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Actor

(626 posts)
Fri May 13, 2016, 01:01 PM May 2016

Give GOP props, 25 years of relentless propaganda has worked brilliantly against Hillary.

Probably 80% of the libertarians (some say they are Democrats, some are I guess) who are supporting Bernie but wont vote for Hillary, who go on and on how they cant trust her, they dislike her, had either a neutral or positive opinion about her as recently as just a couple years ago.


I cant prove it but I know it is true, based on conversations, reading this place, FB, listening to media.

The push of anti Hillary propaganda the past 2 years has throttled up the attitudes, while at the same time not saying a word about any other liberal or Democrat including Bernie.

That is how this works, you have to single someone out to make them appear worse than all the rest. Isolate them with the negative comments so people will not be able to justify voting for her.

Future propaganda artists will use this as a textbook.

91 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Give GOP props, 25 years of relentless propaganda has worked brilliantly against Hillary. (Original Post) Actor May 2016 OP
Hillary herself has worked brilliantly against Hillary. MgtPA May 2016 #1
How so? scscholar May 2016 #2
No. For ignoring legal advice - like don't use your Blackberry (and, by extension, your own server) Fawke Em May 2016 #14
So that means all those Republicans have to do... scscholar May 2016 #15
Sometimes I think there's hope Kittycat May 2016 #29
Its likely that "opposition" has been a BIG ACT - a sham. Baobab May 2016 #48
If only she had a reputation for doing the right things right, k8conant May 2016 #63
No they are not self inflicted.. asuhornets May 2016 #3
Cool story, Bro. Kittycat May 2016 #31
Your faith is touching... egalitegirl May 2016 #56
There is never/seldom a post on a position of the HRC people. libdem4life May 2016 #77
I've never seen them mention a policy position ever. JRLeft May 2016 #86
I'd say the explanation is pretty obvious. That's kind of what a Bubble is. libdem4life May 2016 #87
They don't give a damn, some are voting for her for biological reasons and others are JRLeft May 2016 #88
And they condemn Bernie for being a Democrat-come-lately. libdem4life May 2016 #89
That makes 2 of us. JRLeft May 2016 #90
Bernie Sanders has been in Congress 25 years--how is that not Establishment...n/t asuhornets May 2016 #82
Um, could it be that he is an Independent? You know, the sentence that libdem4life May 2016 #91
.that^ 840high May 2016 #16
Most liberal democrats are not particularly susceptible to GOP propaganda whatchamacallit May 2016 #4
So much so that it forced Hillary to create an off site server and then not turn over the emails NWCorona May 2016 #5
And yet Powell & Rice did pretty much the same thing in the same job, and nobody cares. baldguy May 2016 #70
I'm on record as caring and Powell has said that he is being investigated as well NWCorona May 2016 #73
I missed Powell's 11 hr interrogation by the House Select Committee searching for Clinton scandals. baldguy May 2016 #76
I didn't know they had servers in their basements. I learn new stuff every day! cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #84
25 years of nonstop scandals and conflicts of interest. Yep all RW talking points. Katashi_itto May 2016 #6
It's okay, Hillary censors people who go too far! Yay America! Joob May 2016 #7
Did they make her give public statements? TCJ70 May 2016 #8
Hillary's record has worked against Hillary ibegurpard May 2016 #9
Oh puh-leeze... agracie May 2016 #10
Why hasn't the effort worked on you? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #11
And those secret speeches to Goldman Sachs? nt jalan48 May 2016 #12
Reminder, paid trolls spread propaganda. Look within. Broward May 2016 #13
Maybe she is just an unlikable person who comes off as untrustworthy. Throd May 2016 #17
meanwhile outside the echo chamber 6chars May 2016 #18
Libertarians are supporting Bernie? On what planet are you on? hobbit709 May 2016 #19
Speaking of propaganda, any evidence 80% of Bernie supporters are libertarians? Redwoods Red May 2016 #20
If it's "propaganda" (which is bullshit, of course), she made it easy for them. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #21
Her own actions have worked against her more than the GOP propaganda. At one time Autumn May 2016 #22
So deportations, check...Ban Muslims, check. ACA gone, pre existing exclusions back, check. Actor May 2016 #26
You call it heartless to put the blame for a persons own action on them where it belongs Autumn May 2016 #33
So either you are going to allow trump to be prez or you are not. Actor May 2016 #39
I've never voted for a republican in my life and I have no intention of doing it now. Autumn May 2016 #45
