Voting the lesser of two evils is blackmail

[larkrake]

To compromise my own standards is "settling", especially when you know the tendencies of that candidate is dark and troubling.

Settling is to invite more of the same in the future.

I believe the only way to kick a bad habit is to go cold turkey toward what you know is acceptable, swallow your fear and stand up with your own voice

[AgingAmerican]

1. It's a way to cram right wing policies down our throats

[larkrake]

17. Correct. Corporations love doing that to us

[Jackilope]

26. We are being set up by the oligarchy. They win either way.

We are given an illusion of choice.

[larkrake]

31. exactly, throwing breadcrumbs to ducks (Not that we are ducks)

[nolabels]

76. More like manure and ducks spit that stuff right back up

[CorporatistNation]

101. The ONLY Path To CHANGE Is For US To Stand In TOTAL OPPOSITION To This Ever Worsening Grand Charade

That IS America's CORPORATIST OWNED AND OPERATED CHARADE OF A POLITICAL SYSTEM!

MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

[annavictorious]

102. So said the Naderites in 2000

when Nobel Peace prize winner, environmental activist Al Gore was the lesser of two evils.

http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2015/06/supplemental-was-gore-lesser-of-two.html

[AgingAmerican]

103. Gore wasnt crammed down our throats

[larkrake]

109. no, he was so afflicted by Clinton schrapnal, he didnt have a big enough lead to avoid Jeb's

schenanigans or corp influence over supremes

[SheilaT]

2. What is exceptionally annoying

are the posts that piously say we can't expect perfection, or that no one candidate will ever align 100% with our specific beliefs.

Both of those willfully overlook the fact that the lesser evil is still evil. And I'm not going to vote for someone I consider an evil candidate. Period.

[larkrake]

15. agreed- no one is perfect, but some are bent over with heavy luggage

[Metric System]

3. I hope you're a straight, white male.

[Lizzie Poppet]

5. What? Race-baiting from Camp Weathervane? Oh, I can't believe that would ever happen...

...said no one, ever.

Bye, Felicia...

[larkrake]

13. I am a female citizen of the world, lived in 11 states and 6 countries and

my eyes are wide open. I see America is in a rut, and recognize tunnelvision , fear and apathy. I will vote for a smart woman when we find one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. John Quincy Adams

[Demsrule86]

6. What future are you talking about?

If Trump gets in, and packs the court ...you have no future. I would imagine Ryan's budget goes through since they have the entire government...bye bye social security, medicare, and Medicaid...you would literally help starve babies. Roe V Wade gone...Obamacare gone...LGBT probably criminalized...so vote your conscience or have your tantrum...the choice is yours.

[Arkansas Granny]

9. Thank you. I wish we could recommend individual posts.

[Shadowflash]

10. Right.

The GOP nominated a turd that not even THEY like, let alone anybody else, yet HRC is BARELY breaking even with him in the polls. HRC should be thanking her lucky stars that they nominated such a clown this cycle to run against her. Had they nominated anybody who had a modicum of sense, she would be losing, big time.

But, sure, go ahead and blame the Sanders supporters if she loses.

[sufrommich]

12. But don't you understand? The faster we let it all

burn down,the faster we get the glorious left wing revolution that's surely coming through the chaos.

[Katashi_itto]

66. Nothing springs up overnight. Expect years of chaos.

[larkrake]

79. this is true

[Mike__M]

27. Too bad you can't bottle that fear and sell it.

I know of a political party full of folks who would buy it.

[larkrake]

36. if if if if if, are you so afraid? you really think congress ia going to listen to this conman?

I am not confident in Hilarys supreme picks. I know they will be corporate and hawkish. Since you think in increments of doom, I can safely say no matter which one is elected, we are doomed. The only difference is one is subtle, the other a bull in a china shop.

"Innocent" decisions without foresight brought us NAFTA and the prison system, the banking system and our degrading infrastructure- all unintended results from Bills attempts at globalization.

