The adults in the room have to show up and vote in November, it is our responsibility to do so.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

Many of us wont be thrilled about it if Hillary wins, some wont be if Bernie wins, I am in the first camp as I support Bernie.

But you see if I refuse to show up in November for any reason, or If I vote for a 3rd party who cannot and will not win, I am shirking my responsibility as an adult who must participate.

So, we have concluded that the adult votes for one of the two who can win, so who are you voting for?

[peacebird]

1. As a solid D voter for the past 41 years, I will show up and vote. Guarenteed. Against Hills

Because she is anti everything I support in the D party.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

2. Just say you will be voting for the republican.

[peacebird]

5. No. Hills is the R light that I will not vote for.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

7. If you are going to vote in November and not for her if she wins, then you are voting R.

Period.

Not my making, yours.

[peacebird]

20. Yours. You are pushing a corporatist warhawk. I have worked hard to get Bernie elected. if your

Teams corruption and voter disenfranchisement wins, it is totally on YOU and DWS

[peacebird]

121. LOL! Bro? How about a woman who believes Hill is the evil one

[artislife]

132. What about the OP writer?

This kind of OP writer makes me want to put Prince on the Ballot.


ETA, central coaster is pretty much spot on.

[840high]

120. I'll be voting for democrat - Bernie.

[Skink]

3. Republican or Republican light

That's the choice.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

4. Women dying in back alleys or not dying in back alleys, that is the choice, actually.

[peacebird]

11. And Hills is ok with limiting abortion rights as long as there is exception for moms health

[Jackie Wilson Said]

35. Not crazy about her either, but compared to the alternative, no brainer.

[bjo59]

32. What about the millions of women suffering and dying

in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen? No, I won't be voting for the corporatist war hawk (who takes big fat donations to her private foundation from the Saudis) under any circumstances.

[MH1]

111. Because President Trump will do less of that?

[840high]

122. Those women don't matter to

Clinton supporters.

[artislife]

133. The planet is dying

and you want the person most responsible for spreading fracking around the globe...smh

[timmymoff]

6. As a 50 year old adult

I'll sit out the presidential election if Hillary is nominated. I've no interest in carrying on the third way tradition of moving toward the right.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

10. In that case I will hope many will vote in your place to protect women, minorities, etc.

Since you wont be willing to do your adult responsibility.

[timmymoff]

15. In that case

you will be voting for more free trade deals, that harm the poor, so tell me how it protects the groups you mentioned?

[artislife]

134. They can't.

But they love to try to shame people.

[LondonReign2]

45. Third Way bullshit arguments, just like th Koch's wanted

when they funded the start up.

The corporatist was hawks don't give a flying fuck about social issues, so they are perfectly fine using them to give the illusion of choice.

Want to play silly "your adult responsibility" games? Ok, then your adult responsibility is to not vote for someone that will move us merrily ever further rightward.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

48. I will ignore your insults and state this simply, EVEN if the choice was

down to something as simple as someone who supports women's rights and someone who doesnt, how is that a hard choice?

[LondonReign2]

56. There will be multiple candidates on the ballot that support women's rights.

I don't have to vote for Kissinger's mentee to select on that does.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

57. But only two candidates can win, this is a known fact. By not voting for either you are

avoiding being part of the process and resolving the issue.

You can do that, if you choose, but it is terribly irresponsible.

[LondonReign2]

62. Again, when you've successfully passed a logic class let's talk again

[Jackie Wilson Said]

65. Go ahead and explain to me cuz I am a dunce. YOu have two choice but choose neither and you

are the logical one?

[LondonReign2]

76. As I said below, endlessly repeating the same false statement doesn't make it any truer than

the first time you misstated it. We will all have more than two choices.

[Ghost Dog]

108. You have already acknowledged, in spite of asserting that there are only two choices

(actually, one choice between two,) that there are at least three (or two).

Logic is truth; truth beauty.

