Stop acting like progressives would bear the blame for a Clinton loss.

[vintx]

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Most of the posters here are not shy about explaining how she doesn't need our votes, how most of Bernie's supporters will vote for her, and how it's really undecided and swing voters who will decide the outcome.

Someone posted a poll showing she's expected to wipe the floor with trump. Well good. Then stop being assholes to we who will not hold our noses on this one.

You have no right to our votes and neither does she. And most of you are convinced you don't need us anyway.

Go beg and bully the undecideds and swing voters and leave us alone re: our vote in November.

[sufrommich]

1. You're on a discussion forum where people discuss shit

and sometimes don't believe the same shit you do. If you want to be left alone,coming to a political discussion forum seems like an odd choice.

[vintx]

4. Left alone ABOUT MY VOTE IN NOVEMBER

I said it in all caps so that maybe you'd notice it that time

Did it help?

Yes I'm Bernie or Bust and I don't want the clueless here puking at me over it. I'm in Texas. My vote is EXTRA not needed.

[puffy socks]

49. 'I'm in Texas. My vote is EXTRA not needed."

The very attitude that keeps Texas red.

[vintx]

51. Oh bullshit. It's all the voters.

I vote, but I'm outnumbered.

If you're blaming non voters for not turning the tide take it up with them.

[1StrongBlackMan]

81. Amazing, isn't it ...

Rejects that with work and votes, Texas can go blue AND convinced that Bernie has a path to the Democratic nomination.

[Chan790]

97. So do unsupportable nominees.

You can't expect to gain ground (literally) and add states to the Democratic party's Electoral College bulwark if you give us shitty nominees that aren't going to excite anybody to want to vote for them.

Hillary's about as appealing as a Wonder Bread, Miracle Whip, and Velveeta sandwich left sitting on the counter in a Texas July for 4 hours.

[Katashi_itto]

13. Shes inevitable remember?

That goes for all DNC DWS backed candidates.

[Chan790]

98. You know what else is inevitable?

Brain death. That doesn't mean we should be all that enthusiastic about it.

[Katashi_itto]

102. Exactly. They cheer clinton on like she actually has done

Something positive other than enrich herself at pour expense

[redstateblues]

2. Is Nader running again?

[vintx]

5. What does that even have to do with my post?

So many things posted here by her supporters explain so much about their support.

[redstateblues]

30. Reminiscent of the "not a dimes worth of difference" attitude

[SFnomad]

3. Another childish "I'm going to take my ball and go home" thread

How can we miss you if you won't go away?

[sufrommich]

8. I tell myself I'm going to start ignoring the

tantrums,but keep getting sucked in.

[vintx]

9. Where's the tantrum?

What are you reading?

There's one subject which your side seems to have a great amount of cognitive dissonance on.

You don't need us, so why continue to bully us over it? Sport?

[sufrommich]

11. You aren't being "bullied", that's such a dishonest

term to throw around. No one can force you to vote for Hillary,that's just utter silly hyperbole.

[vintx]

14. No, y'all can't force any of us.

But if you think posters aren't using bullying tactics then we are simply reading different posts.

[leftofcool]

25. How many times do we have to say it?

I don't care how you vote! Can it get any more plain that that?

[redstateblues]

31. It's the same old tactic of setting up the straw man

so that BSS can continue to be victims.

[vintx]

60. Another person assuming the OP is about them.

There are other people posting here and a lot of them have a lot to say about who Bernie's supporters will be voting for.

[Tanuki]

66. It's a discussion board, as another poster pointed out, so of course everyone has "a lot to say."

DU is about electing Democrats, so why act like a victim if people are strongly advocating the election of the Democratic nominee (whoever it may be) in November? Nobody can "force" you to vote for anyone, so please stop acting like you are being bullied and coerced when people point out how stupid and antisocial it would be to fail to support the Democratic nominee when so much is at stake for our country and future generations who would have to live with the fallout of Cruz- or Trump-appointed Supreme Court appointees. I would say the same thing if Hillary were lagging as badly as Bernie currently is in the polls and her supporters were pouting and threatening to write in her name, vote for a spoiler, or sit out the election, thereby raising the risk of a Republican victory. I don't assume the OP is about me, btw, but I am responding any way. This is, after all, a forum, and all are free to reply to all posts unless it is a protected group.

