there's any comparison unless you're implying that grown women are children when it comes to sex (and I have no reason to think that's the case).

I'm not saying anything is okay simply because they got married. Men and women sometimes cheat on their spouses. Am I a fan of this? Not at all. But I also don't like the idea that women have to be protected from their own decisions about sexual relationships. We all make bad choices, many of them involve poor choices in partners. Any intelligent woman who gets involved with a married man knows the pitfalls.

Each case must be weighed on its own because there are too many variables, but for the most part I think people should mind their own business and not think they're in any position to judge.

I am sure that my own life experiences probably color my opinion when it comes to this particular subject as do yours. And I'm really sorry for the abuse you suffered. I hope things are okay with you.

[passiveporcupine]

154. Thank you. I survived.

Any intelligent woman who gets involved with a married man knows the pitfalls.

this was a very young adult and this was not just any "married man". That is the point you all seem to be glossing over. She had a crush (crushes happen a lot when we are young...not as much as we get older) on a superstar. And if you didn't think Bill was a superstar, you weren't paying attention.

[stevenleser]

160. BTW, I am very sorry for what you experienced and I hope your stepfather ended up in prison

or some other way answering for what he did.

[passiveporcupine]

165. He never went to prison, but he did die fairly young

He had other excesses too and was overweight and his heart gave out in his early 50's.

but thank you Steve.

[Thinkingabout]

161. Yes, since Lewinsky did the approaching then perhaps she is guilty

Of sexual harassment, the law is not limited on who is in whatever position.

It is not smart to continue to bring up this RW talking point and it may be the article of women's sexual fantasies of being raped will be a great talking point. I am more concerned about someone having these thoughts of rape than I am of two consenting adults.

[passiveporcupine]

31. Just because it's consensual does not mean it wasn't innapropriate.

“Sure, my boss took advantage of me, but I will always remain firm on this point: it was a consensual relationship. Any ‘abuse’ came in the aftermath, when I was made a scapegoat in order to protect his powerful position. . . . The special prosecutor’s minions, the political operatives on both sides of the aisle, and the media were able to brand me. And that brand stuck, in part because it was imbued with power.”

And the aftermath was not consensual...he used her and abused her and threw her under the bus.

Bosses are supposed to know better than the have an affair with an employee who has a crush on them. He was her boss, he was older than her, he was a married man, and he was the President of the United States of America. And you want to make him the victim and her the perpetrator?

Some feminist you are.

[TheBlackAdder]

41. Did you post on the wrong post?

.


Refer to Reply Post #11 and my retort Reply Post #12


.

[Silver_Witch]

69. Okay - I think you are the wisest person here!!!

Second post today I have to just say you have this nailed...

[pnwmom]

119. This has NOTHING to do with Hillary. She had no obligation to champion the woman

who engaged in sex act with her husband.

[JimDandy]

39. Yes, no feminist pedestal for Hillary on this. Disgusting that she never even denounced Bill

for screwing subordinate employees. He earned the name Dawg.

No more Bushes, No more Clintons!

[840high]

50. Not the first or LAST venture

from home.

[stevenleser]

145. Did I just read another attempt to derail the discussion? Yup.nt

[TheBlackAdder]

157. If so, you possess limited critical thinking skills. Opinions, yes. Skills, questionable.

[stevenleser]

159. Nope. I know a derail when I see it. nt

[TheBlackAdder]

162. Yep, you're practicing in the art right now.

[stevenleser]

163. Nope, Pointing out a derail is not derailing. nt

[TheBlackAdder]

166. Classic obfuscation, that's all. A specialty of yours.

[stevenleser]

167. If you think so, you don't know what obfuscation means. My point is very straightfoward.

You derailed.

[TheBlackAdder]

169. In your mind it does. That's all that matters. This is going nowhere since you must win.

[morningfog]

13. Lewinsky has been a huge anti-bullying advocate.

Did Rosario say anything about Bill's affair? Did she use Bill's affair to attack Hillary?

[pnwmom]

16. Naming Lewinsky in that intro was only done to hurt Hillary. Sanders

wasn't talking about anti-bullying. The issue was irrelevant.

[morningfog]

29. So your answer to my questions is "no."

Rosario was talking about anti-bullying.

[passiveporcupine]

35. That is just bullshit.

You can't handle the fact that maybe he has a right to accuse Hillary of bulllying. Remember Brock? That is what he does. That is why she hired him.

Get over it.

[HooptieWagon]

42. Yes. Manufactured poutrage is bullshit.

OP's M.O. is to drop big stinky turds of fake outrage all over the forum. It's a Hillarian trait.

