2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat has Bernie Sanders done in his long career to suggest he could start a revolution?
As far as I'm aware, Bernie Sanders is not responsible for pushing through any revolutionary change while in the senate/congress/mayor. Nor has he shown an ability to get major groups to rally behind him. He also isn't energizing any revolutionary amount of political activism or voter turnout from his supporters.
What convinces Bernie supporters that he has what it takes to deliver on even half of his campaign promises given the fact that he's running for president and not King, and won't be able to achieve many of his promises without huge support in the senate, house and state governments? What convinces you that he can be an agent of such revolutionary change?
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)So if you want to feed your family, the highest she'll go is $12/hr, but if you want to praise her...
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Do you know what is meant by 'revolution'?
qdouble
(891 posts)just not convinced that one will occur in regards to Bernie
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And taking power back from the super rich.
qdouble
(891 posts)Or will he accomplish this revolution via executive order?
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Were you really not aware that the revolution is already under way, and that that's why Sanders finally ran for president?
You would be correct to wonder what will become of it, but to identify it with Sanders himself is a mistake.
Csainvestor
(388 posts)No superpac, no corporate money, only small donations, the entire establishment against him and yet he is within Striking Distance.
Hillary would be nowhere without establishment backing and corporate money.
qdouble
(891 posts)as much as it is about just asking honestly, how would he be able to deliver on his promises. His fundraising is respectable, but that doesn't convince me that he'll be able to ram his agenda through congress at a high success rate or that all the states will be on board.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)That's why.
His adherents require no facts, no details, no solid plans.
If Bernie says he can lead a revolution, that's the end of the discussion.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)It was just a statement of fact.
Amaril
(1,267 posts)You have no way of knowing what each and every person who supports Bernie Sanders thinks or believes.
Stuff you actually know = fact
Stuff you made up = opinion
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)As to how all this will happen.
Details please.
Details. Please respond with the facts.
the funny thing is I'm not really attacking Bernie or saying he's a bad person or that his plans are bad. I'm just asking what convinces them that he can push his agenda through congress and get all the states to cosign.
That's apparently trolling here
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)And I did not mean to imply that what you're asking is not a valid question.
But you're asking that question on a site that is comprised of 85% BS supporters, so you're not likely to get a definitive answer - any more than Bernie seems capable of giving a definitive answer himself.
For BS supporters, if Bernie says he can do something, that means he will do it. They tend to think it inexplicably odd that anyone would ask "how".
dchill
(38,472 posts)Squeeze on.
insta8er
(960 posts)Just not now...ok? Now go and vote for me.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... is a right-wing creation. Why am I not surprised that it is being promoted here?
insta8er
(960 posts)Come back at me being a racist, or that Ima. Communist..,anti capitalist...all nice things your team has created to define the other side. And what did she say? Yes we can but maybe tomorrow? We are perfectly capable of coming up with that one ourselves...it's a easy shot.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)insta8er
(960 posts)You out on memes your side has been using? I see it is inconvenient to be called out yourself...but boy do you want to dish stuff out yourself. Nance vote for your Candidate, and watch her hand over your social security check to her banker friends while you are humbly calling her madam president. In the end you lose.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)But Sarah does it better.
insta8er
(960 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)If it does not fit your definition of revolution, that is fine. I am happy to call it a movement.
qdouble
(891 posts)I'm just not convinced that he'll be able to accomplish half of what he's promising and I'm asking why are you convinced?
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)He has MAJORITY public support.
However, he, like many of us, have been betrayed by a system where public support doesn't mean anything, b/c almost everyone is on the take.
The majority WANTS single payer: http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/229959-majority-still-support-single-payer-option-poll-finds But, for some reason Obama and Hillary BOTH took it off the table in the health care debate. We started from the Heritage foundation plan.
The majority WANTS free public college: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-most-support-making-college-free/article/2572333
But, this is a complete non-starter for Obama and Hillary, b/c it involves an FTT (something the big banks don't really want b/c they will feel the brunt of it with high volume trading).
If you go through all of Sanders major issue, he has STRONG MAJORITY support for each one of them.
Why has never led a revolution before, b/c he was a single person fighting from within a corrupt system. As President, he gets the bully pulpit. He gets to hold people accountable and with strong public support and the faith in the person at the top to follow through, he will continue to get the support that Obama lost between 2008 and 2010, after he gave away the public option.
qdouble
(891 posts)I'm more convinced that they don't think that it's politically possible to push that agenda without having a super majority and to accomplish it with all the lobbying that would go into dismantling any such plan.
Free public college is not a bad idea either... but the question is what can be accomplished given our current political realities.
