Can we please stop bullshitting about party unity and stopping Trump

[Rebkeh]

If unity and stopping Trump were what everybody really wanted, Bernie would already be the nominee.

Stop the lying, it's embarrassing.

[guillaumeb]

1. Not just lying is involved.

There is also illusion and a compulsion to shut off all debate about what it means to be a Democrat and what the platform should be.

[mooseprime]

6. Ding ding

Ding ding ding!!

You called that one!

[Press Virginia]

10. Yep. I just had a post hidden for saying something along these lines

Somebody got hurt feelings over my opinion of someone's supporters

Rhymes with Sillary Plinton

[guillaumeb]

12. Ridiculous, but hardly surprising. eom

[bjo59]

17. It's amazing how

the value of free speech is so easily thrown under the bus by "liberals" when shutting someone else up is in their best interest.

[Dragonfli]

52. I just got hidden because get this, I posted

You think it is "nasty" to vote against war and corruption? Then war and corruption are GOOD?

You are a very strange person, I never met anyone that admitted they prefer things like war and corruption.

You Should really join the GOP if your world view is that war and corruption are good things, they would love you in that party, might even win a seat selling both of your prized ideals there..

In a response to a poster threatening to have hidden another poster because they had a sig line that read, simply, "I will vote against war and corruption" nothing else was in the sigline.

The post I responded to:

I alerted your nasty sigline by the way.

I hope the admins delete it.

[Press Virginia]

54. its sad when liberals choose to silence opinions they don't like

or can't ignore.

[Dragonfli]

58. I think you are mistaking neo-liberals for liberals. No actual liberal would do such things. /nt

[Press Virginia]

60. Touché

[840high]

29. yep

[Jitter65]

71. Yes we can stop. If you don't want or believe in party unity, just leave those of us alone who do.

I am not trying to convince you it is best for us, don't try to convince me that it is not.

[MineralMan]

2. Nope. That will be the theme until November.

Count on it. Sorry.

[SFnomad]

3. 2156 vs. 1412 n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. But not,

3.14159 vs. 1492?

[SFnomad]

30. Denial of math, denial of facts, denial of reality n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

32. Denial be a river that feeds 11 countries.

And somehow, they have all failed to pollute it in a way to destroy their neighbors down stream. If only western society had been that . . . Honest, faithful, envorinmentally smart, and polite to those around us.

Bare, naked, asshole driven, pure capitalism is a disease. Hard to cure, but worth the effort.

[NCTraveler]

4. No. I want to stop Trump and I know Democrats are very United. Nt

[PeaceNikki]

5. I know. Only some people here really want unity and really want to stop Trump.

Others would throw everything to the wolves if they don't get their way.

We get it.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. I just got my ballot, which will not be marked for some person who thinks the Reagans

were heroes of the AIDS crisis. Reagan was a monster. Your candidate thinks he was a AIDS activist and to me that is a horrific belief. You endorse it, I do not.
This Party should be grateful to have a candidate that people who are not Reagan Democrats will vote for. I'm not a Reagan Democrat.

I'd also like to say thank God we defeated Hillary in 2008 because if she'd won we'd still have DOMA and DADT and who knows what fresh hell to deal with.
So thank God for Barack Obama, and thank God for Bernie Sanders. Fuck Ronald Reagan and his acolytes.

[Dragonfli]

57. That same candidate thought marriage equality was an effrontery against GOD, until it was legal

in most States and the polls told her "time to change the script". She changed her anti-LGBT stance to pro when? 2 or 3 years ago?

What happens when GAWD changes the polling again and with it her "script" in the future? Likely a push by her for a federal ban on marriage equality.

The script changes so often that she must keep writers on staff full time to rewrite "the script" on a near daily basis.
Reagan may have been a B actor, be she is a B actress, with no actual views or moral compass (with the possible exception of a sincere wish to continue growing her multi-million dollar fortune). She has only an "ever changing script to read from" where actual views and values should be.

[Rebkeh]

46. Obviously you don't

Stay on topic.

[JaneyVee]

7. Trump has more votes than Bernie.

[leftofcool]

8. Can we please stop pretending that Bernie has a chance?

If you don't want to unify, so be it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. Can we PLEASE stop pretending that Hillary has a chance?