[passiveporcupine]

43. Yes, I'm getting to know this MO all too often

[Warren DeMontague]

22. "Invoking the name" - is she a demon?

Leaving aside the absurdity of the "sanders wrote rape porn" crowd preaching idnignantly about this for a moment...

Are people supposed to pretend she doesnt exist? She's right, Bullying is bad.

[Bonobo]

27. Ha ha ha! You are SO GOOD!

"Leaving aside the absurdity of the "sanders wrote rape porn" crowd preaching idnignantly about this for a moment..."

You're a fucking gold, man.

[vintx]

113. No kidding, they routinely trot out that essay

and then get out the smelling salts now that they're getting hit back.

They are NOT going to enjoy the GE, should she get the nod.

[riderinthestorm]

23. Monica Lewinsky has inserted herself into the campaign

By owning her public shaming and taking it to the people. 

She's finally gotten strong enough to come out of the shadows and lead a movement against public bullying. 

Shame on you for shitting all over her. 

Shame. 

Rosario Dawson is simply spotlighting the despicable nature of the Clintons and how they've disposed of Bills inconvenient affairs. 

Its not as though the Republicans are going to just have amnesia about this. 

Monica Lewinsky re-surfaced last year independent of Hillary's campaign and deserves every last bit of support anyone throws her way. 

[840high]

51. I wish this beautiful woman

the best in life.

[pnwmom]

55. Rosario Dawson is the one dragging Monica into this campaign and using her as a weapon

against Hillary Clinton.

Hillary isn't responsible for the actions of either Bill or Monica. They're the ones who share the blame.

[riderinthestorm]

62. Juanita Broadrrick puts paid to that lie

Hillary's attempts to denigrate her very real rape accusation are public record.

Dare we dredge up Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, etc...

Hillary’s response was to denigrate these women's claims. That's despicable and I'm utterly unwilling to endure trying to defend Bill with his misogyny and her apparent approval.

No true feminist should be minimizing this harm and it's absolutely a campaign topic.

[pnwmom]

67. Juanita is a Republican tool. I don't believe anything she says. Monica is a more honest person.

But whatever happened with any of these women was NOT Hillary's fault.

[riderinthestorm]

74. Then you've never watched her interviews. She's 100% credible

And has never taken a dime for her story.

Shame on you for denigrating her rape.

Shame.

Hillary’s entirely responsible for the coordinated attacks on these women. She's orchestrated and participated in most of them (if not all).

Read their accounts and weep.

[pnwmom]

79. She swore under penalty of perjury that he didn't rape her. Then, years later,

she allied with Rethugs and changed her story.

I found her interview not credible.

[riderinthestorm]

90. You obviously didn't watch her.

Your disgusting parsing of seual assault victims' testimony because it suits your candidate is noted
Personlly, I don't want them to ever get near the White House again.

I never want to have a conversation about the meaning of "is" again.

[pnwmom]

116. She gave her testimony under oath. That's the testimony I believe,

not her TV spot years later, arranged by a Rethug pal.

[creeksneakers2]

121. Do you have a link?

Because I never heard of Hillary saying anything about any of those women. They keep claiming she did here but nobody can give me a link on it. I think its a lie. If its "public record" then lets see the "public record."

[passiveporcupine]

133. Do you also put blame on children who have been sexually abused

Because it was consensual when it started (it often is)?

I mean seriously, because young people having a crush on a super famous person is very much like the crush little girls have on the family pedophile who abuses them.

so, do you blame them too?

[pnwmom]

136. Monica wasn't a child. She was a 22 year old college graduate when it began

and she was 24 when she stupidly decided to share with Linda Tripp, the person who secretly taped their conversations.

Monica herself, even today as a middle aged woman, strongly objects to the idea that the sex wasn't consensual.

[Bonobo]

25. Calling a victim a "narcissistic loony" is not a nice thing.

Especially since she was like Bill's 4th or 5th victim (that we know of).

[dflprincess]

38. One might even call it sexist. nt

[Demsrule86]

46. She was not a victim

She was the other woman...an adult who chose to have sex with a married man...and you all suck for even discussing it..won't help your sorry candidate...he has lost...deal with it. And all this crap makes me dislike him more...I am at the point if I see his hypocritical face I turn off the TV. It happened 30 years ago...people.

[Bonobo]

47. OMG, she was just 22 years old and he was her boss and the President of the US.

Do you even know what sexual harassment in the workplace is?

[SusanCalvin]

92. ^THIS^

[treestar]

138. Should the age of majority be raised?

Suppose I fall for my boss? I Have to get another job? Is it rape?

