Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
Sat May 28, 2016, 03:52 PM May 2016

THE DEMOCRATS ARE MAKING A SUICIDAL MISTAKE

THE DEMOCRATS ARE MAKING A SUICIDAL MISTAKE
As a report undermines her statements about the email server, and polls show Trump drawing even, the Clinton campaign is quickly becoming a disaster
by NATHAN J. ROBINSON * May 28, 2016 * Current Affairs

Somewhat predictably, Hillary Clinton’s campaign has become a sinking ship. All of the lessons that should have been learned after her 2008 run failed so badly (that voters’ trust in her diminishes with each word she speaks, that her campaigns are woefully poorly run, that Bill is a liability) have been ignored, as the Democrats press forward with what looks like a doomed strategy.

Things were already looking bad when new polling showed that Trump had drawn even with Clinton, or was actually beating her (something Democrats have insisted is impossible). Now, the Inspector General for the State Department has released a report that contradicts large parts of Clinton’s story about her email server, which was already a highly troublesome and persistent issue.

The report hands the Trump campaign a powerful issue to deploy against Clinton. As the New York Times reported, it has numerous damning portions:

"The inspector general found that Mrs. Clinton “had an obligation to discuss using her personal email account to conduct official business” with department officials but that, contrary to her claims that the department “allowed” the arrangement, there was “no evidence” she had requested or received approval for it… Department officials told the inspector general’s office that “Secretary Clinton never demonstrated to them that her private server or mobile device met minimum information security requirements,” the report said. The report also criticized Mrs. Clinton for not adhering to the department’s rules for handling records under the Federal Records Act once she stepped down in January 2013… The rules governing emails under previous secretaries were, the report said, “very fluid.” By the time Mrs. Clinton came to office, however, they were “considerably more detailed and sophisticated,” spelling out the “obligation to use department systems in most circumstances and identifying the risks of not doing so.”


The Clinton campaign quickly released a statement arguing that the report had in fact exonerated her of wrongdoing. But even the Times, whose Clinton coverage is generally extremely sympathetic (they are the paper, after all, that went back and re-edited a news piece about Bernie Sanders to avoid making it seem too complimentary), seemed unable to stomach this attempt to twist the report’s findings.

Much More: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/05/the-democrats-are-making-a-suicidal-mistake
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
THE DEMOCRATS ARE MAKING A SUICIDAL MISTAKE (Original Post) 99th_Monkey May 2016 OP
"we'll be fine: it's only the complaining that makes her poll badly" MisterP May 2016 #1
. XemaSab May 2016 #8
Either they think that they can win in Nov against trump regardless of Purveyor May 2016 #2
And it used to be you could count out being just plain stupid . . . not any more pdsimdars May 2016 #13
The email issue is resonating with many. HassleCat May 2016 #3
Secretary of State is 4th in line for the presidency XemaSab May 2016 #10
I'm with you about Hillary's damned emails 99th_Monkey May 2016 #11
The foundation is the crux of the email issue for many people Cal Carpenter May 2016 #19
That's what I would think, but I'm in the minority. HassleCat May 2016 #21
Actually, it is both/and as near as I can tell. 99th_Monkey May 2016 #37
It's getting coverage on 'bunny-ear' news - the local stations you can only pick up w/antenna. ebayfool May 2016 #23
People have experience with email unc70 May 2016 #30
oh look the sanders surrogates dont want her to be president. there's a shocker for ya nt msongs May 2016 #4
The NY Times is a Sanders surrogate? WTF. Did I misread your post? n/t mikehiggins May 2016 #5
16 Days...16 Days, and you can feel totally comfortable again..nobody to remind you insta8er May 2016 #7
Ya'know that bit about democrats needing a plan b??? catnhatnh May 2016 #12
There are a lot of Americans that don't trust her and don't want her to be president. rhett o rick May 2016 #15
If only there was some sort of polling on the subject mythology May 2016 #20
things have changed a lot since April. nt grasswire May 2016 #31
The party is making a mistake of historic proportions nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #6
My honest take on it: Nuclear Unicorn May 2016 #39
I am thinking more of the Mouse nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #40
Pat Paulsen! SusanCalvin May 2016 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author silvershadow May 2016 #9
Well, they thought they could handle Trump and had contingencies to thwart him but he is pdsimdars May 2016 #14
If the one is what I think it is, I believe they have that covered also. nm rhett o rick May 2016 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author silvershadow May 2016 #17
The establishment didn't get the Bush half of the contest they were hoping for NorthCarolina May 2016 #18
It torques my mind to contemplate a "choice" in Nov. 99th_Monkey May 2016 #22
Sander's ship is sinking actually Demsrule86 May 2016 #24
Excuse me, but your wishful thinking is showing. n/t 99th_Monkey May 2016 #25
HRC is still winning. Bernie still lost. But thanks for playing. Lil Missy May 2016 #26
HRC is gonna lose in November. liberalnarb May 2016 #29
You flatter yourself. Lil Missy May 2016 #34
look at the poll numbers grasswire May 2016 #32
The voters and not a political blogger have the right to make that decision. They chose Hillary. Trust Buster May 2016 #27
Suddenly it's all about the voters, and not the polls. Got it. nt 99th_Monkey May 2016 #36
Then why did the cycle start with proclamations of 'Super Delegate' vote leads? Bluenorthwest May 2016 #38
Current Affairs: "It’s a beautiful publication full of satire, wit, and elegance." Agnosticsherbet May 2016 #28
thank you for that source grasswire May 2016 #33
Yah, it was new to me too .. 99th_Monkey May 2016 #35
Hillary's campaign shows zero capacity to learn from previous mistakes. sorechasm May 2016 #42
 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
2. Either they think that they can win in Nov against trump regardless of
Sat May 28, 2016, 03:58 PM
May 2016