I cannot vote for the same. I dont let fear blind me- I have a passport if things go bad. All three candidates will cause a rough patch, change does that, so stick to the lesser of the 3 traumas that will be afflicting this nation.

[DonCoquixote]

72. translations

I cannot vote for the same. I dont let fear blind me- I have a passport if things go bad.

Translation: "I have privilege, and I am not afraid or ashamed to use it. Plenty of countries will be happy to have me."

you really think congress ia going to listen to this conman?

Translation: "I am willing to ignore the facts shown during the W. administration to feed my ego and protect my PRIVILEDGE. The old ladies that will starve, eh, you are just the fuel for the glorious revolution."

[larkrake]

83. well I am an under-privileged old lady so let me explain.

In my opinion, Congress is full of people who are following a well planned long term overthrow of democracy to line their own pockets or live well until God strikes us all down for loose morals. They are not going to let a ricochet rabbit like Trump form any policy that does not feed their own. Neither will they let Hillary undo what they have done so far.

In fact, have we not seen for 8 yrs that they spurn the office of President at their will to keep things flowing their way. Trump will not be followed, empowered or trusted by either party. He is not a republican , he is neither party, he isn't a sane person. He is clinically ill.

We all have the privilege to leave. It costs $100 for a passport and jobs are readily available elsewhere, just not here.

Those who choose to stay will have to engage in a Revolution. It is beyond the point of no return.

[DonCoquixote]

105. It costs $100 for a passport and jobs are readily available elsewhere, just not here.

Gee...do you happen to have a list of countries and jobs willing to take in the old ladies, children and poor of America?

[larkrake]

107. the children and poor get free education and healthcare in Europe, they dont have to be citizens

if Trump wins, there will be refugee americans, count on it. I am almost 70 and I get good job offers every week from asia and europe. Our grannies and gramps are grandfathered in to benefits. When america stops offering opportunities to graduates, why should they stay here? Many many nations want our youth to grow their businesses, and clearly the Partys and Congress prefer wars to job creation.

[Mz Pip]

77. +1,000,000

[MFM008]

78. yes thank you

Then Sanders and his supporters can feel smugly satisfied during the Trump years where he destroys America and possibly the world. Go Ideological purity.

[larkrake]

84. are you insane?

[Feathery Scout]

7. Our system is voluntary voting with a secret ballot.

Everyone is free to privately vote (or not) as they wish.

I see no compromise or blackmail forced upon anyone.

[larkrake]

37. a two party system is blackmail

[Feathery Scout]

67. There are multiple parties running candidates for POTUS and down ticket seats.

[larkrake]

85. Alot of folks are not aware of this fact, and the media wont help these good candidates

But with the internet, I think that oversight can be fought

[sufrommich]

8. Said every Paulite ever.

This is a country,not a cult.

[larkrake]

29. well, it is a stretch that this is a country since the civil war. The south never joined

Partys are cults. the Republicans being the most hard line cult in our history. We are looking down the barrel of becoming Multinational Corporations of the World with no country whatsoever.

[Jester Messiah]

11. Once they get you to violate your principles

It's easier for them to get you to do it again next time. After all, you already did it once. Can't un-pop the balloon, right?

[larkrake]

23. yes, sort of like a wife-beating victim, stays because it MIGHT be worse if she leaves

and everybody else is doing it. God forbid she have principles.

[SidDithers]

14. ...

Sid

[EndElectoral]

21. Use of the word moron to make your point is moronic.

[sufrommich]

22. +1000. nt

[opiate69]

24. Put it this way:

If you're still claiming that Bernie supporters threw chairs, despite that claim having been thoroughly debunked, you are a "goddamn moron". (Bonus moron points for having a college education, yet still not having enough mastery of the English language to know it actually should be "god-damned)

[Tavarious Jackson]

16. Do whatever you want

Bernie is dark and troubling.. The recent fraud investigation into his wife, his super pac fiasco with the AIDS Activists, FEC violations, Campaign money of Bernie's going to Chuck Todd's wife.

