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pinebox

(5,761 posts)
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:18 AM May 2016

Bernie Sanders’ Real ‘Political Revolution’ Could Happen This Fall

ATTENTION: READ PLEASE FIRST I am NOT condoning this at all. It is strictly being posted for news & discussion in GDP & that is it.

Keep in mind this isn't a RW site, in fact, it's Canadian.
What do you all think of this?

Bernie Sanders’ Real ‘Political Revolution’ Could Happen This Fall: Sanders, Green Party’s Presidential Candidate?

The push to make Sanders the Green Party’s presidential candidate

Philadelphia – Bernie Sanders, to the consternation of critics in the Democratic Party, pundits in the corporate media, and purists on the hard left, has accomplished an amazing thing. Up against Hillary Clinton, surely the biggest, best-funded corporate-backed candidate the Democratic leadership has run since Walter Mondale lost to Ronald Reagan in 1984 over three decades ago, the once obscure independent Vermont senator has battled Clinton to almost a draw, down by only some 319 delegates with nearly 900 to go (not counting the corrupt “super delegates” chosen for their fealty to party leaders, not by primary or caucus voting.)

By doing this well, as a proudly declared “democratic socialist” who on the stump has been denouncing the corruption of both the US political and economic systems, and as a candidate who has refused to take corporate money or money from big, powerful donors, instead successfully funding his campaign with only small two and three-digit donations from his supporters, Sanders has exposed not just his opponent, Hillary Clinton, but the entire Democratic Party leadership and most of its elected officials as nothing but hired corporate tools posing as progressive advocates of the people.

But now Sanders faces a truly momentous choice. Defeated by the combined assault of a pro-corporate mass media and by the machinations of the Democratic Party leadership — machinations both long-established with the intent of defeating upstarts and outsiders, like front-loading conservative southern states in the primary schedule, and current, like scheduling only a few early candidate debates and then slotting them at times (like opposite the Super Bowl) when few would be watching them — Sanders knows that barring some major surprise like a federal indictment of Clinton, a market collapse, or perhaps a leak of the transcripts of Clinton’s highly-paid but still secret speeches to some of the nation’s biggest banks, he is not going to win the Democratic nomination.

So does he, after spending months hammering home the reality that Clinton is the bought-and-paid candidate of the the banks, the arms industry, the oil industry and the medical-industrial complex, and after enduring endless lies about his own record spouted by Clinton and her surrogates, go ahead and endorse her as the party’s standard bearer for the general election? Does he walk away and return quietly to Vermont? Or does he instead continue to fight for his “political revolution” by another route?

The first and even the second option would mean the demise of his so-called “political revolution.” A Sanders endorsement of Clinton at this point would be a pathetic betrayal of all the energy and money that his fired-up backers have poured into this extraordinary campaign, and it would send a message that fighting against the nation’s ruling elite is impossible, at least through the ballot box. It would also be pointless. Some 25-30 percent of Sanders backers, according to pollsters, have made it clear that they will not support Clinton no matter what — including if Sanders were to endorse her. That in itself could be enough to doom her candidacy. Furthermore, after all his well-grounded attacks on the corrupt funding of her campaign, and of her horrific record as senator and secretary of state, any endorsement he made would be seen as a joke. He would spend the next three and a half months of the general election running from reporters asking him if he “takes back” the things he had said about her earlier — her crooked speech fees from Goldman Sachs and other big banks, her default advocacy of disastrous wars in Iraq, Libya, Syria and elsewhere, etc. Most seriously, endorsing Hillary after all that earnest, heartfelt campaigning, would be a huge blow to his millions of backers and his “movement.”

