Bernie: He owes us an answer

[CrowCityDem]

Bernie Sanders has spent much of the last month and a half openly complaining to anyone who will listen that the problem with the primary process is that not enough people are able to participate. He practically demanded that the party open every state's primary, despite not being in control of them.

Last night, for the second time, a state that Bernie won by a large margin in a caucus held a non-binding primary. And for the second time, there was a massive swing in support, and Bernie lost.

Bernie is famous for saying "we win when voter turnout is high". Nebraska and Washington have now proven that to be a lie.

If Bernie honestly believes in what he says about opening up the system, he owes us an answer for why he is silent on caucuses, when it has now been twice proven that he only won some of his biggest victories because of a system that makes voting too hard for most people.

He can't remain silent anymore. We must demand he address this issue.

[Matt_in_STL]

1. First, he doesn't owe you anything, so there's that.

Second, see my point in the title above.

[merrily]

3. Sure doesn't owe the party a thing.

[roguevalley]

117. The party owes him a fair chance but with GOP SUPER PAC ENDORSED Schultz

and STILL WAITING FOR YOUR SPEECHES, DOESN'T COOPERATE WITH EMAIL INVESTIGATIONS, LOVES WAR AND MAYHEM HRC in charge, don't hold your breath.

[asuhornets]

5. Actually he owes the party some loyalty for a change...nt

[tazkcmo]

10. Bull sh*t

He's been voting with Dems since he entered politics. He doesn't owe anybody anything. Entitlement is the hallmark of the Clinton campaign. Entitled to the nomination. Entitled to no review of position shifts, outright lies, FBI investigations are anything else that remotely resembles accountability. Hell, the campaign is already blaming Sanders supporters for her eventual loss to Trump while absolving the Inevitable One of all responsibility for being a poor candidate.

[asuhornets]

12. How can your candidate be a better candidate when you don't hold his feet to fire..

Bernie Sanders has made plenty of misstep and his supporters make excuses for him. That's not helping him

[bahrbearian]

19. Your Candidate "I made a mistake" I made a mistake, I made a mistake...that's what hurts.

[asuhornets]

23. At least Hiilary Clinton can own up to her mistakes...and her supporters will let her know

when she messed up.

[Silver_Witch]

24. ROLFing

Where was it that years u saw that! Please share.

[asuhornets]

28. That's why Sanders is losing and he and his supporters have no idea why?

[bahrbearian]

25. Problem is, the mistakes she makes gets people killed, or lose their homes apologies don't fix that!

[asuhornets]

31. None of what you are talking has anything to do with Hillary.

Name one thing about Sanders that you think he needs to improve on?

[bahrbearian]

39. Well from your perspective I guess he needs to vote for more wars, since there is no

consequence. "I made a mistake, Sorry about your Daddy little girl, there, there all better now."

[asuhornets]

52. You don't want to at least know why Sanders lost?

[bahrbearian]

55. Lost what , did HRC change the rules.

[840high]

103. You don't hold Hillary

responsible for anything. It's always rw talking points according to you.

[asuhornets]

118. She made a mistake with the emails-she admitted that--she gave others ammonitions to use against her

She broke no laws--other SOS have done the exact same thing. Oh she's made plenty mistakes as we all have , but that does not mean she should not be president.

[merrily]

2. His biggest victories were Oregon and Vermont.

[CrowCityDem]

7. Not in terms of delegates. If WA held a primary the first time, Hillary would have clinched already.

[bahrbearian]

22. Bull Shit , we've been told for six weeks after the Caucus that the primary won't count now you

now it to count . Typical Clinton

[CrowCityDem]

27. I'm not calling for it to count. I'm simply saying if these caucuses were primaries...

Bernie would already be back in Vermont, preparing his grill for the summer cookout season, since he wouldn't be running anymore.

[bahrbearian]

33. Clintonite's were to lazy to caucus, they sit at home and Mail in their ballots. Don't have time to

talk to their Neighbors.

[CrowCityDem]

35. So only caucus votes are real votes?

[bahrbearian]

40. No you play by the rules, something HRC should understand, Oh wait, rules for Clinton don't apply.

[LisaM]

41. Excuse me? Do you live in Washington?

The caucus was held on Easter weekend. There were very few permissible excuses for not attending and things like not having transportation or being a caregiver were not included. In some cases it involved ten hours of committment. The experience was also exceedingly unpleasant for Hillary supporters, just as it was in 2008 and by all accounts got worse at the county conventions. It has nothing to do with being lazy and comments like this are really unhelpful.