[Laffy Kat]

82. I'm with you.

I'm afraid more women and girls will die if a Republican is elected. HRC will protect our access to contraception and choice. There is no other option but to vote Demo. In that way, this Democrat is a one-issue voter.

[lostnfound]

8. Gotta be there to vote for down ticket Dems.

Maybe I'll leave a hanging chad somewhere though, in honor of our corrupt election process.

[Aerows]

27. ^THIS^

This primary makes a mockery of democracy.

Maybe we might as well start calling ourselves living in a land of demockery.

Everybody that is okay with the things that have gone on during the Primary are welcome to their opinion, but I don't share it.

[artislife]

136. "living in a land of demockery"

Classic!

[Aerows]

138. It seems to be where we are at!

What scares me is when a large amount of the American public wakes the hell up and discovers it, too.

[artislife]

143. Count on it

The only thing that is going to die quicker than this planet is a nation that used to called the United States...

[Duckhunter935]

9. My state will not matter

So I can vote my conscience

[insta8er]

12. Don't count on the independents if $hill is the candidate, because they are not democrats you know.

and could not pass the purity test.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

14. So you will be voting R. Got it.

[insta8er]

19. I won't be voting anything, so you can put your judgmental attitude back to where you found it.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

21. By not participating you are absolutely voting R. And, I should add, shirking your responsibility.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. No he or she is not

and that attitude is part of the problem, By the way.. here for you.

U.S. turnout in 2012 was 53.6%, based on 129.1 million votes cast for president and an estimated voting-age population of just under 241 million people. Among OECD countries, the highest turnout rates were in Belgium (87.2%), Turkey (86.4%) and Sweden (82.6%). Switzerland consistently has the lowest turnout, with just 40% of the voting-age population casting ballots in the 2011 federal legislative elections, the most recent.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/06/u-s-voter-turnout-trails-most-developed-countries/

I get tired of people like you shitting on the voters, or potential voters. It is not them who are at issue here. So stop it.

[Aerows]

52. I honestly think they smell disaster in the wind

and are trying to rope people into voting for a candidate that will in no way, shape or form ever make it to the Presidency with an FBI investigation and the Clinton Foundation hanging around her neck.

Republicans will ardently vote against her. Independent support for her will be, at best, tepid. Democrats loyal to the party will vote for her, but with a bucketful of resentment in more than a few cases.

This is the full court press. If Bernie does well tomorrow, he can approach California with confidence. Which, obviously, scares the shit out of Hillary supporters.

They are absolutely DYING to go into GE mode, because the longer Hillary attempts to pretend to be on the left, the harder it will be on her when she swings right (and I don't think anybody has any illusions whatsoever that she won't go right).

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Whether Bernie does well or not does not matter at this point

She will be the nominee. It will be a disaster. She loses in the GE we will be blamed for it. She wins, and I am thinking the early 2000s... you read enough into this crap and how chummy they all are at that level...of income. The fact that Charles Koch endorsed her (before tomorrow), was the final nail for me. This Democratic party does not want me to vote in any election and will blame me for their disasters anyway.

So they can punch anybody they want. I am just, at this point, laughing at the spectacle. The fact that we all see though the transparent media, is very much how empires and oligarchies act as they approach the end though.

But she will be the nominee. Now I will pretend to vote in illegitimate elections that really do not represent my political views at all, but only becuase voting is a habit at this point. But when voters are caged to this extent in a primary for god sakes, and are prevented from voting, I am sorry, I cannot consider that election legitimate, and November, this is just a dress rehearsal.

[pkdu]

117. Who is this we" you speak of , Oh Independent Journo?

Just stop the pretense , it's unbecoming.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Ah personal attack

I love them, Keep them coming.

These days I collect them like other people collect stamps, or toy fire trucks. And they don't take much space either.

[pkdu]

125. Not personal. Nothing wrong with supporting Bernie . Heck , my wife does...

But she doesnt say she a " just the facts M'aam" arbiter of truth. You clearly have a horse in the race , even tho you often claim you don't. How is that personal?