More at link http://www.globalresearch.ca/bernie-sanders-real-political-revolution-could-happen-this-fall-sanders-green-partys-presidential-candidate/5522636
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bernie Sanders’ Real ‘Political Revolution’ Could Happen This Fall (Original Post) pinebox May 2016 OP
Interesting points chwaliszewski May 2016 #1
It really is an interesting topic for conversation. pinebox May 2016 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #17
The long shot black guy won in 08 against the same system Sanders is losing in and he's whining abou uponit7771 May 2016 #3
It won't happen and the movement is bigger than this election cycle. JRLeft May 2016 #4
Did you read first reply? pinebox May 2016 #5
Yes I did and like I said it doesn't matter what he does. JRLeft May 2016 #9
Sure they are pinebox May 2016 #10
Most of them will though and I can't blame the ones who won't. JRLeft May 2016 #13
Personally I don't think most will pinebox May 2016 #18
It wouldn't bother me if most of them didn't. JRLeft May 2016 #20
Same pinebox May 2016 #21
... LexVegas May 2016 #6
Any comment? Anything? Bueller? pinebox May 2016 #7
The self-destruction is delightful. nt LexVegas May 2016 #8
Self destruction? pinebox May 2016 #12
Your first reply is saying Bernie will be a hypocrite when he endorses Clinton....which he will. LexVegas May 2016 #15
I'm not sure he will pinebox May 2016 #19
This comment just demonstrates that you actually are condoning third party. barrow-wight May 2016 #24
Are you aware of the rules? pinebox May 2016 #30
The only Smurfs I know anything about are the cartoons. barrow-wight May 2016 #40
Why does the Hillary symbol have a red arrow pointing to the right? chwaliszewski May 2016 #14
Hey, thanks for pointing that out! brooklynite May 2016 #23
I realize you're being facetious, but... chwaliszewski May 2016 #29
No. Just callow, sore winnerism. chwaliszewski May 2016 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #16
+1 Independents and Bernie Rs would have no problem with jwirr May 2016 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #36
Exactly. jwirr May 2016 #39
Speculation by a Canadian blog, backed up with no evidence. brooklynite May 2016 #22
If he lost, that would be the end of his Senate career. I am so torn on this. He said he GreenPartyVoter May 2016 #25
I semi- disagree pinebox May 2016 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #37
Only makes sense if there is a 4th party candidate lapfog_1 May 2016 #26
Actually if there is nobody who wins 270 then the Republican House picks. forjusticethunders May 2016 #27
If we know whats good for us madokie May 2016 #28
With Clinton as a running mate, even! Orsino May 2016 #32
Pinebox. Great post. JudyM May 2016 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Colors May 2016 #38
It lost me at the blanket statement that all superdelegates are corrupt. apnu May 2016 #35

chwaliszewski

(1,514 posts)
1. Interesting points
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:29 AM
May 2016

If he truly walks the talk, he keeps this movement going, even after Hillary is probably named the Dem-nom. By endorsing her, even if it's to keep Trump out of the White House, he will be endorsing her past actions as well. That, in my opinion, would be hypocritical of him.

Response to chwaliszewski (Reply #1)

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
3. The long shot black guy won in 08 against the same system Sanders is losing in and he's whining abou
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:32 AM
May 2016

... about it with this corporate media CT shit.

There's no revolution, Sanders will go into the back ground and be angry and the midterms will have the same people not vote like they did the last time

We'll see...

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
9. Yes I did and like I said it doesn't matter what he does.
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:38 AM
May 2016

The movement won't die no matter what he does. This movement is already prepping for the midterms.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
10. Sure they are
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:40 AM
May 2016

but the movement is also not voting for Hillary.

Many will vote Bernie Or Bust or vote Green. I think what we saw in NV could potentially give rise to a very big 3rd party too. Maybe.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
19. I'm not sure he will
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:59 AM
May 2016

We'll see in the end won't we but regardless, many Bernie supporters will never vote for Hillary. The movement isn't about Bernie though, it's about us and giving people a fair shot which has been lost over the years.

barrow-wight

(744 posts)
24. This comment just demonstrates that you actually are condoning third party.
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:12 AM
May 2016

How lovely that you dance around the rules here.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
30. Are you aware of the rules?
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:01 PM
May 2016

After what, a 130 posts & joining 4 days ago, I'm unsure you are.
Unless of course you're a "Smurf". Not that I especially expect you to know what that means but whatever.

I'm sorry if you dislike facts and how Hillary is a weak candidate in a GE. Not my problem.

barrow-wight

(744 posts)
40. The only Smurfs I know anything about are the cartoons.
Fri May 20, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

I may be new but I saw that rule rather quickly.

chwaliszewski

(1,514 posts)
14. Why does the Hillary symbol have a red arrow pointing to the right?
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:41 AM
May 2016

Shouldn't it be a blue arrow pointing to the left?

chwaliszewski

(1,514 posts)
29. I realize you're being facetious, but...
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:50 AM
May 2016

seriously, what were they thinking when they designed that? SMH

chwaliszewski

(1,514 posts)
11. No. Just callow, sore winnerism.
Fri May 20, 2016, 10:40 AM
May 2016

Kind of like that kid on The Simpsons who laughs. "Ha, ha!" Karma is a bitch, though. Just saying.