[larkrake]

20. then vote Hill, its your belief and no one should bring up

other investigations. My op is about personal ethics, not either candidate.

[Hydra]

18. It is blackmail, and it's an ugly way to force people to give up their freedom

"Evil, when we are in its power, is not felt as evil, but as a necessity, even a duty." - Simone Weil

[larkrake]

19. this is true, and has worked for many decades

our election system needs to be totally revamped

[GulfCoast66]

104. Have no fear

If BoB folks allow Trump the presidency out election system will be totally revamped!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. If you believe a Trump presidency wouldn't be a unmitigated disaster you need a life counselor.

[Nonhlanhla]

28. No, it's not blackmail

It's simply the reality of coalition politics, which is inevitable in a democracy. In many European systems, people get to vote their conscience, but afterwards the parties have to form coalitions in order to make up the majority. In the US winner-takes-all system only two coalitions are possible. The Democratic party will never please everybody in its coalition, but it is the only realistic option to get some progressive changes, since the other coalition is so retrogressive.

Nobody in a democracy gets everything they want. It's a system of give and take. It's just DEMOCRACY.

[larkrake]

30. Interesting theory, yet I hear it as a truthful excuse

Other countries dont restrict to two candidates hanging from two parties. More often than not, there are a dozen names on the ballot. They get on the ballot by getting enough sigs on a petition nationally, not state by state or region by region. Our system impedes other parties unfairly, assuring a two party system. I wish we could all vote our consciences, but we end up with really bad choices

[NorthCarolina]

41. That's exactly the kind of system the two parties here are fighting to prevent.

As anyone can clearly see, the free exchange of ideas as in these other countries leads to a much more Liberal Society, and * that's * the * rub.

How many Congressmen and Senators would spend millions in campaign dollars to win a job that only nets 6 figures and resets every 2 or 6 years? None. They don't (with few exceptions) aspire to these positions because they seek to do public service. They seek wealth and connections, and fuck the undesirables and super predators.

[larkrake]

52. Truer words were never spoken which is why we need term limits in congress

[farleftlib]

73. That is the absolute proof that the system is only for the few

Any mention of opening it up so that people could actually vote for the candidate of their
choice and not just against an opponent whose stances are completely antithetical to their
own personal ethics, and the congress critters howl that we have the best possible system.

[NorthCarolina]

75. Well, we have the best possible system.....for Them.

Basically we have the best Government that money CAN buy.

[farleftlib]

82. Damn skippy (eom)

[larkrake]

86. True, and some candidates are sounding like lobbyists

[geek tragedy]

32. Blackmail is also threatening to help Trump win

[larkrake]

53. yes, the threat is there like a hemorrhoid, but she will win

[emulatorloo]

33. It is a just a figure of speech. It means no candidate is perfectly aligned w me

So the voter has to decide which candidate is the closest to his or her views.

It is a figure of speech about the pragmatic choices a voter has to make.

For me in the primary Bernie is closer to my views than HRC

In the GE, we are stuck with a system where only two parties are viable, we will get a choice between a Democrat or a Republican.

So in the GE, either Bernie are Hillary are closer to my views than Trump.

That's the calculus I will make. If Trump is elected, a lot of progress we've made will be erased.

Of course you should vote for whoever you want.

[larkrake]

42. That is the calculus you have to make, my point exactly. We all have to make

this choice because we are stuck. Anyone can create their own party, but you have to get on 50 state ballots. That is ridiculous- it takes alot of money to do that. We never hear from some brilliant candidates. No, we just get billionaires who enter the race on a whim or an ego trip.

[emulatorloo]

45. The way to make third parties nationally viable is to start locally

Get some wins on the city council. Then the county, then the state. Then congress. And so on.

It is possible but a lot of work.

[larkrake]

55. absolutely. These races are far more vital than the presidency

[Peacetrain]

34. That is a lie.. there are no lesser than two evils

and if you buy that load of horse hockey.. then you will buy anythig

[larkrake]

50. peanut butter smooth or peanutbutter chunky, you still

ingest saturated fat.