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. Yeah, whatever

have a good day,

[artislife]

137. Like a frothing at the mouth hound.

[imari362]

61. Thank You

They refuse to understand this.


The continued insults and supposed fear tactics towards voters are long past the sell by date.

[insta8er]

31. By voting for $hill I would be voting for a republican in disguise. By voting for Trump I would be

voting for a bigoted Republican. These are my choices, none of which I believe I can justify to my daughters.

[Aerows]

33. No one has the responsibility

to vote for a candidate that gets the nomination via a rigged primary.

A candidate that is under investigation by the FBI.

We all make our own choices privately in the voting booth.

[LondonReign2]

51. Never took a logic class, did you?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

54. It is logical to avoid your problems by not addressing them? Since when?

[LondonReign2]

60. If you don't understand that voting for candidate C does not add to candidate A's vote total

I'm not sure I can help you

[Aerows]

77. I straight up addressed my issues in this thread

And I noticed that you avoided them to go after somebody else.

I'll be glad to address some problems when you decide to move away from the kiddie table.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

85. Busy thread, saw yours now. Easy peasy. You have two choices, one is the Democrat and one

is the Republican, NOTHING you can say will change that.

sounds like you are deciding to shirk your duty

[Aerows]

98. Shirk my duty?

I have absolutely no duty to vote for anybody than the person I choose to vote for. You won't be coming into the voting booth with me, either.

This attempted intellectual (not impressively attempted, either) bullying is about as effective on me as a sack of feathers. Let me know when the actual verbal pugilism begins, because right now? It is pretty damn lame.

[LondonReign2]

123. You have two choices...NOTHING you can say will change that.

Except that it is false. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat a false statement, it doesn't become true through repetition.

I've seen kindergarteners more willing who grasped the concept more quickly.

[Duckhunter935]

88. No we will not be

Some states like mine will not matter and I will vote in all of the down ticket races for the liberal or democratic ticket.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

90. Then the question is are you talking, posting, expressing yourself in such a way so as to

convince others not to vote for Hillary if she is the nominee who are in states where it will matter?

[Duckhunter935]

103. No, nice try to get me stoned, lol

I have my vote and will vote or not vote as I please. I am not telling otbers to do anything unlike you. It is a secret ballot and I give them the credit to vote however they want.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. This concept of the secret ballot escapees the OP

[Duckhunter935]

128. Indeed so, and the poster is

transparent. Begging me to answer in a way that is against the TOS. Interesting

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. Yup, she even thought she got me

when I stated the fact, that some folks, nearly the majority, will stay home if current trends prevail

[artislife]

139. They have claimed to be a Bernie supporter

I have yet to see anything that looks like even a kind word, hell a word about the candidate that is isolated from hills.

[840high]

124. Stop being dense. Those are not

the only choices.

[RadiationTherapy]

13. Only adults can vote, so that seems a extraneous description of a voter.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

16. You bet, so which party are you voting for?

[RadiationTherapy]

68. I vote democratic.

[In_The_Wind]

17. I'll be voting. Oh, and so did the Jury:

6:50 PM
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AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message

On Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:44 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The adults in the room have to show up and vote in November, it is our responsibility to do so.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511832049

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Describing others at not being adults is actually quite juvenile. The irony. Disruptive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:50 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think it's pretty well worded. Certainly nothing disruptive in it.

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: @Alerter: I agree with your description 100%. But, even as a Hillary supporter, I cannot in good conscience vote to hide this. I concur that it's juvenile, but in my opinion, this doesn't rise to the level of breaking any rules that would make it worthy of being hidden. (Sorry, Alerter.)

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This was a waste of an alert. I hope it's 7-0 to Leave It.

Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Wah wah wah, alerter.. cry me a river. You're "disruptive". How about that?

