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Fri May 13, 2016, 09:51 AM

 

It's pure ignorance to say Democrats are the same as Republicans

Unlike Republicans, Democrats (yes, this includes Hillary) work for protecting voting rights, protecting civil rights, protecting abortion rights, fighting for equal pay, fighting for family leave...

In addition to wanting to expand health care coverage, reduce the burden of college debt, putting tighter regulations on Wall Street, raising taxes on the highest earners...

In addition to not repealing the social safety net...

In addition to not making racism the law of the land, deporting twelve million people from this country.

Yeah, the Democrats are exactly the same as the Republicans.

Tell yourself that.

44 replies, 1476 views

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Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply It's pure ignorance to say Democrats are the same as Republicans (Original post)
CrowCityDem May 2016 OP
Cosmic Kitten May 2016 #1
Silver_Witch May 2016 #2
VulgarPoet May 2016 #3
ThePhilosopher04 May 2016 #9
Armstead May 2016 #4
Buzz cook May 2016 #29
Armstead May 2016 #30
tabasco May 2016 #5
-none May 2016 #6
JohnnyRingo May 2016 #7
AgingAmerican May 2016 #8
MineralMan May 2016 #10
egalitegirl May 2016 #11
CrowCityDem May 2016 #15
egalitegirl May 2016 #17
CrowCityDem May 2016 #19
egalitegirl May 2016 #21
Attorney in Texas May 2016 #12
arcane1 May 2016 #43
HumanityExperiment May 2016 #13
LexVegas May 2016 #14
highprincipleswork May 2016 #16
CrowCityDem May 2016 #20
highprincipleswork May 2016 #42
Arugula Latte May 2016 #23
Orsino May 2016 #18
Arugula Latte May 2016 #22
CrowCityDem May 2016 #24
Arugula Latte May 2016 #25
CrowCityDem May 2016 #26
Arugula Latte May 2016 #27
CrowCityDem May 2016 #28
Arugula Latte May 2016 #38
KPN May 2016 #31
Mnpaul May 2016 #34
KPN May 2016 #36
Mnpaul May 2016 #32
pengu May 2016 #33
Mnpaul May 2016 #35
KPN May 2016 #37
dbackjon May 2016 #40
dbackjon May 2016 #39
arcane1 May 2016 #41
CharlotteVale May 2016 #44

Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 09:52 AM

1. But Oligarchs ARE all the same

Coke or Pepsi?

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Response to Cosmic Kitten (Reply #1)

Fri May 13, 2016, 09:57 AM

2. Pepsi please...no coke...no Pepsi

 

Never mind !

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Response to Cosmic Kitten (Reply #1)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:01 AM

3. Well, this is a pretty apt metaphor

The only real difference between Coke and Pepsi is one is just a little bit sweeter. They're both still bad for you.

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Response to Cosmic Kitten (Reply #1)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:23 AM

9. This. +1

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:06 AM

4. Socially liberal -- Neoliberal (i.e. corporate conservative) on issues of Wealth and Power

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
the resurgence of 19th century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism.[5] Its advocates support extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to enhance the role of the private sector in the economy.[6][7][8][9][10][11][12] Neoliberalism is famously associated with the economic policies introduced by Margaret Thatcher in the United Kingdom and Ronald Reagan in the United States.[7] The implementation of neoliberal policies and the acceptance of neoliberal economic theories in the 1970s are seen by some academics as the root of financialization, with the financial crisis of 2007Ė08 one of the ultimate results.



http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/democrats-have-no-soul-clintons-neoliberalism-and-how-peoples-party-lost-its-way
On the Democratic side, President Carter began nudging the party in the direction of corporate, free trade, tight monetarist policies that were later to find their most optimistic rendition during Bill Clintonís administration. The recession of the early 1980s, which coincided with President Reaganís first years, was actually launched by Fed chairman Paul Volcker under a Democratic president.....