[Chan790]

99. I'm glad to hear it.

Now if you'd get your fellow quislings Clinton supporters to follow suit, that would be awesome.

[Ferd Berfel]

89. Another arrogant "you must obey Corporatocracy" post

and drop your principles it's her turn

[djean111]

6. Well, it is not like a Hillary supporter can go into the booth with us, right?

The only real way they can get your vote is to fill out your ballot, whether in the booth, or mailed in.

I am not abandoning my principles just because of nasties on the internet.

And - being blamed for anything, by folks who are okay with bloody war and the TPP and means-testing Social Security and fracking, and other nasty shit - both meaningless - who cares? - and sort of an honor.

I'm sure the Third Way is all intent on how the votes are counted anyway.

[vintx]

10. Good point.

That melodramatic OP about how well be living in tents foraging for berries if trump is elected, and how it's all our fault.... It just made me want to make a plea for reason.

I should have realized it was a futile effort.

[pressbox69]

7. when you stop going

and get gone.

[djean111]

15. Newbie telling another DUer to "get gone"?

How quaint.

[pressbox69]

32. You're right

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Why should a newbie point out phoney baloney dramatics. Carry on with the performance.

[BernieforPres2016]

37. "Your right" comes to DU

Looks like Hillary is digging into the bottom of the barrel. I saw another one earlier today who wrote about Bernie "loosing".

[vintx]

61. There has always been a sudden influx of this kind of crap here

around election time. It's fairly routine.

[Tanuki]

69. Speaking of a "sudden influx of this kind of crap...around election time", you've only been here

since March 2, 2016 according to your profile. Perhaps there is more to your story?

[vintx]

82. Yeah, there is.

I was registered under another name from 2004-2014.

[djean111]

38. DU is not about personal attacks. We have enough to argue about.

Begone, via that lovely Full Ignore feature. Not worth reading.

See the difference? You, too, can use full ignore instead of personal attacks.

You don't get to police DU.

[Bobbie Jo]

62. Slight correction

Newbie telling another newbie to "get gone."

[pressbox69]

68. Good catch

Sorry if I offended. I didn't know that some types are so fragile.

[Bobbie Jo]

71. No offense here.

Welcome to DU.

[Rebkeh]

12. No, I think some of the dirtier players

are trying to create some kind of equivalence between Bernie and Trump.

It will fail miserably, it's quite a stretch.

[redstateblues]

33. The BSS bullshit tactic is attempting to create equivalence between Hillary and Cruz

Every day-over and over.

[Rebkeh]

46. Wow

Lol

I see what you did there.

Nope.

[Chan790]

100. That would be silly.

Hillary is more of a Baroness Margaret Thatcher.

[Skinner]

16. Let's be clear: The vast majority of progressives are going to vote for Hillary.

So no, progressives won't be responsible if she loses.

What we are talking about here are not "progressives" genernally but rather a very tiny subset of people who for whatever reason choose not to vote for Hillary Clinton.

But here's what I don't get.

If you don't want her to win the general election, and you choose not to vote for her because you don't want her to win the general election, then wouldn't you in fact be getting the outcome you wanted? Why not own it?

Put another way -- if someone told me in 2012 that I was to blame for Mitt Romney's loss to Barack Obama, my response would be "You're damn right it was my fault -- I didn't vote for him!"

[vintx]

20. I have never voted anything but straight ticket dem,

but I've often been conflicted because I do live in TX and I would like for the Greens to break the 5% barrier so that the country gets exposed to more progressive ideals.

I guess you missed the post where I said I live in TX, but that being the case, my vote isn't going to jeopardize our chances.

It isn't that I want Trump to win, it's that I want lefty ideas to have a bigger platform.

[Skinner]

27. So what you're saying is that you want Hillary Clinton to win but you're not voting for her.

If someone in Florida or Missouri or Virginia or some other swing state does that, can we blame them?

[riderinthestorm]

42. I read the post as s/he wants Greens to get 5% of the votes to get on future ballots

Hillary has very little chance of taking TX in their opinion.

Having Green Party candidates on the ballot allows more diverse progressive prospects.

[Skinner]

44. That doesn't answer my question.

FWIW, I read the post the same way you did.