Sunburn or frostbite, your body rejects both

What are you talking about?

[gollygee]

35. It is simple politics

It isn't even anything new. This is how is has always been,and how it will always be. If you think you can expect your perfect candidate to be an option in every election, your deluded. That isn't how it works. Everyone just picks the best option of those available.

One time we have a candidate who is as progressive as we are, and we all forget how politics is and always has been.

[larkrake]

46. So have more options

[gollygee]

48. That isn't how our system works

We only have two people who have any likelihood of winning. That's how it works in the US, and it isn't going to change between now and November. There is no way, with only two choices, you're going to find a candidate who is perfect for most people. Everyone will always just pick the one who is better for them out of the two.

[larkrake]

58. I dont expect anything to change this year, it was decided in '08,it was then

I chose someone I could respect and still do, and in the GE that year there wasnt a lesser of two evils to vote for, there was good vs evil, same in '12. This time, is radically different. Neither is palatable. We are stuck. This will become commonplace if we allow it

[gollygee]

68. Things will change if Trump were to become president.

Things can stay basically the same, or we can have a President Trump.

[shanti]

71. I don't feel that way

AFAIC, we're screwed either way. Things will NOT stay the same with hillary. how can it? she's part of the problem.

[gollygee]

74. She's part of the establishment

She's part of the general "people in charge." The people who have been in charge, at least behind the scenes, forever. She will do things the same way they've been done because she's part of that group.

I would have loved to have had Bernie get the nomination (because I think either of them could beat Trump easily - why not get the most progressive person in when we have a chance) but Hillary is not anywhere as bad as Trump. Trump would be worse than GWB was, and that was horrible.

[larkrake]

87. just more wars and trade deals

[seabeyond]

38. Calling Clinton evil is stupid. Destroys any further serious conversation.

[pdsimdars]

39. JFK quote

Once you say you're going to settle for second, that's what happens to you in life.

--- John F. Kennedy



Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/johnfkenn166598.html

[gollygee]

40. You think JFK wouldn't have voted for Clinton over trump?

I think that's pretty delusional.

[larkrake]

43. I'm pretty sure JFK would feel the Bern

[gollygee]

44. I'm not talking about Bernie vs. Clinton

We're talking Bernie or Bust at this point - which means not voting for Clinton in a Clinton vs. Trump election.

[larkrake]

59. or not voting Pres at all, just support down ticket to prevent the inevitable destruction

from either nominee

[pdsimdars]

69. Right now, in case you are uninformed, there is no such thing as "Trump over Clinton"

There is Trump on one side and Bernie Hillary on the other. .
That too complicated?

[gollygee]

70. The OP is about the "lesser of two evils" which is about Trump vs. Clinton

Did you read the OP?

However it seems pretty obvious to anyone not harboring delusions that it'll be Trump and Clinton in the general, which is why this is such an issue on DU.

[larkrake]

96. yes, I was referring to the GE scenario

[pdsimdars]

113. Keep watching.

[larkrake]

88. clinton has the demographics, she will win, but will never be loved

[larkrake]

47. so true in all options in life

[senz]

49. Thank you. Yes, it is like blackmail. Even has that "strong arm" feel to it.

Vote for this candidate or else.

As an American, I do not enjoy feeling jerked around by power seekers.

[JoePhilly]

51. Stay home already.

[Gothmog]

54. Living in the real world is tough at times

In the real world, one has to accept reality

[larkrake]

60. Reality is- if you dont like it, change it. As Americans, that should be instinctive

[Babel_17]

56. But it's considered bad manners to point that out in polite company

Though this isn't polite company, so no problem.

[larkrake]

61. Sadly this is true, it is more like fans rooting for their team instead of their country

[lovemydog]

57. Every election is that way.

It's been this way throughout history. No candidate in any election is perfect in every way. You choose to make your voice heard, or not.

Hope you're enjoying a good holiday weekend.

