Bernie is HONEST??

[CrowCityDem]

Last night, during the MSNBC town hall, Bernie said two things, which taken together, show him to be as much of a two-faced politician as the people he has spent the past six months decrying.

He said that he will do everything in his power to make sure a Republican doesn't win the White House.

He also said that it's up to Hillary alone to convince his supporters to vote for her.

I'm sorry, but those two things do not jive at all. If Bernie is serious that he will do everything he can to stop Republicans from winning in November, the single biggest thing he can do is fully endorse Hillary and make sure he tells his supporters they need to go out and vote for her, and for other Democrats. They might not listen, as is their right, but it's his job as a Democrat now to make sure he is putting the message out there to support the party. The fact that he is hedging on that, while saying he's all-in for Democrats, is only a whisper away from being an outright lie.

[FBaggins]

1. Comparatively? Absolutely.

That doesn't mean that he isn't a politician in a campaign.

[hobbit709]

2. Hillary is a PROGRESSIVE?

[Baobab]

7. Not on anything involving money. The fact is, she is pushing a global deal

via the W T O to lower wages a lot and it will hurt us the most.

Its been in various stages of planning for 20 years.

during that time most jobs will be automated. So most people wont be working in a few years. She is trying to continue to impose austerity before people realize what's going on.

But it the wrong approach because concentration of wealth will cause an economic implosion as more and more people are forced out of their jobs, homes and then the country.

[Sparkly]

19. Yes.

[uponit7771]

29. More progressive than "We'll see" about supporting down ballot dems, no doubt

[hobbit709]

30. Sucking up to Golden Sacks is not progressive. Neither is war mongering.

[uponit7771]

32. Nor is the CFMA or Corporate immunity, Sanders is NOT the standard for progressiveness in

... America at all based on the facts

[hobbit709]

34. I doubt you would recognize progressive if it bit you on the posterior.

Clinton is to right of Obama and he's right of center.

[uponit7771]

45. Ad homs are an indicator of a weak position

[JonLeibowitz]

76. CFMA was stuffed into a Omnibus bill (thanks Bill Clinton) which he had to vote for.

The PLCAA is a fine law which makes perfect sense.

[uponit7771]

84. Again, Sanders gives no quarters so he gets none when it comes to nuance in votes

[LexVegas]

3. No, he isn't. nt

[berni_mccoy]

4. He said he'd do everything in his power to prevent a Repub in the White House

That's why he's trying to beat Hillary.

[Surya Gayatri]

5. Speaking with forked tongue...just like your average pol. But, he's NOT one, of course.

[Baobab]

12. Bernie is the best candidate we have had in my lifetime.

by far. Hillary is like Nixon, she's a slick compulsive liar.


She has no compassion in her, its all a big act. Listen to her laughing about getting the gang rapist of a 12 year old girl off scot free. (with time served)

She is 100% in the pockets of the worst big corporations- the ones which treat people like crap.

[uponit7771]

37. Not in mine, Team Used Car Salesmen are not fooling anyone with Senator "we'll see"

[Downwinder]

6. It is not in his power.

[Barack_America]

11. Exactly. Not complicated to figure out at all.

And he's right, there is nothing he can say to convince me to vote for Hillary.

[liberal from boston]

74. Go Bernie

Hillary is for the status quo when what is needed now is a bold vision--so sad she repeated last night the lie about the NYDN interview when it was Bernie who wrote & introduced the bill "Too Big to Fail, Too Big To Exist." Robert Reich on Senator Sanders: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/bernie_and_the_big_banks_20160410

[Thinkingabout]

8. It will be a test of leadership.

[Trust Buster]

9. He has shamelessly pandered to college students with promises he know he can't deliver.

He is not honest at all IMO.

[Baobab]

13. Why, because of WTO?

Is this why you think we can't have new public services?

http://www.iatp.org/files/GATS_and_Public_Service_Systems.htm

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. Oh, for cripes sake.

It is Hillary's job to make her case to the voters.

If she wants the vote, it is up to HER to do the convincing, not some surrogate(s).

And yes, Bernie is honest. That is Hillary's weak link, actually

[Broward]

14. Why are you pretending that you care about honesty in a pol?

Aren't you backing Hillary?

[democrattotheend]

15. How are those positions inconsistent or dishonest?

He can do everything he can to prevent a Republican from getting into the White House, including endorsing Hillary and encouraging his supporters to back her. But as he said, he can't just wave a magic want and make us support her. If she wants Bernie's supporters to vote for her she will have to convince those of us who are wavering. As Bernie correctly notes, even if he encourages his supporters to vote for her, he doesn't have the power to make us do it.

