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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » It's time to "call it"

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:44 AM

It's time to "call it"

It could have been a hard fought contest of ideals, ideas and vision. Instead it became a shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establishment -- except we get the cage and The Establishment gets the gild.

It could have been a debate about how to achieve the goals we once shared. Instead it became a timid retreat into every fable for failure put forward by the obstructionist opposition.

It could have been a rejection of unjust war, corporatism and lawless government. Instead we have been treated to hurricane force winds from all the hand-waving because not voting for blue corruption is supposedly a love of red corruption.

It could have been civil. Instead, every effort was made to brand those who have stood for decades fighting for civil rights and rallying around our beleaguered president for nigh-on 8 years into racist and sexists.

It couldn't even wait for the natural tides of a common foe to bring the unity that was supposedly being demanded. No, instead it became a cry to begin a countdown clock to blind, uncritical obedience; of party over principle; compliance over commonality.

Progressivism? Liberalism?

Yeah. Right.

It's time to call it.

79 replies, 2727 views

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Arrow 79 replies Author Time Post
Reply It's time to "call it" (Original post)
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 OP
bigwillq Apr 2016 #1
Faux pas Apr 2016 #2
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #3
bigwillq Apr 2016 #7
Snotcicles Apr 2016 #9
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #11
Snotcicles Apr 2016 #20
Fairgo Apr 2016 #78
amborin Apr 2016 #13
JTFrog Apr 2016 #22
TheBlackAdder Apr 2016 #54
Orsino Apr 2016 #4
CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #5
artislife Apr 2016 #8
frylock Apr 2016 #18
JudyM Apr 2016 #35
rhett o rick Apr 2016 #12
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #14
seabeyond Apr 2016 #34
JudyM Apr 2016 #37
seabeyond Apr 2016 #40
JudyM Apr 2016 #41
seabeyond Apr 2016 #42
JudyM Apr 2016 #43
seabeyond Apr 2016 #48
polly7 Apr 2016 #53
JaneyVee Apr 2016 #36
JudyM Apr 2016 #39
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #44
LineLineReply .
Dragonfli Apr 2016 #28
Gore1FL Apr 2016 #30
Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #45
redstatebluegirl Apr 2016 #51
think Apr 2016 #6
Joob Apr 2016 #10
rhett o rick Apr 2016 #15
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #16
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #17
LonePirate Apr 2016 #19
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #23
LonePirate Apr 2016 #38
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #46
longship Apr 2016 #21
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #27
actslikeacarrot Apr 2016 #24
cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #25
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #26
JaneyVee Apr 2016 #31
Gore1FL Apr 2016 #49
LWolf Apr 2016 #29
dana_b Apr 2016 #32
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #56
LWolf Apr 2016 #57
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #59
LWolf Apr 2016 #65
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #69
seabeyond Apr 2016 #33
Gore1FL Apr 2016 #47
seabeyond Apr 2016 #50
Gore1FL Apr 2016 #52
seabeyond Apr 2016 #58
Gore1FL Apr 2016 #60
seabeyond Apr 2016 #61
Gore1FL Apr 2016 #62
seabeyond Apr 2016 #63
Gore1FL Apr 2016 #64
seabeyond Apr 2016 #74
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #66
seabeyond Apr 2016 #67
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #68
seabeyond Apr 2016 #70
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #71
seabeyond Apr 2016 #72
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #73
seabeyond Apr 2016 #76
seabeyond Apr 2016 #75
closeupready Apr 2016 #55
Jackie Wilson Said Apr 2016 #77
whistler162 Apr 2016 #79

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:46 AM

1. Skinner says:

 

At this time it appears that we still have two candidates who are still in the race, and are still participating in elections in a number of states. Therefore it is still primary election season on DU.

