HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Washington Post opinion: ...

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:01 AM

 

Washington Post opinion: Sanders is selling a fantasy agenda

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has attracted a passionate following because he is selling his followers a fantasy. And not just any fantasy — but one of epic proportions. A group of respected, nonpartisan experts offered the public a sense of the scale on Monday, releasing the most thorough analysis * yet on Sanders’s plan and finding that it is profoundly flawed.
* http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-senator-bernie-sanderss-tax-and-transfer-proposals

The analysts found that Sanders’s program is very progressive, jacking up taxes massively on the rich and providing a range of new benefits to the poor. Though every working person would face higher payroll taxes, the value of these benefits would leave 95 percent of households better off.

But there is a massive catch. Sanders’s assurance that he has “a plan to pay for every spending program he has introduced to date” is wrong. And not just wrong, but extravagantly so. Even with his large tax increases, Sanders would fall $18 trillion short over just 10 years. Factoring in interest costs, his plan would add $21 trillion to the debt over a decade. That is more than the roughly $19 trillion the Treasury already owes. And the picture would probably get much worse as time went on.

Sanders’s health-care plan is the big budget-buster. It alone would cost $32 trillion over 10 years — “more than twice the new revenues” that Sanders would raise, Len Burman, the director of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, said on Monday. When reporters have asked Sanders about the costs of his health-care plan in the past, the senator has typically responded that other countries maintain functioning single-payer systems — as though he has not proposed a specific plan that should be assessed on its own merits. Burman pointed out Monday that other countries do not promise their people as much as Sanders does.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/05/09/confirmed-sanders-is-selling-a-fantasy-agenda/

86 replies, 3241 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 86 replies Author Time Post
Reply Washington Post opinion: Sanders is selling a fantasy agenda (Original post)
Albertoo May 2016 OP
CrowCityDem May 2016 #1
Albertoo May 2016 #2
Baobab May 2016 #40
Albertoo May 2016 #52
Baobab May 2016 #69
brewens May 2016 #80
CoffeeCat May 2016 #3
RiverLover May 2016 #51
LexVegas May 2016 #4
cali May 2016 #11
LexVegas May 2016 #12
JPnoodleman May 2016 #24
apnu May 2016 #20
Baobab May 2016 #70
Iliyah May 2016 #14
liberal from boston May 2016 #18
uponit7771 May 2016 #26
Orsino May 2016 #5
cali May 2016 #6
TwilightZone May 2016 #7
cali May 2016 #9
TwilightZone May 2016 #10
Wellstone ruled May 2016 #15
liberal from boston May 2016 #19
liberal from boston May 2016 #21
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #46
Albertoo May 2016 #8
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #48
Albertoo May 2016 #56
ThePhilosopher04 May 2016 #13
scscholar May 2016 #16
Vinca May 2016 #17
Albertoo May 2016 #22
Vinca May 2016 #44
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #49
Albertoo May 2016 #53
Vinca May 2016 #84
jack_krass May 2016 #23
Albertoo May 2016 #25
jack_krass May 2016 #45
Albertoo May 2016 #54
jack_krass May 2016 #63
still_one May 2016 #27
redstateblues May 2016 #28
still_one May 2016 #35
pat_k May 2016 #42
silvershadow May 2016 #29
pat_k May 2016 #30
Albertoo May 2016 #31
pat_k May 2016 #32
pat_k May 2016 #33
Albertoo May 2016 #34
litlbilly May 2016 #41
Albertoo May 2016 #50
Nyan May 2016 #36
ucrdem May 2016 #37
amborin May 2016 #38
dchill May 2016 #79
Live and Learn May 2016 #39
pat_k May 2016 #43
B Calm May 2016 #47
Albertoo May 2016 #55
B Calm May 2016 #57
QC May 2016 #60
B Calm May 2016 #62
QC May 2016 #68
B Calm May 2016 #73
QC May 2016 #75
B Calm May 2016 #76
TheSarcastinator May 2016 #78
B Calm May 2016 #86
Albertoo May 2016 #85
EndElectoral May 2016 #58
One of the 99 May 2016 #59
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #61
Surya Gayatri May 2016 #64
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #65
djean111 May 2016 #66
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #72
djean111 May 2016 #74
ladjf May 2016 #71
HooptieWagon May 2016 #67
dchill May 2016 #77
Hiraeth May 2016 #81
AgingAmerican May 2016 #82
Armstead May 2016 #83

Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:04 AM

1. Plans don't need to make sense when you know you won't win.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:05 AM

2. 'Zactly

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #2)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:09 AM

40. This is total BS.. Study after study shows SINGLE payer would save a huge amount of money

Note- Hillary Clinton's hands are tied by her commitments to rigid 1990s trade policy. her proposal is not change, 'public option' is a scam made up by insurance companies, that would be wildly expensive..)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Baobab (Reply #40)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:54 AM

52. Partly true

 

There are systems more efficient than single payer (Singapore comes to mind)
But I grant you the existing US system is very inefficient.

All this doesn't change the fact Bernie is making outlandish promises.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #52)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:03 AM

69. No, he's making the only promises that will work, also Clinton is locking in bad policy

People have not been able to afford insurance system since 1992. She's killing maybe 100,000 a year unnecessarily. Government already pays 2/3 of healthcare, insurance companies dump sick by hitting them with huge bills they cant pay. Then when people's assets are gone and they are destitute the government pays. But only if they have no income. See the problem there? The government is forcing poorer people out of the job market 'voluntarily' (or they die).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Baobab (Reply #40)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:44 AM

80. We're already spending $3.2 trillion per year on health care. We see this crap that rates Bernie's

plan as if he's proposing an additional 3.2 trillion per year. So if Bernie's plan is $32 trillion over ten years and we end up with single payer, I say bring it on!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:06 AM

3. Another baloney hit piece from the Washington Post

I don't even click on their articles any more. The Washington Post has devolved into the National Enquirer of politics.

From Capehart's foolish hit piece on The Bernie college photo--that turned out to be a sick lie--to the lies told about Betnie's Vatican trip--The once-mighty Washington Post has become a talking-point factory for the Clinton camp.

I stick with Bloomberg, Reuters or AP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:54 AM

51. Within 7 hrs, Jeff Bezos' WaPo Squeezes Out 4 Anti-Sanders Stories From 1 Tax Study

A tax study done by a Clinton Think Tank, too. Its really challenging to know solid sources these days.

by Adam Johnson
Washington Post Squeezes Four Anti-Sanders Stories Out of One Tax Study Over Seven Hours
5/11/16


A study released by the Urban Institute this week, writes Johnson, "was irresistible for editors looking for viral outrage: huge, scary national debt numbers by a tax-and-spend liberal (entirely without any context), complete with innuendo that the campaign had been lying about its projections." (Image: Screenshots compiled by FAIR)


Surely one study can’t be this important?

It’s not news that the Washington Post’s editorial board has been lobbying against Sen. Bernie Sanders since the beginning of his improbable presidential campaign. Sometimes this editorial ethos seems to extend to other parts of the paper, as it did in March, when the Post managed to run 16 negative stories about Sanders in 16 hours (FAIR.org, 3/8/16).

While the Post has published the occasional pro-Sanders piece, the Jeff Bezos–owned publication was back at it yesterday when it pounced on a tax study by the Urban Institute, running four pieces (two by Post writers, one by the editorial board and one by the AP) in one afternoon:

>1:00pm Sorry, Bernie Fans. His Healthcare Plan Is Short $17,000,000,000,000, by Max Ehrenfreund

>1:49 Confirmed: Sanders Is Selling a Fantasy Agenda, by Stephen Stromberg

>5:15pm Study: Sanders’ Economic Plan Piles $18T on Federal Debt, by AP’s Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar

>7:59pm Sanders’ Plans Aren’t Just Too Good to Be True; They’re Also Fiscally Dangerous, by the Post’s editorial board

The study was irresistible for editors looking for viral outrage: huge, scary national debt numbers by a tax-and-spend liberal (entirely without any context), complete with innuendo that the campaign had been lying about its projections.

