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Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
Thu May 19, 2016, 07:23 PM May 2016

"The Hidden Importance Of The Sanders Voter"

link to The Hidden Importance Of The Sanders Voter; excerpt:

Donald Trump has gained on Hillary Clinton in recent national polls after becoming the presumptive GOP nominee this month. But ... her lack of support from Sanders voters is harming her general election numbers.

According to the most recent YouGov poll, 61 percent of Sanders voters have an unfavorable view of Clinton, against just 38 percent with a favorable one. YouGov has been tracking these numbers for several months, and they’ve gradually gotten worse for Clinton:



... In the YouGov poll, just 55 percent of Sanders supporters said they’d vote for Clinton over Trump in November. However, only 15 percent said they’d vote for Trump. That leaves 30 percent of Sanders voters who say they are undecided, would vote for a third-party candidate or would sit out the election.... Clinton is beating Sanders by 27 percentage points among self-identified Democrats but losing to Sanders by 31 points among voters who call themselves independents but voted in the Democratic primaries..... If Clinton wins over those voters, she’ll gain a few percentage points on Trump in national and swing state polls, and the race will potentially look more like it did in March and April, with Clinton having a fairly comfortable lead over Trump. If not, the general election could come down to the wire.

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"The Hidden Importance Of The Sanders Voter" (Original Post) Attorney in Texas May 2016 OP
I believe that it all depends on the Convention. guillaumeb May 2016 #1
The fight between Obama supporters and Hillary supporters in 2008 was uglier in tone but the dislike Attorney in Texas May 2016 #3
I agree with your first position, guillaumeb May 2016 #6
It appears that both Hillary and the party leaders have realized this. kerry-is-my-prez May 2016 #33
She is miscalculating pmorlan1 May 2016 #31
Cluelessness and lack of good judgment Art_from_Ark May 2016 #32
Did you watch that video w/Cuomo pmorlan1 May 2016 #35
I watched part of it, and, as you noted, it is hard to watch Art_from_Ark May 2016 #36
The Clinton Consensus is "They have no choice, I am their only choice!" JPnoodleman May 2016 #49
She believes this pmorlan1 May 2016 #52
It would be a shame if the DNC pulled a Nevada at the Convention. senz May 2016 #11
I think there will either be unity or chaos. Reason would dictate unity but Hillary's ego may Attorney in Texas May 2016 #24
I just hope senz May 2016 #29
Clinton will not get the independent vote. Skwmom May 2016 #2
sure she will... Fresh_Start May 2016 #4
Independents are NOT pragmatic. Barack_America May 2016 #17
no, you are wrong Fresh_Start May 2016 #18
According to current polling...I'm right. Barack_America May 2016 #19
there is no polling which shows the independents vote enbloc Fresh_Start May 2016 #20
I agree with you, most people will vote for her, but only because they're voting against Trump most JRLeft May 2016 #46
yes, they will be pragmatic Fresh_Start May 2016 #47
They hate both candidates and I agree with them I'm voting for Hillary and think her and JRLeft May 2016 #48
Independents are simply unaffiliated... JPnoodleman May 2016 #50
independents are split Fresh_Start May 2016 #51
Not on her current path, but it's not too late for a course correction. Attorney in Texas May 2016 #9
You can't change the facts. Skwmom May 2016 #10
Achieving something that approached unity would not be easy, but it does not seem impossible yet Attorney in Texas May 2016 #12
Obama won without it so will Clinton uponit7771 May 2016 #15
Obama is a thousand times better than Clinton senz May 2016 #27
OMG supporters of candidate A have unfavorable views of candidate B. Never happened before ever nt msongs May 2016 #5
November won't even hold it if you think this is unfavorable. Aerows May 2016 #8
Hillary and her campaign have stated Aerows May 2016 #7
She won't get my vote. 840high May 2016 #13
Her campaign seems calculated to split the party and lose the general. Vote2016 May 2016 #14
Her campaign is in full Titanic mode Art_from_Ark May 2016 #38
Bookmarked and screen saved uponit7771 May 2016 #16
Knock yourself out. Take 840high May 2016 #21
Holy cow! How many hides does it take to get banned? Vote2016 May 2016 #22
God only knows. That one is a bully. 840high May 2016 #23
I'm sorry you're being bullied that way. senz May 2016 #26
Thank you. 840high May 2016 #42
I've noticed Hill folk bookmarking and screen saving senz May 2016 #25
Not the least bit surprising. merrily May 2016 #30
Thanks, merrily senz May 2016 #41
Thank you senz. Bernie did very much exist for them before he announced. merrily May 2016 #43
Okay, I guess I just hadn't noticed. senz May 2016 #44
Thank you so much! merrily May 2016 #45
despicable, anti-democratic, and desperate amborin May 2016 #40
Inhale everyone, we still have five months. oldandhappy May 2016 #28
Hill Folk have deluded themselves into thinking she can make up the difference w/ "megachurch moms" Warren DeMontague May 2016 #34
I'm curious if we'll see any polling that includes Libertarian and Green candidates. I bet both 3rd Vote2016 May 2016 #37
Hidden????? I don't think it's hiding ThePhilosopher04 May 2016 #39
Unfavorables shoot up with the fraud-ridden AZ primary AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #53
Hillary is not thought of as more honest than Trump. Let THAT sink in. Attorney in Texas May 2016 #54