[Seeinghope]

58. Now you kind of know how Bernie Sanders supporters feel

Everything that we know and keep hearing and seeing of Hillary Clinton makes us dislike her even more. Only we have a couple of decade for all of these things to have built up. So if you wonder why our tone can be so over the top at times, consider that so many of us have watched Hillary Clinton do much worse things than Bernie Sanders bringing up Monica Lewinsky for decades and many of those things cost people there lives.

[m-lekktor]

75. yeah they were just two adults, equal in power relations and age, having an affair!

Nothing to see here move along...

seriously do you need this explained to you VERY SLOWLY?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Only in a parallel universe can the cuckquean not be the wronged and innocent party.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Monical Lewinsky is a part of the historical record, and Hillary's husband has been out there on the

stump, campaigning for Hillary.

Now, obviously that deal wasn't HRC's fault, and I defended Bill Clinton during that whole mess... but he shouldn't have got up there and wagged the finger at the country with "I DID NOT..."

For him to get up in front of a crowd and AGAIN wag that same finger in defense of the drug war, in defense of the policies which have people serving 10 year prison sentences for growing pot to ease their chemo nausea... sorry, but you forfeit some of the right to be a sanctimonious jerk when you fall down so publicly due to your own fuckup.

And he's campaigning for her. His administration is part of HER resume, as she is presenting it.

[SusanCalvin]

94. The *what*??? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. It's the female version of a cuckold.

[SusanCalvin]

98. Ummmnkay.... nt

[hellofromreddit]

131. "cuck"

For anyone not familiar with the term or the caliber of people using it, I refer you to: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/search?q=cuck&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all

Not safe for work.

[passiveporcupine]

28. They are not talking about Bill, but instead Monica's new campaign against bullying.

It's actually quite apropos in this situation, because Brock and Hillary have been bullying. It's her style and it's his job.

[Baobab]

36. fact is, Bill did something extremely stupid

Bill wasnt Hillary, I know. But there is no denying that the country paid a high price for the dysfunctional last few years of the Clinton Administration.


We should remember that, suppose Hillary does something equally stupid, the country could be deprived of any kind of decent leadership for years while we wait for her term to end.

[Demsrule86]

45. Not as high as we will pay if you Bernie groupies

help elect a Republican in the fall...you are on dangerous ground here.

[840high]

53. The dangerous ground starts

with a crooked candidate I will not vote for.

[Baobab]

105. And Hillary is?

nt

[HooptieWagon]

37. You're pro-bullying? That figures.

Or perhaps you have a severe comprehension problem.

[Demsrule86]

44. I suppose Bernie smiled and nodded

He needs to get out and soon...or he will be finished.

[Joe the Revelator]

49. A form of bullying....give me a fucking break....this is politics at a VERY high level....

This is patty cake compared to what Trump is going to say about her and Bill.

[Gothmog]

52. Sanders is not going to be the nominee

This attack will hurt sanders

[hollysmom]

54. well that is about a stupid as when we were told that women who don't vote for women are all going

hell. the people who introduce you can say anything, whatcha gonna do?

[NCTraveler]

65. Sanders has lost all control of his camp. Nt

[JI7]

66. i wouldn't really consider Rosario Dawson as Bernie's official Campaign .

she is a supporter who says things .

but it's not like it's officially from Sander's campaign.

[Unicorn]

71. I fail to see the problem. Monica is right, bullying is bad. This was used in correct context.

[seabeyond]

80. Sanders has nothing to gain but let people see the contemptable man he is. Clinton of course will

Simply rise above. It does underscore how he sees women and their roles.

[Bonobo]

100. And THAT underscores how YOU see them apparently.

Post #84 could be written to you as well.

[seabeyond]

107. 84 has nothing to do with Sanders being an ass using it as a weapon against Hillary. I am certinaly

not discussing and being lectured on feminism by either you or Prism.

[Bonobo]

108. Sounds like someone needs to straighten you out.

Defending Hillary seems to have really messed you up if you are saying that Lewinsky was not a victim of sexual harassment.

[seabeyond]

110. Maybe you ought to re read my two posts instead of making shit up.

[pnwmom]

118. Monica herself says she was not the victim of sexual harassment, that she initiated it and

their relations were consensual.

What she objected to was their treatment of her after Linda Trump exposed her.

[Prism]

84. "A form of bullying"

And this is how I know all logic and critical thinking has gone off the rails.

So a powerless subordinate, in a relationship with the most powerful man in the world, is an object being used to bully.

Bully.

Do you know what that word even means?

And then that 23 year old was dragged to hell and back, with Clinton surrogates basically painting her as a deranged stalker.

And she's the bully.

I bet you call yourself a feminist. It's funny how all the tenets of that ideology are immediately set aside in order to defend the Clintons.

They must be super special.