[riderinthestorm]

45. Ah ok.

I guess I thought this was your question

If you don't want her to win the general election, and you choose not to vote for her because you don't want her to win the general election, then wouldn't you in fact be getting the outcome you wanted? Why not own it? 

And I interpreted their answer as a vote for Hillary in TX doesn't really matter, she won't win there while a vote for Jill Stein expands the progressive ballot prospects in TX if they can get to 5%.

But in all honesty, I'm not that poster and probably should have just let them answer instead of jumping in.

[vintx]

48. Possibly, but we won't know that till November.

Maybe scotus will step in again and decide for us.

But my point is, with all the polling being bandied about and the awareness that its independents and swing voters who have more influence, then why the focus on we tiny few who simply chose this election to not hold our nose for whatever reason?

[Skinner]

64. Because if you want Hillary Clinton to win and you don't vote for her...

...you fail.

[JonLeibowitz]

78. Again you assume a vote in Hawaii has the same effect as a vote in Ohio. That is not the case.

If you care about the Greens getting to 5% then the calculation in Hawaii or California is different than a swing state.

(Not that I'm advocating not voting for the nominee, just explaining what a reasonable non-DU-brainwashed voter might think)

[vintx]

84. What do you think the chances are of Hillary taking Texas?

Seriously...

[Skinner]

91. Very low but not impossible this year. But I'm still curious:

If someone in Florida or Missouri or Virginia or some other swing state wants Hillary to win but declines to vote for her, do they share some of the responsibility if she doesn't win the state?

[vintx]

93. Clearly they would. Swing states are battleground states - that's where the fight is.

Those are the places where I've always argued we can't afford to be too progressive because of the electorate - if the majority of democratic and independent voters won't back a more progressive Dem then that's just how it is - we get a moderate or even a centrist.

But the party has to stop openly sabotaging progressives. No one can seriously say the party has not intentionally hamstrung progressive primary challengers in areas where they would have been competitive. I've been telling people for years that we should all just suck it up and try to change the party from the inside, but I can't do it any longer and that's a very distressing thought. I doubt I'll even bother going to the state convention this year, though I was looking forward to it at one time.

The DNC has not been even-handed in this primary and anyone who thinks that's a recipe for increasing the numbers of the rank and file is simply fooling themselves.

[Punkingal]

34. Thank you.

I appreciate the acknowledgement that no progressive will vote for Trump. And many who now don't want to vote for her will probably do so when they actually get in the voting booth and see the names "Clinton" and "Trump" and the choice is absolutely REAL for the first time. That is what I came to realize for myself. I certainly don't want to "own" a Trump presidency. I prefer Bernie, but I will vote for the Democrat, as I always have.

Now, can you post a thread telling posters to stop calling life-long democrats here Republicans, and telling us to leave? I see daily posts about how Bernie supporters should just leave and I am tired of it.

[Califonz]

17. I'm glad Hillary doesn't need my vote

because she ain't getting it!

[leftofcool]

23. So?

[redstateblues]

36. Another lo poster for Bernie. I doubt you were voting Democratic anyway

so it doesn't matter.

[Autumn]

18. Here's what you do, stop talking about how you will or won't vote. Yout vote is your business,

your private business. Don't respond and let them talk to each other and the wind.

[vintx]

22. Like I said it was that one OP about tents and berries.

I shouldnt have bothered posting this obviously

[Autumn]

35. I don't know what post you are talking about

[riderinthestorm]

50. Its this lovely piece of work

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511869266

[Autumn]

55. Oh for fucks sake.That's almost as bad as it's my duty to vote for Hillary

They are scraping the shit off bottom of the barrel.

[flobee1]

26. So why the posts about mud huts

And foraging for food and children dyig.

[Stuckinthebush]

19. Honestly, it is sound and fury

Representing sadness. No true progressive or Dem will withhold a vote in the GE or, worse, vote for Trump. It's just not going to happen at any significant level to make a difference.

It's normal for this animosity to happen at the end of a primary. It happens all the time. In the end the real libs/Dems/progressives support the Dem nominee.