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Frivolous alert.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[IADEMO2004]

18. Think House and Senate majorities, Supreme Court to keep a president on the right track

[scottie55]

22. I Don't Believe A Word Hillary Says

And I will probably still vote for her.

Unless Bernie does a write in campaign.

Then I think he would be president if he did.

Of course they made that impossible.

Hillary, or Trump?

Do you want to be shot, or stabbed?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Actually that is not the adult thing to do

and the power structure counts on that attitude to continue to have SOME legitimacy.

The adult thing to do is recognize the issues with the system... voter suppression, voter caging, et al... but just voting, that is what they are counting on, Or rather they prefer some of us do not vote.

I will "vote" for whom, the vote is private, but I do not count on that vote to count as cast. The system is no longer legitimate either. Now a lot of the kids already know this... and that is why they don't vote to begin with.

Until we stop just going though the motions and pretend there is no problem... but then again that i snot a discussion I can expect YET in the United States. Oh some corners you can, but for the most part you can't.

[scottie55]

25. You Can Vote, But It Won't Be Counted

The machines have already been programmed.

Just pretend your vote matters, and go about your day.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Everybody should vote for their preferred candidate as dictated by their principles.

I will.

Note: Principles differ among adults.

[IdaBriggs]

28. The complete lack of faith in Hillary's integrity is what is stopping

people from jumping on your bandwagon.

There is NO ISSUE, including abortion, that she has not pandered to the opposition on.

She has brought up CONSTITUTIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON ABORTION and indicated a willingness to compromise on this. There is video and it is recent.

[Demsrule86]

37. maybe so but I doubt it as she would never get re-elected

However ...we know that Cruz and Trump will outlaw it. So don't make excuses for shirking your duty as a Democrat and human being

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Hello, how is the weather...

wherever you are? Nice talking points there

[Aerows]

114. Okay, this is the second time in this thread

of a rather infrequently used phrase "shirking your duty"

Jesus Christ can they not afford to give you flash cards with other sayings, such as "failing as a citizen" or even something more interesting like "I am tending to your business whether you like it or not and demand that you tell me how you are voting".

Back the hell up already, and talk to the hand because the face isn't listening.

[Art_from_Ark]

126. Cruz and Trump would not outlaw abortion

Abortion has been a wedge issue for more than 40 years, and the Republicans like it that way. If a President actually wanted to and had the power to outlaw abortion, Reagan or Bush Jr. would already have done it.

[artislife]

140. What is this with "shirking your duty" bullshit?

I thought the party had a duty to its members, not the other way around.

[Agnosticsherbet]

29. I will vote for the Democratic Nominee in November. I consider it a responsibility of citizenship

to help elect the government that represents me.

[Demsrule86]

34. I support Hillary

I would vote for the Democratic candidate.

[Live and Learn]

36. Adults need to QUIT voting for warmongers. period! nt

[Jackie Wilson Said]

38. Count another one who will shirk duty.

[Live and Learn]

43. Count another one that won't be responsible for Hillary's policies. You betcha! nt

[Jackie Wilson Said]

67. So you will not be voting?

[Live and Learn]

141. Of course I will be voting. Haven't missed one in 40 years. nt

[lostnfound]

64. "Shirking duty" was voting for the Iraq War

THAT was far more of a duty shirk than anything a regular citizen could do.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

66. Correct. So again, in November, if Bernie loses, you have two choices. Which will it be?

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Oh you have many choices

the fact that you do not get it is not surprising though, and adults will exercise those choices, They include not voting and voting for candidate C... oh and for the record, you have yet to address why the US has such lousy turnout, and it is hardly accidental.

But no, there are not just two choices, as much as you want to pretend otherwise.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

70. No, you dont have many choices. If your two small children are fighting, is one of your choices

to ignore them? Or go into another room and complain that your 3rd child is reading too loudly?

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Now bring the children

and speaking of children, climate change is an issue, NEITHER MAJOR PARTY is addressing that right now in a concrete manner, On the bright side, they are not alone. SO those children will have all the right in the world to blame YOU for not recognizing that. Since you are pushing that binary false choice.