[Blaukraut]

102. I knew it was inevitable. I just thought that only the Republicans would stoop that low.

Lesson learned.

[MichiganVote]

109. Yup. Agree. Pathetic.

[runaway hero]

103. How is this bad?

It's politics.

[frustrated_lefty]

111. Grow Up.

It's a valid issue and it's a criticism that WOULD come up in a general election.

Bill boinking Monica is irrelevant. The manner in which Hillary demeaned so many accusers is the point. She shows crappy judgment in both her personal and professional life.

[vintx]

112. Butbutbut... he did NOT have sex, with that woman!

Which one of them called her trailer trash?

I can't remember.

[snowy owl]

114. Why pay attention to this stuff? Non-starter.

[cherokeeprogressive]

125. Is she tough? Or not so tough?

[riversedge]

130. As severe despiration sets in, we can expect new lows from Bernie surrogates.

[stevenleser]

147. Nailed it. Drop the mic, done. nt

[Voice for Peace]

137. Bill comes w the wife

There is plenty of reason to bring him and his history into the calculation. Think the opposition disagrees?

[pnwmom]

141. Bill's popularity was at his highest AFTER his impeachment. The general population

likes him a lot more than Rethugs do.

[Voice for Peace]

144. Probably most of them are in old age homes.

Or gone to meet their maker.
"It's a new world,.Golda!"

[BeyondGeography]

151. Bernie has some hotheaded surrogates, but until he goes there personally

I will keep my powder dry.

[Vinca]

155. Better get used to it.

Back in the day Hillary called them "bimbo eruptions." I think that's what we'll be experiencing for the next 6 months.

[Demnorth]

156. 6 degrees of separation.

Now how to introduce something to blast Clinton?: Clinton supporters are bullying Sanders supporters....who's been speaking out against bullying? Monica Lewinsky...connection to The Clintons....yes!

I saw the clip, and it even fell flat with the audience. Sanders sidestepped the question of taking responsibility, with Jake Tapper. Sanders shouldn't have spokespeople like this, the surrogate Dawson's negative comments after Dr. Song intro'd him using the comment about "corporate Democratic whores".

Disappointing for him that he has such negative spokespeople, when his promise is all positive.

[beedle]

170. Spoken like a true Hillary feminist®

It's always the "woman's®" fault ..... unless of course there's a way to lay all the blame on Bernie Sanders.

In this case you've managed to do both it seems.

You've made Hillary proud.

[Autumn]

171. The republicans will bring up all of his former sex partners. Suggest you get used to it and buy a

shitload of smelling salts should she win the nomination, I plan on buying a lot of popcorn myself.

[pnwmom]

177. At least you're admitting these people are behaving as badly as the Rethugs. Thanks. nt

[Autumn]

178. You should try listening to what she said. I fully support what she said about Monica but then I

support all women where some of you only support Hillary.

[pnwmom]

179. She just looked for a way to insert Monica's name into her intro. What a nasty person.

And so is anyone who condones her slimy attack.

[Autumn]

182. Monica speaks out against bullying and Monica's stand on bullying fit what

Rosario was saying. Like I said, stock up on smelling salts if Monica's name make you uncomfortable, it will be inserted a lot.

[pnwmom]

186. Monica is speaking out on bullying, of the kind that Bernie supporters are experts in.

They should listen to her, not invoke her name against Hillary.

[Autumn]

187. Stings does it that she was brought up and will be brought up again?

[kstewart33]

175. Well if that's how the game is playing, then Bernie's past Communist and Marxist relationships...

Are fair game.

Cue the videos!

[riversedge]

181. Dawson embarrasses herself as well as the Sanders campaign by bringing this up

[beedle]

183. Sorry, I always get confused on this relationship

was it Bill's former sex partner Monica, or Monica's former sex partner Bill?

And when someone talks about Monica being bullied, why should Clinton supporters bullying be seen as somehow bullying Hillary?

If Hillary thinks that politically speaking Bill is too close to her and any mention of his ex sex partner is meant as a bully tactic toward her, then she should do what she always does when someone, some group, or something might cause her campaign harm ... jettison Bill like she just did with her staunch anti-gun rhetoric.

[pnwmom]

185. Rosario has chosen to invoke the name of Monica in order to attack Hillary Clinton.

Monica was the woman who decided to enter into a sexual relationship with Bill (not caring about the fact that he was married or that they would be hurting his wife) and then blabbed about her exploits with Linda Tripp, who secretly recorded their chats and turned them over to the Rethugs.

Democrats who invoke Monica's name to attack Hillary are as bad as the Rethugs who do so.

[Gothmog]

184. The Sanders campaign is losing and so are getting nasty

This is a really sad line of attack