Thank you! Raster May 2016 #58
It is strange how the folks most likely to be hollering about "The Math" have the poorest understand TheKentuckian May 2016 #71
Which is worse - banning Muslims or bombing CanadaexPat May 2016 #78
Brocktacular! frylock May 2016 #23
No answer, I see. Will you be here when the deportations start, can we blame you at Actor May 2016 #24
No, I have no answer to your Brockaganda. frylock May 2016 #25
Havent been on media matters in years. I am a liberal, that is why you are confused Actor May 2016 #27
No confusion on my end, friendo. frylock May 2016 #28
Yes, there is mass confusion on your end. You dont believe liberals can do what I do Actor May 2016 #30
Was this betting angle taught in the class? frylock May 2016 #32
Impressive. Three replies deep and he's still on-script. Let's see how far he can go. jack_krass May 2016 #35
How bout you, game? $1000 is what I am willing to wager, if not just apologize to someone Actor May 2016 #38
Not a betting man either. What I, and many of us cannot jack_krass May 2016 #53
"I cant prove it but I know it is true" arcane1 May 2016 #34
Is Obama's appointee to head up the FBI now part of the "vast right wing conspiracy"? How about Attorney in Texas May 2016 #36
I had a neutral opinion of Hillary until she voted for the war. basselope May 2016 #37
I know about you, heard from you and the likes of you before. No matter how many Actor May 2016 #40
republicans pressbox69 May 2016 #43
The problem is I do care. basselope May 2016 #49
Your open support for Trump is noted. If you dont vote against him, you support him. Actor May 2016 #50
Sorry, that is the childish way to look at it. basselope May 2016 #51
Wouldn't not voting for Trump help Hillary? pinebox May 2016 #64
The logic you folks attempt to use doesnt work. If Trump is elected I will know Actor May 2016 #65
Sorry but your original statement is seriously flawed pinebox May 2016 #67
Ok. n/t zappaman May 2016 #72
They have lied themselves into a hole now though. nt BootinUp May 2016 #41
I'm voting for Hillary but for now the main thing is pressbox69 May 2016 #42
Putting aside the fact Trump will end all life on the planet, it is amazing to see how Actor May 2016 #44
Benghazi Biopsy: A Comprehensive Guide to One of America’s Worst Political Outrages Bill USA May 2016 #46
Yep Actor May 2016 #47
Those of us that lived through the 90s can recognize the stench of the RWNJ Gomez163 May 2016 #52
87% of statistics are made up on the spot. riderinthestorm May 2016 #54
That darn right wing. They made Hillary set up a private server. Shame. BillZBubb May 2016 #55
Wow...and this is Democratic Underground...amazing Actor May 2016 #57
Hillary *is* the right wing egalitegirl May 2016 #59
Yeah the Democratic and Underground parts bother a lot of people. BillZBubb May 2016 #60
Exactly, crazeee me thinking Democratic meant vote for the Democrat Actor May 2016 #62
Amazing that people who self-identify as Democrats can actually have.... Raster May 2016 #61
A lot of us expect Democrats to act like Democrats. Arugula Latte May 2016 #74
Us? So you wont be voting Dem. OK, got it. Actor May 2016 #75
Sniff...sniff...smells like projection. When the "fiscally conservative but socially liberal" set TheKentuckian May 2016 #66
Ouch! BillZBubb May 2016 #68
The seeds were planted many years ago. wildeyed May 2016 #69
I don't need the right-wing to see that she's a compulsive liar jfern May 2016 #79
You are delusional. I hate Libertarians, and I find her and Bill Clinton offensive in the extreme. highprincipleswork May 2016 #80
I am a Bernie supporter. I am not delusional, I am voting for the Dem, you? Actor May 2016 #83
Fine, sorry for the epithet, and compliment you on your avatar. On the other hand, highprincipleswork May 2016 #85
K&R betsuni May 2016 #81
 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
2. How so?
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:06 PM
May 2016

For being too good that people get jealous so they attack her? She has a reputation for getting things done and not letting incompetent people stop her like the moron that couldn't get her secure line to work so she had to get work done without waiting on him. He was trying to keep her from working, and she fought like hell against him and the rest of his kind. Now the Republicans want her arrested for getting work done. A Republican would have just sat on their hands and whined. I know. I read people here saying she should have just stopped working. No. That's not how it should be.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
14. No. For ignoring legal advice - like don't use your Blackberry (and, by extension, your own server)
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:45 PM
May 2016

because it isn't secure. The NSA told her that and she didn't listen.