Never in my 58 orbits around this flat earth has there been a more detested, more mistrusted lying cheat who claims to be a democrat (when it suits her) and who actually conspires with Wall and the MIC.

Her negatives are the highest in history for any major political candidate. Surely, that must mean something. To those who bother to use that one organ that most Hillarians have problems finding - their brains.

[bvf]

31. ^This, without a fucking doubt!

[jack_krass]

69. +1

[libdem4life]

9. Bernie beats Trump double digits.

I fail to see the issue.

[msongs]

13. lol bernie can't even beat hillary nt

[libdem4life]

23. Correction. Bernie can't beat the DLC and its annointed one.

But he can easily beat Trump. Hmmm.

What does that mean???

[ChairmanAgnostic]

25. It means the DNC rigged the game.

It means that you and I have no voice in their bizarre, Bloatway based view of politics.
It means that we are fucked, no matter who wins in November.
It means that we are going to embark on wars of profit and power, rather than rebuild our country and help those in need.
It means that Debbie Whatshername Schultz did exactly what she was hired to do - prevent any popular movement, and insure that a Wall Street whore is our nominee.

[libdem4life]

28. Spot on. n/t

[Yurovsky]

15. Because he's an actual alternative ...

HRC and Trump are 2 sides of the same corporatist coin. And while HRC may be pro-choice, and eventually came around on LGBT rights - when it was politically safe & required ZERO courage - I seriously doubt Trump - a New Yorker through and through - is some rabid evangelical anti-abortion zealot who also hates LGBT Americans. I would venture to guess he's indifferent, or willing to let the states & courts sort it out (which is pretty much how it's worked out anyway).

So we are stuck with a corporatist either way. Bernie is the ONLY choice if there is any hope of disrupting the plutocracy that HRC has gotten filthy rich ingratiating herself with. Look at the chummy pictures of HRC & The Donald... These two wouldn't piss on the average DUer if they were on fire. Rich elitist 1%ers. Screw 'em both.

This party needs to stand for economic justice or we might as well shut it down... If we're all just going to be serfs for the 1%, fuck it.

[libdem4life]

20. Well stated. n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. No kidding.

[Dragonfli]

67. We are mostly only serfs already, Sanders may be our last chance to avoid full time complete serfdom

I doubt it will take more than four years to make change for the better completely impossible. I was actually purged from the party after her campaign mysteriously found out about my information just after the much talked about "downed firewalls".

less than two days after Sanders was allowed access to his own info again, get this, funny in a corrupt and fraudish sort of way. Correspondence I received from the Clinton campaign was thanking me for my support, and could I send another $20 or more to her campaign?

First of all, I never supported, visited her site, sent her money or anything of the kind before that, and $20 was the exact amount I had sent Sanders previously. I replied back that, I had never/would never support Hillary Clinton in the primary and will continue supporting Bernie Sanders in the primary and did my best to unsubscribe from her list. I still received stuff until I wrote a letter telling them to back off and I was a Sanders supporter.

Another odd coincidence, after the Arizona election fraud event, when the word was out to check one's part affiliation, I was surprised to find that I was listed as unaffiliated with a party, after 37 fucking years as a registered Democrat! never even missed an election except in 2002, when I was in the hospital.


many strange coincidences that left me off the primary rolls for the first time since I was too young to vote in the NYS primary.

Things need to change, and the political revolution may have to coalesce around a new party to accomplish it, a labor party, a people party that cares about equality and the life of the planet and the well being off all the citizens of this country rather than the .01%. They kicked me out of the party, so they must not need or want my vote.

I am not insane, I will vote each and every slot on my local ballot after researching each candidate in my varying levels of districts and vote now what is best for the regular people, many will still be Democrats (likely all my down ticket ones because of who is running this particular year.)

Now that after thirty seven years of party loyalty has been shat upon, we are becoming serfs, and the biosphere will very soon be unable to support as many forms of life including our species, radical change is needed and the political revolution may need less salted ground than the one the DLC now controls, and such things will have to be discussed very seriously on all the Bernie political revolution sites and very soon.