.....But all this provided only a patchwork solution to the Democratic partyís crisis of legitimacy. Was it a pro-corporate (neoliberal) or pro-labor (New Deal) party? The actual tendency was for the party to move firmly in the former direction, while escalating rhetorical claims for the rights of cultural minorities, at the same time as the Republican party moved swiftly toward a neoconservative solution to its own crisis. Meanwhile, the Democrats never really addressed the popular roots of dissatisfaction: in a global economy with more dispersed power, both economic and political, how was the standard of living of the American middle-class to be maintained?

The huge popularity of Bernie Sanders on the left today speaks to precisely this dilemma, fundamentally unaddressed through four decades of deceit and illusion to maintain elite power, as inequality continuously rose in that period of time, the middle class became ever more diminished, and real political power became confined to a vanishingly small elite group.

The Republican establishment, over the last forty years, pursued a parallel, and often intersecting (especially in times of war and recession), path as the Democrats....

.....It is noteworthy that a great many among Americaís intellectual elite support Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders, offering standard neoliberal justifications, whereas those outside elite intellectual circles are more likely to support Sanders; likewise with Trump and his antagonists and supporters. What the establishment will not do is take either of them seriously; meaning that they will not, as they havenít for forty years, acknowledge the concerns of the constituencies they are supposed to represent, and direct the very real anxieties felt on all parts of the political spectrum toward positive resolutions good for the country and for the rest of the world..

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Response to Armstead (Reply #4)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:30 AM

29. This bit isn't true

The recession of the early 1980s, which coincided with President Reaganís first years, was actually launched by Fed chairman Paul Volcker under a Democratic president.....


The recession of the late 70's early 80's was a classic post war recession where production out stripped demand. This was componded by inflation which started during the Nixon/Ford error. You may not remember WIN buttons.

Volker did what most fed chairmen do in the face of inflation, he reduced the money supply. At the same time Carter was attempting to (and failing in most cases) expand public services and the social safety net.

So the article gets that point wrong so why trust the rest?

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #29)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:34 AM

30. I'll grant you that was too specific....

 

I think that was one factor, but overall thecountry was in an economic mess for most of the 70's duer to a complex convengrnce of factors

But overall I think this article nails on on the head....Picking out that to dismiss the whole article is forests and trees.

Rather than offering an agenda that truly addressed the core problems -- and actively fight back against Reaganomics and Corporate Propaganda -- the democrats became a kinder and gentler version of the GOP.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:09 AM

5. If what we have seen lately is what the Democratic party calls "fighting,"

 

then we need to start a new army.

The Democratic party is not the same as the extreme radical republican party. Hooray! But it's not a party that really works for the good of the working man anymore. The party has been corrupted by money. The chairperson of the party is a shill for predatory payday lenders. Time to move on.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:15 AM

6. Some actually are the same though.

And that is the problem. They think that (D) by their names makes then a Democrat.
No, it is their policies that make the distinction, not a letter by their name. Also real Democrats are less prone to corruption.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:20 AM

7. You are correct

The people who claim that stand with their toes over the liberal goal line but envision themselves as slightly left of center. They look downfield and declare everyone who doesn't stand with them as far right zealots.

Perhaps it's less ignorance and more a matter of perspective. Unfortunately, these people also consider themselves the judge of who's a real Democrat.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:22 AM

8. Democrats are just more subtle about it

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:23 AM

10. Ignorance is correctable. Deliberate ignorance is deliberate.

I'll have none of it.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:30 AM

11. You cannot keep out Bernie but take credit for his positions

 

Bernie fought for civil rights while Hillary was a Goldwater girl. Bernie opposed the Wall Street bailout while Hillary voted for it. Hillary is funded by Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex. Hillary is an ally of the Bush family and they invest their money together. Bernie is the one fighting for higher minimum wage, not Hillary.

Hillary is part of the "bipartisan" machine, not Bernie. What you are trying to do is to assign credit to Hillary for Bernie's positions. Doesn't work that way.

Democratic Party leadership is the same as the Republican Party leadership. If you really care for the issues, why don't you just support Bernie?

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Response to egalitegirl (Reply #11)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:37 AM

15. Who said anything about Bernie?

 

This wasn't about who you support. It's about the asinine school of thought propagating here that says the majority of the Democratic party are actually conservative Republicans. It's dishonest, disheartening, and flat-out ignorant.