Now she's the target of an FBI investigation.

BTW, the "moron" working on her secure phone line was doing what was legally required. Her going around him is a violation of the law.

 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
15. So that means all those Republicans have to do...
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:47 PM
May 2016

is cut a phone line then you're not allowed to work? I doubt that. They would have cut the phone lines to the White House years ago.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
29. Sometimes I think there's hope
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:18 PM
May 2016

Then I read a post like this, and realize no. No, we've truly been abandoned to utter bullcrap.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
48. Its likely that "opposition" has been a BIG ACT - a sham.
Fri May 13, 2016, 05:57 PM
May 2016

all along.

To fool the gullible American public.

k8conant

(3,030 posts)
63. If only she had a reputation for doing the right things right,
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:30 PM
May 2016

she might not be diving in the opinions in the swing states.

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
3. No they are not self inflicted..
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:12 PM
May 2016

When has Hillary ever broke the law ---never. Some people here at DU are using right wing talking points against the Democratic front runner. It's over for Bernie--he is the only one that don't know that.

 

egalitegirl

(362 posts)
56. Your faith is touching...
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:16 PM
May 2016

Noam Chomsky once wrote that any dictator would be proud to have a lapdog media like the American media. I guess that applies to the voters who vote for establishment candidates as well.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
77. There is never/seldom a post on a position of the HRC people.
Fri May 13, 2016, 07:25 PM
May 2016

It's make fun of Bernie, cutsey pie one-liners, and crapping on the Democratic Party, IMO. FBI Investigation? Right Wing Conspiracy. Avoiding FOIAs? Mere buzzing gnats at a picnic.

It's a sorry state of Democratic affairs. All Hat and No Cattle.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
87. I'd say the explanation is pretty obvious. That's kind of what a Bubble is.
Fri May 13, 2016, 08:53 PM
May 2016

They agree with the Leader, regardless. And with this one, it's even harder because it is subject to change without notice.

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
88. They don't give a damn, some are voting for her for biological reasons and others are
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:32 AM
May 2016

because it's about the team concept. Democrats vs republicans.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
89. And they condemn Bernie for being a Democrat-come-lately.
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:36 AM
May 2016

I'll take an anti-war Independent over a Democratic Hawk any day of the week. Male or female...makes No Difference.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
91. Um, could it be that he is an Independent? You know, the sentence that
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:51 AM
May 2016

bars him from decent Democratic society? Can't have it both ways...sorry. But then, you know that.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
4. Most liberal democrats are not particularly susceptible to GOP propaganda
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:13 PM
May 2016

We don't watch Fox or listen to Rush... The problem for 3rd Way dems like Hill, is we have principles and standards.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
5. So much so that it forced Hillary to create an off site server and then not turn over the emails
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:14 PM
May 2016

Until repeatedly asked to.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
73. I'm on record as caring and Powell has said that he is being investigated as well
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:55 PM
May 2016

and has already been interviewed by the FBI.

FYI, Hillary's situation is unique.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
76. I missed Powell's 11 hr interrogation by the House Select Committee searching for Clinton scandals.
Fri May 13, 2016, 07:02 PM
May 2016

Joob

(1,065 posts)
7. It's okay, Hillary censors people who go too far! Yay America!
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:30 PM
May 2016

What's Freedom of Speech? Why censor something with no hate speech?

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
8. Did they make her give public statements?
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:35 PM
May 2016

Like supporting NAFTA? The crime bill? DOMA? The IWR? Panama? The TPP?

Those aren't RW conspiracies.

Just to clarify: anything dealing with Benghazi, Bill's affairs, or her orchestrating murder is clearly garbage...but there are valid reasons to criticize her for her past policy positions and statements.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
11. Why hasn't the effort worked on you?
Fri May 13, 2016, 02:37 PM
May 2016

We're you vaccinated against propaganda? Or, did you make up your own mind?

So did many of us who won't vote for Hillary.

