Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

UCmeNdc

(9,600 posts)
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:33 AM Jun 2016

Libertarian VP Candidate Blows Republicans' Email Hopes To Smithereens

But then there was a moment where former Governor Weld shattered Republican dreams and Donald Trump's talking points about Hillary Clinton's email.

Weld changed the topic they were discussing and brought up the whole Hillary email hoo-ha, telling Chuck Todd it is going nowhere. When pressed by Todd on why he thought so, Weld replied, "I'm speaking as a former director of the criminal division of the Justice Department. There's no criminal intent, and with no criminal intent there's no indictment."

So there you go, Republicans. Your Libertarian challengers are blowing up your smear campaigns right and left.



http://crooksandliars.com/2016/05/libertarian-vp-candidate-blows-republicans

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Libertarian VP Candidate Blows Republicans' Email Hopes To Smithereens (Original Post) UCmeNdc Jun 2016 OP
If Libertarians get 15%... pinebox Jun 2016 #1
Johnson got 1% in 2012. TwilightZone Jun 2016 #18
Awww all the berners praying to the indictment fairy just got a giant sad workinclasszero Jun 2016 #2
:-) Well said. riversedge Jun 2016 #9
I think Bill Weld went to law school w/the Clintons. MADem Jun 2016 #3
Intent has noting to do with the handling of classified material. -none Jun 2016 #4
DU lawyer, 18 U.S. Code § 1924 says otherwise. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #6
Intent may not be black and white here... thesquanderer Jun 2016 #23
I wonder if Jane has found her and Bernie's tax returns yet? workinclasszero Jun 2016 #11
Which has what to do with Hillary's unauthorized E-mail server in her home? -none Jun 2016 #13
So I take it you are ok with Sanders and his wife..uh.."losing" their tax returns? workinclasszero Jun 2016 #15
Which again has nothing to do with Hillary's E-mail server. -none Jun 2016 #21
Don't you think its...funny...that Trump and Bernie are both hiding their tax returns? workinclasszero Jun 2016 #22
I guess that attempting to get around the FOIA does not constitute criminal intent tularetom Jun 2016 #5
Clap harder DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #8
I hope our LGBT brothers and sisters can ignore the rather homophobic tone of your post tularetom Jun 2016 #14
Is this better? DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #16
WTF is leftynyc Jun 2016 #20
Well we still have our fly by night amature prosecutors with us I see. upaloopa Jun 2016 #7
He would know, as he stonewalled Senator Kerry's committee investigating the Contras - karynnj Jun 2016 #10
On the one hand, Bill Clinton tried to appoint him as an ambassador, on the other he has integrity andym Jun 2016 #12
And Jesse Helms blocked his ambassadorship to Mexico. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #17
Boom! Mic drop! Surya Gayatri Jun 2016 #19

MADem

(135,425 posts)
3. I think Bill Weld went to law school w/the Clintons.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jun 2016

He said, IIRC, that both are smart as whips, but she was smarter than Bill.

-none

(1,884 posts)
4. Intent has noting to do with the handling of classified material.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:46 AM
Jun 2016

Either you do it correctly, or you are in violation. Hillary signed a couple of forms signifying she understood which was what.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
6. DU lawyer, 18 U.S. Code § 1924 says otherwise.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:53 AM
Jun 2016
18 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 93 - PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES
Sec. 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material
From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov

§1924. Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(b) For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).
(c) In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.
(Added Pub. L. 103–359, title VIII, §808(a), Oct. 14, 1994, 108 Stat. 3453; amended Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, §4002(d)(1)(C)(i), Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1809.)
Amendments


...

Furthermore, DU lawyer, I will defer to the legal opinion of the former director of the criminal division of the Justice Department.


"I'm ( William weld) speaking as a former director of the criminal division of the Justice Department. There's no criminal intent, and with no criminal intent there's no indictment."




thesquanderer

(11,986 posts)
23. Intent may not be black and white here...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:44 PM
Jun 2016

There are two issues most often under discussion:

1. We know she messed up in maintaining work correspondence such that it would not be properly archived and available to FOIA requests. Was that intentional? It's hard to prove intent, but I put forth a perspective on that at http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512101411

2. If she is found to have mishandled classified information, there has been conflicting about whether or not intent matters. But to use your quote about someone who "knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location" -- the word "remove" is interesting when it comes to electronic data, since having a copy of it does not remove it from its other location. But she did arguably keep copies of--let's call it potentially classified--information at an unauthorized location (wherever her server was), and also kept it personally accessible long after she left her position as SOS.

But for the justice dep't to take action, I think there would have to be some pretty unambiguous evidence, so the question may really be one of what else the FBI may know (or learn).

Also of interest in your quote is the penalty, which could simply be a fine ("shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both&quot . So even if she were indicted (at least under the statute you quote), something like a "no contest" plea with a financial penalty would probably end it. As others have pointed out, people in these kinds of positions have also had the security clearances revoked, but I don't know that there is a requirement for such a penalty (and a president could presumably override that anyway).

Even then, we're talking about the penalties regarding classified information. The penalties for the FOIA related stuff is, as far as I can see, basically non-existent, unless they do indeed manage to go to intent/obstruction.

There is one other issue which probably has more explosive potential, but also is the one where is the least known real evidence, and that has to do with the lack of a sufficient wall between her actions as SOS and activities within the Clinton Foundation. But talk of that is little more than speculation.

Bottom line, I still wouldn't put any money on her being indicted... and if she is, she may be able to plea out pretty harmlessly. But that doesn't mean that Trump can't benefit from all this.

-none

(1,884 posts)
21. Which again has nothing to do with Hillary's E-mail server.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:18 PM
Jun 2016

And is only deflection for something you do not want to acknowledge.
If you want tax returns, how about Hillary's Goldman Sack transcripts? What do they want in return for their $250,000 to $350,000 a pop to Hillary?
Or would you rather stick with the server issue?

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
22. Don't you think its...funny...that Trump and Bernie are both hiding their tax returns?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:20 PM
Jun 2016
"There's no criminal intent, and with no criminal intent there's no indictment."

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
5. I guess that attempting to get around the FOIA does not constitute criminal intent
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:47 AM
Jun 2016

Mr Weld appears to be the Palin/Stockdale clueless VP candidate of 2016.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
16. Is this better?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:06 PM
Jun 2016



I deleted it on the off chance it would offend somebody. We need a gif with a fairy like her:


 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
20. WTF is
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:10 PM
Jun 2016

homophobic about that post? The smell of your desperation, however, is getting pretty rancid.

karynnj

(59,501 posts)
10. He would know, as he stonewalled Senator Kerry's committee investigating the Contras -
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:55 AM
Jun 2016

yet, that was not an issue for him ever - even in MA - even when he faced Kerry for Senate. He even stonewalled when Senator Lugar made the requests himself.

All the same, I do not think this ends the Republican campaign on this -- as it does not dependent on an indictment. The story itself adds to negatives. What does halt the effectiveness is that the alternative is the loathsome Trump.

andym

(5,443 posts)
12. On the one hand, Bill Clinton tried to appoint him as an ambassador, on the other he has integrity
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:01 PM
Jun 2016

He resigned his position as head of the Criminal Division of the Justice Department to protest Ed Meese during Reagan.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Libertarian VP Candidate ...