[bahrbearian]

49. I'm disabled I made it , we've been told for six weeks after the Caucus that the primary won't

count , now you want to count it. My caucus lasted 1 hour. I would have preferred a Primary but its the rules.

[LisaM]

54. Ummm...I didn't say I thought we should count it.

I am not sure where you extrapolated that. And if yours only took an hour, you were lucky. Me, I was still pissed about being yelled at by my own neighbors in 2008 and didn't relish a replay this time. I don't think intimidation should be part of the political process, but we will have to disagree on that.

[bahrbearian]

58. So you didn't caucus this year ? Now you want to change the rules. Or pretend the caucus

[bahrbearian]

59. So you didn't caucus this year? Now you want to change the rules. Or pretend the caucus don't matter

[LisaM]

60. I sent in an affidavit. But I know more than a few Hillary voters

who chose not to participate. I have actually been advocating for a primary since 1988 and I would still prefer it. I never liked the caucus to begin with but I have detested them since my 2008 experience, which was really upsetting. Your aggressive attitude and lies about my comments and participation are just proving my points.

[lunamagica]

107. Good for you. But you don't talk for all disabled and elderly. And certanly not for all people who

could not take the time from work, or afford a babysitter.

Someone posted today that they Caucused for FOUR DAYS. Who has the time for that? Minorities and the working class don't have such luxuries.

Caucasus are the most undemocratic process that exist, as Nebraska and Washington proves. But I guess undemocratic is OK as long as Sanders wins

[TwilightZone]

61. Oregon is 100% mail-in.

I guess Sanders supporters are just as lazy, if not more so, hmm?

This place just keeps getting funnier.

[bahrbearian]

63. Washington is 100% mail in too, and a primary would be better , but the Dem Party of Wash.

wants caucus's, Now HRC doesn't like that, "Lets change the out come of a system we endorsed."

"This place just keeps getting funnier." "Bernie isn't Playing by the rules "

[Matt_in_STL]

29. Very typical - see Michigan and Florida, 2008

[sufrommich]

4. Can you imagine the endless conspiracy theories

that would be generated by Sanders supporters if Clinton had won the caucus and lost the popular vote?

[Cobalt Violet]

37. well that didn't happen so it will have to stay in your little imagination.

[B Calm]

6. Hillary owes us what she said to the Wall Street Banksters.

[leftinportland]

8. You really need to focus on your own candidate.

Had Washington held only a primary and not a caucus and as an after thought a non-binding primary, the results would have been different.

If Washington only held a primary the results would most likely mirror Oregon where Sanders won by 13%.

This is the process In Washington...deal with it. You really need to focus on your candidate and try and deal with all her negatives because she doesn't look real good when pitted against Trimp in the General.

[CrowCityDem]

15. "This is the process... deal with it." Tell that to Bernie.

[LisaM]

46. It is an unfair and unpleasant process.

It couldn't be more undemocratic as the turnout proved. I will be calling the state Democratic party today.

[Matt_in_STL]

77. If you didn't like it you have had years to complain and change it.

I'll look up the rest of the Hillary supporter responses to this issue in my handbook later.

[LisaM]

83. The party, for some reason, has not been amenable to changing it. People have tried.

And yes, I am a paid up member of my district Democratic party, so I feel that I should have a voice. I've participated in the caucuses here since 1992 and I can tell you that they have gotten progressively worse. I don't particularly like being harangued for voting my choice and I didn't like seeing the really ugly side of one of my neighbors back in 2008. I'm sure people who voted for the winning candidate have a different story to tell - it was probably fun for them - but people shouldn't have to dread going to vote and it also shouldn't involve a 10-12 hour commitment. One of my friends said that at her county convention, they had to sit through 800 short speeches.

[Matt_in_STL]

87. So, in the past 8 years, what have you personally done to change the process?

Did you gather signatures? Did you attend meetings and rail against caucuses?

[floppyboo]

104. I heard on another thread from a WA resident

that a referendum was held and it was voted to ditch the caucuses, but the state Dem. party insisted on holding caucuses anyways. So, looks like you can do ALOT - Vote successfully to change the rules - and be ignored anyways.

[Matt_in_STL]

106. Then vote to change the party heads. If the party won't do what you want, vote them out.

[LisaM]

114. True. What will I do today?

I'll call them and point out the numbers. I'm not sure what you think people can do about it. They're a private organization and not bound by a referendum. You'd think the numbers alone would convince them. I think they hang on to it because of tradition, but they've gotten out of hand. My first one had 9 people sitting around in chairs in a circle and no one changed anyone's mind and then we all left. The last two have been in rooms that were way too small and people were obstreperous and, at least in 2008, refused to go through all the housekeeping details needed in the precincts and just demanded to vote right away. And bullying was allowed. Having affidavits available was a step forward, but there were too few reasons allowed.