I fully expect that "doing everything in his power" to stop Republicans will include endorsing Hillary if and when she locks up the nomination. But as long as he is still in the race, he is not going to promise to do so, as such a promise might be interpreted as giving up and/or undermine his message about why he is the better candidate. I don't recall Hillary promising to endorse Obama and push her supporters to vote for him PRIOR to conceding in 2008.

[Lucinda]

16. Nice catch! And no. I used to think he was honest, but he has proved me wrong.

I've shared his posts on FB for a very long time, but stopped mid-January when I realized he was deliberately lying about Hillary. He has run a very dishonest campaign, which makes me very sad.

[Armstead]

36. What lies about Clinton?

[uponit7771]

42. That taking 1/30 her 1 year salary over 5 years from the banks constitutes influence of any kind

... that's a bold faced lie

[Armstead]

49. No that's a matter of whether you trust absolutely that it would have no influence or not.

Opinions can vety on that...but not a lie.

Let me put it anotehr way...If you think such things have absolutely no bearing on politics or government or decisions, then there is no problem with Citizens United and we don't need any campaign reform whatsoever.

And you can say she wasn't considering running for president then.......Well you know better than that. So did the banks. So did she.

[uponit7771]

53. I gave Sanders 23 cents, that'll influence him ... yeah... ok,... the excuses abound when it

... comes to Sanders sophistry.

He's NOT the progressive standard for America, not at all

[bobbobbins01]

17. How many socks...

does it take to make a puppet?

[pnwmom]

18. He also lied about not having any SuperPac. He has them, he's just not condoning them.

By law, he can't stop them or coordinate with them anymore than Hillary can stop or coordinate with hers.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/bernie-sanders-super-pac/420930/

But even for Sanders, escaping the pull of money in politics is not easy.

A few loyal fans of the senator have hit upon the idea of using super PACs as a way to show support. In an odd twist of fate, Sanders can’t do much to stop that. Almost anyone can set up a super PAC, and the outside groups are supposed to operate independently from candidates. That creates a headache for the campaign: Each time a super PAC crops up, Sanders faces pressure to renounce it and ward off charges of hypocrisy.

Sanders’s opposition to super PACs leaves supporters with a difficult choice. Should they renounce super PACs as well, even if creating one could help their favorite candidate? If they make use of one, how do they justify that decision?

Some supporters have taken steps to create super PACs, only to abandon their efforts after realizing it wouldn’t sit well with the campaign. Others have forged ahead with spending operations that qualify as super PACs, while defiantly rejecting the label.

[Armstead]

39. Your title and the content of the article are contraductory

[pnwmom]

51. No, they are not. And has Bernie disavowed the nurses's union superpac, that was

announced with great fanfare?

Neither Bernie nor Hillary can stop super pacs. The law doesn't allow them to do so.

[Armstead]

58. You are not naive

Sometimes context does matter.

The article noted that Sanders has discouraged people who wanted to form them.

I'll also be honest and say he's more than likely very happy that the nurses Pac is working for him.

But there is a whole lot of difference between an organization of nurses who support single payer health coverage and quality medical care and Superpacs financed by corporations, the wealthy and other Big Bidness interests who want to feather their nests through government influence...and operate on the scale of Clintons's do,

And just as the nudge,nudge wink wonk that Sanders has with the nurses, you think Clinton's superPacs don't have understandings?

Personally I prefer the nurses.

[pnwmom]

64. How was it not a lie for him to announce in the Town Hall that he has no super pac,

when even you acknowledge the nurses' super pac, saying that "he's more than likely very happy that the nurses Pac is working for him"?

[Armstead]

65. I'm not naive eitehr

But as I said...I prefer a group of nurses working for what they are working for than a bunch of Fat Cat Piggies who are investing in politicians so they can taker over even more of the government and feed at the trough.

[pnwmom]

67. You're not naive so it's okay when Bernie lies. Got it. n/t

[Armstead]

68. Call it what you want. She lies on a much larger and more damaging scale.

[Skwmom]

20. Did you ever think doing everything he can INCLUDES trying to get the Democratic Establishment to

understand that his supporters are not just going to support Hillary because he asks. Things have changed.

[Octafish]

21. As opposed to raising $230,000,000 cash from speeches to banks, foreign governments & corporations.

Which, increasingly, seem to be the same thing.

What makes the Clintons different than most business tycoons, many of whom are featured on the Forbes World’s Billionaires list, is that they have made their fortune in straight cash, not equity gains. The people featured on our billionaires list are worth far more than the Clintons, but the vast majority of their wealth is wrapped up in their ownership of various companies. Many of the billionaires on our list take in less cash each year than the Clintons. Bill and Hillary’s liquidity gives them a war chest to employ during political campaigns. In 2008, Hillary loaned her campaign $13.2 million. She has never disclosed paying herself back.