Most stable governments are not set up to allow for drastic change in a short period of time.... given the division of government and competing political interests. I'm not seeing much to suggest that Bernie could circumvent all of it to push drastic change given the limited power of a president.
you don't quite get it do you? Our current political realities is what the fuck we are trying to change, she is the status quo candidate and the status quo sucks..More of the same old shit is not gonna work any more...
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)insta8er
(960 posts)Interest who have so generously contributed to my elections n campaign.
basselope
(2,565 posts)You can't accomplish anything if you don't have goals and this very government did undergo drastic change in a short period of time.
We had the New Deal, which was drastic change. We even went the other way with Reaganomics.
Free public college is a goal. It won't happen overnight.. same with Single Payer. The problem with the ACA is that it takes us FURTHER from single payer. The only way to move towards it was to START IT with a public option, but that got sold out.
qdouble
(891 posts)With the current house and senate make up and with the current actions of many republican governors, I simply don't think single player would get passed if Bernie became president. Doesn't mean that I think it's a bad idea or that Hillary's plan is necessarily better than Bernie's plan... just that I think he is over promising on things that won't be delivered in the next 4-8 years and there is nothing wrong with Dems preferring what they see as being more pragmatic and accomplishable in the current political climate.
basselope
(2,565 posts)And Bernie isn't PROMISING Single Payer. It is part of his platform, which are GOALS.
Bernie has never said "we will have single payer, I will force it through". He has always said that was a goal.
The pragmatic and accomplishable is "nothing" with this congress and any projected one with Clinton as the nominee.
Obama HAD a majority in congress and the Senate, but took single payer off the table before the debate even started.
Worse, he dumped the public option when we could have had it via reconciliation.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)Can't say the same for his opponents.
qdouble
(891 posts)I'm simply questioning whether or not he can deliver because I'm not convinced by his record that he can.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
insta8er
(960 posts)Speeches, you would have heard him say that. This is the first step in a series of changes that need to happen. But we as Americans can't possibly take on something that bold so we stick with the corrupt system that the only benefits the rich.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It's obvious that this poster a) doesn't know what he's talking about and b) doesn't care. He's just here to insult us.
/ignore list.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)The Revolution isn't him it is us .. The Emperor wears no clothes.. lot's of people see that now than did a year ago..
We are the Revolution
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... can't be bothered to go out and vote for their Revolutionary Leader in numbers sufficient enough for him to win the nomination.
But maybe there was a "big game" on the night of the Revolution, and they preferred to watch that instead.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Urchin
(248 posts)is, "What did Bernie Sanders not do?"
And possible answers might be "Cater to lobbyists" or "Profess to believe whatever cause would further his career"
qdouble
(891 posts)that still doesn't mean he'd be able to push half of what he says he wants to do through congress or get states to sign on.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)than where we start them nowadays under Third Way thinking. That means we will still get more under a Progressive, even if it's not the dream package, and that's enough for me!
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)...And minorities than Hillary ever have done and ever will do....
If you trust Hillary to push for PROGRESSIVE ideals, think again.
If you have 225 000 to spare and some fat donations, the chances are she will listen to you more closely than BLM, and union workers.
And if you think that Hillary is more energiing and enthusiastic than Bernie supporters, I am looking forward to the next clip where she gathers 20 000 people in one place just to listen to her double talk.
qdouble
(891 posts)it's about whether Bernie is over promising and whether his supporters believe that he can really push his agenda through the other branches of government.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)Bernie says that it's a collective effort.
With Hillary, it's all about her and how she will be that knight in shining armour. She will fix everything as if she has more appeal to republicans on progressive issues than Bernie. As if she won't turn coat the minute she have suckered you into voting for her.
If you support republican lite politics, and equally empty promises from Hillary, I hope you have a job to lose when she implements TPP....
I hope you have a kid to sacrifice for her future wars.
And I hope you are happy and content with a 12 dollars an hour minimum wage as well as big favors for Wall Street. She thinks 15 dollars are too much, but think she's worth 225 000 for a half hour of cheer leading criminal bankers who defrauded you and many others.
I wonder what kind of Hillary you think will be in Office.
I wonder if she will push for a corporate agenda, or a progressive agenda. I wonder if she will bring those Super-bankers to heel like she advocated doing to black kids. I wonder if she thinks that bankers who kick out families from their homes, and keeps the bailout money for themselves to gamble with are people without conscience or empathy.
I mean, we can always debate how the bankers turned out that way, but first we must bring them to heel.
Her voting record will give you a clue.
And for the record.
She is not a leader.
She is a follower. She wants others to show transparency before she does, and puts her own bar on the level of republicans.
She said "let Bernie show his transcripts first". He did And then she moved the goalpost and included republicans as if they were ever a part of a democratic debate. She says "everybody else is doing it.!