[Skwmom]

9. There was only one team playing Clinton. Bernie owes no explanation for the false narrative Clinton

is trying to sell.

Clinton has the party machine to turnout the vote in a non-binding primary while Bernie has turned his attention to the states he is actually competing in.

The Clinton Candidacy - Nothing but smoke and mirrors.

[LexVegas]

11. I think what he meant to say was "we win when white voter turnout is high". nt

[bvf]

13. You are owed zilch.

I, on the other hand, am still owed an explanation about Bosnian sniper fire, for-profit prisons, the thousands dead as a result of the Iraq war, praise of Nancy Reagan's noble work on the AIDS epidemic, exportation of fracking, cheerleading welfare "reform," rhetoric intended to subvert Kerry's Iran deal, imprisonment of marijuana users, militarization of municipal police forces, what she's said to Wall Street execs behind closed doors at six figures a pop, etc.

I don't hold her husband's blow jobs against her. That was all the asshole's own fault. (But it certanly helped Bush steal the 2000 election.)

[DisgustipatedinCA]

14. I hope you and your demands have a nice day.

[Doctor_J]

16. .

[Orsino]

17. It's not a lie.

Just a statistical probability.

[LWolf]

18. What a crock of shit.

All the answers that Clinton supporters demand are trivial, irrelevant, and an obvious distraction.

It's Washington Democrats that determined to hold both a caucus and a primary, but to use the caucus results to determine delegates. Sanders doesn't owe any answers about that.

[hrmjustin]

20. They had second thoughts about Bernie.

[frylock]

75. bleep blorp

[hrmjustin]

82. Aww ain't you cute!

[frylock]

84. My ma sez that I'm pretty.

[hrmjustin]

85. She was being nice.

[frylock]

88. Of course. She's a real nice, classy lady.

You might could follow suit.

[hrmjustin]

89. Lead by example.

[frylock]

90. I don't throw shit. I just scrape it off and wipe it in the thrower's face.

[hrmjustin]

92. Well that was not the case today.

But do go on if you feel the need to justify yourself.

[frylock]

93. bleep blorp was in response to your repeated talking point.

Seen you post it three or four times already this morning.

[hrmjustin]

94. Following me?

[frylock]

95. Hard not to.

I open a thread and there you are repeating Brocking points.

[hrmjustin]

96. How said you are giving into peer pressure!

[frylock]

98. Hunh?

[hrmjustin]

99. Use your great power of deduction.

[frylock]

100. Well, this has been productive.

[hrmjustin]

102. You came looking to start in with me.

I never look for you.

[frylock]

109. I start in with the bullcrap posts.

Don't care who posts them.

[hrmjustin]

111. If you say so.

[frylock]

112. I think I just did.

[hrmjustin]

113. That is a matter of opinion.

Anything else?

[frylock]

115. Nope. My work is done here.

Have a lovely day.

[hrmjustin]

116. Not much to show for it.

But enjoy yours as well.

Cheers!

[Surya Gayatri]

21. A time-warped 60s radical, who is either ignorant of the primary process or just plain disingenuous.

A slippery, forked-tongue fraud who slithers off when confronted with tough questions.

Don't expect any response to this conundrum any time soon.

[brentspeak]

26. How much do these Brock-bots get for this B.S?

[morningfog]

30. This is too fucking stupid. Take your demands and...

[drray23]

32. Bernie is favored in caucuses

Because it is inherently a flawed process. In a caucus, you have no privacy for your vote, you can and do get harassed by other people to change your vote. Bernie's young supporters are very adept at bullying others to vote for him. If you are a millennial, I would imagine it is pretty hard to tell your peers you are supporting Hillary.

We have seen how Sander's supporters behave in past events, most notably at the Nevada convention. Whether or not chairs were actually thrown,there is no denying it was an ugly chaotic process with angry people shouting insults at fellow democrats.

[trudyco]

64. Lies

Caucuses at least have the advantage that the vote counting can't be tampered with mostly (the aggregating of votes can, apparently, as witnessed by the Colorado state DNC).

None of the things you said happened in the caucuses I've been in, closed caucuses in my state. None. The sites have been understaffed and overcrowded but the excitement and passion, the nice polite speeches people give to persuade the undecideds... is just the BEST experience of democracy one can have. Nobody feels pushed around or bullied! People even cheered for Democrats in general at the end of the last one I went to. There is nothing more exhilarating. I don't think you've ever been to a caucus. You are just spouting talking points you know nothing about. I watched 40 year olds help steady the walk of 80 plus year olds as they waited in line. I watched 20 somethings pull up their van to let out a 60 something relative with a crutch get to the front of the line and everybody in the front helped them. Democrats are nice people. Americans are nice people. I'm really sick of Correct the Record BTW. They think we are stupid.