Throd

(7,208 posts)
17. Maybe she is just an unlikable person who comes off as untrustworthy.
Fri May 13, 2016, 03:02 PM
May 2016

That should be considered as well.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
18. meanwhile outside the echo chamber
Fri May 13, 2016, 03:11 PM
May 2016

Predictwise has Hillary at 97% to win the nomination, dem at 71% to win in November.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
19. Libertarians are supporting Bernie? On what planet are you on?
Fri May 13, 2016, 03:13 PM
May 2016

Libertarians are supporting a Socialist? I want some of what you're smoking.

 

Redwoods Red

(137 posts)
20. Speaking of propaganda, any evidence 80% of Bernie supporters are libertarians?
Fri May 13, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

Or is this just another one of those "I can't prove it but I know it's true" things?

More likely it's one of those "I just pulled this out of my nether regions" things.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
21. If it's "propaganda" (which is bullshit, of course), she made it easy for them.
Fri May 13, 2016, 03:18 PM
May 2016

When you need only tell the truth about someone and that paints them in a negative light, "propaganda" is easy.

Autumn

(44,756 posts)
22. Her own actions have worked against her more than the GOP propaganda. At one time
Fri May 13, 2016, 03:20 PM
May 2016

the GOP attack propaganda did a great job of garnering sympathy for her, it doesn't works anymore. Her history is well known All her negatives are on her because she has such bad judgment and she will change her stance on any issue to fit the crowd of the moment.

Actor

(626 posts)
26. So deportations, check...Ban Muslims, check. ACA gone, pre existing exclusions back, check.
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:14 PM
May 2016

How can you be so heartless?

Autumn

(44,756 posts)
33. You call it heartless to put the blame for a persons own action on them where it belongs
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:29 PM
May 2016

instead of someone else? Deportations, Banning Muslims, AC gone, pre existing exclusions back are all things republicans will attempt to do and have nothing to do with your OP and my post.

Hilary's negatives I lay on her shoulders where they belong. I am done defending her, won't waste another minute doing it. She gave them the ammunition to use against her, no one else did it. Perhaps the democratic party should not have pushed such a weak candidate with so many negatives.

Autumn

(44,756 posts)
45. I've never voted for a republican in my life and I have no intention of doing it now.
Fri May 13, 2016, 05:28 PM
May 2016

I know where you are going to try to go so let's get this out of the way . I reject the premise that voting for another candidate or only voting for down ticket democrats is a vote for Trump. A vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary. A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. Not choosing to vote for a candidate you dislike and distrust is not choosing to vote for a candidate you dislike and distrust. My vote is my vote to do with as I wish and what I do with that one vote is nobody's business but mine

There is no magic vote that jumps from one candidate that you didn't vote for to another candidate . One person. One vote

I'm not a registered democrat anymore, I switched to Unaffiliated after over 40 years a dem so now I'm one of those people who many of you think has no business weighing in on the primary vote to decide which democrat should be the nominee so according to your little DWS and many other democrats I should just shut up until she wants my vote. But I'm an opinionated Latina woman, I don't go where I'm not wanted so good luck.

And just to be clear, I supported Hillary in 08 to the very end. I could tell you everything she ever did, i don't want her near the White House

TheKentuckian

(24,943 posts)
71. It is strange how the folks most likely to be hollering about "The Math" have the poorest understand
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:51 PM
May 2016

of basic addition.

Of course the truth is that these folks understand that 1+1=2, the problem is they feel entitled to votes and therefore can only allow themselves to see subtraction in play.
Unfortunately, this results in one tying themselves into such knots that they have to publicly and forceful argue against the whole idea that 1+1=2 and that is both absurd and pitiful. In fact, it is absurdly pitiful while also being arrogant and entitled as can be.

Actor

(626 posts)
24. No answer, I see. Will you be here when the deportations start, can we blame you at
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:13 PM
May 2016

that point, will you take any responsibility when ACA is repealed and pre existing exclusion provision kills a few thousand every year?

Answer the question.

Actor

(626 posts)
30. Yes, there is mass confusion on your end. You dont believe liberals can do what I do
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:19 PM
May 2016

for the sake of sanity and doing what is right, but that is what liberals do, so I assume you are new to this from that standpoint.

Would you like to bet a very large sum of money on it?