Response to pinebox (Original post)

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
34. +1 Independents and Bernie Rs would have no problem with
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:59 PM
May 2016

this so we are talking only about how the registered Democrats feel about it.

The party is already torn apart by the issues mentioned in the article. Many members have had it. They will have little problem following Bernie and probably already respect the green party.

I have a feeling that what the foreign countries are telling us is some very good advice.

The truth is that if we follow Hillary she is either going to keep us where we are at or take us further into the corporate world of the 1%. That is not going to do any of us or our movement any good and it may do more harm.

It is a very good article. Thank you Canada.

Response to jwirr (Reply #34)

GreenPartyVoter

(72,377 posts)
25. If he lost, that would be the end of his Senate career. I am so torn on this. He said he
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:18 AM
May 2016

would support the Dem nominee, but after everything that has has happened with the debates, voter enrollments, vote counting and other shenanigans, it makes me wonder. He is a man of his word, but it's so unfair to be bound by ethics that others don't have!

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
31. I semi- disagree
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:04 PM
May 2016

You have to remember, Bernie is an (I) basically and I think many would expect that of him.
In the end, who really knows. It sure makes for good conversation!

Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #25)

lapfog_1

(29,166 posts)
26. Only makes sense if there is a 4th party candidate
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:21 AM
May 2016

Someone from the conservative side... Ted Cruz or similar.

But even should Bernie win in such a 4 way race... he would be a weak President representing only 25 percent or so of the people voting.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
27. Actually if there is nobody who wins 270 then the Republican House picks.
Fri May 20, 2016, 11:28 AM
May 2016

At that point, enjoy President Kasich or fighting a Constitutional crisis, possibly in the streets.

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
33. Pinebox. Great post.
Fri May 20, 2016, 12:06 PM
May 2016

I'd thought about this before even though I've been an ardent dem my whole life. This time around, the party is betraying its own democratic principles. I am not so narrow-mindedly tribal as to put party above principles.

What this comes down to for me: what are our best chances for rooting out the big money/crony-power corruption that has led to spending $ on wars and subsidizing big biz instead of on strengthening our society and protecting the planet?

Among the more salient points in the article for me were 1) the symbolic caving to the imperviousness/omnipotence of corporate/political corruption if he endorses Clinton and 2) he would've gotten more votes than her if, as in the GE, the "closed" and other registration restrictions hadn't constrained so many of his supporters.

Re: that 2nd point, I see her electability on its own terms as about to start dropping, independently of either Sanders or tRump. Coming into view on the nearing horizon: front page news of gross negligence re:her unsecured server, at a minimum (according to a combo of statements from DOJ, the FOIA judge and formerly highly ranking federal officials and legal experts). Moving forward, a likely further decline in her numbers during the GE, when wave after wave of bad news is likely regarding the Foundation's corruption being tied to her actions as SOS. Moreover, Billy-boy's deplorable record with women is going to alienate many women from her side with the specter of him in the White House. In sum: my view is that since she is barely keeping up with tRump now and he is going to become better presented as the GE moves forward (as he aligns and gets primped by the GOP) she will lose to tRump.

So, even if I weren't lined up with Bernie, I hope I would see that he is the more electable dem candidate in the GE. If the superdels don't see this, or are too politically cowardly to break rank and nominate him, who becomes POTUS: tRump.

Putting this together: if Bernie were to run as a Green, he would get:
- the small percentage Green-or-bust vote,
- the Bernie-or-bust vote,
- huge percentage of the under-45 vote
- a large swath of the indie vote (many who would otherwise vote for tRump over Clinton),
- a large swath of rethugs who can't stomach tRump (or think he'll hurt the party - there are many now, including many who voted for Cruz, etc) and would otherwise vote for Clinton
- a lot of Dems who voted for Clinton because they didn't really know about Bernie or believed her hype that she was more electable/effective
- a growing number of women who voted for her but become alienated by Bill's predatory history

I can see Bernie beating both of them. I loathe the Nader effect but what we are looking at in 2016 is a different set of candidates altogether -2 of the least popular and both under legal scrutiny - and a live, passionate and principled movement.

Response to JudyM (Reply #33)

apnu

(8,722 posts)
35. It lost me at the blanket statement that all superdelegates are corrupt.
Fri May 20, 2016, 01:03 PM
May 2016

That's ridiculous. Didn't read past it.

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