I actually think nobody cares about vote privacy, especially in the primaries. There is barely any evidence of voter fraud but plenty of evidence of election fraud. We could do primaries with computer vote counting if everybody picked a random NUMBERED ballot id, paper trail, voter gets a receipt with ballot id. They go to a separate room or section of existing room where they voted and ten minutes later or so they can watch up on a big screen their vote, identified by the ballot id, being added to the totals. The vote counting is open to poll watchers of all participating candidates as well as the voters who just voted and it is recorded so a voter may check their vote later, identified by the voter id, on the internet. Complaints can be handled by the poll watcher for their candidate, or an 800 number for everybody, or a website for those checking their vote getting counted online.

Then the count has a random sample audit which is publicly displayed to make sure the computer counts matched the paper hand counts. Nothing is official till all votes are counted and counting verified, complaints resolved. No more provisional ballots not being counted.

Both primaries and GE should be monitored by the UN elections integrity and there should be exit polls. Voting for both primaries and GE should be a holiday and every elementary school should be a poll site, unless it is very rural and then it's the high school. Same day registration. Party affiliation can be changed up to two weeks ahead, voter notified by all methods available (phone call, mail, email, text message). They get a notification at the two week mark of what party they are (or no party) so they have two weeks to fix any "mistakes". Felons get to vote after they've served their sentence. Homeless may use the address of their preferred shelter or soup kitchen to sign up. You could have early voting, with the same set up, on weekends prior to the holiday vote day.

If we are a democracy then we should be promoting voter participation and vote counting integrity. Real Democrats get this.

[Thinkingabout]

86. The Chair was thrown under the bus.

[pangaia]

34. You DEMAND? Oh, that is rich. Who is WE?

[dchill]

36. Why weren't Clinton supporters motivated enough...

to vote in the one that actually counted? Do we not understand the meaning of "non-binding?"

[LisaM]

50. Because you don't just vote.

The 2008 caucuses were bad enough. Most of the Hillary voters I know didn't care to be bullied again this time. I am glad a lot of us made their opinion known in the primary, even though it didn't count.

[hellofromreddit]

38. That non-binding primary is not an unbiased sample

You can't make any meaningful inferences from it.

[trudyco]

42. Given the suspicious nature of vote count versus exit poll

I won't believe she won Washington without cheating unless you can show me her vote count was at least within the MOE of exit polls. If not, it's most likely she is cheating just like Bush did in 2000, 2004 and like she has done in all the other states with primaries.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Why does Washington State have a caucus? Because the Democratic Party sued the State to

insist upon that caucus after the people voted to hold a primary by mail. If you don't like that caucus, your criticism is criticism of the Democratic Party's choices in Washington State.
Hillary supporters do lots of big talk about how they are very loyal to the Party but in reality they complain and criticize the Party constantly as the OP is doing here. The OP expects Bernie to lecture the Party about their caucus, but if he did the OP would attack Bernie for being critical of the Party. It's a loopy, circuitous Lewis Carroll sort of thing.

[CrowCityDem]

47. I'm asking Bernie to be consistent.

He's been railing for months about how unfair everything is.... except for caucuses. When we now have two states of evidence showing how different the results are when there is a primary, he has been SILENT. That's unacceptable, since this is a narrative he's been driving.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. And yet your complaints are with choices made by the Democratic Party. Not by Bernie.

Look, the Washington Primary is non binding. They already made their choice using the method selected by the Democratic Party. The outcome of the afterthought, non binding Primary is legally meaningless and impossible to quantify because most humans will not bother to cast a vote that is not in fact a vote.
Why are YOU silent as the Democratic Party insists on caucuses over primaries, they sued the State to get that caucus. If no one stops them, they will do it again next time.

I note you ignore every point made to you. I can see why you'd do that, you have no foundation to your arguments.

[CrowCityDem]

56. I wasn't complaining that there was a caucus.

I'm complaining about the fact that Bernie, despite his screaming about every other aspect of the system that he thinks is unfair, never says a word about caucuses, even when there is now clear evidence that they alter the outcomes. Unless he says something forceful about them (even though it's already too late), I can't take anything he says about 'fairness' seriously, because he's only complaining and whining about the things that don't give him an advantage.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. That's hilarious. Sorry, it's just outlandish.

It's nonsensical.