You perfectly encapsulate what I'm talking about by bringing up the minimum wage, saying Hillary isn't fighting for a higher one. I'm sorry, but in what world is $12 not more than $7.25? She's a Republican because she supports the largest increase in the minimum wage in history? How does that make sense?

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #15)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:42 AM

17. Not asinine school but real frustrated leftists

 

You miss the point. Those who make the point are usually Bernie supporters who have been frustrated with the Democratic Party leadership for working with the Republicans.

The Democratic Party has both kinds of politicians, those who are for the people and those who represent Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex. Right now, the leadership consists of the latter group (which includes Hillary Clinton) and the former group (which includes Bernie Sanders) complains about it.

Your objection is to the complaints which is flawed because you try to assign credit for all the good things in the party to the wrong people.

It is time for real CHANGE!

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Response to egalitegirl (Reply #17)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:52 AM

19. I didn't 'assign credit' to anyone. The Democratic party has been for those positions all along.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #19)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:00 AM

21. No, the leadership marginalizes Democrats with those positions and works with Republicans n/t

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:31 AM

12. Lincoln and Ike were Republicans. Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman were Democrats. The lines are not as

crisp as you pretend.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #12)

Fri May 13, 2016, 12:13 PM

43. Kim Davis was a Dem too. n/t

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:33 AM

13. 'Tell yourself that' HRC is republican light...

 

Yep, HRC is and has always shown to be republican light in her positions and policies throughout her history

She's always required outside influence from protests and engaged voters to pull her to the left

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:36 AM

14. Meh...Berniebros being Berniebros.nt

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:39 AM

16. Listen, when they act that way, they are the same. All of what you mention is perfectly fine, when

 

Democrats actually act that way. Let's be honest - since the days of Ronald Reagan, with everyone sucking the fumes of his terrible legacy and being swayed by them, Democrats have veered Right on many, many occasions. OK, they thought it was the politically expedient way to go perhaps.

But it has not worked out!

We have veered Rightward as a country as a consequence, and the current end of the line from that line of attack is TRUMP!

I mean, wake up and smell the coffee!

Democrats are Democrats when they act like Democrats, not a bunch of corporate hacks.

Look, whatever you think of him, Bernie has run a successful campaign. Wildly successful, in fact, given where he started and what he was up against. There is a whole lot of energy bottled up in this, and it's kind of ridiculous for us to be fighting against each other when we're mostly (on this site anyway) trying to be "Progressive". Well, prove it Democratic Party. Don't just say one thing for the campaign, have success with it, and then veer Rightward later. That's a surefire way to discourage people and lose their vote.

If we simply embrace the energy of this newfound Progressivism and Populism, we steal that energy from the other side (frankly many or some Republicans have made better use of it recently more so than the Democrats). We come together as a Party that vigorously fights for those correct things, correct policies, correct ideas. Bernie supporters will, I predict, absolutely join you there.

But don't dress up some Republican virtues and try to see it to us as "Democratic". We're not buying that anymore.

It's a new day. It's a new time. It's time to declare triangulation and Reagan worship by default or overt fealty DEAD! It's a time to embrace outright Progressivism and Populism and run with it.

I believe that Obama is wise enough to see this. I believe that Hillary can or could, if shown the way. I know that Bernie and his supporters would be proud to go along with that program.

Let's not do some bad replay of 1968. It would be so unnecessary.

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Response to highprincipleswork (Reply #16)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:53 AM

20. This isn't about Bernie. It's about myopic, self-hating Democrats.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #20)

Fri May 13, 2016, 12:12 PM

42. Nothing says "self-hatred" more than veering rightwards because of the popular success of

 

smooth-talking purveyors of false ideas like Ronald Reagan.

Bernie's success proves that it's time for Democrats to start acting like Democrats again.