It is unclear exactly what the Clintons have done with the rest of the money they have made. Layering years of disclosure documents on top of annual tax returns, Forbes estimates that the Clintons are worth a combined $45 million. They spent $95 million on taxes, their two houses cost a combined $5 million, and they gave $22 million to charity from 2001-14, according to historical tax returns and property records. But as Forbes outlined in a separate story last month, that leaves $50 million missing.

“That’s kind of strange,” said Joe Biden’s accountant, Walter Deyhle. “You have to report all of your assets. You have to report assets that are owned by your spouse.”

One thing that is clear: The Clintons no longer have to worry if they can afford that multimillion-dollar house in Washington, D.C., or really anything else.

SOURCE: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2015/10/13/how-the-clintons-made-more-than-230-million-after-leaving-the-white-house/2/#337a227c4ddd

Lot more goes on than meets the eye, thanks to shell companies.

[NCTraveler]

22. He is as honest as most career politicians.

Better than most I would say. It's clear he has a penchant to lie when it suits him.

[Armstead]

47. How is what he said a lie?

A little evasive but far from a it.

1)He will do everything he can to stop the GOP from the WH. True...... He has been running for the nomination. One assumes he is running because he thinks he would win against the GOP....The future has not yet happened, so you can say he won't try to do what he says at this point.

2)He can't force his supporters to support Clinton. They will make up their own minds. And it will be Clinton's job to earn their votes. No lies there.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. Sanders has run the most dishonest Democratic primary campaign I can remember.

He has made vast numbers of promises that he must know he will not be able to keep.

[Fast Walker 52]

40. at least he has proposed concrete things we can hold him too

I honestly have no idea of one concrete policy that Hillary wants to put into place.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

41. If so, that's your fault, not hers. N.T.

[Fast Walker 52]

43. Really? It's up to her to communicate to Dem voters.

So what are a couple of clear promises she has made?

[uponit7771]

56. +1, His main argument against Clinton is she's sold out to Wall Street for taking 1/30th of one year

... salary over 5 years as speaking fees.

[Kall]

63. So when Hillary campaigns on gun control,

is it your belief that she'll be able to deliver? I doubt the sincerity of her position in the first place, considering that 8 years ago she was running down Obama for being too tough on guns, but she's free to make the case for what she thinks is right if that's what she now thinks.

Candidates are entitled to state what they believe are the optimal solutions and what the public will support, and campaign on them. To do otherwise would be ludicrous. In case you didn't notice from 2008-2010, pre-conceding doesn't get you anything except a stimulus that is too small, a health care bill that is the Republican health care counter-proposal from the 1990s, and budget deals that according to John Boehner were "98% of what he wanted" - and, thereafter, gets you your head handed to you in the midterms.

If you want a public option, you don't start by proposing Mitt Romney's health care bill and asking Olympia Snowe or Ben Nelson for a public option. You make a case for universal Medicare, which is already a broadly popular program, and negotiate from there. Similarly, if you want a $12/hour minumum wage, you don't start by asking for a $12/hour minimum wahe - you start negotiating by asking for a $15/hour minimum wage.

[november3rd]

24. If Hillary Can't Convince Democrats

To vote for her, she shouldn't run. But don't blame Sanders.

[CrowCityDem]

25. Since Bernie cant get D's to vote for him, he should concede now.

[uponit7771]

44. enough will, like they have in the past

[uponit7771]

55. Obama won... twice... evidence enough?! tia

[uponit7771]

60. The same Sandrers is doing now; Sanders is winning the same coalition Clinton lost with in 08 so...

... Team Used Car Salesmen have learned nothing about the democratic base.

[Buddyblazon]

26. CrowCityDem is a sock puppet.

Ignore their posts.

[DeadLetterOffice]

71. Jury results

On Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:54 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

CrowCityDem is a sock puppet.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1840659

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Who is this guy calling out anyone like that here? I know it's going to get nasty today, but this is blatant.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Apr 26, 2016, 05:06 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I have sniffed out a few before myself, just by noticing the same writing styles or spelling/grammar mistakes, and called them out on it. That was WAY before juries, though. Let it stand, and let MIRT handle it. They can check IP addressess and such with this software. The last I checked, you couldn't call a troll a troll, but you could state it in nicer terms.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've heard worse from the candidates.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm not a fan of name calling so everyone I vote on will be treated the same. Personal attacks are uncalled for no matter how heated things might get
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[Buddyblazon]

72. Thank you...

DLO. Have a great day.

[qdouble]

27. It's very obvious doublespeak...

Doing everything within his power to make sure the republicans don't take back the white house includes emphatically supporting Hillary Clinton once it's clear he has no path to winning the nomination. If he doesn't rally for Clinton eventually, he's a pure liar.

[Sky Masterson]

28. "He also said that it's up to Hillary alone to convince his supporters to vote for her. "

YES! It is up to her. It should be!
A candidate doesn't own their voters.
Anyone who votes for someone because they are commanded to shouldn't vote in the first place.
A vote is your voice and nobody owns your voice but you!
They are under no obligation to tow the line.