At this point, the plan is for primary season to continue on DU until a candidate drops out or the voting is over -- whichever happens first.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910165

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:47 AM

2. Thank you

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:48 AM

3. I'm not trying to be snarky but did you even read my OP?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:49 AM

7. Yes.

 

Just putting out the call it messgae in all threads that have call it in the title even if it's not about this call it

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:53 AM

9. People have seen so many "call it" post, they just assume. nt

 

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Response to Snotcicles (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:59 AM

11. Understandable, which is why I didn't want to be snarky.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:08 AM

20. That's respectful. nt

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:27 PM

78. I'll call it...

Democracy, time of death...September 11, 2001.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:00 AM

13. HRC still needs 70% of the remaining delegates to get the nomination; it's not at all clear she can

the race continues

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Response to amborin (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:12 AM

22. Right.

 

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:48 PM

54. Don't you love the FREELOADERS without a star next to their Username who complain/instruct the site?

.


Websites aren't free, and the guys who abuse the services the most, contribute the least financially!


It's like a party crasher who mooches off the food and entertainment and then complains about the host and guests!


They are nothing but disruptive and then in the end, one finds that they've also defiled the bathroom before leaving.


There are a shitload of complainers, about this site and its paying guests, on just this one OP alone.


.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:48 AM

4. Thank goodness.

I was afraid we wouldn't see a new arbitrary date picked today.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:48 AM

5. It could have been civil...

 

instead, every effort was made to brand those who want to continue the slow yet real progress this country has made into corporate whores and false progressives who are actually Republicans.

It is time to call it. 'Progressivism' has a massive smugness problem.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:50 AM

8. Not even a month, and yet another h supporter on the fainting couch

 

What the eff, people?

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Response to artislife (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:05 AM

18. Just another Brockboy.

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Response to artislife (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:44 AM

35. And, oh, the smugness is on *our* part... riiiiiight.



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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:00 AM

12. We may have made some "slow progress" in a few areas of social justice but

 

we've taken giant steps backward in our voting system, our Prisons For Profits, the growing wealth gap, fighting homelessness, fighting for American jobs, accepting torture and war crimes as "some folks did stuff", our crumbling infrastructure, etc.

I'd say the smugness is from those that side with the banksters and pretend to care about those among the 99% that are struggling. Those that believe that bank profits come first.

You guys didn't want any challenge to your "chosen one". You wanted to "call it" before it started. And now, after disparaging the Left, you want to demand loyalty.

Progressives don't make good little authoritarian followers. Those that do will never understand.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:01 AM

14. If someone doesn't like being accused of doling out favors in exchange for payments there is a

good way to handle the situation --

PROVE THEM WRONG

Either show how there was no quid pro quo and/or stop engaging in the sorts of behaviors that lead to such allegations.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:43 AM

34. Sanders sold his vote in 1991 to the Democrats. The problem is the fantasy of what Sanders isn't

 

while demanding different standards from Clinton.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:45 AM

37. WTH?!!

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Response to JudyM (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:53 AM

40. What part of that is confusing to you. Perfectly legit, still politician.

 

Sanders supporters paint Sanders into a non politician, and he is no more less than a politician, just likes to pretend otherwise. While you have Clinton literally as a .... well, avoiding the vulgar, offensive anyway.

Then you guys expect a reasonable conversation. Not going to happen.

WTH? Sanders literally, sold his vote... to the Democratic party in 1991. Literally, sold his vote.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #40)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:58 AM

41. We do not paint him as a non-politician. We see by his actions that he is non-corrupt.

While no one is perfect, the brazen corruption of Clinton goes beyond even most of the other unsavory corruption we see in many politicians. Really, using her position as SOS to arrange arms deals in "oh,my, how coincidental!" exchange for Clinton Foundation donations. Puhleeeze.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #41)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:08 AM

42. Of course you paint him in purity. Which is wrong. Sold support of F35. His job. In his state,

 

his voters, throws money at a bad deal. Politician. NRA.... representing his voters.