But you are wrong So are you going to address the low voting ratios in the US? By the way, I will pretend to vote, in a corrupt election and my "vote" is still secret Deal with it.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

79. You can go on and on and on and on, but what you cant do is refute my logical, factual

comment that you have two choices in November.

And that not voting for one of them is shirking your duty as an adult.

You cannot refute that, it is why this thread is so big so fast.

My logic has some of you stumbling all over the place, but this is important or I wouldn't do it.

Maybe MAYBE when Bernie himself says it, and he will, maybe then?

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Actually it is not logical, or factual

and you have no understanding of political science as you keep pushing this.

The horse has been beaten to death... now it is liquid, bring the new horse.

And after Bernie does whatever that does not change the choices that citizens, not partisans, citizens have. They can vote for party A, B, C or D, or not vote at all. Those are the choices. And you have yet to address why the US has such lousy turnouts either. Nor do I expect you to.

Suffice it to say, people are figuring this out, that voting or not voting makes zero difference in their day to day lives. And that government responds according to your ability to write a check.

So you can try to keep that act, it is not impressing anybody.

And if you think your "arguments" will make people vote for HRC, or the man on the moon, you are sorely mistaken. And to quote the kids, in 10 to 20 years, the USSC will not matter anyway ok. 2 degrees centigrade, 400 PPM those are real facts.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

92. I dont understand political science but it is YOU advocating sitting out the process?

Did you actually just say that?

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Nope, if you read *that it is your issue*

I stated what are the choices, and sitting at home, which 48 percent of the voters did last time around, rounding from Pew's statistics. is indeed a choice. Why voters do that range from no interest, to no time, to protest, But people do make that choice.

If I am reading the mood of the country correctly, a large majority majority of democrats and independents will stay home and republicans will come out in droves. They will still barely break the 50 percent though. Our voting numbers have been lousy for years, and both parties like it that way. Or at least one, if not both would work to register voters and do outreach and all that shit. Free clue, they are not.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

102. Keep avoiding the facts. Two choices, only two. Shit sandwich or bigger shit sandwich

someone said, and I said yes indeed, one shit sandwich will kill your sister in a back alley, the other wont.

I am ashamed of anyone who would call him or herself a liberal who would act like this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. So my choice is a shit sandwitch or a bigger one?

Congratulations, you figured out why people do not vote.



At least the basic lesson in poli sci 101 did come in.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

107. Uh, but alas we are back at my premise. since we agree one will kill your sister and one wont

how can you allege to be a responsible adult and sit it out?

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. You are using a straw man

and given that HRC has put choice on the table, my choice is the guy who openly says it, or the gal who hints at it,

The sepsis will still kill my patient. By the way, I mean a real patient, from a back alley abortion.

[lostnfound]

96. Absolutely you can ignore them and many parenting books recommend doing just that

Better than trying to intervene. With kids, it's good to force them to try to solve their own problems.
That was not a great analogy

[Jackie Wilson Said]

99. It is now official. Folks who take your attitude and that of the others here

are simply unable to understand or care about the consequences of their actions.

I know it is a harsh statement, but it is a fact.

[Live and Learn]

144. LOL. The children whose futures will be non-existent if we make either of the 2 choices you suggest?

[Live and Learn]

142. Wow, you certainly do limit yourself. nt

[Beowulf]

39. I will vote for the candidates that best advocate for the issues

that matter most to me. I've stated many times I'm finished voting for the lesser of two evils and I'm immune to scare tactics to get me to vote against my values.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

41. If Hillary wins the nomination your choices will be her and GOP...it is that simple.

[LondonReign2]

72. Endlessly repeating the same false statement doesn't make it any truer than

the first time you misstated it.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

74. How is it wrong? Are you actually saying you believe one of your choices as an adult is

to not vote for one of the only two who can win?