I am sure I can prove I am not working for anybody, the board admins here could help, game?

frylock

(34,825 posts)
32. Was this betting angle taught in the class?
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:25 PM
May 2016

I keep seeing this challenge made from posters like yourself who all joined mid-March through mid-April. In any case, no, I'm not a gambling man, thanks.

Actor

(626 posts)
38. How bout you, game? $1000 is what I am willing to wager, if not just apologize to someone
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:53 PM
May 2016

who has been working for social and economic justice for a very long time.

 

jack_krass

(1,009 posts)
53. Not a betting man either. What I, and many of us cannot
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:10 PM
May 2016

Understand is if you're for peace and justice, why are you defending someone who:

-sent hundreds of thousands of people, many of them minorities into prison hell simply for posession of drugs
-makes 250000 for giving a speecg
-laughs and jokes at the torture and death of a leader who she was negotiating with just months beforex and whos children she personally hosted.
-who buddies around with mass murderers like Kissinger and Baker
-heres HRC with one of her sociopath friends laughing gleefully at the prospect of mass murder

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
36. Is Obama's appointee to head up the FBI now part of the "vast right wing conspiracy"? How about
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:42 PM
May 2016

Judge Emmet Sullivan who was appointed by Bill Clinton - is he part of the "vast right wing conspiracy," too?

If there are more unfavorable news stories about Hillary than other candidates, it may be because she is the only candidate under FBI investigation and the only candidate whose breach of the FOIA has resulted in the State Department being sued over three dozen times for intentional violations of the law. Hillary's biggest problems are of Hillary's own making.

Also, what do you think libertarians believe? Generally, libertarians want a smaller role for government and progressives (like Sanders) want a bigger role for government. If you think Sanders supporters are generally libertarians, you may need to go back and do a little more research on that thesis.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
37. I had a neutral opinion of Hillary until she voted for the war.
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:47 PM
May 2016

At that moment she lost my vote forever and she will never get it back.

Actor

(626 posts)
40. I know about you, heard from you and the likes of you before. No matter how many
Fri May 13, 2016, 04:56 PM
May 2016

millions are harmed, you simply dont care.

Republicans are like that.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
49. The problem is I do care.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:02 PM
May 2016

Which is why I won't vote for Republicans.

Which leaves Hillary and Trump out.

Actor

(626 posts)
50. Your open support for Trump is noted. If you dont vote against him, you support him.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:04 PM
May 2016

That is the adult way to look at this.

Sorry

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
51. Sorry, that is the childish way to look at it.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:06 PM
May 2016

There are many more choices on the ballot, thank the gods.

I won't vote for a republican, which leaves out Hillary and Trump.

Actor

(626 posts)
65. The logic you folks attempt to use doesnt work. If Trump is elected I will know
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:35 PM
May 2016

why and who allowed it.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
67. Sorry but your original statement is seriously flawed
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:39 PM
May 2016

It can be used just as I said.

Many of us won't vote for Hillary nor Trump, now what? Our vote is our own and many of us have no interest in supporting a talking yam or a person who has no integrity.

The only one you have to blame is yourself for supporting a candidate most of America can't stand and who is weaker in a GE. You built this.

Actor

(626 posts)
44. Putting aside the fact Trump will end all life on the planet, it is amazing to see how
Fri May 13, 2016, 05:08 PM
May 2016

the propaganda worked.

People who two years ago had no opinion of Hillary are now experts at why she cant be trusted.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
46. Benghazi Biopsy: A Comprehensive Guide to One of America’s Worst Political Outrages
Fri May 13, 2016, 05:55 PM
May 2016

..The GOP has done a masterful job of mounting a multi-year McCarthyist attack on Clinton employing innuendo and lies to program the thoughts of those who won't or can't think for themselves: those who prefer to be told what they think rather than do any critical thinking for themselves. Let's not forget to give credit to the M$M who have uncritically printed every anonymous sourced, leaked rumor and phony story for the GOP with little interest in uncovering actual facts and even less interest in covering the real story of Benghazi: the GOP Benghazi Attack on Clinton - entailing 8 Benghazi Show trials which have gone on non-stop for over three years. This is about the best article I have found on this political assassination (praise Newsweek).


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511919551

Moussa Koussa.

