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Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:19 AM

 

Will the Democratic Party unify under Hillary or split in two

Will the Democratic Party unify under Hillary or split in two
136 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
The Democratic party will unify under Hillary
28 (21%)
The Democratic party will spit in two with Bernie supporters leaving and forming a new party or going independent
98 (72%)
Don't know or choose not to say
10 (7%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

140 replies, 4863 views

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Arrow 140 replies Author Time Post
Reply Will the Democratic Party unify under Hillary or split in two (Original post)
Unicorn Apr 2016 OP
JackInGreen Apr 2016 #1
Unicorn Apr 2016 #2
JackInGreen Apr 2016 #4
Dustlawyer Apr 2016 #3
Unicorn Apr 2016 #11
HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #5
Unicorn Apr 2016 #17
NurseJackie Apr 2016 #6
MADem Apr 2016 #19
bvf Apr 2016 #63
PyaarRevolution Apr 2016 #66
NurseJackie Apr 2016 #69
PyaarRevolution Apr 2016 #89
apcalc Apr 2016 #88
Marrah_G Apr 2016 #7
Unicorn Apr 2016 #15
Miles Archer Apr 2016 #39
PyaarRevolution Apr 2016 #92
PyaarRevolution Apr 2016 #68
hamsterjill Apr 2016 #103
chknltl Apr 2016 #8
hollowdweller Apr 2016 #9
Unicorn Apr 2016 #13
HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #20
Downwinder Apr 2016 #23
Bohunk68 Apr 2016 #35
Downwinder Apr 2016 #40
snooper2 Apr 2016 #56
Bohunk68 Apr 2016 #64
snooper2 Apr 2016 #67
Unicorn Apr 2016 #59
Karma13612 Apr 2016 #123
baldguy Apr 2016 #33
AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #70
djean111 Apr 2016 #102
Carolina Apr 2016 #112
Karma13612 Apr 2016 #125
Karma13612 Apr 2016 #117
TM99 Apr 2016 #129
Jackilope Apr 2016 #135
snowy owl Apr 2016 #10
onehandle Apr 2016 #12
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #18
HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #21
Name removed Apr 2016 #47
onehandle Apr 2016 #48
Name removed Apr 2016 #55
JoePhilly Apr 2016 #51
Carolina Apr 2016 #113
Karma13612 Apr 2016 #119
ibegurpard Apr 2016 #14
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #16
SheilaT Apr 2016 #22
sacto95834 Apr 2016 #25
Unicorn Apr 2016 #95
Carolina Apr 2016 #115
kathysart_decoration Apr 2016 #44
GulfCoast66 Apr 2016 #83
Bjornsdotter Apr 2016 #105
GulfCoast66 Apr 2016 #109
djean111 Apr 2016 #104
Carolina Apr 2016 #110
Karma13612 Apr 2016 #127
justinjuarez99 Apr 2016 #24
Urchin Apr 2016 #97
Lil Missy Apr 2016 #26
xocet Apr 2016 #85
SheilaT Apr 2016 #140
Meteor Man Apr 2016 #27
Onlooker Apr 2016 #28
B Calm Apr 2016 #38
Name removed Apr 2016 #52
Onlooker Apr 2016 #57
Sky Masterson Apr 2016 #29
hereforthevoting Apr 2016 #32
Agschmid Apr 2016 #30
DrDan Apr 2016 #37
qdouble Apr 2016 #31
peacebird Apr 2016 #128
BillZBubb Apr 2016 #132
qdouble Apr 2016 #134
Jitter65 Apr 2016 #34
DrDan Apr 2016 #36
1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #84
DrDan Apr 2016 #101
1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #108
bigwillq Apr 2016 #41
B Calm Apr 2016 #42
whatthehey Apr 2016 #43
Adrahil Apr 2016 #45
Tarc Apr 2016 #46
Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2016 #49
hrmjustin Apr 2016 #50
Unicorn Apr 2016 #60
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #53
mkrayburn Apr 2016 #54
Joob Apr 2016 #58
The Midway Rebel Apr 2016 #61
Unicorn Apr 2016 #62
Orsino Apr 2016 #65
Dem2 Apr 2016 #71
Blue_In_AK Apr 2016 #72
Unicorn Apr 2016 #73
Bobbie Jo Apr 2016 #98
La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2016 #74
Unicorn Apr 2016 #75
MirrorAshes Apr 2016 #76
Unicorn Apr 2016 #77
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #78
Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #79
Unicorn Apr 2016 #82
Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #87
xocet Apr 2016 #80
berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #81
NCTraveler Apr 2016 #86
B Calm Apr 2016 #90
NCTraveler Apr 2016 #91
Carolina Apr 2016 #118
NCTraveler Apr 2016 #121
Carolina Apr 2016 #122
NCTraveler Apr 2016 #126
Carolina Apr 2016 #130
NCTraveler Apr 2016 #137
forjusticethunders Apr 2016 #93
uponit7771 Apr 2016 #106
ieoeja Apr 2016 #94
Carolina Apr 2016 #120
NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #96
Chan790 Apr 2016 #99
Dems to Win Apr 2016 #100
BainsBane Apr 2016 #107
JPnoodleman Apr 2016 #111
randome Apr 2016 #114
BillZBubb Apr 2016 #133
JPnoodleman Apr 2016 #136
randome Apr 2016 #139
Kaleva Apr 2016 #116
Unicorn Apr 2016 #124
mvd Apr 2016 #131
Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #138

Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:23 AM

1. You need more options

We support Bernie because he's willing to lead, the movement isn't his, it's ours. If 'his' supporters leave the core reasoning will be because the party has abandoned them. Bernie and ourselves would only be walking the same direction, towards better.