I hope Sanders somehow does win the nomination against the odds and the election fraud, because if not, now that I am kicked out of the party, I will no longer vote straight ticket and Hillary is too corrupt for me to vote for in the top slot now that they discarded me and my party loyalty along with it. I will not rejoin unless it changes quite a bit towards a vision very similar to his or is led by him himself.

Lying and cheating someone comes with a price, something Hillary will now learn, because I KNOW I am not the only one this has happened to.

[Yurovsky]

85. Wow, the lengths those in power will go to to maintain it...

It's almost like a movie (take your pick - Matrix? Bourne Supremacy? Hunger Games? et al...)

I don't know what they are capable of. I'm pretty sure I know what the GOP is ...

[Rebkeh]

19. Exactly nt

[baldguy]

11. So, unity is all well & good - just as long as it's unifying behind Bernie?

But - Bernie LOST.

Talk about embarrassing...

[Rebkeh]

22. Not my point, Bernie is the better choice for two reasons

1. Polls show he would beat Trump by more
2. If Trumpophobia is the motivation to unify the party, Bernie is still a better choice

For some reason, the perception is that the exact opposite of these are true.

Hence, bullshit.

[libdem4life]

26. I can't figure out this Trumpmania either

I mean it's here on DU...the polls that Bernie beats every Republican by higher margins...ALL of them.

The same cannot be said about HRC. Amazing.

[Rebkeh]

39. The whole thing stinks

Two of the most hated people in America are the front runners to be president.

All things being fair and equal, this makes no sense. None. And nobody seems to notice that's weird? How can that be? And why?

[libdem4life]

51. That's one of the symptoms of Oligarchy.

The people have no voice against The Machine. It's why Bernie is so feared and hated.

Most people didn't even know the word Oligarchy, let alone that they lived closer to that than a Democracy.

[silvershadow]

59. I'm gonna pass out pictures of the Jimmy Carter quote as soon as I can have some

printed. Everywhere I go.

Obviously this cycle has finally exposed how little Americans know about the subject. We live in a world, sadly, were Jimmy Kimmel can't even get a man on the street to name the speaker of the house, so they damn sure don't understand what Bernie is discussing- until he does. So that is a good thing! If he doesn't win, he's spreading the message. And that is more than we've ever gotten out of any of them.

[fun n serious]

35. POLLS are NOT votes.

Hillary gets more votes. The end

[baldguy]

37. Bernie Lost. That should be enough to unify the party behind Clinton if you want to beat Trump.

BER NIE LOST!

[Rebkeh]

43. I'm not talking about winning or losing

I'm talking about multiple levels of cognitive dissonance.

[baldguy]

45. Cognitive dissonance? *B*E*R*N*I*E* *L*O*S*T*!!

Only your cognitive dissonance keeps his name in the conversation.

[Rebkeh]

47. No, this conversation is about two specific things:

1. Party unity (she's a bad choice for that)
2. Beating Trump (she's a bad choice for that)

I'm just calling these narratives out for what they are:

Bullshit.

[baldguy]

50. Bernie Lost. Clinton Won. That's your party unity. Only the whining of sore losers prevents that.

And Clinton got more votes - actual people casting actual ballots - than any other candidate in the primaries in either party.

[Rebkeh]

53. My argument is about topic A and B, you can argue about topic C all day if you like. Have fun.

My point still stands. Eom.

[baldguy]

55. Your point is that you need to whine a little more about Bernie losing.

[leftofcool]

56. Actually, you really didn't have a point.

Really, it't simple. Either get behind the nominee or don't. It's all about choices. If you prefer Trump, vote for him.

[pressbox69]

74. Thanks for stating what's obvious to open minded people

[libdem4life]

63. Did you not read up thread?

Bernie is the BEST candidate against Trump. Get your facts right before you look, um, uninformed.

[baldguy]

64. What part of "BERNIE LOST!" don't you get?

What part of "CLINTON GOT MORE *VOTES* THAN ANYONE ELSE!" don't you get?

[libdem4life]

65. Shhhh...don't shout.

Actually it could be said that a vote for HRC is a vote for Trump. Last poll I saw it was within the MOE. The polls have been pretty consistent. It's just the DNC and the PTB are hung up on Hillary.