[leftofcool]

21. You are assuming that I care about who you vote for.

[vintx]

24. No, you are assuming the OP is about you

[leftofcool]

28. No I am not. It was all about you and pity you.

If you don't want to vote for Hillary then don't. The majority of progressives will indeed vote for her, so will indies, and swing voters who lean left. So will AAs, Latinos, Asians, NAs and women.

[Renew Deal]

29. You already feel guilty about it

That's what this pre-emotive rationalization is about. Every single one of you "bust" types will be to blame just as every single Nader voter is to blame for the situation we are in today.

[redstateblues]

39. It's the 2016 version of "not a dimes worth of difference"

same shit-different year. Hey all you Naderites-Thanks for Bush/Cheney

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Because facts are ugly things

Gore won the election. The Scalia 5 appointed Bush.

Also, more than twice as many Dems voted for Bush, as voted for Nader in Florida.

But you keep telling yourself that.

[redstateblues]

53. Nader Denialism Lives!! Spoken like a true Nader voter.

There were other factors in play but the truth is that if voters in FL hadn't voted for Ralph "not a dimes worth of difference" Nader we wouldn't have had Bush Cheney. It amazes me that you Naderites still feel the need to justify a mistake.

[riderinthestorm]

67. It's a myth that Nader cost Gore the election. That's been thoroughly debunked.

http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

I happily voted for Gore but I fully understand he ran a bad campaign and has no one else to blame but himself. He even lost his home state TN.

[redstateblues]

77. Debunked? All that is Naderites continuing to deny that they played a part

in electing Bush/Cheney. "Not a dimes worth of difference"? There were a lot of moving parts in that election but to deny that Nader voters in FL played a part in electing Bush/Cheney is disingenuous. It's just true.

[riderinthestorm]

80. You didn't bother to read the links I see

Or you're bad at math.

Anyway, carry on. Everyone else can see it and that's good enough for me.

[Kelvin Mace]

73. Except that I voted for Gore

so you are wrong again.

[vintx]

83. They have to keep telling themselves that

Or else they might have to stop demonizing the left.

[Kelvin Mace]

40. Projection

They know their candidate sucks. They know supporting her is wrong. But, they won't admit it to themselves, so they need a scapegoat.

[stevenleser]

43. Sure. As soon as you stop claiming you will pull a 2016 version of PUMAs. You cant have it both

ways.

If you threaten that you will withhold your vote from Clinton, and then turnout suggests she lost because of folks like you not voting for her, we're going to blame folks like you. I don't care what your reasons are.

If you don't want to be blamed, don't withhold your vote, and don't threaten to withhold your vote. You don't get to have it both ways.

[flobee1]

47. . I don't care what your reasons are.

There it is

[stevenleser]

52. Yup, and I stand by it. nt

[flobee1]

54. I dont doubt tbat

Nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

56. Actually, I can.

I don't live in a swing state...

A loss in November will be mostly on the short-sighted fools who nominated a venal, pandering, dishonest, incompetent candidate...not people like me who see her for what she is.

[stevenleser]

57. Nope, you can't and it has nothing to do with what state you live in. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

58. Nonsense.

I'm not voting for Princess Weathervane, period. It will have zero effect on the result because my state isn't remotely in play.

[riderinthestorm]

72. Dem party membership is dropping. Its now at 29% of the electorate

If Hillary can't motivate enough people to vote for her, that's on her, nobody else.

The Democratic party has selected a poor candidate. That's on them and it won't be progressives fault if Hillary can't earn their trust or their vote.

Also if the party doesn't get smarter and begin allowing a deeper bench to get out there they're going to lose even more members. The DNC under DWS has suffered staggeringly high losses in Governerships, Congress etc.

None of this is progressives fault.

[GoneFishin]

79. I know it. They put all of their resources into a seriously damaged candidate then blame everyone

but themselves.

If she can't get the votes, and the Democrats lose, then maybe they should reconsider the road they followed to get into that precarious spot.

They never will though. Because for them it is not really about Dem vs. Republican. It is about the 1% vs. average Americans. And in that regard Trump and Hillary on the same side.

[rhett o rick]

59. They know they will have a hard time and need to demand the Left toe the line.

They don't know the Left. The Conservative Wing of our party is making the same mistake they made in 2000 and now need a scapegoat. Ralph where are you?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. The Love it or Leave it, Loyalty Oath, wing of the party demands obedience and silence.