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Response to JackInGreen (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:23 AM

2. I will fix it.

 

Is it better?

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Response to Unicorn (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:24 AM

4. Thnx m80

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:24 AM

3. Many Democrats will leave to go Independant, but certainly not all.

It will be a big rift made wider by Bill Clinton, Hillary herself, and many (not all) of her supporters, who can be seen gloating here daily. For some it has become a bridge too far.

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:28 AM

11. I think you nailed it Bill Clinton did start this.

 

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:25 AM

5. A number of Sanders supporters split.

 

Some will stay, although that number is shrinking daily with Clinton's dirty campaign and her supporters authoritarian bullying.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:35 AM

17. The last poll said 33% of Democrats wouldn't vote for her no mater what. It continue to rise 6.5%

 

per month.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:25 AM

6. "We hate the establishment! Down with the establishment! Let's form our own establishment!"

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:41 AM

19. Led by a member (for a third of a century, no less) of said establishment! nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:47 PM

63. Under any other circumstances

 

you'd be pissing and moaning about lack of experience.

Pretty transparent, darling.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:51 PM

66. It's not funny.

It's an honest concern and I hope Hillary starts to realize this and come to us and ask for our support instead of expecting us to come under her thumb.

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Response to PyaarRevolution (Reply #66)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:00 PM

69. It's like saying "I wouldn't belong to any organization that has actual members!"

Do you want to come inside, participate, contribute and make a difference? Or do you get enough satisfaction from just sitting outside, jeering and shouting and complaining about it?

There's no "instant gratification" to be had. And (surprise, surprise) you have to give a little to get a little. You can't have it your own way all the time.

And yes, it actually IS funny, because it's true ... and it illustrates the absurdity of how so many of Bernie's supporters are behaving and with their ideological purity. In my opinion, they are their own worst obstacles.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #69)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:02 PM

89. I don't feel like I'm even being given that option by Hillary's campaign.

There's no give a little to get a little. I feel like I'm being told BY Hillary's campaign to compromise(IF that's even an option) or to just completely drop the issue. This is a real problem.
It's like join us on everything or get left behind.

Look I don't expect ideological purity, I expect reality and not forcing some of the worst financial vultures to come to heel is just keeping people suffering excruciating pain, figuratively and literally. I am asking for tuition free college, breaking up the banks, Medicare for all and I'd even take a pathway to "Weed legalization".
We need tuition free college because having people take and receive majors on what they are passionate about without debt hanging over their head will see a percentage of them go out, take risk, innovate and create new, possibly breakthrough enterprises. If we have them take a career out of fear and to make money then their creativity won't bloom and enrich society as a whole.
The same goes for Medicare in addition to more companies just hiring people. The cost of Health Insurance is stagnating growth for all but the biggest corporations. Hollywood is going out of town to Canada for many productions and Toyota is going out of the U.S. because even the South is too expensive when you have to provide Health Insurance for workers.
p.s. Oh and with Compromise you lose. A better push would be towards creating Consensus then everyone feels like they win.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:59 PM

88. Good one!

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:27 AM

7. I don't think she projects that she cares about us at all

I think she will attempt to but it will fall flat. Just my opinion.

I will do what I can to stop Trump ....but I am honestly looking for a new progressive party.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:32 AM

15. +1

 

This poll needs to wake up the Hillay supporters. It's the memo they don't seem to be getting.

This election isn't business as usual and their 1% corporate candidate isn't flying with a large portion of the Dems. They are progressives who will never support what she is.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:39 AM

39. If she gets the nomination, and if she is elected...

...and if we get four years of what voters outside of her base are expecting, I think that will be the end of it right there. There will be no second term. If she runs, and if the Republicans do not have a "populist" option, you will see a dramatic rise of a third party.

You cannot be the Goldman-Sachs candidate and appeal to the base of Sanders supporters at the same time. You can't be a hawk and appeal to the base of Sanders supporters at the same time.

It's not going to happen.

I see one of two scenarios.

1). The people who are not Clinton supporters have a pretty accurate assessment of what she will do in office, and if she's given four years to do it, they're not going to vote for a second term in 2020

2). The people who are not Clinton supporters have it all wrong, she's not who they think she is, and they will be pleasantly surprised in varying degrees if and when she takes office

And as I've said before, if it gets to the Republican convention and they are looking at Clinton vs. Trump in November, they will throw Trump under the bus and draft Ryan. If it's Clinton vs. Ryan, Ryan wins. The Kochs, Adelson, and every other Republican with deep pockets will throw obscene amounts of money into the worst smear campaign of our generation. I don't see Clinton fighting this. I see her standing her ground, which is what she does...right or wrong...and under the weight of the RNC machine, with a poster boy they all love on their side of the ring, she's toast.

If Trump gets his 1237 delegates, they will have a hard time pulling that off. If he falls short, they will draft Ryan.

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Response to Miles Archer (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:07 PM

92. I remember hearing someone talk about Hillary getting the nomination.

She didn't say who would win but that there will be a revolution in 2020.

I hope it isn't 2020 but I agree with her if it doesn't happen now it's an inevitability that it WILL happen.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:55 PM

68. Though I'm sure Hillary supporters will disagree with me.

I don't think she wants to become POTUS to serve as a role model for young girls and women, I think it's so she can increase her speaking fees substantially because she's the first woman POTUS.