................Snip....................

....Depending on the target audience, the ideology of the study’s publisher, the Urban Institute, also changed.

To the Post, it’s “nonpartisan,” while the nominally hipper Vox (“Study: Bernie Sanders’ Single-Payer Plan Is Twice as Expensive as He Says,” 5/9/16) described them as being “left-leaning”—though to depict an organization funded by the likes of Bill Gates, Pete Peterson and JPMorgan Chase as leaning “left” is to render the description meaningless.

Traditionally, the Urban Institute has been considered “liberal,” but this has always been a loaded notion, that pro-Democrat equated to progressive.

The Urban Institute’s president, Sarah Rosen Wartell, worked in the Bill Clinton White House and co-founded the Center for American Progress in 2003 with Bill Clinton’s chief of staff and Hillary Clinton’s current campaign chair, John Podesta. The State Department, while under Clinton’s charge, donated millions to the Institute (as it did before and after her tenure).

Considering Sanders is expressly running against the “Democratic establishment,” it’s no surprise that a scion of this establishment like the Urban Institute would oppose Sanders.............

..................Snip..............

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/11/washington-post-squeezes-four-anti-sanders-stories-out-one-tax-study-over-seven

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:06 AM

4. Minorities have seen through his bullshit since the beginning. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LexVegas (Reply #4)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:14 AM

11. What utter shit. Bernie has the best record on minority rights by leaps and bounds

 

That is fact. That super predatory hilly and her awesome machine managed to smear him was brilliant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #11)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:16 AM

12. Oh yeah...we have Stockholm Syndrome. Or we're low information. I forget.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LexVegas (Reply #12)

Wed May 11, 2016, 10:58 PM

24. Well it is odd.....

That the Clinton Family which has so imprisoned and impoverished the black community and hispanic community (In their case both here and abroad) and has a literal Anglo-Saxon name, AND Hillary who was a Goldwater girl while Bernie was getting arrested for fighting for civil rights is somehow painted as this glorious PoC, but Sanders who actually has fought since the beginning is somehow not.

It tells me that identity politics is purely skin deep, and lacks substance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #11)

Wed May 11, 2016, 12:56 PM

20. What?

Not denying that Hillary and Bernie haven't been smearing each other, they have, but Hillary has been beating Bernie with women and minorities from Iowa forward. Long before smears came in. I don't think the smears are changing many minds. Hillary's always had strong support with women and minorities and that hasn't changed.

Sanders civil rights history doesn't seem to be considered by anyone but people around here, despite the fact that a few Civil Rights leaders did stand up and say they didn't remember Bernie back then and were proved wrong really fast and very publicly.

Moving beyond Bernie's protest days, which are long behind him, what votes has Bernie had that differed from Clinton on civil rights or gender equality? How about LGBTQ issues?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #11)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:08 AM

70. But Clinton wants to give all our service jobs to Africa and Asian firms. Here! How generous.

They will do them for one quarter what Americans can work for and live in dormitories like in the Middle East. That's her solution for everything, giving away our jobs to people who wil be enslaved in a system that gves them no opportunity to job shop and replaces American workers in their own workplaces. Often they must train their own replacements. They have been planning this for 20 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LexVegas (Reply #4)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:33 AM

14. Yep!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LexVegas (Reply #4)

Wed May 11, 2016, 12:43 PM

18. Go Bernie


Suggest you watch a young African female voter talk about Hillary: Love this video of a young AA female supporter taking on a Clinton Strategist.

http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-sanders-supporter-slams-cnn/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LexVegas (Reply #4)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:04 PM

26. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:07 AM

6. Oh what crap

 

Bernie is simply trying to focus democrats on a progressive agenda. He's been clear that a lot would have to happen in order to enact his proposals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #6)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:09 AM

7. So, vote for him even though not even he is sure his plans are realistic?

That's an interesting concept.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightZone (Reply #7)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:12 AM

9. That isn't what I said, dear.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #9)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:13 AM

10. It's exactly what you said, honey.

I have no idea why some people think some Sanders supporters are so condescending.