That is the name of the “classified source” in an old email from Hillary Clinton released last week by Republicans purportedly investigating the 2012 attack on the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya. Under the instructions of the Benghazi committee’s chairman, Republican Representative Trey Gowdy of South Carolina, Koussa’s name was blacked-out on the publicly issued email, as Republicans proclaimed revealing his identity would compromise national security. The media ran with it, saying Clinton had sent classified information through her personal email account.


But the CIA never said the name was secret. Nor did the Defense Intelligence Agency or the FBI. No, Koussa’s role as an intelligence source is about as classified as this column. He is the former intelligence chief and foreign minister of Libya. In 2011, he fled that country for Great Britain, where he provided boodles of information to MI6 and the CIA. Documents released long ago show Koussa’s cooperation. Government officials have openly discussed it. His name appears in newspapers with casual discussions about his assistance. Sanctions by the British and the Americans against Koussa were lifted because of his help, and he moved to Qatar. All of that is publicly known.

But, as they have time and again, the Republicans on the Benghazi committee released deceitful information for what was undoubtedly part of a campaign—as Kevin McCarthy of the House Republican leadership has admitted—to drive down Clinton’s poll numbers. Republicans have implied—and some journalists have flatly stated—that Clinton was reckless and may have broken the law by sending an email that included thirdhand hearsay mentioning Koussa’s name. The reality is that the Republicans continue to be reckless with the truth.
(more)
 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
52. Those of us that lived through the 90s can recognize the stench of the RWNJ
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:07 PM
May 2016

on every so called "Hillary is evil" story.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
54. 87% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:11 PM
May 2016

I'm actually enjoying the spectacle of your contortions. Its adorable.



BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
55. That darn right wing. They made Hillary set up a private server. Shame.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:13 PM
May 2016

They made Hillary take all that money from the bankers. Shame. They made Hillary vote yes on the Iraq War. Shame on them. The things they make that poor woman do!

 

egalitegirl

(362 posts)
59. Hillary *is* the right wing
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:19 PM
May 2016

The problem is that Hillary epitomizes Right Wing. She is an ally of the Bush family, has received money from Goldman Sachs, voted for Wall Street bailouts, is part of the Military Industrial Complex and has a right wing record in the Senate.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
60. Yeah the Democratic and Underground parts bother a lot of people.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:19 PM
May 2016

You can try to blame all of Hillary's problems on the right wing, but it is bullshit. She's her own worst enemy. And she's not your friend.

Raster

(20,996 posts)
61. Amazing that people who self-identify as Democrats can actually have....
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:20 PM
May 2016

...opinions and beliefs other than those required by the DLS/DNC/Brock/Clinton machine?

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
74. A lot of us expect Democrats to act like Democrats.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:57 PM
May 2016

Funny how that works.

Having a D by your name and acting like a Republican Lite doesn't cut it for us.

TheKentuckian

(24,943 posts)
66. Sniff...sniff...smells like projection. When the "fiscally conservative but socially liberal" set
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:36 PM
May 2016

starts running off at the mouth about folks being libertarians it is pretty funny.

Now, granted they like Bill of Rights toilet paper so it isn't really on the nose for them either but I am amused in five Picard's face palming type fashion that they are spouting off about someone else when it is a closer description of themselves.

I also missed the 25 years of Republicans complaints that Clinton is too fiscally conservative, too hawkish, too close to the predator classes, is too corporate, and can be a foot dragger on some important social issues.

About none of that ever happened at all. It is just what happens to the thinking process when one's position is that any criticism of Hillary Clinton is created equally which is delusional or damn dishonest or just plain old stupid.

Of course it is also a convenient hand wave to ignore the same 25+ years of toxicity from the failed DLC/Turd way philosophy being rejected so shifty is also a solid option to explain this sort of nonsensical dialog.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
69. The seeds were planted many years ago.
Fri May 13, 2016, 06:44 PM
May 2016
Almost $2 Million Spent in Magazine's Anti-Clinton Project, but on What?