[vintx]

85. I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party

and they should be less short-sighted.

[MisterP]

65. they lost 11 Governors, 13 Senators, 69 Reps, 913 state seats *by* blaming the voters

this in fact gives them no reason to stop their losing streak, because to them it's never them, it's us

they say that "the purists" are the ones that say the left will swing back when America's had enough of the right, when in fact that's their only strategy

[vintx]

86. Precisely. nt

[MisterP]

90. and they always "telegraph" what they're gonna do whenever they blame the left--

2000 "third parties lost the election!" and then they back Lieberman, rely on voter caging, and do that "Red to Blue" crap
2004 "vote in the primaries!" and then they undercut that
2006 "the liberals are about to purge the party!" and then they purge the libs
2008 "the liberals are gonna take over the party mechanisms!" and then the make the veal pen
2010 "the liberals are gonna cost us Congress" and then they flop bigtime
etc

[vintx]

92. I wish I had kept a list of all the times when the party sabotaged a progressive primary candidate

and our establishment-backed candidate then ended up losing the seat to a republican anyway.

I remember discussing those contests while I was still on the 'no we can change the party, really!' side, and being left with nothing to say.

[MisterP]

94. my list is

Cegelis, Lamont, McKinney, Halter, Romanoff, Sestak, Grayson, Kucinich, John Russell, Buono, Lutrin, Rev. Manuel Sykes, Weiland, Wendy Davis

the punters they ran are Lincoln, Coakley, Mahoney, Alex Sink, Mary Burke, and (arguably) Grimes

[procon]

70. Stop with the whining.

If you're going to pout, go home and do it in private. All these repetitive, overwrought, emotional melodramas are nothing but attention seeking vanity posts.

Bernie lost. He lost because he didn't get enough votes. He lost because a majority of voters in more states rejected his message. He lost because his campaign wasn't nimble enough to mitigate the loss of voter interest. He lost because voters saw him as a single issue politician whose views didn't necessarily coincide with their top concerns. He lost because his public persona became a negative issue that turned off voters. He lost. Get over it.

You have one job: Vote. Get it right and the Democrats hold the White House, and possibly the Senate, and there's a better chance of legislating those progressive policies you want. Do it the wrong way and you'll usher in Trump and we'll lose everything. Your choice...

[Ferd Berfel]

74. She will NEver get the Independants

regardless of how badly they portray Drumph up to November. She will energize the RW base to come out to vote against her.

Then there is the potential indictment and the Wall Street Speeches..........

and the part where she needs to EARN votes, they aren't OWED to her except by the people she's paid for.

Bernie's fault? Bernie's Supporters' Fault?

Bark At The Moon!

[vintx]

87. It's surreal ... 'There's hardly any of you!

But if she loses ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!! 111!1!ELEVENS!'

[flobee1]

75. and there's a better chance of legislating those progressive policies you want.

No there isnt
Payoffs are payoffs, and eventually those bills come due.

All that statement is is a carrot on a stick.

[oldandhappy]

76. True Independents in Ohio and Florida will decide the election.

Best to spend efforts on sane repubs in those two states to vote for clinton.

[SidDithers]

88. Similarly, they'll carry no weight after a Clinton victory, if they don't participate...nt

Sid

[Demsrule86]

95. Progressives would not be to blame

As progressives would vote for Secretary Clinton. Nope. those who claim to be progressive and did not vote would be to blame...they are not progressive...but addicted to a candidate.

[Democratic Divo]

96. What Clinton loss?

You seem to be so convinced she's going to lose without that 1% of Bernie voters that will stay home.

[KPN]

101. Yeah!

[pampango]

103. If anyone loses to Trump, it will not be the fault of progressives but the 'credit' of racists and

xenophobes in the republican party and elsewhere. There are plenty of them in the republican party as their primary is proving. Fewer outside of their base. Since Cruz is no better, indeed is much worse than Trump, the racist and xenophobic base of the GOP is clear for all to see.

Liberals in purple states (like my Ohio) have a harder to decision to make than those in solidly blue or red states but that is often the case. It is both exciting and a pain. I'm sure many republicans here were not happy about Romney in 2012 but voted for him anyway because Ohio is usually a toss-up state. Liberals have the same decision here from the other direction.