how bad of a campaign/position they are in or they are just plain stupid...

Dark days ahead regardless...

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
13. And it used to be you could count out being just plain stupid . . . not any more
Sat May 28, 2016, 05:25 PM
May 2016

The more you know, the more you realize that STUPID may be the only conclusion you can come to.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
3. The email issue is resonating with many.
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:18 PM
May 2016

Some of my friends are surprising me by citing the email issue. I didn't think it would go much of anywhere, but it "has legs" evidently. I guess people expect a high standard when you're a cabinet member, particularly one of the most important cabinet members. I thought the foundation, the associations with banks, and so on, were more significant, but the email thing may be what ruins it for Clinton.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
10. Secretary of State is 4th in line for the presidency
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:36 PM
May 2016

And I think a big part of what's giving this legs is the suspicion that she was running pay-to-play out of the SoS office and trading favors to foreign governments for Foundation donations.

30,000 "private" emails about Chelsea's wedding just doesn't work for me.

That there bell can't be un-rung.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
11. I'm with you about Hillary's damned emails
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:38 PM
May 2016

But unlike those other issues like Wall St., TPP, etc. -- coincidentally ones that Hillary would always tack Left on to appear more "liberal -- the email issue stands as hers and hers alone; and cuts to the bone of national security, the "judgement" thing, and has tendrils into the Clinton Foundation shenanigans, et. al.

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
19. The foundation is the crux of the email issue for many people
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:09 PM
May 2016

It isn't just moral outrage about the possible security breaches etc. Specifics about Blumenthal and weapons stuff during her SoS tenure are very worrisome and I'm surprised they aren't talked about much on DU. I guess posters who bring it up being accused of repeating 'RW Hillary-hating smears' is helping keep the noise down.

Frankly, anyone being honest about the real activities of the state dept over the last decades shouldn't be all that surprised. What's surprising is that the details are coming out and the email shit looks like a bad, bad attempt at a cover-up.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
21. That's what I would think, but I'm in the minority.
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:21 PM
May 2016

I think the details of some of the questionable associations are the significant element of the email thing. But my friends seem to think it's the security breech.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
37. Actually, it is both/and as near as I can tell.
Sun May 29, 2016, 02:56 AM
May 2016

Her damned emails revealed many unsavory details about her Foundation and
its real purpose i.e. a front for the Clinton international/MIC shenanigans.

ebayfool

(3,411 posts)
23. It's getting coverage on 'bunny-ear' news - the local stations you can only pick up w/antenna.
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:29 PM
May 2016

Local news has been low on political content here, and this is garnering attention. Negative attention. The area I'm in is very low income, so little cable/satellite. Yeah, the email issue is trickling into the public awareness. And the talk I'm hearing about it is most of them see it as an affirmation of 'nontrustworthyness'. It's gonna hurt Clinton - and by extension Democrats - badly.

unc70

(6,322 posts)
30. People have experience with email
Sun May 29, 2016, 12:04 AM
May 2016

Most people have experience with email, at home and at work. Also with seeing investigations of public officials involving their emails. The IG report confirms their suspicions -- Clinton has been lying to everyone about the emails. Now, nothing she says or does passes the smell test.

 

insta8er

(960 posts)
7. 16 Days...16 Days, and you can feel totally comfortable again..nobody to remind you
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:29 PM
May 2016

what a liability she is.

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
12. Ya'know that bit about democrats needing a plan b???
Sat May 28, 2016, 05:10 PM
May 2016

I'm betting the Admins are thinking they might too. You see if 17 days from now they allowed a purge and Hillary was subsequently forced to bail it would be detrimental to their business plan. Now I don't doubt that Skinner would like to protect the presumptive nominee. I just think there's a bit more room for doubt about who that might be than there had been a while ago.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
15. There are a lot of Americans that don't trust her and don't want her to be president.
Sat May 28, 2016, 05:32 PM
May 2016

This isn't news. But her fans prefer Trump over Sanders. Conservatives stick together.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
20. If only there was some sort of polling on the subject
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:11 PM
May 2016

Oh wait there is:

Among Clinton supporters, just 14 percent said they would steer clear of voting for Sanders should he become the party's nominee, with 79 percent saying they would get behind the Vermont senator.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/sanders-supporters-not-vote-clinton-221642

80% of Clinton supporters in April said they would vote for Sanders. Kind of makes your claim look silly.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
39. My honest take on it:
Sun May 29, 2016, 08:30 AM
May 2016

The GOP make awesome machine politicians; it's part of their nature. They organize well for specific purposes: the military, corporations, churches, etc. That allows them to organize well for other specific purposes such as elections.