[larkrake]

62. Exactly! I avoided the traffic, went to Estes Park Thursday where students did great at a show,

attended a great art show and hiked mountain trails- not one word of politics spoken, just rushing streams, loud cheerful birds, sweet grass, a few trout and a little rain. It was wonderful, thanx. Hope you escaped to happiness too

[lovemydog]

65. Oh, how beautiful!

The Rockies are gorgeous this time of year. I love all the streams, birds, fish & crisp mountain air.

Yes, I'm having a wonderful weekend too. Last night went to a couple of gatherings. This eve, a bbq, tomorrow some friends doing an outdoor concert / bbq and then a big basketball playoff game on tv!

Keep escaping to happiness. Nature is where it's at!

[larkrake]

89. yes, nature is my religion and a big dose of reality

I'd love me some BBQ, maybe tomorrow

[Babel_17]

63. Third way or the highway

[larkrake]

64. What a great analogy, thank you for a wordless op followup

[TwilightZone]

80. So, stay the hell home. Nobody is blackmailing you. No one is forcing you to do anything.

This incessant drumbeat of "stop telling me what to do" from a bunch of people acting like elementary school kids on a playground has become exceedingly tiresome.

Do whatever you want to do. Just stop acting like you're some kind of victim.

[larkrake]

92. Never ever stay home, vote senate and reps to save the country

Unfortunately, elections always reveal the millions of victims in great distress but few vote for them, do they.

[Demsrule86]

81. And then if Trump is elected

watch liberal progress dating back to Roosevelt destroyed...and think I helped.

[larkrake]

93. broken record here

[laserhaas]

90. Concur

😎

[oberliner]

91. Sanders: "My job is to make sure that Trump does not become president."

From his interview with Chuck Todd today.

Well, the responsibility that I accept in a very, very serious way is to do everything that I can to make sure that Donald Trump will not become elected president of the United States. Donald Trump, for a dozen different reasons, would be a disaster as president. I will do everything that I can to make sure that does not happen.

[larkrake]

94. He means that

[Dem2]

95. Advocating for what?

Not sure I care who you vote for, but since you're sharing your opinion, you must be posting for a reason. What are you advocating for?

[larkrake]

97. Downticket will be our insurance

[quaker bill]

100. I always vote against the greater of two evils

Same act, different way of looking at it. I never have a problem voting against the greater evil, and do not feel I settled for anything.

I have been voting in every election at every level for a very long time. The times I had a chance to vote for "good" could be counted on one hand, and leave some fingers to spare.

Not participating does not get "good" nominated, it only gets your opinion ignored.

[Flying Squirrel]

106. Under normal circumstances, perhaps

But the problem becomes, if a certain threshold is reached where massive numbers refuse to vote for either candidate, the legitimacy of the winner (either one) is jeapordized. Which puts the legitimacy of the entire system in jeapordy. Which is what will happen this time around if two people with historically high negatives face off this November. How fast thesituation devolves from there is anyone's guess, but it will devolve.

[larkrake]

108. And incredibly interesting observation Squirrel, and perhaps the catalyst for

one person, one vote, no conventions, no caucuses, just state final tallies on a dozen candidates or more to primary nationally. I'd rather have 5 options than two unsavory choices

The system is not legitimate The partys are power brokers in league with corporate media. It is just too obvious to ignore and not democratic

[quaker bill]

111. under any circumstance, the greater of two evils is more evil

a person's failure to participate does not delegitimize the system. The winner will still be sworn in.

Any notion that the system has not already devolved should be dispelled by the Donald getting a nomination. He has said and then contradicted himself on things that would end political careers in any system that was not near fully devolved.

If he wins, riots in the streets are likely, if he loses, pretty much the same result. The only question is which crowd starts them.

Sitting at home on election day will not change this result, voting 3rd party will not change it either. You get to pick who the chief law enforcement officer is, and that person will enforce the law in the streets when push comes to shove. This is why voting against the greater of two evils always makes sense.

