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Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:32 PM

About the policy of "supporters only of the presumptive nominee" & accompanying "purge" of others

Full disclosure: I have been a DU member for over a decade, and well remember how bitter the primary election cycle of 07-08 was (as a staunch Obama supporter from the first months of his declared campaign). Of course, there were few if any supporters of Hillary Clinton that had any problem supporting Barack Obama on or off DU, as far as I could see. And indeed, the political climate was such that Democrats had much smoother sailing INTRINSICALLY as opposed to relying on how distasteful the GOP choices were.
This cycle, I supported the idea of Bernie Sanders running -- and running in the Democratic primary campaign rather than as a 3d party splinter candidate -- from before he even announced, and have backed him from day 1 with multiple (albeit modest) donations.
I plan to continue to support him all the way, and if Hillary is the nominee, then in that situation I plan to join Bernie, as he has promised, in supporting her. I also support every effort to get as many Democrats to defeat GOP candidates in both House and Senate races, and have already donated in a number of these to Democratic candidates.

But I am aware that MANY MANY Bernie supporters, both on DU as among others that I encounter on the web, say at least at this point that they have no intention of voting for Hillary ever. There are many who advocate for what I think would be the counterproductive approach -- one Bernie surely is too smart to indulge -- of splitting off and running an Independent candidacy for president or endorsing Jill Stein or something if he isn't nominated. One reason this is counterproductive FOR BERNIE'S OWN MOVEMENT GOALS (and those of supporters like myself) is that any further effort to mobilize the more progressive Democrats WITHIN (as well as mobilizing outside) the Democratic Party would be largely foreclosed; this would be especially true of efforts to reach out to those who are progressive leaning and who backed Hillary in the primary campaign.

At any rate, Bernie supporting the Democrats would apparently NOT be sufficient for a lot of "Bernie-or-busters". I would like to both try to win them over during the campaign (particularly if they are eligible to vote in 'swing' states) but if they are purged or silenced on DU, that won't be possible at least here. Some suggest just going to other venues (like Reich's FaceBook threads) but that is rarely if ever as good a forum for that kind of discussion as DU

I would like to open up debate about the 'purge' policy. At minimum, those who cannot (at any point from the Convention on) bring themselves to support the Party's nominee should at least have limited posting priveleges, if that can be cybernetically accomplished by DU) in certain fora or forum, where at least their political allies in the primary campaign who now support the nominee can debate with them. That would I think be more likely to further DU's goals. And if posting privileges are limited, the danger of somehow damaging the larger site can be obviated

Personally, even this goes against my very strong free speech principles, but it would be better than the status quo

DOES ANYONE out there think there is anything to broaching this discussion? Is it permissible?

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Arrow 16 replies Author Time Post
Reply About the policy of "supporters only of the presumptive nominee" & accompanying "purge" of others (Original post)
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 OP
Lil Missy Apr 2016 #1
cwydro Apr 2016 #9
yallerdawg Apr 2016 #2
NurseJackie Apr 2016 #12
leftofcool Apr 2016 #3
LWolf Apr 2016 #4
brooklynite Apr 2016 #5
aikoaiko Apr 2016 #6
pdsimdars Apr 2016 #7
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #8
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #10
mmonk Apr 2016 #11
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #13
PowerToThePeople Apr 2016 #14
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #16
sufrommich Apr 2016 #15

Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:37 PM

1. There is no "purge policy". n/t

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:59 PM

9. Thank you.

Skinner has addressed this and said the same thing.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:41 PM

2. Whatever happened to Dicussionist?

Wasn't that wide open for - "alternative" opinions?

Why this compulsion to keep kicking sand in this Democratic sandbox?

We have our nominee and we know who the enemy is!

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:01 AM

12. It seems, in my opinion, that DU and that site have many similarities.

Why this compulsion to keep kicking sand in this Democratic sandbox?

Because they can. And because nobody's stopping them.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:45 PM

3. DU is Democratic Underground period

You can either support the Democratic nominee or don't but you will not be able to trash Hillary, call her a liar, promote a 3rd party run, link to right wing trash sites etc............ You can discuss Bernie in the Bernie group.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:50 PM

4. There is no purge policy.

When the primaries are over, those who don't get in line will do one of 2 things:

1. They will openly discuss their positions about the general election, which will get them a time-out and/or tombstone.

2. They will simply not discuss the general election at all at DU, self-censoring to comply with DU TOS. They may spend time here discussing other things, in other groups. Their time may become limited because elections tend to dominate the conversations. They may just take some time off and come back after the election is done. You won't be able to discuss whether or not the left wing of the Democratic Party, Greens, Independents, Sanders supporters, and the rest of the left wing of the country should vote their conscience or suck it up and cast a lesser evil vote.


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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:51 PM

5. Any "Bernie or Bust" person is welcome here...

...provided they DON'T ADVOCATE FOR A THIRD PARTY VOTE.

they can vote for whom they want. They can discuss issues. They can responsibly criticize, or propose modifications to, Clinton's campaign message. They just can't encourage people to vote against her.

Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:57 PM

6. Its more of practice than a policy -- plus the owners can ban you just because they don't like you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

One more thing: Don't push your luck.
The DU Community Standards state: "It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints." Members who demonstrate a pattern of disruptive behavior over time and end up getting too many of their posts hidden by the jury (measured by raw number or percentage) may be found to be in violation of our Terms of Service. If you seem to be ruining this website for a large proportion of our visitors, if we think the community as a whole would be better off without you here, if you are constantly wasting the DU Administrators' time, if you seem to oppose the mission of DU, or if the DU Administrators just don't like you, we will revoke your posting privileges. Remember: DU is supposed to be fun don't make it suck.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:45 PM

7. Yea, I think this has become an obsession more than an actual issue.

 

People are obsessed with the idea of people not voting for the Democratic nominee. I think you should just let go. It is not a real thing. Not that I mean all those people will actually vote for her, but that if she becomes the nominee, what will the Bernie supporters have to argue about?

They aren't going to be arguing for Bernie to be the nominee because he wouldn't be. And they won't be arguing for him as an independent because he said he isn't going to run as an independent. So there is nothing to argue about that I can see.

I would not like Hillary to be the nominee, but if she is, what am I going to argue about? The Democratic party isn't going to turn around and un-nominate her just because now they think my arguments are so great.

You are fretting over something that isn't.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:57 PM

8. The "Love it or Leave it" wing of the party is eager quash dissent.

 

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:38 AM

11. I say wait and see what happens. Discussing this now I don't see serving

much of a purpose. I also expect Skinner to be fair.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:49 PM

13. you mean we shouldn't discuss this until folk start getting purged?

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:53 PM

14. Skinner will give notice

 

Prior to any "purge."

People will have an opportunity to make informed choices on their posting patterns.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 05:30 PM

16. but what about formulating reformed policies and garnering broad support for them on DU?

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:03 PM

15. That term "free speech" has been so diluted in

the internet age it's very meaning is threatened. When you join an internet forum,you agree to the TOS. If they day comes that you disagree with that TOS,you have a myriad of other options to say whatever you want,somewhere else. You can't trash the democratic nominee here on this board for democrats during a presidential election,it's that simple. Neither yours nor anyone else's right to free speech has been compromised.

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