This is not to be confused with the more individualist-minded conservative-libertarians who vote GOP.

In contrast the Democratic party was a camp for the refugees of GOP policy and realpolitik. It was a place for those who were without a voice to gather and combine their voices. It provided an organized structure but the lines between organized structures and machines is a thin one.

The attraction to Hillary is that she is a machine politician in the mold of Tammany Hall and Chicago. Since Bill's administration they have endeavored to engineer the structure of the Democratic party apparatus into a thing that doesn't represent Democratic voters as much as it serves their ambitions.

When the election approached the question was put before us: How do we plan to beat the GOP machine?

It's a fair question and it's a frightening prospect considering they made it through 8 years of Bush without ever having been held to account. They are formidable and to not be concerned about them would be foolhardy.

So, we were told the answer to their machine politicians was our own machine politician and that, naturally, was Hillary. Not that any other answer was possible because her machine was engineered only to produce that singular answer. And produce it, it has.

Heck, in the early days of the primary season her supporters even played her cronyism to corporate interests as a virtue. "Well, how else do you expect her to match GOP moneyed interests?" they sniffed.

But then came Trump. For all his barking baboon buffoonery he was one thing: Not a machine politician. In fact, it was his barking baboon buffoonery that showed him to not be a part of the machine. The GOP machine reviles him. Nobody thought he could clinch the nomination -- but he did.

Now we're stuck with a machine politician geared up to fight another machine politician except there's no machine for her to fight and what's worse is the Trump victory shows the electorate is in the mood to dismantle machines. The barking baboon is the monkey wrench the voters intend to throw into the machine. I'm not saying their choice of monkey wrench is good -- it may be effective but it definitely isn't good no matter how badly the machine needs to be dismantled.

So here we are.

We either back the machine, thus further entrenching it into our lives and political structure, ossifying it for the foreseeable future with its corporatism, wars of aggression, corruption, cronyism and disregard for the law or we stand by as a barking baboon riding a nihilistic wave anti-everything brings us God only knows what.

Is it too late to write in Alfred E. Neuman?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
40. I am thinking more of the Mouse
Sun May 29, 2016, 09:10 AM
May 2016

Far more emblematic of the problems.

While true, none considered how damaged she already is due to the slow developing scandal

Oh and I am half kidding

Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
14. Well, they thought they could handle Trump and had contingencies to thwart him but he is
Sat May 28, 2016, 05:27 PM
May 2016

now the GOP nominee. The Corporate State isn't the be all and end all as has been proven time and again throughout history.

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #16)

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
18. The establishment didn't get the Bush half of the contest they were hoping for
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:07 PM
May 2016

so now all they have left is the Hillary half. If Hillary gets blown out, or forced out, they won't have a dog in this race unless they can slip someone else in. I know that there is no way they will permit an actual humanist to compete, only the pretend kind are allowed.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
22. It torques my mind to contemplate a "choice" in Nov.
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:25 PM
May 2016

between an establishment Dem and an outsider who's a dangerous idiot.

The People have decisively renounced The Establishment on both sides of the isle,
so we deserve a real choice: one between a dangerous idiot and Crazy Bernie. It
would be such a YUUUGE improvement over Hillary v. Trump.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
38. Then why did the cycle start with proclamations of 'Super Delegate' vote leads?
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:44 AM
May 2016

If it is all about the voters there should not be a large lead awarded prior to the casting of even one voter's vote. But that's how your team did it. The will of the people is an afterthought at best.

sorechasm

(631 posts)
42. Hillary's campaign shows zero capacity to learn from previous mistakes.
Sun May 29, 2016, 10:14 AM
May 2016
This is a useful exemplification of a disturbing recurrent Clinton trait: responding to criticisms that she has lied by telling… even more lies, thus causing the whole thing to degenerate further down into disaster. It’s the same tactic Clinton thought would work when she was called out on her claim about ducking sniper fire in Bosnia.


Runs the same campaign as 2008 and expects different results. Apologies are false and useless without lessons learned. Among her many faults, the inability to learn from previous mistakes is the most disturbing. She apologized for her vote on the Iraq war, but she makes the same mistakes with Syria. Her apology for her email 'gaffe' has no credibility, which implies that she would make the same mistakes as President.
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»THE DEMOCRATS ARE MAKING ...