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. I believe that it all depends on the Convention.
Thu May 19, 2016, 07:28 PM
May 2016

If, for the sake of argument, we assume that HRC is the nominee, will Sanders:

1) Enthusiastically endorse her, or
2) endorse her with qualifications?

If number one, Sanders risks being seen as a phony by some of his followers. If number two, the logical justification would be to prevent a Trump Presidency. But if Sanders can explain his endorsement as a pragmatic thing that might make it acceptable.

And the outcome might also depend on how Sanders can influence the official Democratic platform and positions.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
3. The fight between Obama supporters and Hillary supporters in 2008 was uglier in tone but the dislike
Thu May 19, 2016, 07:41 PM
May 2016

of Hillary by Sanders supporters now seems much more substantive. I am not optimistic about this rift being papered over without a substantive course correction (something dramatically progressive arising at the convention, a Warren-type VP pick, or something along these lines to spark a re-evaluation of Hillary).

I think Hillary is assuming that the awfulness of Trump will fix everything, but she's miscalculating this (just like Cruz and Kasich and the #neverTrump movement failed to realize that a candidate dropping out did not mean that that candidate's supporters would flock to the not-Trump candidate). If she wins the nomination without addressing this, I think we are looking at Democrats turning out at mid-term levels while Republicans turn out at presidential election cycle levels - this is fatal to our entire ticket from the top of the ballot to the bottom.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
6. I agree with your first position,
Thu May 19, 2016, 07:45 PM
May 2016

and hope you are incorrect in your second. If, a big word, HRC sees that Sanders has tapped into a significant feeling in the electorate, one would hope that she is intelligent enough to realize that she must adjust her positions to reflect this feeling.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
31. She is miscalculating
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:41 AM
May 2016

because she has bad judgement. She can't even get this right. I watched her interview with Cuomo today and she is clueless.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
35. Did you watch that video w/Cuomo
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:49 AM
May 2016

If you haven't you need to do so. It's really hard to watch because....it's Hillary...but she thinks everything is hunky dory. They can't even get a fair convention put together and they think Bernie voters are going to come running and embrace her. She talked in the video about how important it is to give Bernie supporters a voice....I about fell off the couch. She is either delusional or her campaign is incompetent in not advising her what's going on. is right.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
36. I watched part of it, and, as you noted, it is hard to watch
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:52 AM
May 2016

I'll try to watch the rest of it after my stomach has recovered.

JPnoodleman

(454 posts)
49. The Clinton Consensus is "They have no choice, I am their only choice!"
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:31 AM
May 2016

Which is factually incorrect, we can simply not vote Democrat if that is her course of action.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
52. She believes this
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:40 AM
May 2016

and she couldn't be more wrong. Her lack of good judgement in this campaign speaks volumes. These people are shooting themselves in the foot and don't even have a clue that their doing it despite being told repeatedly that they are. It defies logic.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
11. It would be a shame if the DNC pulled a Nevada at the Convention.
Thu May 19, 2016, 07:56 PM
May 2016

In that case, we might see ...

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
24. I think there will either be unity or chaos. Reason would dictate unity but Hillary's ego may
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:44 PM
May 2016

dictate chaos.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
29. I just hope
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:17 AM
May 2016

the Bernie people will keep their cool and make their extremely important points calmly and firmly, knowing they are on the higher plane, which they will be.

Because the media will be watching and people will be tweeting.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
17. Independents are NOT pragmatic.
Thu May 19, 2016, 09:55 PM
May 2016

Independents are angry, dissatisfied voters. And this year, their anger is directed at "establishment" candidates, regardless of party.

Hillary will never win them.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
18. no, you are wrong
Thu May 19, 2016, 10:03 PM
May 2016

some independents will be bernie or busters
other independents will be pro Trump
and other independents will be pro Clinton
and other independents will be anyone but Trump
and other independents will be anyone but Clinton

and if bernie were the nominee, there would be independents who would be anyone but Sanders.