Bernie polls consistently stronger against All Republicans.

[baldguy]

70. Then you haven't been looking at any polls in the last month.

If you don't want to vote for the liberal Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, and you want to allow her to win by a smaller margin than she could by supporting Trump, fine. Just don't pretend you're a liberal Democrat.

[libdem4life]

79. Oh my, the "liberal Democratic nominee...."

when did you get behind Bernie? I think you have either your names or adjectives a bit mixed up.

Liberal Democrat and Hillary ... perfect oxymoron

"Oxymoron is a figure of speech in which two opposite ideas are joined to create an effect. The common oxymoron phrase is a combination of an adjective proceeded by a noun with contrasting meanings..."

[pampango]

48. In the future we could just consult the polls just before our convention and pick the best candidate

for the GE that way.

That would save a lot of trouble with primaries and caucuses in the future. For now we are stuck with having allowed a few million people to participate in the nomination process.

I hope Bernie catches up with then passes Hillary in votes and delegates. If he doesn't do that I don't want the establishment to override the voters and anoint Bernie as our nominee unless we are planning on doing away with primaries in the future and just going with polls and a convention.

[BlueStateLib]

78. dukakis was 18 points ahead of bush

[bjo59]

16. Good point.

[Zynx]

18. .....What?

[fun n serious]

33. More people want Clinton. A lot more.. nt

[timlot]

34. Time will heal your wounds.

Once the primary is over and its just Hillary and Donald. Folks will come around. Its just to soon for some folks.

[Rebkeh]

44. No wounds here

Just confusion. Why, against all evidence to the contrary, do people still think she's the better one against Trump? And they want to unify by running a person America hates?

Nothing about these narratives make any sense.

[Old Codger]

61. What I wonder

Is are you going to come around when she loses .. or is it still too soon for you to admit that as a possibility? ... I know all the wonderful hillary supporters who have been so out in the open and helpful in maintaining an open discussion by banning 800+ users are all in for jumping to the other side if that becomes necessary

[Vogon_Glory]

36. Waiting for the masquerading R operatives to say PUMA in

This cynical Hillary supporter is waiting for masquerading Republican operatives pretending to be Sanders supporters to dust off tropes like PUMA in five, four, three, two...

[baldguy]

38. +1000. BoBs are no better than Republicans.

[Vogon_Glory]

42. You want to have some fun?

Call them fan-boys or fan-girls. They HATE that!

[Adrahil]

40. We can have unity.

As long as we do it your way, right?

What a load of shit.

[Demsrule86]

41. Bernie didn't win the primary

So despite your polls showing him beating Trump...I can show you the same polls with Hillary beating Trump...sorry you have to win the primary to be the nominee. He didn't. However, folks there is a good reason for him to stay in through California...heard it on Make it Plain with Mark Thompson. California has an odd system for all office other than president...Everyone gets on the ballot: greens, Dems, libertarians, GOP ...and the top two run against one another...it could be two GOP types or Dems or anyone...so if we don't have a primary in California...the GOP will come out as it is make or break for Trump...we could have two GOP types running for the US senate if Dems stay home...so stay Bernie. Just try not to run down our nominee or party.

[Rebkeh]

49. I'm not debating that, the primary is not over anyway

But why do the narratives, which are clearly false, about her being the uniter work?

If people want to beat Trump and unite the party - Bernie should be the odds on favorite.

He isn't, I'm asking why. I suggest it's because those two things are not what people actually want. OR ... maybe they are asleep at the wheel, on auto-pilot nodding along with prime time cable news?

[Demsrule86]

77. I can't speak for other voters

However, I do believe that many believe that he would lose badly in the general...that the GOP is just panting to have him as the nominee and swiftboat him over being a sociaist...his private life ...who knows? Also, after having seen some extreme Bernie supporters suggest that a vote for Trump is their preferred option. I don't believe some of them are liberal or progressive...no thinking person would suggest that.

[Rebkeh]

80. Their fears are unfounded and their reasoning missing some key elements

I'll have to explain later.