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Response to highprincipleswork (Reply #16)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:05 AM

23. Not only that, Democrats have veered rightward in large part because Bill and Hillary

 

were doing their best to push them that way. The welfare "reform" debacle is just one example.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 10:42 AM

18. It's partial ignorance.

The two parties are not the same, but have been getting samier, and Citizens United hurt us further.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:03 AM

22. True "Democrats" aren't the same as Republicans, but Hillary is pretty close to being Republican.

 

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #22)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:08 AM

24. Do you actually know what the Republican party stands for these days?

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #24)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:17 AM

25. Yeah--Moving $$ to the top 1 percent, Neocon war for profit, neoliberal

 

bulldozing of the markets, corporate/Wall St. control of government--> Policies Hillary has supported.

As for social policies, Hillary is wobbly on late term abortion, is PRO death penalty (how Republican of her!), pushed fracking as Secretary of State, was all in favor of screwing over people who were already struggling on welfare, and so on.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #25)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:20 AM

26. You have a very odd idea of what it means to be a Republican.

 

"Wobbly' on late-term abortion? The Supreme Court has said multiple times that the law of the land allows restrictions. It is a very fringe opinion to say that there should never be any restriction on abortion. You won't find many politicians willing to say a woman two days before her due date should be able to terminate for any ol' reason.

Like it or not, since we don't have enough renewable energy right now, some fracking is going to be necessary until we get there. Unless you think sending money to terrorists for their oil is a better idea. Or burning more coal and destroying the environment at a faster rate.


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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #26)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:25 AM

27. Lol.

 

Selective reading is a strength of yours, I see.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #27)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:25 AM

28. You edited while I was typing. I have since edited in response.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #28)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:46 AM

38. My original post was not just about Wall St.

 

But, yes, the major focus of the Republican party--solidifying an oligarchy of the wealthy elites--lines up very well with Hillary's positions and statements over the past several years.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:35 AM

31. Frankly, both parties give the appearance that they are juxtaposed when

in actuality, they are not. It's all about money. Preserving the power and economic control of the oligarchs (mostly the southern aristocrats); and obtaining wealth by the pawns who do their service. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but the rule dominates.

Ergo, many if not most elected Democrats can be and are essentially the same as Republicans. Both sides vote for or against bills "reluctantly" as they like to say publicly. Both sides say they tried but couldn't get it past the other side -- the blame game. Gridlock is good for both. Both sides feed the fire of division which allows them to play this game.

That is why we need people like Bernie. Unfortunately, the political machine overwhelms such insurgencies with the help of all the sheeple asleep at the wheel.

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Response to KPN (Reply #31)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:40 AM

34. It's a two way bad cop/good cop routine

And I'm not playing anymore

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #34)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:44 AM

36. Same here.

I'm a Bernie or Buster all the way. Going to write him in. I think the Dems will win either way. Trump has way too many negatives and Rs make up only, what, 30% of the voting population -- and he's only got slightly more than half of them voting for him at this point. He might get some Is, but most will stay home or vote for the Dem.

So it's a good time to protest vote and make a statement. I hope Bernie gets several million write in votes if he is not the nominee -- but that's probably ambitious.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:35 AM

32. Not one Democratic Senator stood up to protect the rights of disenfranchised AA voters in Fla.

Not buying it. They also helped give us these unaccountable voting machines.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:36 AM

33. It's more like a good cop / bad cop routine

Then they go to the same parties and laugh it up.

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Response to pengu (Reply #33)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:41 AM

35. Jinx

see two posts above

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Response to pengu (Reply #33)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:46 AM

37. Exactly!

That's why I'm Bernie or Bust. I'm over the current system. Not going to play anymore.

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Response to KPN (Reply #37)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:55 AM

40. Then you should be banned from DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND

 

And thanks for not giving a shit about my rights.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 11:54 AM

39. Exactly - only those that are either GOP Trolls, or privledged enough not be affected by a Trump

 

Presidency see that.


A REAL Progressive/Democrat, one that TRULY cared about women's rights, LGBT rights, the environment, health care etc would never not consider voting for the eventual nominee.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 12:11 PM

41. They're not the same, but they are far too much alike.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 12:18 PM

44. Obama just renominated a Republican who wants to privatize Social Security to the

Board of Trustees for Social Security and Medicare.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-blahous-trustee-20160509-snap-story.html

So don't give me that about "not repealing the social safety net." I don't trust Hillary on Social Security either.

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