None at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #9)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:53 AM

15. Agree 100% with what you said earlier.

 

Just caught Goolsbe on Bloomberg,and he challenged the same story and he is a HRC supporter. Wish people would spend fifteen minutes a day reading the real news one would understand the Propaganda coming form the Chattering Class out of D.C.. The question I ask is,who own's this Paper and what is their agenda?

Again,Goolsbe is calling for the same agenda Bernie is preaching,and this Guy is one of the smartest Economist who turned the Bush nightmare around and saved this Country's collective rear ends.
This is the DU member formerly known as Wellstone ruled.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightZone (Reply #7)

Wed May 11, 2016, 12:49 PM

19. Go Bernie


Millionaire Think Tank walks back inaccurate Bernie Bash:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017369392

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightZone (Reply #7)

Wed May 11, 2016, 04:48 PM

21. Go Bernie


170 Economists agree with Senator Sanders Economic Policies. Millionaire Think Tank walks back inaccurate Bernie Bash. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017369392

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightZone (Reply #7)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:22 AM

46. there are many great reasons to vote for him--

 

how realistic his plans are completely depends on his mandate and the make-up of congress, and he is very clear on that in his campaign.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #6)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:11 AM

8. The experts say magic would need to happen in order to enact his proposals.

 

Promises minus proposed new revenues = huge gap.

Sanders is promising far more than he can possibly finance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #8)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:26 AM

48. A lot of what he proposes are not "promises".

 

He is not "promising" single payer healthcare, or free college, for instance.

He is putting out an agenda and goals for most of his policy proposals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #48)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:02 AM

56. Pipe dreams are not an agenda

 

A road map is plans with objectives and means that at least roughly tally.

When the objectives and means don't match from the get go, it's called a pipe dream.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:21 AM

13. The Washington Post is selling a fantasy agenda

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 12:13 PM

16. So they multiply by ten to exaggerate by an order of magnitude...

 

that tell you they know they have no defense for their claim so they have to lie by a factor of ten. They have nothing. They know they have nothing. Why not multiply the numbers by 80 to cover the entire lifespan of the average person? That's how ridiculous they be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 12:17 PM

17. They definitely would have called JFK's plan to send a man to the moon a fantasy agenda.

Somehow we've gotten ourselves mired in the status quo. Anyone with a dream is labeled a nut and anyone with great aspirations for making the country better for average Americans is selling a "fantasy" agenda. I have 2 words for the Washington Post: fuck off.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vinca (Reply #17)

Wed May 11, 2016, 09:49 PM

22. Serious papers never called JFK lunar plan a fantasy agenda

 

because the scientists of the time had devised a work program which was met by a funding those scientists deemed adequate to fulfill the task. The maths added up.

In the case of bernie's plan, a bipartisan group of economists says the maths do not add up.

It's not a matter of opinion, but of numbers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #22)

Thu May 12, 2016, 05:58 AM

44. We have a choice. We can spent the trillions on killing people or helping people.

One way or another trillions of dollars will be spent, it's a matter of whose pantry becomes filled as a result.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vinca (Reply #44)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:28 AM

49. clearly that's fantasy talk

 

certainly according to the DC establishment

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vinca (Reply #44)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:58 AM

53. Let Bernie say he will cut defense by 17 Trillion

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #53)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:26 AM

84. It's amazing. I remember when Democrats stood for what Bernie is pitching.

Now it appears half the party is more concerned with the weapons of war. Time for a third party - Democrats and the GOP are becoming one in the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 10:55 PM

23. Getting money out of politics is the most important

 

issue of our generation.