[Flying Squirrel]

114. Not buying it, sorry.

I can't vote for "Not Donald Trump" and have my vote subtracted from Trump's votes. I have to positively vote for someone. If I positively vote for any third party candidate, you (and/or others) would say that I'm supporting Trump by withholding my vote from Hillary.

Perhaps there should be a "None of the above" option, hold the election earlier, and if the "None" option wins, the parties have to start from scratch and nominate new candidates. I don't expect that to happen ever, though. But I will not accept the fallacy that I must positively vote for the lesser evil in order to vote against the greater evil. I can and will withhold my vote or vote for a third party, or write in a candidate, if I cannot stomach the idea of positively voting for the lesser evil because it is too evil.

[quaker bill]

115. You can imagine all you like

I am no Hillary fan and would not waste my time speaking to you in that regard. I am only stating what I see the actual options are. I was one of the people working for Al Gore in FL when we came in 537 short.

I found living day to day with GWB for the next 8 years deeply depressing. I believe I will find 4 years of Trump to be a worse experience.

I have in all honesty nearly always voted against the greater of two evils. Perhaps you are young and idealistic and think it will someday be different, as I did once.

You can sit it out, or vote 3rd party, or otherwise waste your time anyway you want. I for one, helped organize the Green Party of FL, that is right, the party that put Nader on the FL ballot in 2000.

What I have learned over decades of trying is that my vote is not sacred, not even vaguely sacred. It costs me nothing and takes 15 minutes out of my day once a year or so. Using it pragmatically to attempt to cause others and myself less pain is worth the 15 minute investment.

Don't get me wrong, this stuff is serious, deadly serious. If Trump wins, he will have the keys to 10,000 nuclear weapons for 4 years. He will be in command of the most powerful military on the planet. That is serious. While given free choice, Hillary would not be my pick, not even close, she is at least an adult with no massive psychological defects apparent. She just might listen when we protest.

[Flying Squirrel]

116. To the contrary

Last edited Tue May 31, 2016, 12:30 AM - Edit history (1)

I was once younger and more idealistic - yet even though I disliked Gore, I participated in the "Nader Trader" thing and voted for him in my state which was projected to be close (the margin turned out to be 5.58%) in exchange for someone else voting Nader in a red state to try and get him the magical 5% he wanted (can't even remember why). I also voted for Obama despite some misgivings about his being too willing to "reach across the aisle". I even voted for him a second time when my misgivings had been mostly confirmed. I simply cannot vote for someone when the mere idea makes me sick to my stomach, no matter how bad the alternative is. Before this primary began, even as late as January, I didn't have that sick feeling and my position hadn't hardened. She did that, and her surrogates who were clearly doing what she wanted, and the media, and her supporters at local and state levels who were willing to do what they did. I'm 48 and I'm done with the lesser of two evils. It's not about being idealistic per se, it's about being fed up to here. ^^^^ My life is more than halfway over in all likelihood, and my patience with the Democratic Party has reached its limit.

[quaker bill]

117. ...my patience with the Democratic Party has reached its limit...

I was there in the late 80's and early 90's

I was protesting first strike nukes and the Contra war during Reagan, and "welfare reform" under Clinton. That is when, I and a few friends read into the Green Party and decided Florida needed one.

It was fun for a bit, they ran candidates for local offices in liberal enclaves and started winning. We parted company over Nader in 2000.

I am no Hillary fan. That said, I am pretty sure she will spend 4 years "looking into" the real problems as they slowly but surely get worse. Trump will act to make these problems worse, full speed ahead, while believing he is fixing things. I cannot ignore the difference, even if I need to wash my hands after voting.

[XRubicon]

110. Okay....

Say you are driving a car on the highway going 55 mph. All of a sudden traffic stops. You are traveling too fast to stop because you were distracted by listening to music that made you feel superior to everyone. On your left is a women with a baby in a stroller, on your right is a cliff. In front of you is the stopped cars.

Which way do you steer? or is it all the same?

[B Calm]

112. It's sad it's coming down to this, we deserve better than Hillary and Trump!