NOT a leader!
I wonder why so many Hillary supporters are bat shit blind to her double talk while you are obsessed with minutia from Bernie, taking cheap talking points from your party apparatchik.
The other difference between Hillary and Bernie, is that he doesn't lie, and he sticks with his principles while Hillary is all over the place.
I mean, do Hillary supporters have a single independent thought and ideas
Vote Hillary! Vote more of this!
Bahing Bernie or his supporters while holding Hillary to a different standard as well as acting like she is as fragile as a china doll who can't be upset won't get you many friends among real liberals...
So stop pretending to be one....
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)The OP asks what he's done - not can he get what he promises now done. But past behavior often predicts future behavior. I'll put my money on Bernie.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)He helped give legal immunity to gun manufacturers. Can't have a revolution without plenty of guns, right?
He voted for the war in Afghanistan, so he has some experience with regime change.
He successfully infiltrated a political party that he opposes, despite previously claiming that "It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And don't forget the long radio career devoted to bashing Dems for whatever they managed to accomplish.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)A reliable bash for any show in need of the latest anti-Dem talking point or more likely the one before. That's not where I first heard of him in 92, but it's how I kept track of him over the years, and I always thought, there's got to be more to this guy than regurgitating back issues of the Nation. Turns out there isn't.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)DO NOT REPLY you are /ignore.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)of socialist white guys who were out of touch with each other by moving away from scary black people to Vermont where they could be right regardless of how small a group they actually were. They actually elected a socialist to the US Senate. And what followed in the years since has been ... well, nothing really. But they are worked up about it.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Disgusting doesn't even begin to describe it.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)Sanders is such a huge phony that he doesn't know it.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)comments are deeply listened to and widely respected and he has this record
of effectiveness that many people are aware of, particularly those who
served in the House. When he was mayor of Burlington, he preceded to
reshape the waterfront. He had a baseball team. He set them up as a
lovable city, as a kind of a model for the nation.
When he was in the House, out of 435 members of the House, he was known as
the king of amendments, the single House member most effective in getting
amendments past, and these were things relevant to working Americans.
And in the Senate, he has proceeded to be the leader on expanding our
federally qualified health centers, which are the front door for millions
of Americans to our health care system. And he put together a bipartisan
veterans bill that is the most important veterans bill we`ve had in years,
and he`s taken the lead and taken on chained CPI to make sure that our
seniors didn`t get shortchanged. And the list goes on. So
AND HILLARY'S ACHIEVEMENTS ARE . . . ?
https://web.archive.org/web/20160314164825/http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/us/politics/bernie-sanders-amendments.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Through wheeling and dealing, shaming and cajoling, Mr. Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, got his wish, and his favored provision was grafted incongruously onto a tough-minded Republican border security amendment and paid for by higher visa fees for some foreign travelers.
The immigration bill, opposed by House Republicans, never became law. But the jobs program amendment was classic Bernie Sanders, a self-described Democratic socialist who has spent a quarter-century in Congress working the side door, tacking on amendments to larger bills that scratch his particular policy itches, generally focused on working-class Americans, income inequality and the environment.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)...in this very primary.
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Not into trolls.
senz
(11,945 posts)He has awakened the Millennial generation and reinvigorated a lot of older people like me.
He has started a conversation that can be heard all over the nation.
He's even pushed a corporatist like Hillary to the left and radically changed her stump speech.
Furthermore, Bernie Sanders has spent his life as a strong, outspoken advocate for civil rights for ALL people.
Unlike "some" candidates, Bernie Sanders PASSIONATELY CARES about people and is not afraid to stand up for what he believes in. He is exceptional.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Vinca
(50,261 posts)The first thing he did when he was elected Mayor of Burlington was to walk door-to-door in the poor neighborhoods to ask residents what they needed to improve their lives. He puts people over money. If that's not revolutionary for a politician, I don't know what is.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Amaril
(1,267 posts)EVERYbody knows that it is Hillary's time. How dare he try to usurp when it's her turn.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I don't think there is such thing as a "her turn" as you do. I wish it was O'Malley's turn.
2banon
(7,321 posts)now good bye Brock. go back to your cave and see if you can come up with a more intelligent meme.. practice practice practice.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)But he's not so good in getting results as indicated in his 25 year Congressional record. Three sponsored bills (co-sponsors simply add their names to the bill) - and two named Vermont post offices.
So far, his movement has depended on his considerable advocacy skills. However, the next step is organizing and growing the movement. It will be interesting to see whether he is up to this task. I hope that he is.
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)And if he doesn't, it's moot.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Ino
(3,366 posts)[URL=http://www.sherv.net/][IMG][/IMG][/URL]