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Response to PyaarRevolution (Reply #68)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:39 PM

103. Do you really think she needs the money?

I don't. I think she's pretty well set at this point.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:27 AM

8. I know what I will do.

As i am not a spokesmodel for the Democratic Party I can not predict nor would I think to vote on what those who run the Party are planning to do with it.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:27 AM

9. Most of the independants who have voted Sanders in open primaries will vote for Trump.

 


Most of the older dems who support Sanders will back Hillary.

Most of the young voters will set this one out.

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:30 AM

13. I think you're right unless a new option opens.

 

I think the independents, youth and Dems for Sanders will unify under a progressive option if one opens.

Occupy needs to start a political party - it needs to be progressive.

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:19 AM

20. Bullshit.

 

Fewer Sanders supporters will vote Trump than did Democrats who voted Bush in 2000.

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:41 AM

23. I wouldn't count on those older dems who support Sanders

Especially if they are dependent on Social Security. Hill has waffled on SS. That makes her vulnerable.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #23)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:21 AM

35. I am one of those. Hillary has stated many times that she

would be open to cuts in SS. I will NOT vote for a millionaire who wants to reduce what income I do have. Remember, when they tell you that the AVERAGE SS is poverty level, then half are existing below the poverty level. Hillary doesn't give a shit one way or the other.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:56 AM

40. When it comes to existence or politics,

I have to choose existence. You can't eat politics. I have seen what Clintons have done before and I do not care to go that route even though prison might be a standard of living improvement.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:54 PM

56. So you sitting it out or going with the Drumpf then

 

LOL

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #56)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:49 PM

64. I have voted in EVERY election in which I was

an elector since 1964. I do not intend on breaking that string. Evidently you consider it all just either/or. There are other options and I have not forgotten this time or ever, the down-ticket needs. LOL yourself.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #64)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:53 PM

67. So no answer - IE the LOL, I was expecting it!

 

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:30 PM

59. +1

 

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:22 PM

123. yup, we don't even register on her radar.

I am 4 years from official retirement age and I am frightened to death of a Hillary Presidency.

Like many of the older 99%ers, we cannot AFFORD a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

If someone touches my SS I will camp out on their doorstep and expect to be given free room and board in one of their bedrooms in their palatial estate homes.

I will be living month to month on SS as it is.

And I have to keep working right up to 66, even if I can't do it physically, it's a must to accumulate as much in the SS fund as I can manage.





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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:12 AM

33. +1000

 

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:09 PM

70. Cruz will most likely be the nominee

 

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:38 PM

102. Old Dem who supports Sanders.

 

Will absolutely NOT vote for Hillary. No one I know will be doing that.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #102)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:51 PM

112. Ditto!

Old Dem here who remembers JFK and absolutely will not vote for HRC.

Bernie Boomer

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Response to djean111 (Reply #102)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:23 PM

125. Old Dem here...agree +10 eom

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:13 PM

117. I'm an older dem (62)

and will vote for Jill Stein if she is on the Green Party ticket on my ballot in NY State.

I will NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTT vote for Hillary after a year of living and breathing Bernie since he announced.

I was originally hoping for Elizabeth Warren but was thrilled to support Bernie.

Hillary is a non-starter for me.

I will NOT vote for Hillary after the crap we have put up with in the primary season. I was willing to in the beginning, but not any more.

There is going to be another option, and I am convinced this general election is going to be one for the history books.

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:30 PM

129. That is a gross and very wrong assumption.

 

47% of the electorate are independents and right and left leaning ones split about 50/50.

There may be a small percentage of bleed over but what you will see is half of those left leaning independents head to the Green Party, vote only down-ticket, or sit out like the young voters.

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Response to hollowdweller (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:38 PM

135. I am a middle age Dem (55) and will exit stage right.

I plan on registering Independent. Two bought out parties has to stop and before 2020.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:27 AM

10. Party will unify if you call returning to status quo unifying. I did for purpose of poll. But...

the party is corrupt and we'll have to live with it for four to eight more years. And longer if another once in a lifetime leader like Bernie doesn't come along. Hell, the country may be so bad by that time we'll all be peons without hope or we really will have a revolution.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:29 AM

12. Every Bernie supporter I know in real life will vote for Hillary in the GE.

Anonymous IDs on this little gossip site have nothing to do with the real world.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:37 AM

18. And I have been told by real life Bernie supporters

 

a variation of this

They go from ABT (anybody but trump, meaning they will hold their nose and vote for clinton) to anybody but the establishment, OF the latter, some will vote for Trump, not the majority, some will vote for Jill Stein, and some will stay home. The two last ones. it is a good question which one dominates. I expect an ebb and flow of those.

For the record, a lot of the Cruz fans are split between ABT (they will vote for Clinton), to sitting out the election, Some will vote Trump if he comes out of the convention the nominee.

It is an advantage to talk to as many people as you can. And funny, I still got all my limbs attached nor did I break into hives.

Of course a large majority is not going to vote anyway. And you know what? Their reasons are solid. I cannot argue with them any more.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:26 AM

21. That's my anecdotal experience.

 

The number who will vote Clinton was the majority, but is shrinking. Those who will vote for Jill Stein appears to be growing. A pretty steady number insist they'll write in Sanders. No one has said they'll sit it out, that's typically not something announced in advance. But I'm sure a good number will.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #12)


Response to Name removed (Reply #47)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:38 PM

48. Ralph? Ralph Nader? That you, Ralph? nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #48)


Response to onehandle (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:39 PM

51. Same.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:54 PM

113. Odd, every Bernie Boomer

I know will absolutely NOT vote for HRC in the general.