As for Bernie to Trump voters, they are more exception than rule. They are common enough where I live but I wouldn't assume it's widespread. But it's probably enough to tip the scale a bit. Further, from where they are at, it actually makes sense for them to choose Trump - it's about dismantling the establishment. They don't care who does it, as long as it's done. If that's your primary issue, Trump makes a lot more sense than Hillary.

Not that I agree, but it's rational from their perspective. Trump wouldn't rely on the aristocracy because he doesn't need them while Hillary doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the problem. Trump's arrogant defiance is more reliable than Hillary's promises.

It's wrong. Flatly wrong but desperate people do desperate things. The only way to stop them is to reduce their desperation - get to why they have this position in the first place.

Hillary ain't it. She is the last person on earth they will vote for. And it's not misogyny in my view, they truly Do. Not. Care who does it, they want it done. Also worth noting is that they like Elizabeth Warren, a lot.

[Demsrule86]

81. Well two things will happen

Hillary will win and things will get better, or Trump wins...the GOP gets the courts and three branches of government...the establishment will be affirmed both by the GOP and the courts. And then they will understand what it is to be screwed. Hillary won the primary. We will have to manage without them. I certainly would not be blackmailed into giving the nomination to a guy who can not win the primary. Despite their animosity, I still believe we can win the general.

[Squinch]

62. Meh. Most Sanders supporters are reasonable and sincere people who will vote for Hillary.

The Bernie or Bust people are just a fringe of very special snowflakes who care only for themselves.

Party unity isn't really going to be a problem.

[Starry Messenger]

66. wtf are you babbling about?

This crap only infests DU.

I was at a Trump protest today, saw dozens of Bernie supporters and literally NONE of them utter stupid shit like I hear here.

[stevenleser]

68. Wrong. General election polls this far out are meaningless, so no...

... This far out Carter was still miles ahead of Reagan and George H W Bush was beating Bill Clinton in a landslide. Bernie has a ton of issues that most General Election voters haven't heard about and to which the Rove machine would be happy to introduce them.

Stop with the BS that Sanders would be stronger against Trump.

[B Calm]

72. If Hillary ends up winning the nomination, she needs Bernie supporters or

Trump will win. She needs to start adopting some of Bernie's platform to win their support. Bernie stance on the War on Drugs, etc.

[Rebkeh]

73. Problem is she already burned that bridge for a lot of people

Dirty tricks repel potential supporters. They really didn't think this through.

Me? It's a trust issue, I don't believe a word she says and deeply question her sincerity. She's even admitted to pandering, like it's cute.

It just might be too late to win many of us over. If it comes to that, I hope I'm wrong, I really do but that's what they created. It's on them, so .. What will be, will be.

[randome]

75. Translation: can we please stop caring?

Can we please admit I was right all along?
Can we please have a do-ever?
Can we please indict the leading candidate?
Can we please agree that "Break up the banks!" is a worthy soundbite?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[GoneFishin]

76. Their chance to stop Trump flew out the window when they put the fix in for H. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

82. lol. no. he is losing because Democrats prefer Clinton.

[muriel_volestrangler]

83. Who'd have guessed 6 months ago it'd be Bernie supporters saying 'ignore the primary results ...

... we shouldn't elect someone who is the choice of the base, we should go for the candidate with the best chance of winning the general election!"

It's comical.

LOL.

[The Second Stone]

84. Yes, stop the lying, it is embarassing

Us Clinton supporters wanted to go through the democratic process and support the candidate who got the most votes in our primary system. We did that in 2008, and when Obama won, we got behind him and supported him and went on to victory. This time Clinton won. And importantly, Sanders lost. Now, you don't want to get behind the nominee, that is your business. But Sanders is not the nominee and won't be. Now or ever. Because he came in second in the primary. The losers of the Final Four do not go on the the NCAA championship match. It's unhinged whackadoodle land that you think we should do that in democratic politics. This November will be a match-up of Clinton against Trump.

Clinton supporters are already moving on to that. If you want to continue to pretend about Sanders being the nominee, we can't stop you from your reality break. But it is a break from reality, the same as if you think you are the reincarnation of Napoleon. If you don't think stopping Trump is important, and don't want to be convinced of that, we can't convince you.

Sanders is not the nominee and won't be. If that is that hard for you to comprehend, perhaps your doctor can help.