How is that doing the adult thing?

[LondonReign2]

83. Are you actually saying one of your choices as an adult is to vote for

a shit sandwich or a double shot sandwich when there are other choices on the menu?

Yet again you might want to brush up on the logical fallacy known as a false dichotomy.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

87. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now you finally get it. One shit sandwich wont kill your sister in a back

alley and the other will.

Finally you get it, thanks!

[LondonReign2]

95. Bon apetite on your shit sandwich. I'll order the chicken pesto that

won't kill your sister in a back alley AND won't send her off to die in a corporatist war.

[Duckhunter935]

93. That is not true

Please stop lying

[Beowulf]

94. Maybe for you,

but not for me. My ballot will have lots of choices.

Your argument asks me to imagine what a Trump presidency might mean? I agree that it likely would be pretty bad. But you assume a Hillary administration would be better. I'm not so confident about that. I see a strong possibility of the following:

An aggressive foreign policy that will have our troops involved in hostilities in multiple countries

Support for regime changes similar to Honduras

TPP, TiPP, and all sorts of other trade agreements that kill jobs and trade away our sovereignty to unelected transnational courts

Restrictions on abortion

A weakened Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade

Changes in health care that will keep private insurance companies in outrageous profits

No action on too big to fail banks

No action on off shore tax evasion

No action on student indebtedness or the high cost of higher education

No action on income inequality

Pay to Play on a scale that's never been seen before

Continued fracking

No real, meaningful response to carbon emissions

Bloated military spending

Continuation of austerity measures

Nomination of corporate friendly judges

Deportation of undocumented workers and/or a guest worker program that will lock in workers to starvation wages

No action on demilitarization of police

This is just a partial list. Perhaps what concerns me most is that she would provide cover for other corporate Dems to vote for these things, just as Bill provided cover for the Crime Bill, NAFTA, Banking deregulation. She takes issues out of the discussion. She strengthens the ties between the Clinton machine and the DNC.

So it's not so simple for me.

[TheCowsCameHome]

40. I will vote for whomever I please.

And that does not automatically translate to voting (R). Sorry if that gets you all in a snit.

And I MUST vote? Where does that come from?

And that is no one's business but mine, and mine alone.

[My Good Babushka]

42. Adults can vote

adults can not vote,
adults can go berserk and riot
adults can have a protest
those are all adult things, in that adults have done them.
you are, in essence, just calling people "babies" who don't agree with your vote. Way to adult.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

44. I am saying that as an adult you must vote. And you must vote for one of the two that

can win otherwise you are shirking your duty to be part of the process that resolves the matter.

Do you often resolve the issues of your life by ignoring or avoiding them?

[My Good Babushka]

46. I don't agree with any of your premises. nt.

[Rass]

47. No thanks.

I will never vote for a Republican-lite. Give me a true progressive that works to EARN my vote. A vote for Hillary is a vote to continue the existing corrupt system. No thanks.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

50. Got it, so you either vote FOR the GOP or sit it out and shirk your responsibility.

[Rass]

63. haha

That fact that Hillary pays $$$ for online trolls to post propaganda is relevant here. I don't know whether to take you seriously or ignore you like a magazine advertisement.

[polichick]

49. Our responsibility is to vote our conscience. Period.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

53. No, it is to vote and be a part of resolving the process. Just like your everyday problems in life

Do you normally avoid your problems or do you address them no matter how much fun they arent?

Assume the latter or you wouldnt be here.

[polichick]

55. I stand by my position.

[Throd]

73. I stand by your position.

[Duckhunter935]

97. I do too

[noretreatnosurrender]

58. You Can Smell the Authoritarianism

wafting through this thread.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Yup and the beatings shall conitnue until that poor liquid horse flows to the ocean.

then they will bring a new horse.

[lostnfound]

100. Oh, yeah! That's exactly what it is. It's Dolores Umbridge, that scold!

[imari362]

78. If Bernie or Hillary

Can't get enough votes to beat the Republican than that's on them.