And what did Mr. Scaife get for his money? The most obvious and immediate fruits of the Arkansas Project were a handful of lengthy articles in The Spectator portraying the Clintons as a slick political couple addled by greed and ambition, a view that reflected the magazine's unrelentingly critical view of the President.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/15/us/almost-2-million-spent-in-magazine-s-anti-clinton-project-but-on-what.html


And that is EXACTLY what so many "progressives" now parrot. The talking points of Richard Mellon Fucking Scaife.
 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
80. You are delusional. I hate Libertarians, and I find her and Bill Clinton offensive in the extreme.
Fri May 13, 2016, 07:30 PM
May 2016

What they have done to the Democratic Party is to tear down its traditional values in fighting for the less fortunate, in favor of a Party that kowtows to special interests.

Why? Because in the noxious wake of Ronnie Reagan, with his false and downright harmful ideas and policies, that was seen as the only way to WIN!

Well, it's not the way to win any longer. The success of Bernie Sanders and the relative hunger of people for his message, even though he started as practically a complete unknown, show that people are hungry for the kind of Democratic Progressivism, Populism, Liberalism that used to be taken for granted. That was established by truly great Democrats like FDR. This kept us in the majority for decades, way better than triangulation and Third Way politics has done.

So, now, when the people are hungry for it, you can safely bet that the Clintons and other party apparatchiks, who don't seem to recall our former glory days before triangulation, are going to try to feed us a stale diet of the same old shit and expect it to go down easily and to attract folks from the mythical center who they think actually like that gruel. All the while sticking it in the eye of those who are energized for the Democratic Party, as long as it remains true to its core traditional values.

What should be so hard? You Clinton supporters are always claiming with pride how "Progressive" she is. Well, prove it. Get her and the party hacks to incorporate us into the frigging Party for a change. The time is ripe. Heck, Hillary stayed in the race by being Progressive. Donald Trump even talks like an anti=trade Progressive, saving American jobs, because he knows it works!

Convince your brothers and sisters to join with us in a Great Progressive Crusade, and we will steamroll through these Republican maniacs like a knife through butter.

Continue to fight with us, condescend to us, lie to us about whether or not you are going to truly be Progressive, and that's another matter. That's a civil war on the Democratic side, and that' likely to remain ugly and get us nowhere. Same with triangulation. Been there, done that. It's a brand new day, and as much as President Obama has opened certain Progressive doors, there is much, much, much more to be done. Time to lead the charge in this Leftward direction for a change. It may not have been the right thing to do right after Ronald Reagan, but it's absolutely the correct and smart thing to do now.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
85. Fine, sorry for the epithet, and compliment you on your avatar. On the other hand,
Fri May 13, 2016, 07:57 PM
May 2016

I do think it is big mistake to think that how people feel about Hillary, the Clintons, and triangulating Democrats in general is because of rightwing propaganda. I really think that is nonsense that is spewed by the somewhat paranoid Clinton supporters who don't know or won't brook a valid criticism when one is made.

FBI investigation, for instance, which Hillary chooses to call a "security inquiry". The leader of the investigation just felt it was necessary to clarify that it was an investigation. It's not the Federal Bureau of Inquiry. That is not propaganda. That is the much vaulted reality we talk about around here.

Hillary does plenty on her own to create backlash. And this private server bit - I mean can you honestly say that setting up and using that private server seems either legal, authorized, safe, secure, or wise? I can't.

Furthermore, history will show that Hillary and Bill and the rest of the triangulating Democrats have done much to tarnish the Democratic brand while not delivering the real, meaningful results that the people desperately want. Some Democrats have chosen to support her anyway, beats the hell out of me. I know from experience that it's very likely she still doesn't get the frustration that is fueling this popular movement. Not just among "Libertarians" as you say or "Bernie Bros" as Clinton spokespeople have creatively suggested, but longtime and ardent Democrats, women and men and people of all religions and ethnic backgrounds who are simply fed up at being lied to about how our rights are going to be protected by a Democratic Party that sticks its fingers in our eye whenever it gets a chance.whenever it doesn't need us.

The solution. Quit complaining about all the ill that other people are allegedly doing to Hillary and her campaign, and start cleaning up its act, You know, if that's at all possible. Seize the political will of the people and the moment and include the Sanders supporters in the process. If Hillary and the Democratic Apparatchiks would just realize that the post-Reagan time of triangulating is dead and we are hungry for some red meat Democratic Progressivism, then they would seize the day, likely the nomination, and the election. Fail to do that, the Democratic Party is toast in this news cycle.

Who am I voting for? I am voting for people who act like Democrats in the traditional Democratic Party sense. That's who I vote for.

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