Independents are not one block who votes together.
And they never have been.

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
46. I agree with you, most people will vote for her, but only because they're voting against Trump most
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:02 AM
May 2016

people hate her, but despise Trump. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
48. They hate both candidates and I agree with them I'm voting for Hillary and think her and
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:29 AM
May 2016

Trump are shitty choices.

JPnoodleman

(454 posts)
50. Independents are simply unaffiliated...
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:33 AM
May 2016

Its a great lie that they are all centrists sitting in some valley between two camps.

Trump actually does well with disaffected voters as an example. A wake up call if you will.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
51. independents are split
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:35 AM
May 2016

the vast majority are in partisans who don't want to be assigned to a party even though they vote the same as the respective party they are aligned with.

A minority who actually swing vote.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
27. Obama is a thousand times better than Clinton
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:13 AM
May 2016

and I am sure he knows it. He knows what she is.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
8. November won't even hold it if you think this is unfavorable.
Thu May 19, 2016, 07:51 PM
May 2016

I'll say what I always said I will:

[font size=4 color=maroon] We told you so! [/font]

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
7. Hillary and her campaign have stated
Thu May 19, 2016, 07:49 PM
May 2016

up front and plain that they neither need Bernie Sanders voters or want us.

That is going to be the dead ox and the wagon it was carrying dragging her race through the meat and bones GE.

Half of the Democratic constituency is neither motivated by her, or sure that she isn't corrupt.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
26. I'm sorry you're being bullied that way.
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:12 AM
May 2016

I've seen them doing it to others. They are so amazingly hateful.

Don't let their ugliness bother you.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
25. I've noticed Hill folk bookmarking and screen saving
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:09 AM
May 2016

any comment they think they can use to get other DUers banned.

It is in keeping with months and months of despicable behavior revealing the ugliest of motivations, the lowest of character. I feel sorry for the perps, having to be what they are.

Who knows, maybe these ugly, hateful actions will end up affecting your precious candidate and you will have no one but yourselves to blame.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
41. Thanks, merrily
Fri May 20, 2016, 01:47 AM
May 2016

well-written and true with some excellent advice for Bernistas. One little caveat -- the Berniebutter phenomenon couldn't go back to 2014 because he didn't exist for Hill supporters until after he announced, which was mid-spring 2015.

I just loathe the games they play, their dishonesty. They constantly shock me. No wonder they support whom they do.

I'm so glad to be with the good peeps

merrily

(45,251 posts)
43. Thank you senz. Bernie did very much exist for them before he announced.
Fri May 20, 2016, 02:39 AM
May 2016

For one thing, there was something of a draft Bernie movement in 2012, which was also right about the time talking heads began saying Hillary was inevitable. So I am sure he was on the list of potential threats to a Hillary candidacy from then Besides, any Democrat thinking of entering a primary has to look to his or her left. The center and the right of the Party sure ain't going to defeat a center right candidate or even a DINO. This is one of the reasons why Democrats discredit liberals every chance they get.

Anyway, there was the mild 2012 draft movement. Then there was another "Tell Bernie Sanders you want him to run in 2016 online petition. Then Bernie himself announced he was exploring his options. that was over a year before he made his April 30, 2015 announcement. Dissing of Bernie by the usual suspects was well underway in 2014. My first recollection of recognizing Bernie Butter for what it was occurred, I think around the fall or winter of 2014.

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
28. Inhale everyone, we still have five months.
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:15 AM
May 2016

Polls will be different after the conventions. I know the clinton folk have wanted the election over and the inauguration scheduled since last March. Pant Pant, we will get there one day at a time.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
34. Hill Folk have deluded themselves into thinking she can make up the difference w/ "megachurch moms"
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:48 AM
May 2016

Maybe the idea is that they'll be so horrified at Melania Trump's semi-nude photo shoot from a couple decades ago, they'll outrageeeeeeee themselves right into Hillary's corner.

It seems a bit.... delusional, frankly. Whether or not Hillary has spent decades praying with "The Family", the religious right is not going to switch over to her side.

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
37. I'm curious if we'll see any polling that includes Libertarian and Green candidates. I bet both 3rd
Fri May 20, 2016, 01:33 AM
May 2016

parties beat expectations.

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
53. Unfavorables shoot up with the fraud-ridden AZ primary
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:41 AM
May 2016

and shoot up even faster with the debacle in NY

confirms my thesis: "It's the election fraud, stupid!"

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