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Response to Carolina (Reply #113)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:16 PM

119. +10 eom

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:31 AM

14. It will continue to limp along

But it can't continue on its corporate and power-broker based trajectory for much longer... if it even survives this election relatively intact.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:32 AM

16. Other, and it is more complicated

 

that a or b. The party is already splitting... there is no doubt, and it is far more subrosa than the Rs, This will in time lead to the final split of the progressive wing of the Democratic party, as the Ds receive the business wing of the republican party.

The process is almost complete, the realignment. But it will take one two two cycles for a good number to realize that. Some of us are way ahead of the curve. How fast this happens really depends on how badly the Rs beat themselves in Cleveland, though there is a chance that both parties will emerged completely fractured from the nominating season.

Regardless the process is well underway.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:39 AM

22. There are an awful lot of Bernie supporters

 

who have been life-long Democrats who are willing to say Fuck It to the entire system if he's not the nominee. The Hillary side interprets that as a temper tantrum. They do not understand the underlying emotion here.

I'm a Bernie supporter, a life-long Democrat. I've even run for office, although I lost my election. I longed for Elizabeth Warren to run, and initially was thinking of Bernie as a second place choice. Over the past year I've grown to admire what he stands for, have become a fervent supporter. I know that Hillary is as close to the absolute worst choice the Democratic Party could possibly make as a nominee, and I'm utterly flabbergasted at her support.

Don't they think her constant position changes matter? Don't they think her out-and-out lies show her as a dishonest person? Don't they think her vote for the Iraq war as a senator, and her cheerful willingness to bomb women and children should be an issue? Here on DU I have NEVER seen a Hillary supporter give a substantive response to any of these challenges to her. Basically they're saying, She could be the First Woman President and nothing else matters.

Did any of you read the book or see the movie "Game Change" about the 2008 campaign? The movie is actually much clearer than the book that the Republican operatives were totally enamored of the idea of a female Vice President (and none of them had any recollection whatsoever of the 1984 campaign when Geraldine Ferraro was the VP nominee that year. What was it someone said about those not remembering history? Anyway, in the movie the Republican operatives keep on having near orgasms over the notion that a woman VP was a "Game Changer", without any regard to the actual substance of that woman running for that office. They were blinded by her genitalia, and could only wax enthusiastic about her. Until her incredible shortcomings, lack of basic intelligence, total self-centeredness, and overall complete lack of qualifications for this position became evident. By then it was too late. She wasn't vetted, to put it mildly. (Oh, and this is not the bullshit "vetted" that the Clinton folks keep on yammering about. This is the real thing.) But they pushed on, nonetheless, mainly because by the time they realized she was a total fuck-up of a choice, it was too late.

In a similar way the Hillary enthusiasts are completely blinded by the glittering possibility of the first woman President. They don't give a flying fuck that she's singularly unqualified, mainly because of her appalling judgement in so many areas. They don't care that she changes her mind daily on issues. They don't care that she's totally beholden to big money. All they see is that she's a woman. Worse yet, they don't get it that if Hillary Clinton becomes President, she will be so awful that it will be another fifty years before another woman can possibly be considered for the job. Hell, we'll probably have a transgendered President before then.

Well, I'm not going to fall for this. I'm a woman, and yes, I'd love to see a person of my gender as President. I've had my own experiences with discrimination because I'm a woman, and when I want I can get pretty riled up about them. But that doesn't mean I'll blindly vote for the first person with a vagina who seems to have a shot at the job.

More to the point, I've had it with voting for the lesser or two evils. Because I'd still be voting for an evil. If I cannot cast a positive vote for the person I really want to be President, then too bad. I won't vote for that office at all. Oh, I'll vote the down ticket people. But all of the rest of the people out there can take it upon themselves to choose a lesser evil. I'm done with that.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:43 AM

25. My First Post

I totally agree with Sheila. I think many of the HRC supporters don't/won't see the fracture in the Democratic Party going on today. Like many elections prior, they view this primary as no different; that in the end the party will reunite behind the candidate.

I don't think this is the case. The party has been fracturing for a long time. I think the fracturing was most apparent with the nomination of Bill Clinton and the "Third Way" path to victory. Since his nomination, the party has continued to follow this mode. The fracture has just widened.

I had great hope with the nomination of Obama as he seemed to heal the fracture. I think it had more to do with his personality and who he was rather than the what he stood for. In the 2008 election, I thought policy wise he and HRC were clones. Obama was just more charismatic and inspiring.

Which brings us to 2016. Whatever you think of HRC, I think we can agree she is a polarizing candidate. When she first came to the national attention, she was outspoken and certainly had her own opinions. She was very different from all the other wives of presidential candidates we had seen. Or at least I had seen. She was refreshing.

HRC however isn't a natural politician. She's rather stiff and doesn't seem at ease in a crowd; unlike her charming husband, who is very good with people and can work a crowd with skill and grace.

The electorate of 2016 is also very different from the 1990s when the 3rd Way Democratic path was developed. It is now the age of the Internet when information is a few keystrokes away. Past positions and statements can be researched almost instantaneous. It is also the coming of age of the Millennials. The last large voting block, the Boomers are dying off, and the Millennials are making their voice heard. Minority voters are also making their voices heard. It seems a place at the table is not enough, they want leadership.

It is in this mix that Bernie Sanders stepped forward to seek the nomination of the Democratic Party. I don't think anyone at the DNC or the electorate at large took him very seriously at first. Unless you follow politics like this board does, nobody heard of him - a liberal from Vermont, with almost no $. But what he does have is a platform that resonated with the ideals of the Millennials and Occupy Wall Street movement. His messaging also plays perfectly with this demographic. Bernie always speaks of "we." "We can do this. This isn't about me, it's about us." Contrast this with the messaging from the HRC campaign which is more traditional, "I will do...; or I stand for..."