Politician.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #42)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:45 AM

43. There is no purity, as I said. But there is also no comparison between these two candidates' morals.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #43)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:53 AM

48. I couldn't disagree with you more on the moral issue. Nt

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #40)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:33 PM

53. Borrowed this from leftcoastmountains.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:44 AM

36. Do you also accuse people of murder then ask them to prove they didnt?

 

Bernie needs to provide the evidence or shut up.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:52 AM

39. The FBI is doing that for him...

This just in from DOJ:

"The FBI has stated publicly that it received and “is working on a referral (from) Inspectors General in connection with former Secretary of State Clinton’s use of a private email server."
http://lawnewz.com/important/doj-claims-unsealing-fbi-declaration-could-jeopardize-clinton-email-investigation/

Do you know what a "referral" is? That is a case the FBI is preparing to give to DOJ to prosecute --and as stated above, it is about *her use* of the private server, not about other people's actions, but *her use*.

And it is tied to the fact that she used it for the purpose of evading detection of quid pro quo activities.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:47 AM

44. If they are holding a knife in their hand while standing over a stabbed body --

you kinda are allowed to ask.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:37 AM

28. .

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:39 AM

30. There are less liberal sites if progressivism isn't your thing.

You shouldn't limit yourself DU if the rhetoric bothers you.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #30)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

45. No money in it.

 

Just sayin'...

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:02 PM

51. Not to mention the ageism with this election.

The assumption that anyone who supports Hillary is an oldster who should just get out of the way gets really old sometimes.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:48 AM

6. Well said...

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:53 AM

10. You know how when a Doctor tries to save a Patient but fails?

Well Bernie hasn't failed, so Democracy isn't dead yet! No point on giving up on the Democratic Party now.

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Response to Joob (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:02 AM

15. So far we are right on track. We knew that fighting the corrupt Establishment would

 

be a fight. But millions now know that they are not alone, that they don't have to bow down to a tough authoritarian leader chosen by the big banks.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:02 AM

16. "Principles" are so 2003. n/t

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:03 AM

17. The pic in your sig makes me chortle.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:06 AM

19. The OP clearly has made no effort to understand why Hillary's supporters back her.

The entire post reads as a complete refusal to make an effort to understand the other side given the broadsides and accusations in the post.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:21 AM

23. I know what has been put to me as defenses of Clinton by Clinton supporters.

I cannot be blamed if I take them at their word.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:47 AM

38. Except I've never seen anything on DU that even comes close to what you say you've been told.

You're playing loose and fast with opinions you consider to be facts.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:50 AM

46. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't real. It just means you haven't seen it.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:12 AM

21. For Christ sakes! Stop ringing that cockamamie bell!

It's like an infantile tantrum!!

Grow up!

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Response to longship (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:30 AM

27. "It's like an infantile tantrum!!"

I agree.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:26 AM

24. It's clear as a bell. If a "D" supports it, war is ok.

The anti war movement seems to be dead. At least in the democratic party.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:28 AM

25. Call it what.

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:29 AM

26. Call it "racist" "sexist" and "naive" and then demand it vote for your candidate.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:40 AM

31. Im sorry, but who exactly called you racist and sexist?

 

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:55 AM

49. Examples may be found using the following google searches:

bernie racist site:democraticunderground.com

bernie sexist site:democraticunderground.com

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:38 AM

29. No.

"It" gets "called" at the convention. Not before. But thanks for your efforts to disenfranchise my state, and the rest who have not yet gotten to participate in the democratic process by casting their primary vote.

It amazes me how undemocratic so many Democrats are.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:41 AM

32. +1

I gotta get out of here. All these people giving up and "calling it". It's not done until Bernie says it is done and he is taking it to the convention (thankfully!!).

I'm a Californian and I will vote for him and hopefully attend one of his rallies.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:57 PM

56. I would like to politely suggest that you're misinterpreting the OP.

And towards that suggestion I offer the point that I agree with your reply vis-à-vis the other demands that we "call it."

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #56)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:03 PM

57. If you are not

suggesting that DU prematurely "call" the winner of the primaries, then you are right. I'm not only misinterpreting, I have no idea what you are talking about.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #57)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:14 PM

59. The "It could have been" portion of each paragraph refers to what I believe

Sen. Sanders campaign has meant for me. The "Instead" portion refers to the arguments I have read or had applied towards me by those who reject his campaign -- and it is those voices who have, unfortunately, carried the most weight in the nomination process.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #59)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:49 PM

65. Read from that lens,

it's more understandable, to be sure.