It's THEIR responsibility to get voters to want to vote for them.

MY responsibility is to vote for whom I see as fitting with what I believe.

If a "win" is all that matters to you, than....Do You

[Jackie Wilson Said]

81. Sigh

[TheCowsCameHome]

84. I must be on OP's "ignore".

Ask me why I am so happy.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

86. No, busy thread, tell me again and I will respond

[TheCowsCameHome]

89. Nuts.

My hopes and dreams have been dashed. Again.

[aikoaiko]

104. I'll be voting my conscience.

[dgauss]

106. I have to wonder what happened to the adults in the room and their sense of responsibility

during the primaries. When there was one candidate who clearly represented democratic ideals and clearly showed the commitment to move the country in the direction that all the adults in the room profess to want. Personally I think those adults failed in the responsibility to truly support a movement towards a more progressive and just future. Of course that's just me, and I'm glad to see that the adults' sense of responsibility is back in place for November.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

113. I dont disagree...but if she wins, then we are where we are. right?

[dgauss]

146. I've heard that rationale before. And then we are where we are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. The parties are not giving people a reason to vote

that is happening. Midterms are even lousier in turnout than GE. Nor is that accidental.

As the OP adroitly and accidentally i am sure, pointed out, the choices are between a shit sandwich and a bigger shit sandwich, people don't like shit.

[Marrah_G]

110. People have different ideas on what responsibility means

Calling people children or childish really won't change anyone's mind.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

115. I dont think I did that but given the stakes are life and death for many, i might have, getting

pretty pissed at all these "taking my ball and going home because I didnt get what I want" people.

[artislife]

130. We will vote.

It just may be that our votes are different from yours.

When you voted for Kerry and he lost, was your vote wasted? Were you not an adult?

[ThePhilosopher04]

131. Real adults won't support the Hillaryan agenda

She's bad for America.

[EndElectoral]

135. Wow..this op makes me want to run out and vote for HRC.

[TalkingDog]

145. Bullshit Argument: Voting for a 3rd party (or writing in Sanders) is shirking responsibility.

And here's why.

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/06/vote_for_hillary_be_a_sucker_its_ok_to_reject_the_choice_of_a_tyrannical_liberal_or_a_right_wing_tyrant/

"The argument is a classic form of liberal discipline meant to shame the recalcitrant into obedience. It confers responsibility for national travails onto those who choose different ways of political consumption and participation. It’s a good example of why many thoughtful people renounce the electoral system. When a complex project like democracy is limited to two airbrushed party bureaucrats, venal strategies of coercion are inevitable.

This brand of disciplining rose to prominence during Ralph Nader’s candidacy in 2000 and is dutifully repeated by waspish blowhards every four years. While reasonable people understand that debate will arise over voting strategies, there is little consideration of the merits of voting third party or not voting at all, which, contrary to neoliberal orthodoxy, can certainly be an affirmational act of participation. When folks with loud voices and large audiences assign blame for the terrible state of U.S. governance on people who make ethical decisions to avoid cosigning injustice, we’re no longer dealing with reason but with numbingly inane superstition.

Disciplining the recalcitrant arises from an American tradition of blaming the depredations of the powerful on those with much less power. Media elites invent imaginary black women as the culprits of an unfair welfare scheme while eliding the greatest beneficiaries of government largesse: banks, corporations, and client dictators. Cigarette smokers, overwhelmingly poor and minority, bear the moral burden of pollution while earth’s greatest polluters—DuPont, Dow, ExxonMobile, General Electric, Halliburton—poison us into billion-dollar profits.


Vote or don’t vote. That’s not the point here. Whatever your preference, at least have the decency to blame problems of violence and inequality on the people who actually create or sustain them: plutocrats, politicians, profiteers, potentates, and, lest we forget, the well-heeled commentators who aren’t compensated for insight but for their ability to render platitudes the currency of American political debate.