So here we are in 2016. The fracture in the party growing wider. HRC v. Bernie. Can the party be healed? I don't know. I have less optimism if HRC is nominated. She isn't that kind of politician and she doesn't have the natural gifts one would need to do this. I think if she tries, it will look stilted. She isn't a touchy-feely candidate. Never has been.

If we were nominating someone else, maybe. In this campaign so far there isn't any outreach from the HRC people to the Bernie supporters. But even if it is coming, it would just be temporary. I think ultimately the party will have to split.

The Democratic Party used to stand for the common man - the laborer, the middle class, the poor. After loosing so many presidential elections in the 80s, the Democrats developed the 3rd way path - which courted business interests. Policy positions shifted to benefit big business over the interests of the "common man." How else can one explain the "reform" of the banking rules or the trade agreements? Thus began the fracturing of the party. Just look at the money being accepted by Democratic candidates. If you believe that such large contributions have no strings, I have a ocean view land to sell you in Iowa. Donations gets you access and opportunity to persuade candidates who are only human.

I love presidential elections and have observed and studied them to gain insight on how their messaging affects voter behavior. I am also a Democrat who has voted in every election since 1980 - what a depressing night that was. It saddens me that the Democrats will likely split into two or more parties. I've always liked the idea of the "big tent." That despite differences, at the core we all believe in the same ideals. The details may be different. I don't think that is so anymore. We can all scream and cry and accuse the "other side" of the party for the problem. Why can't they see my point of view? But what good would that do. I think it is time for the divorce. From there, we can heal and even work together in the future.

I think the same will happen to the Republicans. It seems with the apparent nomination of HRC and Trump the parties will have to finally confront the fractures within them. I find the Republican party even more interesting to study. But that is another story.

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Response to sacto95834 (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:39 PM

95. Excellent post.

 

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Response to sacto95834 (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:56 PM

115. Welcome to DU!

What a wonderful and insightful post. Glad to have you here.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:03 AM

44. I agree

 

I am a 67 year old woman who totally agrees with you. I pride myself on never having voted for Bill Clinton and promised myself even before Hillary entered the race that I would never vote for her. I, also, believe she is a terrible candidate and even if she gets into the GE she will probably lose. Beyond that, if elected President, the Republicans are just laying in wait to take her down, and she keeps giving them the ammunition with her terrible judgements in so many situations, including making speeches to Goldman Saks knowing full well she would be running for President. Actually, that was probably pure arrogance on her part. She has a good supply of it and could care less.

I will either write in Bernie Sanders or vote Green, but I will never vote for Hillary. It really isn't just young people who will never vote for her and I may not be alone in my feelings.

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Response to kathysart_decoration (Reply #44)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:37 PM

83. Well, we won twice in the 90's without you

I am sure will manage again.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #83)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:50 PM

105. Hold on to that thought

...'cause this ain't the '90's.

I have no idea how this will shake out, but I can tell you that I think Hillary will not gain as many Bernie supporters as she thinks she will.

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Response to Bjornsdotter (Reply #105)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 06:52 PM

109. No it is not the 90's

The Democratic Party has been coming around in many areaslike LGBT issues and Bernie's efforts will and is pushing it to the left on social justice issues. It moves slowly like things always do in the US.

Meanwhile the right has gone batshit crazy. First because we elected and then re-elected a black president. Finally and more critically, right wing whites realize they shortly will be a minority. This is really their last chance to stop real change in American politics. If they win this election they will do all they can to ensure we never have another open election again. So while I am no Clinton lover, I will do all I can to prevent a Republican victory.

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Response to kathysart_decoration (Reply #44)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:41 PM

104. You are definitely not alone. n/t

 

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:14 PM

110. Excellent post, Sheila T!

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:26 PM

127. +1000 ^^^ this ^^^ eom

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:24 AM

24. One plus one

The Democratic Party will probably split in two. But that's not all. In all events, the Republican Party will be damaged also because of *cough* Trump *cough* There's going to be a lot of independents coming about.

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Response to justinjuarez99 (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:45 PM

97. If the republican party splits

 

If the republican party splits that will create a whole new world of candidate possibilities.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:54 AM

26. Democrats in general will unify 4 Hillary Clinton.

The ones on DU who are Sanders supporters, well if they walk, they walk. bye bye.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:45 PM

85. That is the attitude that will lose the GE. n/t

This is the DU member formerly known as xocet.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 01:55 PM

140. And if they walk, as many may well do,

 

then not only is the GE in danger, but more to the point you won't have them voting down ticket.

One of the claims of the Hillary crowd all along has been how much better she will be able to work with Congress than Bernie would, as if her eight years (one and a half terms, like another woman politician we all know she quite midway through a term) counts a whole lot more than Bernie's 25 years in both the House and the Senate.

She is not going to magically bring about a kumbaya moment with Congress, especially if it remains in the hands of Republicans. Of course, she'll probably be able to do a lot of distracting with invasions and drone strikes, so that people will be persuaded that the only possible way to balance the budget will be to cut Medicare and Social Security.

This country needs the change that Bernie could bring about. Hillary will be same-old same-old, and I'm depressed just anticipating it.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:55 AM

27. Definite split

It's not a a question of if, but how many Bernie supporters take another route.