[CrowCityDem]

67. Yes, Bernie's whining is hilarious and outlandish.

[LisaM]

66. I am very critical of the state Democratic party in this case.

I don't know why they persist in clinging to the caucuses. This year was particularly annoying because it was held on Easter weekend.

[Autumn]

44. Bernie owes you nothing, not one fucking thing.

[seabeyond]

45. The non Democrat complaining about a process all the Democrats have participated in without griping.

There is nothing special about Sanders and no reason for all of our primary be adapted to him. How entitled and privilege he feels.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. Please note that the OP is demanding that Bernie complain about caucus systems in WA

which is in place entirely because the Democratic Party insisted upon it and litigated against the State to continue when Washington's voters wanted to hold a primary by mail instead.
The OP is complaining about Democratic Party policy, choices and initiatives and is asking that Bernie complain as well. Bernie is not complaining about Washington, the OP is.

[seabeyond]

69. I don't think that is the gest of the OP.

[LisaM]

70. The OP is just pointing out Bernie's hypocrisy.

The caucus system has been hugely beneficial to him. Hillary won't complain about the different results and the much larger turnout in the primary but you can bet that Bernie would have. He probably would have filed yet another lawsuit.

[workinclasszero]

48. Bernie is a DINO

He's only in this for himself.

He embraces undemocratic processes if it benefits his bottom line...votes.

[MineralMan]

57. Like all primary candidates, Bernie is taking whatever wins he can get.

Odds are that if the Nebraska and Washington primary events had been elections, he'd not have done as well. It's easy to flood a caucus with supporters and get a good result. Not so easy with elections.

Same think happened here in Minnesota. Our state primary, which will include presidential candidates, will be on June 24. You can expect a similar result on that date, too, to Nebraska and Washington's state primaries. It won't affect the delegate allocation, since that was determined by our caucuses, but it will explain why Minnesota will be having primaries in 2020. That measure was just signed by the Governor, after having been passed in both houses of our state legislature.

The caucus system is moribund. More states will stop using caucuses to select delegates in presidential years, I'm sure. We're seeing why now. Good riddance to caucuses, even though I enjoy attending and chairing them. They just aren't representative of voters' wishes.

[Bluenorthwest]

68. Odd are a WA primary would go like the Oregon primary....

We are similar, we are adjacent and sadly the Democratic Party of Washington has insisted upon the caucus system via litigation against the State. A Washington Primary was to have been conducted by mail, similar to Oregon's method but the Democratic Party put the nix on it.

If Nevada goes back to a Primary system next cycle, history will show that Hillary Clinton won both contested Nevada Democratic caucuses, 08 and 16. I assume now that this is done, Harry will be ok to return to the Primary system.....he really wanted that caucus. Reid I mean.

[leeroysphitz]

62. you never voted for Bernie. he doesnt owe you shit. n/t

[Sheepshank]

71. Bernie loves to speak in fact free rhetoric that enrages his following with bullshit

and then those self same followers chant and buy the meme and spread the falseties...it's kinda like small pox.

[bigwillq]

72. Bernie is not going to be the nominee.

It's probably best to use time and energy to build up Hillary and attack Donald Dump.

[TheSarcastinator]

73. bwhahaha: NO ONE CARE WHAT YOU "DEMAND"

F'N HILAROUS LEVELS OF HUBRIS.

I will enjoy watching the crash-and-burn.

[LAS14]

74. k & r

[bkkyosemite]

76. He doesn't owe you anything. He did not create Caucus states. Obama said nothing about them

while he was running for President.

[arcane1]

78. More unoriginal drivel from the Brock-puppets n/t

[yodermon]

79. YOU'VE WON. Just ignore Bernie at this point. Why give him air time with this post? n/t

[polly7]

80. Why the hell would he owe anyone anything??? nt

[snowy owl]

81. Massive? Why can't you be honest? B people - me may not have voted paper. Wish Sawant SD.

And she'll get our politicians SD votes. Wish Sawant had SD status. So they can overturn our choices.

[MariaThinks]

91. Good questions

[LoverOfLiberty]

97. The use of the word 'lie'

is way overused on this site.

[CrowCityDem]

101. Yes, but in this case it's true.

"We win when voter turnout is high."

We have two states now where we have seen both low and high turnout among the same group of voters. Bernie won when turnout was low, lost when it was high.

[LoverOfLiberty]

108. Did he say it before or after the fact?

Because if he said it before it was disproven, it was a mistake, not a lie.
I'm not a Sanders supporter, just pointing out that we toss the word lie around a lot in here.

[CrowCityDem]

110. He's been saying that ever since New Hampshire, and it's never been statistically true.

[HERVEPA]

105. He doesn't owe you shit.