I agree with the individual statements.

The "it" I'm calling is different than the "it" that has been called for repeatedly this week in GD.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #65)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:20 PM

69. Thank you for allowing me to explain and giving me a fair reading.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:42 AM

33. First sentence. That is not true. I am so tired of the over the top, while suggesting reason.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:52 AM

47. "It could have been a hard fought contest of ideals, ideas and vision." is the first sentence

Are you suggesting that Democrats can't have a contest of ideals, ideas, and vision? How is suggesting that we are capable of such a thing over the top?

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #47)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:57 AM

50. My bad. The first two sentences. The contradictory hypocrisy and irony

 

It could have been a hard fought contest of ideals, ideas and vision. Instead it became a shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establishment -- except we get the cage and The Establishment gets the gild.


It could have been.


Ya, maybe and interesting that.

shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establishment


Defining others as... pretty much stops any ..... "It could have been"

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #50)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:07 PM

52. I am not seeing the contradiction or the failure in describing this nomination phase on DU. nt

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:11 PM

58. shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establi

 

Last edited Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)

If one perceives conversation in this manner, there will never be a .... could have been a discussion.

You do not see a failure? I do. I pretty much get how that language closes any kind of conversation, and yet.... here i continue to try.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:59 PM

60. It describes my experience in GD:P and the HRC forum. YMMV nt

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #60)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:16 PM

61. Well, I can say a whole lot of nasty, rotten things about Sanders supporters. Not gonna accomplish

 

a damn thing which is the point of the last three or four posts.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #61)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:22 PM

62. You don't need to. It happens a lot already. Hence Nuclear Unicorn's OP. n/t

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #62)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:25 PM

63. Nu uh. Not hence Nuclears OP. She gets to own the nasty all on her own. Lordy.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #63)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:41 PM

64. It nonetheless describes the toxicity of DU and the weird desire for Skinner to "call it"

Because we all know that Skinner is the secret power behind the Democratic Party in this country.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #64)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:16 PM

74. And I, nonetheless, disagree. It was just another OP ridiculously dissing other Democrats.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:02 PM

66. GD:P has been littered for days with thread after thread calling for Skinner to "call it"

You cannot deny this fact.

The subtext of each of those threads is to shutdown -- shout down -- all further debate and force obedience to the TOS requiring party unity in the general election. We are being told to set aside our principles, shut-up, get back in line and if we don't we ought to be banned.

And for what?

"Gotta beat the GOP!"

Beat the GOP with what? Someone Charles Koch and John Boehner could gladly accept as president.

That's the gilded cage.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #66)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:07 PM

67. "Beat the GOP with what?" To the point of purely ridiculous.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #67)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:08 PM

68. To the point of purely ridiculous.

Hence the 3rd paragraph of my OP.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #68)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:22 PM

70. It is an absurd way to define Clinton. So, when people get on your ass, or others...

 

This might have something to do with it. One can pull the innocent act, but it just is not gonna fly.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #70)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:29 PM

71. How should we define the hawkishness and the cozying up with the corporate set?

Or are we supposed to just pretend it isn't there?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #71)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:34 PM

72. Pretend ... Just as you pretend that Sanders is not sitting right next to Clinton.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #72)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:49 PM

73. You try to castigate me for absurdities and then you post that.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #73)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:19 PM

76. I am not seeing a correlation.

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #71)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:17 PM

75. Sanders sits right with Clinton and that is the absurdity of your argument. His is simply

 

a smaller scale in the state of Vermont, same thing. Same with the supposed "hawkish" votes you all go on and on and on about, pretending Sanders is all that in peace loving.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:49 PM

55. DRAMA QUEEN ALERT!! DRAMA QUEEN ALERT!!

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:19 PM

77. Board owners would be cutting their profits in half if they got rid of all the

Bernie folks who are going to allow fascists to take over our government.

If I ran this place I wouldnt run them off, I would want the profits they provide too.

I have never wanted to run them off, I just want them to admit where they stand.

When I do that though they get a jury together and censor me.

That shit has to fucking stop.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:48 PM

79. OK



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