A significant factor will be outcome of the battle over the platform. If DWS snd Hillary shut Bernie out, as one report suggested, the % could be substantial.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:11 AM

28. Some Bernie supporters are socialist, not social Democrat ...

 

... They will go off into the wilderness of useless votes and trivial movements, failing to form meaningful coalitions, and just sitting around with people like themselves having little if any impact on elections. But, most Bernie supporters are liberal or democratic socialist. They are interested in coalition building, and respect the voices of those who support Hillary, many of whom have better progressive and activist credentials than any Bernie supporter. They may not agree with the Hillary supporters, but in the end they will stand with their brethren and vote Democratic.

We can't worry about those who will leave the Democratic Party. But, that said, my guess is that the poll simply shows the pain of loss by Bernie supporters, and if the same poll is conducted in a few months, the results will be significantly different. Some people when they lose, lose gracefully, others don't. Some in the Sanders movement will see all the good they've done win or lose. For others, it's just a sports game, and they lost and are pissed off.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:29 AM

38. It's shame our Democratic party is being taken over by Conservatives. I think I'm

 

not going anywhere. I will stay with the Democratic party for spite and work on the inside to bring it back to the party of FDR.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #28)


Response to Name removed (Reply #52)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:08 PM

57. Oh, I agree

 

Bernie should use his leverage to try to reform the Democratic Party. He should hold out for that under the threat of a protest movement at the convention. I think the Democratic establishment will find a way to be more inclusive, since, to paraphrase LBJ, they'd rather have Bernie supporters inside pissing out than outside pissing in.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:20 AM

29. Those who aren't too invested will vote how they always do

Those deeply in to it and paying attention will make individual decisions.
I feel that with the way the DNC is running this primary that those who are invested won't be rushing to join the scam/party.
You can't poison a mans well and then deliver him bottled water and expect him to be grateful for it.

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Response to Sky Masterson (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 06:13 AM

32. "You can't poison a mans well and then deliver him bottled water and expect him to be grateful ..."

Literally.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:28 AM

30. The party and DU will be fine.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #30)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:22 AM

37. that is a true thing on both fronts

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 06:10 AM

31. A lot of "Bernie Supporters" simply aren't Democrats to begin with...

Of those that actually are democrats, probably ~10% will hold on to their sour grapes after he officially drops out. The party will be fine.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:27 PM

128. Actually a lot ARE long time Dems. We were Dems BEFORE the Clinton presidency. He took the party

Far right and sold us to the corporatists. Some of us want the Dem party to return to its concern for the average American instead of the corporations. But too many DLC/ThirdWay "Dems" are thwarting that effort, including Hillary.

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Response to qdouble (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:31 PM

132. That's bullshit. It's typical Hillbot wishful thinking.

Or it's what Brock told you to say.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #132)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:38 PM

134. Yes...everybody who supports a long time democrat is a paid shill or bot

but those who support someone who just became a democrat a minute ago for self important reasons is a true democrat. gtfoh

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:18 AM

34. The "Democrats" are already unified behind Hillary. The Independents and faux Democrats

 

will return to their positions of working against the party.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:21 AM

36. not going to be a third party - too much effort

those who cannot find the time to register are not going to put in the work necessary for a viable third party

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Response to DrDan (Reply #36)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:40 PM

84. Who said anything about "viable" 3rd Party?

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #84)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:37 PM

101. good point - kind of a rally club

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Response to DrDan (Reply #101)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:57 PM

108. Around a drum circle or facebook group.

 

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:05 AM

41. The DEM party will be fine. It has its loyalists, and tons of money.

 

Life will go on with the DEM party. But I do think there's many folks who will leave the party and vote independently. The DEM party won't care because their agenda is money, and the Clinton machine will keep it oiled.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:16 AM

42. A lot of Hillary supporters aren't democrats to begin with simply because they are Conservatives.

 

If a Hillary presidency has her running the country even more right-wing, I'm not so sure what will happen to the party of FDR. I am concerned and that's why fully support the best candidate in my lifetime of 65 years, Bernie Sanders.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:00 AM

43. Neither

Some portion of nominal Democrats will vote Republican, some 3rd party and some will stay home, but the vast majority will vote for her, just, in all aspects, as they have done with any other nominee since effectrive polling has studied the issue.

If any "3rd" party is attempted it will be minuscule, ineffective, and irrelevant as existing minority parties already are. There are Greens, Socialists, Communists, Constitution, Libertarian and AIP out there right now, but basic psychology coupled with our constitution dictates that everybody but a handful of fringe extremists eventually realize that it's better to get some of what you want with the only two parties who have any chance whatsoever of making things into law under our current system than to utterly miss any of what you want chasing unicorns and rainbows with ciphers who will never affect American politics in the slightest.

The parties themselves can evolve. We have neither Whigs nor Federalists any more, but they always simply evolve into two opposing sides on whatever matters most to the zeitgeist. Unless we xhange how government works, it will always be so.

Now there is a small, nay tiny, chance that a massively wealthy widely admired celebrity faced with weak fractured major parties could become President (no not Trump, not even close) but they would be a figurehead lame duck from day 1, reduced at best to a sort of advisory referee to the excesses of congressional infighting. We saw a bit of a microcosm of this with Ventura. But a 3rd party in the US actually achieving meaningful power? Possible only in a limited way and only by hijacking one of the major party's infrastructure starting at local levels and working up (Tea Party exhibit A but notice all they are really doing is pulling the Republicans in that direction, not forming a separate power structure. That's the only path for any more progressive efforts to get anything achieved).

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:05 AM

45. NONE of the Bernie supports I know personally are Bernie or Bust.

 

No third party. And a significant number of Bernie supporters are already independents.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:08 AM

46. The DU is not a microcosm of the general electorate

We'll be fine in the fall.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:39 PM

49. Both, I guess - there will be a spew of small breakaways, but almost all the party will unify. N.T.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:39 PM

50. We should and will unite.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #50)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:33 PM

60. Why should we? Most of us Liberals know the value of NOT allowing the

 

corpratocracy to continue to destroy our economy, environment and planet.