Corporations have their tenticles so deeply embedded into our government, exerting influence in areas as far ranging as prison, defense, pharamceutical, energy and countless others, and have bought and paid for countless individuals. This has become our "new normal".

Hillary represents the absolute pinnacle of this corrupt system.


If electing someone who recognizes and wants to change this is a "fantasy", then count me among the fantasizers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jack_krass (Reply #23)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:02 PM

25. Well, that's conflating two issues

 

I agree with you special interests should be given far less leverage, with caps on electoral spending like in Europe.

However, a politician who presents a program which is grossly mis-funded is not a good alternative either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #25)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:11 AM

45. Removing corporate money and influence in politics *is* Bernies program

 

The others, like extending k12 to include college (which Im all for) need details worked out, like Hillary's plans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jack_krass (Reply #45)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:59 AM

54. No. A serious politiciam cannot let TRILLIONS **details** to be worked out

 

Bernie just isn't fit to lead the world's #2 economy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #54)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:41 AM

63. Bernie is the most "fit" of the three current POTUS candidates...

 

to run the world's largest economy, to start untangling us from the corporate octopus that has us ensnared, and to rebalace our PNAC driven foreign policy.

Hes given plenty of detail on his plans, at least as much as any other candidate running.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:06 PM

27. Similar story from AP via yahoo regarding the 18 TRILLION

Study: Sanders' economic plan piles $18T on federal debt

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/study-sanders-economic-plan-piles-170219543.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #27)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:12 PM

28. Bernie promises things he knows he can't deliver. He has no real plan.

He is a merchant of anger and envy. I was OK with Bernie until he started the huckstering

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redstateblues (Reply #28)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:39 PM

35. At the beginning of this process I had a favorable view of him also. That is no longer the case

with me

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:13 PM

29. They're pulling out all stops now. Panic is upon them. WP lost its' journalistic credibility

 

in this race a long time ago. But, I'm not surprised to see yet another in a long string of hit job "opinion" pieces. This, the story now that she's spending on ad buys again with Bush $. The story that Big Dawg is out on the trail now in NJ and Montana. Yep. Maybe there IS something to Bernie's math.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:15 PM

30. Based on Urban-Brookings fatally flawed "analysis"

Urban-Brookings "analysis" is more like a hit job. They forgot at least one thing -- a major thing: expected growth in economic output expected as a result of such a bold, and sustained, plan for public investment.

It is an accepted principle of economics that such investment spurs growth. Furthermore, depending on the type of investment, each dollar invested is associated with an estimated "multiplier" (you get more bang for certain kinds of bucks).

So, why did Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center apparently fail to account for the "stimulus" effect?

You've got to wonder.

For details and references about an analysis that applies the standard models of associated growth, see:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511935929

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pat_k (Reply #30)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:20 PM

31. That type of 'growth assumption' is what bankrupted Europe and Japan

 

Continued spending, even during growth periods on the assumption spending will foster growth. Look at the debts of Italy. Greece. France. Japan. Britain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #31)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:26 PM

32. Recommend reading the linked critiques.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #31)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:32 PM

33. P.S. Any analysis of proposed legislation by GAO would include models for stimulus effect.

You can argue whether or not the assumptions are valid, but to exclude standard economic modeling without justification makes it a "hit piece."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pat_k (Reply #33)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:35 PM

34. You cannot stimulate an economy which is as far in debt as that of the US (or Japan, Britain)

 

The service of the debt becomes intolerable. You can only shake it off by defaulting, which, the US having the reference currency, would start a massive worldwide depression (and war?)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #34)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:10 AM

41. wholly crap are you wrong. You must love hearing yourself talk, I sure hope so, cause no one else

 

does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to litlbilly (Reply #41)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:48 AM