[CrowCityDem]

38. Bernie can't force anyone...

but he can, and should, make it clear that he wants his followers to support the Democratic party and the Democratic nominee. That's what it would mean to do everything you can.

[Sky Masterson]

48. When we get to the convention

And if he loses.
He will.
This happens in every race.
Chill, calm down.

[pandr32]

31. 100% agree!

[Kall]

33. Yeah.

He said he'll do everything he can do prevent a Republican President. He can't make a case that Hillary Clinton is something she's not. What's he supposed to do, say she's been consistent in her opposition to the "gold standard" TPP that she spent years selling? She has to make the case for her new position herself.

This isn't 2008, there are big differences between the Democratic candidates, not histrionics over what somebody meant when they said the other one was "likeable enough."

It's not like he said he was shot at by Bosnian snipers or something.

[aikoaiko]

46. They jive completely if you understand Bernie and his supporters.

[Sky Masterson]

50. What are we like?

Describe me. My age, what I think , Where I stand on issues.
Being partisan is one thing but you're broad brushing people who you don't even know.
I am friends with many Hillary supporters. They are all different.
I am friends with many Bernie Supporters. They are all different

[aikoaiko]

54. I'm not following your question.

What I'm saying is that by telling HRC she must earn Bernie supporter votes he is doing what he can to help beat Republicans.

[Sky Masterson]

57. Well, I actually agree with what you just wrote.

The first comment had me taken back. Anyways.
No biggie. Have a good one

[basselope]

61. You missed the line before.

Where Bernie explained he can't snap his fingers and MAKE his supporters do anything.

For example. Bernie could come to my house and personally beg me to vote for Clinton and I still wouldn't do it.

Now, if Clinton didn't have such a long history of broken promises I would have considered voting for her if she changed her platform to be progressive. However, I don't trust her.

But, maybe there are some people who will believe her if she adopts a progressive agenda.

[fluffyclouds]

62. you're straning at gnats

Hillary calls herself a dem but he might think of her as a republican based on her behavior and the positions she holds. Thats how I think of her. So what he's saying makes perfect sense to me.

[TheKentuckian]

66. Those statements are both accurate and there is no logical disconnect

I know it is hard for folks that have the cult of personality as their primary lens but Sanders can only control himself not me and my support is in no way transferable no matter how much he pleads, cajoles, screams, begs, or attempts to order.

The only Jewish guy that might be described as Socialist friendly that has that kind of influence on me is a couple thousand years older than Bernie, isnt eligible to run for President of the USA, and once spent a whole Friday afternoon nailed to a tree.

[840high]

69. Amen, +1

[CrowCityDem]

73. It's not if he gets you to vote for her, it's whether he TRIES.

[TheKentuckian]

75. He will try and I'm sure lay down his opinions about the stakes. He'll bash pukes

Thing is I'm in no different place on Clinton than I was before Sanders had made a peep and it isn't just her by any stretch but the whole wrong-headed ideology.

It is my belief that "lesser evilisim" is not a long term answer even if it makes sense in a one off situation. The harm reduction is not proven to hold when this goes on for a protracted period because both greater and lesser grow worse the whole time, the "choice" gives way to a death spiral.

If there is no will to say no more then where it all stops nobody knows and I figure it is far less dangerous to not find out.

There isn't a good and convenient time to say no (though before now would have been better) but no must start being said.

[AgingAmerican]

70. He doesn't command his supporters like robots

Duh!

[bettyellen]

77. Must be the company you keep- most people I know considered both candidates carefully.

But they are a smart bunch. Very few are into conspiracy theories or empty rhetoric.

[AgingAmerican]

78. Sanders doesn't command his supporters like robots

Nor does he have to pay a million dollars for their 'support'.

As a side note, he also doesn't order them to attack pro Hillary facebook groups with pornography like David Brock does in Hillary's name. Reportedly child-porn.

[bettyellen]

79. Sanders has been wasting some big money on getting his message out, and people are rejecting him.

I don't see Hillary commanding anyone to do anything except vote.
Maybe Bernie underestimated the hard work that goes into GOTV?

[AgingAmerican]

80. Cat is out of the bag with Hillary

A million dollars buys a lot of 'supporters'.

[bettyellen]

81. Bernie spent more money in many states- so his "bribes" aren't working I guess.

[AgingAmerican]

82. And the million dollars is spent on what?

Porn-spamming Sanders FB groups....

[bettyellen]

83. Bernie has been paying for internet post since last summer, LOL.

Suck things are getting contentious on FB, but only if you think this thing can be won on FB or Twitter does that matter.
And it can't.

[AgingAmerican]

85. You are projecting