The last thing we should do is support a warhawk for the 1%. Hillary is paid for by all the biggest corporations ruining our planet.

You can do that. But as you see a whole lot of people are done with that. Thank God.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:42 PM

53. The truth is somewhere in between.

 

Clinton will effectively disengage people from dem party politics. Apathetic independents will be the new dominant "party"

This, coincidentally enough, is exactly what oligarchs want. This is Clinton math and her path to victory.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 01:52 PM

54. Voted Democrat for 40 Years...Going to Independent.

I have voted in every election--primaries, local, state, national--for Democratic candidates for over 40 years. I'm switching to Independent.
There's an article on the front page of today's LA Times about Democratic voters in Pennsylvania switching to the Republican Party.
The DNC has only itself to blame.
Thomas Frank sums it all up in "Listen, Liberal," which I'd advise you all to read, even if you don't agree with me or the premise of the book.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:10 PM

58. I'll unite, with people that have my values. That's it.

Sorry, that does not involve Election fraud, Voter Suppression, Warhawks, Fracking, Horrible Trade Agreements, and politicians in the the hands of corporations because they donated so much to them. Oh, also disgusting tactics used in an election.

Those are not, what I value.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:43 PM

61. Stick a fork in it.

Bernie threw a wrench into the machinery.

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Response to The Midway Rebel (Reply #61)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:46 PM

62. Thank God!

 

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 02:50 PM

65. That depends both on how closely she's listening...

...and how persuasive she can be. She's proven that she can be dragged--slowly--toward progressivism, but I don't think she can make us live Wall Street the way she does.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:15 PM

71. Every poll is the same

People think they are making a "statement" by voting a certain way.

Like cool man, look how rebellious I am

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:19 PM

72. Personally, I hope it splits.

I'm so done with the party as it stands.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:22 PM

73. I wonder if Hillary trolls came here and voted.

 

Last night it stayed 2/3'd believed the party would split.

The new votes have been way disproportionately Hillary.

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Response to Unicorn (Reply #73)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:51 PM

98. Welcome to DU.

Who the hell are you calling a troll?

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:24 PM

74. there will always be some disgruntled fools. think of them as the PUMA's of 2016

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #74)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:26 PM

75. I consider them Democratic Progressives who are consistent.

 

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:28 PM

76. Actual democrats and progressives will unify.

We've always understood half-a-loaf is better than none.

The people saying they won't vote for Hillary were never democrats to begin with, and we don't need them.

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Response to MirrorAshes (Reply #76)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:32 PM

77. No, they are the real democrats and they are still standing for real democratic principals when they

 

leave.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:32 PM

78. The answers to the issues that divide HRC and Bernie supporters are diametrically opposed

They cannot again be merged.

Fracking
NAFTA
$15/hr
Monsanto
GMO
Fucking TPP
Single Payer
Smaller Military
Breaking up Too Big To Fail - NOW!
etc
etc
etc

Bernies supporters are not going to simply say 'Oh Well, we gave it a shot. Now let go back to Status Quo and let Wall Street fuck us some more"
A few will kum ba yah back to the right wing. Bet most won't.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:33 PM

79. Probably most of Sanders' backers will vote for Hillary...

 

...and (very hopefully) set about building upon their organization in order to displace the current Party corporate leadership. Such an organization should be up and humming by the mid-terms so that it will make itself felt. Hillary may or may not go with this (frankly, I don't know from day-to-day what she thinks or supports), but a real alternative to the GOP will be in the offing.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #79)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:36 PM

82. Maybe we should stop making it a priority to beat the GOP and start making it a priority to vote

 

for our own good? We're harming our selves badly with this vote for the least evil thing.

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Response to Unicorn (Reply #82)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:47 PM

87. Far more important is the rapid build up of a progressive movement...

 

which will supplant the Beltway Bandits. This has to be done in any case because even a Sanders presidency is insufficient (hence the mid-termsl. It is barely tolerable to have Hillary as the lesser evil, but if a prog. movement is effectively built, she won't be in a very effective position to intensify the calcification of Party apparatus, and will barely be able to service the financial circle beyond what has already been done. A strong organization will check her as well as put into place a powerful run for the presidency maybe in 4 years. That organization MUST be built in any circumstance.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:34 PM

80. It is not that the Democratic Party will split - it's that Sec. Clinton will split the Party with...

her unbridled arrogance. The MSNBC Town Hall answer that she gave (regarding getting the supporters of Sen. Sanders to support her if she were the nominee) seems to indicate that she sees no need to reach out in any way to Sen. Sanders's supporters.

She will lose the GE if she keeps that attitude.

This is the DU member formerly known as xocet.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:35 PM

81. I would say split.. but it's our Party.. most definitely outlined by FDR

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:46 PM

86. Democrats will unite behind Clinton. No doubt about it. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #86)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:04 PM

90. If not, she'll get plenty of republican conservatives votes. Myself, it will be hard but I

 

might leave the office of president blank when I vote.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #90)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:06 PM

91. It's up to each of us. Best wishes. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #86)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:14 PM

118. Wishful thinking

My Bernie Boomer friends and our Millennial kids have no intention of voting for evil

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Response to Carolina (Reply #118)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:18 PM

121. Understood. But democrats, as most are now, will unite behind her. Nt

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #121)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:21 PM

122. Only

'Democrats' who believe in war/regime change, corporate supremacy, fracking ...

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Response to Carolina (Reply #122)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:25 PM

126. Actually, all kinds of dems.

 

It's a big tent.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #126)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:31 PM

130. of willfull blindness

and ignorance.

She is winning because of Brock-ops, media consolidation (thanks to hubby's Telecommunications Act) spinning inevitability, coin tosses, name recognition (Bills' coattails), voter disenfranchisement (by any means) and lies about her awful record which only Anderson Cooper challenged.


Her primary wins and likely nomination will be a Pyrrhic victory!

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Response to Carolina (Reply #130)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:56 PM

137. It will be a victory. Nt

 

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:11 PM

93. Unite behind Clinton, but hold her feet to the fire.

 

Will Hillary say "make me do it?" like FDR did? The Zeitgeist of the party is going Left; even a large chunk of Hillary supporters are ideologically more in line with Bernie (keep in mind she won "Very Liberal" voters in many states), they just see Hillary as the pragmatic choice for progressive policy advances in the face of GOP fascism.

At the end of the day, if you're worried about Hillary being a "Wall Street" president, then don't passively sit back and let her be a Wall Street president. People don't understand that what we call "triangulation to the right" was a means to keep power for some semblance of liberalism in the face of a GOP onslaught. But with a strong enough, bottom up, and especially intersectional progressive grassroots, we could see a "triangulation to the left" where the center-left Clinton gets pushed more to the left.

Or we can just keep on with the weeping and and moaning and gnashing of teeth because one candidate (who isn't a perfect progressive either) didn't win.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #93)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:53 PM

106. +1

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:35 PM

94. Neither. A large percent will remain in the party, but not vote for Hillary.

 

We will vote a straight ticket with the exception of President. That is what I plan to do. And I know lots of Democrats in real life who plan to do the same. Only on DU is it all or nothing.

We will remain Democrats. But there are certain Democrats we can not support.

And that is a two way street. Bill's 1992 campaign centered on the fact that he could control Liberal Democrats in Congress and defeat our agenda. They started it. We ignored it because we were loyal where they were not. And it cost us Congress.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #94)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:18 PM

120. Bravo!

So true

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:42 PM

96. Given the liklihood of status-quo, I believe the party will probably just become irrelevant.

 

You can hate him all you want but there's no denying that, win or lose, Bernie has awakened something in US politics that will not be going away any time soon.

I am very grateful that he has finally exposed the moneyed rot in the Democratic Party hierarchy. Not that we didn't all really know it was there, but he brought it out of the shadows and into full view.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:51 PM

99. Neither....or "none of the above."

 

I expect that Clinton won't make an effort to unify the party and win-or-lose, she will be the dead-end of that wing of the party. In 4 years, after she has governed like she has campaigned, she will either be forced-by-circumstance to not run again (in which case I think we'll hold the White House)...or will run and lose.

In any case, I don't expect a unity action and I don't expect that the Hillary wing of the party has a part in the future of the party. It's like the 1958 political drama The Last Hurrah directed by John Ford. The establishment candidate running for reelection manages to hold-on and get into the General Election but his inevitable defeat brings the political machine he represents to an end. It's not the loss of an election...it's literally the end of his entity politically.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:36 PM

100. It will unify and continue shrinking. nt

 

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:53 PM

107. Democrats will vote for Democrats

The people who are not Democrats but call themselves "Berniecrats"--signaling a political consciousness linked to one man's career--will do whatever it is they do. All Democrats can do is turn out our own supporters to vote. Republicans will work on their supporters, and if that includes some "Berniecrats," so be it.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:14 PM

111. I think there will simply be a bleed out of disaffected youth....

The party has basically blown its natural advantage with millennials and disaffected voters will swell in rank and simply the DNC will loose the alleged "The future voters are all liberal! We will win in the end!" Advantage.

The conservatives will likely pick up some of them via Libertarianism and the rest will simply just become politically disinterested believing the system is corrupt.

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Response to JPnoodleman (Reply #111)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:55 PM

114. You 'think'. The exact opposite is true.

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-most-important-poll-you-didn-t-see

Take all that together and you come away with pretty clear evidence that over the course of the Democratic primary young voters have become more attached to progressive politics and the Democratic party. One read of this is that the primary process itself - as divisive as it has sometimes seemed - has deepened young voters' identification with the Democratic party.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #114)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:36 PM

133. Wishful "thinking" on your part.

Bernie has excited young progressives and brought them in such that temporarily they identify with the Democratic party. He offers real hope.

That ends when Ms. Golden Sacks is nominated. That is the stab in the neck to progressivism.

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Response to randome (Reply #114)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:49 PM

136. I think that is optimistic...

But I think things can go south fast. Talking points are nice and friendly but I'd like to see hard data from sources without a vested interest in the DNC's survival.

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Response to JPnoodleman (Reply #136)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:01 PM

139. TalkingPointsMemo.com is my 2nd source of news. I trust them, for what that's worth.

 

And the Harvard Institute of Politics? Sounds reliable enough to me, absent evidence to the contrary.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:57 PM

116. Majority of Dems already support Hillary according to exit polls.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #116)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:22 PM

124. For the current states. How many had it the opposite. Several.

 

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:31 PM

131. Well considering the amount of people I feel forced to put on ignore tonight

and before, it will not be easy. The split will remain. I just hope we can join to keep Trump out. No one should be fooled by Trump's trade and war talk. Most of his trade talk blames immigrants and foreign workers. And his nuts speech on immigration will certainly help to lead to more war.

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Response to Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:57 PM

138. I'm pretty sure, after 20 some years of working for democrats....

 

I'm out. This isn't the party that it should be.

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