50. What an insightful and polite comment

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:57 PM

36. I, for one, love the idea of "fantasy land,"

Which is also known as northern- and western Europe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nyan (Reply #36)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:01 AM

37. He'll do well in Anaheim. . . .




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:03 AM

38. that's a blog post from a Hillary supporter---full of false smears

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to amborin (Reply #38)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:43 AM

79. Oh no - that's "journalism"...

aka one person's biased, bought and paid opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:04 AM

39. And we are back to meme 1.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Live and Learn (Reply #39)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:52 AM

43. That's wonderful!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:26 AM

47. Why does a sprinkle of socialism to keep predatory capitalism in check,

 

scare the shit out of Hillary supporters?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to B Calm (Reply #47)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:01 AM

55. Because socialism failed everywhere

 

Hard nosed social democracy works, state social security included.

But that's not socialism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Reply #55)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:06 AM

57. You sound like a Republican.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to B Calm (Reply #57)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:35 AM

60. Most of Hillary's superfanz do.

Funny how that works.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to QC (Reply #60)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:40 AM

62. It's like conservative republicans have gave up on the GOP and have taken over

 

the Democratic party. I've known this for sometime now, but what surprises me is how some of the old liberal posters on DU are supporting this takeover.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to B Calm (Reply #62)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:54 AM

68. That's exactly what has happened--as the GOP has descended into Jonestown

madness, conservative-but-not-insane Republicans have come pouring into the Democratic Party.

Given their natural Republican sense of entitlement, they believe that the party belongs to them and those who don't care for their agenda should get out.

At least cuckoos just leave an egg in their host's nest and fly away--they don't demand that those who built the nest get the fuck out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to QC (Reply #68)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:04 AM

73. Great analysis of what is really going on here!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to QC (Reply #68)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:28 AM

75. Thanks, but I wish I was wrong.

It's been a sad thing to watch.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to QC (Reply #75)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:30 AM

76. Me too!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to QC (Reply #68)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:42 AM

78. This ^^^^^^^!

Is exactly why Hillary is winning. Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TheSarcastinator (Reply #78)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:18 PM

86. K&R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to B Calm (Reply #57)

Thu May 12, 2016, 05:55 PM

85. JFK was not a Sandersista

 

There have been moderate Democrats before most of Sanders guerilleros were born.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:31 AM

58. I'd rather buy "hope" than "no, we can't"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:33 AM

59. Some men see things and say why...

other men see things that never were and say why not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to One of the 99 (Reply #59)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:36 AM

61. how dare we dream, right?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:42 AM

64. Massive K & R. Thanks for posting.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:42 AM

65. As a matter of pure principal, does anyone really have a problem with Bernie's policy goals?

 

Is the problem his goals, or the problem of getting there???

Because if we agree on the goals, that is much of the battle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #65)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:50 AM

66. I am starting to think that Hillary's supporters, especially the brand new to DU ones, actually DO

 

have a problem with Bernie's goals.

Bernie's goals go against Third Way and Wall Street and corporate and MIC agendas. If someone supports Hillary, they are against Bernie's goals. Simple as that. And it is not about the money, it is about the goals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to djean111 (Reply #66)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:54 AM

72. That may well be, but I'd like to know who the

 

Heck they are! Will they be brave enough to admit it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #72)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:10 AM

74. No, but when the Third Way and MIC and Wall Street and corporate agendas are carried out,

 

they will be the ones who laugh and tell us to STFU because we knew that scorpion would sting us when we gave it a ride across the river.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #65)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:31 AM

71. Excellent point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:52 AM

67. WaPo.....

 

The rag that employs Capeheart. They're a joke, if you're citing them as a reference I'm not taking you a bit seriously.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:40 AM

77. It's what the Washington Post is selling...

that needs closer inspection.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:44 AM

81. and what exactly, is Hillary selling?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:45 AM

82. Actual governance is a 'fantasy' to Hillary

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:47 AM

83. Bezos bashes Bernie -- Part 1345

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread