2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSnowden Destroys Hillary
From: https://mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/738014840543797249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Do it for personal benefit, and you could be President.
For the record, I have never liked Snowden and I still feel he should be brought to justice. So don't even attempt to use the double-standard on me. You can check any of my posts regarding the topic.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Just glancing at the news, she appears to have not been destroyed.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and it's probably the primaries polarizing us.
You are a great DUer.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Just trying to interject some humor into this scary forum. I would never turn on my good friends here just because they picked Pepsi and not Coke. Friendship transcends political choice imo.
How has your garden been treating you? We just ate some okra from ours last night, fresh okra is da bomb!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)The African word for okra is literally gumbo . Fresh from the garden is the best ingredient of quality gumbo!
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Snowden's against her.
I have many questions, but they all boil down to WHAT?
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)I don't want a candidate that he would approve of.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)But in Russia, you only need to spend a few hours in Siberia to feel the burn.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Separation
(1,975 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Tortmaster
(382 posts)... Anarcho-Libertarian Ron Paul supporter, who decided he was smarter than the Supreme Court, Congress and the President and didn't have to follow the whistleblowing procedures established by our elected representatives.
In 2013, he stole top secret documents revealing the Government's data mining operation that was actually revealed in a USA Today front-page story some seven years earlier in 2006.
He then fled US soil to China and then Russia because he had also let this cat out of the bag: The United States Government spies on foreign people.
Now he, like Donald Trump, tries to remain relevant by tweeting inane silliness and taking any interviews offered by disreputable media. That is, if we are talking about the same Edward Snowden, and not the branch manager of the Kinkos in West Lafayette, Indiana.
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)He's a traitor and a fugitive.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Is about the only course of action they have available unless they want to spend 30 years in a federal prison.
brush
(53,759 posts)Google it.
He's a defector guilty of sedition.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)the Constitution.
Obama just happened to be president when he opened his eyes to that reality.
brush
(53,759 posts)That doesn't sound like someone too concerned about the Constitution.
It sounds like the right wing repug he was before he suddenly "got his eyes opened to reality".
The reality was most likely a black president.
How else do you explain his "whistleblowers should be shot in the balls" comment when Bush was president?
frylock
(34,825 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)How many other enemies do you have? Of course, Hillary regards Iran as our enemy, so your list might start with that country.
senz
(11,945 posts)Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)They're certainly not our friend. Iran is closer to be a friend of America than Russia is to being one.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...you're declaring all kinds of people to be your enemies.
As for me, I have nothing against the Russian people.
A quote, just for you:
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" -- Abraham Lincoln
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Unless they renounce their current fascist leadership, they can't be our friends.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)You don't have to be their friend, but why do you want to be their enemy???
cstanleytech
(26,276 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Thu Jun 2, 2016, 01:52 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Snowden wasn't exiled. He fled to the enemy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2108896
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Standard RW authoritarian lies. DU might as well allow people to post that President Obama was "really" born in Kenya. At some point, facts matter.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 2, 2016, 01:58 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
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Explanation: Actually this is an issue of which even members on the DU have a difference of opinion on and its one you should know by now unless you are either new to the DU or have been hiding under a rock and havent noticed.
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Juror number #6 summed it up pretty well..........well done #6.
To the person who reported it, learn that honest disagreement is allowed here on the DU even when its your opinion that its RW.
2banon
(7,321 posts)Daaaaamm.
It's a racket, but damn it pays well.
In the wrong business I tell ya!
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...but I did arbitrarily decide not to go over 120." Intent doesn't matter nearly as much as people think it does when it comes to mishandling things...
randome
(34,845 posts)And since no evidence has emerged that Clinton let classified info roam free, she will not be charged.
Granted, there was the possibility of classified info being leaked, but (so far), no evidence that it actually was.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I, personally, have posted many links to stories about others who inadvertently released classified and sensitive information and were prosecuted.
You either mishandle national defense data or you don't.
Period.
Response to Fawke Em (Reply #64)
Name removed Message auto-removed
randome
(34,845 posts)They have different meanings. 'Released' would mean that someone else is in possession of classified documents. 'Mishandled' carries as much weight as a misdemeanor since she was actually in charge of the State Dept.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)and uninformed to understand the intricacies of her job. That right there disqualifies her...if true...from any higher office.
IOW, she, in essence claims she was in over her head. Can't have it both ways, logically.
randome
(34,845 posts)Hopefully they will do a better job of ushering her about when she's President.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)overworking themselves in 2-3 other positions and likely complicit...that's closer to what appears to have been happening.
Strictly my opinion. Lots still to come, make no mistake.
Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)http://www.lawteacher.net/resources/criminal-law/intent-specific-basic.php
BASIC INTENT
A basic intent crime is one where the mens rea is intention or recklessness and does not exceed the actus reus. In simple terms this means that the defendant does not have to have foreseen any consequence, or harm, beyond that laid down in the definition of the actus reus.
SPECIFIC INTENT
A specific intent crime is one where in theory the mens rea goes beyond the actus reus, in the sense that the defendant has some ulterior purpose in mind.
As a lawyer she would know this backwards and forwards. As SoS she would know what is required of her for security. So lets say she didn't have ANY nefarious intent at all. She would still fall under Basic Intent via recklessness.
randome
(34,845 posts)But every SoS had their own ways of getting around the rules. Clinton did it differently than others. Big deal.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Separation
(1,975 posts)In many posts I have explained that I dealt with classified intel on an almost daily basis. I have also told the tales of people losing their careers and being charged with mishandling classified materials. Here is one of those tales. In the operations room there are no cell phones allowed in, you have to leave them at the door. You also have to know the combination to get into said room. Once in the room there are many cabinets all with double combo locks or key locks on them, with said keys being locked into another lock box. One member forgot to engage one of the locks in a double locked cabinet and left for chow. The only thing that was unsecured in that room was that one lock on a double locked cabinet. While at chow, the Staff Duty Officer was making his rounds and found that the cabinet was not double locked. That member was brought up on charges, lost her security clearance and ended up in jail for 60 days.
Tell me, where was the intent on her part? It was an honest to goodness brain fart on her part and she was toasted and fried! Not many people have experience dealing with classified, secret, & top secret material. I do, I am familiar with people losing their jobs and not having many good outlooks on further jobs.
She knew, she was told not to have her own personal email server. To me it reeks of "I am above that and I can do what the hell I want", and it really pisses me off!
If she becomes the Democratic nominee Ill have two options. Either vote for her, or abstain from voting in the Presidential race. There is no way ever that I would vote for Trump in any lifetime.
randome
(34,845 posts)Different agencies, different situations. I won't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the situation. You probably have a clearer idea of what's involved. But there was no data compromised -that we know of- and I'm unaware of any law that prohibits such an arrangement. Especially with the understanding that security at State was never very good and every other SoS did similar -not the same- runarounds of the rules.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Separation
(1,975 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I really mean dumb.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I wish you the best and hope you have an amazing Thursday.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)thesquanderer
(11,982 posts)Where you typed "instead of" I think you meant "instead have"
Marr
(20,317 posts)why it's 'dumb'.
You're basically just huffing and puffing.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I won't lower myself to explain such obvious stupidity. It's pretty clear that a majority here get it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He certainly would beat Hillary.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)not a lying, pandering, war-loving, self-serving, corporate owned Turd way fraud.
The Clintons need to take their money and be gone. That all their questionably begotten wealth is not enough for them tells you all need to know. They need power, power and more power. And it sure ain't to help everyday Americans. Just look at the 2-for-1 Clinton legacy of NAFTA, the Telecommunications Act, the Crime and Welfare Deform bills, and the Gramm-Bliley-Leach act which overturned FDR's Glass-Steagall Banking Act. Then look what HRC did in the Senate and as SoS: aye votes on IWR, the Bankruptcy bill and the Patriot Acts I & II; devastating regime change in Honduras, Libya, Syria; arms deals with the Saudis that benefitted the Clinton Slush Fund (aka Foundation), worldwide promotion of fracking, and the private server to avert scrutiny of all!
As Bill said of Bush-Quayle in 1992: It's time for them to go
In 2016: It's time for Bill and Hill to go
Notwithstanding the false drumbeat here about Clinton being progressive.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)So, he would technically not be welcome here if he were to advocate for that sort of thing in the future.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)I think Hillary should be brought to justice.
and the whole charade of the last few decades addressed.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Now you guys love Snowden who disclosed loads of classified info?
You guys need to make up your minds.
MADem
(135,425 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
TwilightZone
(25,454 posts)They're not even comparable. For one of the parties, even assuming that data was somehow obtained by a third party, there's zero indication that it was intentional. Or classified, for that matter.
The other is Snowden.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Snowden was a whistleblower. Hillary's email problem is about her disregard for the law as SoS, and an extreme appearance of impropriety.
brush
(53,759 posts)During Bush's admin he was all for "whistleblowers being shot in the balls".
Google it. That's a direct quote from Snowden.
He's no hero, he blew that status when he disclosed details of his own country's covert, international operations.
He should have stopped at the domestic spying revelations.
He didn't. He fled to our two biggest international rivals who undoubtedly now have the gigabytes of info he stole.
He's a defector guilty of sedition.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)BTW, Bernie will not be the nominee.
brush
(53,759 posts)Wasn't he advocating that he himself should be shot in the balls?
Sorry to shatter your "Snowden is a hero" mindset, but no, he's a defector guilty of sedition who didn't know enough to stop at the domestic spying revelations, as he also divulged details of his own country's covert, international operations.
No getting around it. That's sedition.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...while Edward Snowden disclosed classified info dealing with malfeasance.
Try next time just a bit harder
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Snowden INTENDED to show the public that the US government was violating the Constitution.
Hillary INTENDED to keep her emails away from FOIA requests.
One committed a crime to show a bigger crime, while the other committed a crime to hide other criminal acts.
This isn't hard to figure out.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Snowden intended to disclose classified information and he did.
BTW, Bernie will lose the Democratic nomination.
Cheers!
Number23
(24,544 posts)Some of the stuff in this forum today is even more ridiculous than usual and that is truly saying something.
But I gotta say, that seeing some of the folks Flagged for Review has been a delightful surprise. Absolutely delicious. I really do think that given the hidden posts and flame outs, that alot of people who love to scream that "THIS. AIN'T. OVA!!!!!111one" are CLEARLY starting to realize that it is.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)The more dissension and turmoil, the better.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)See, the convention isn't until late July. The pivot here will be before that, which is plain silly, but I'm OK with it. I can go to JPR or Reddit.
When Bernie supporters go, you'll have the ghost town in a bubble you've been dreaming of.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Then the fun begins!
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)FarPoint
(12,309 posts)Now, I hate him.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He's a real "destroyer" all right!
No one thinks about him anymore--except maybe Glenn Greenwald, who didn't get as much dough out of him as he hoped to get...!
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)He found out who our alphabet soup agencies were REALLY spying on, and publicized it. Meanwhile, you've got General Betrayed-Us and Clinton running around, cavorting with classified information and they've yet to be run out. There is a double standard here-- rank and file American, you get chased, exiled, or imprisoned. Politician? You get barely a slap on the wrist, if that.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)The double standard is nauseating. Clinton isn't fit to be dogcatcher.
MineralMan
(146,282 posts)This doesn't even make sense.
boomer55
(592 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Roman Polanski is in the same boat.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Once you realize he was going to be confined to a state hospital for. Time.
brush
(53,759 posts)for divulging details of his own country's covert, international operations.
He forfeited his hero status when he didn't stop with the domestic spying revelations.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Now there's a surprise...
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)Cog-Dis-Itus epidemic.
and they still don't get it.
that's sad.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Jesus Christ, are you really content knowing your constitutionally protected rights were being trampled on freely by agencies held to exactly zero public accountability?!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Was your comment directed at the op? I think you replied to the wrong person.
Logical
(22,457 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It's really not difficult to see. Thank you for your input.
brush
(53,759 posts)he didn't stop at revelations of the domestic spying you so glowing speak of.
He divulged details of his own country's covert, international operations.
That's why he's no hero. He didn't know when to stop.
And btw, did you know he thought whistleblowers "should be shot in the balls" until Obama became president?
Google it.
cstanleytech
(26,276 posts)with you that he should be punished rather I am just disagreeing with your traitor accusation because US law is pretty clear on what is treason and what he did isnt treason.
Espionage? Maybe.
brush
(53,759 posts)and was possibly turned by Russian operatives.
It was after that that he signed on with Booz Allen and actively began stealing classified info.
His time spent in China after he fled, with room and board and without arrest, is curious, as is his continued room and board and stay in Russia.
840high
(17,196 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)Snowden destroys himself (again) is more like it. His whole road to Moscow has more than anything been an exercise in self-destruction. Add another page to the book.
RandySF
(58,684 posts)wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)_______ wasn't actually destroyed if he/she was not there at the time of the alleged 'destroying.'
annavictorious
(934 posts)What classification rules were broken?
I'm going to check Sanders's May FEC filings (if he ever releases them) to see if Snowden's on the payroll.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)He'll probably have his own show on Russia Today
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)became all outraged. Who the fuck cares what Snowden says.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)He could just come back and vote in person.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)and what he did goes far beyond that.
randome
(34,845 posts)I guess all the parading of his fiance was just for show. His 'fish out of water' fiance.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)Remember all the pathetic shit you used to say to attack Snowden. He doesn't understand FTP! Those are just powerpoint slides, they don't mean anything! LOL. Good memories.
randome
(34,845 posts)How many years have they been engaged now? 3 or is it going on 4? I lose track of time.
She and her 'fish out of water' comment make her out to be about as clueless as Snowden himself so they may have been a good match.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)I've called you out on it before but apparently you don't have a very good memory.
randome
(34,845 posts)But Snowden's lawyer hinted they may soon be married -almost two years ago so I guess that's not happening. Maybe the 'fish out of water' found a new pond. That's how prehistoric amphibians did it, you know.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Granted, the 'hint' from one of Snowden's attorneys was pretty vague.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)what question the lawyer was answering.
Pretty silly reason to attack Snowden.
randome
(34,845 posts)And now, nearly 4 years later...still nothing? Not that I put any stock in the institution of marriage, mind you. It just plays into the notion that Snowden was an isolated loner who couldn't relate well to others. Apparently he never related well to his girlfriend, either.
It's a common theme in his aborted military career, in his reversal of "shoot leakers in the balls" remarks, in how he fell under the influence of Glenn Greenwald and in how he mistakenly thought PRISM was basically a means of monitoring and downloading the entire Internet. He was so trapped inside his own head, imo, that he never questioned what he was doing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I know plenty of people in long term relationships who do not intend to get married.
You realize this is the quintessential means to discredit someone, when most Americans are social people: the loners must be Bad (TM).
Evidence?
Sources for any of this?
Actually if you listen to all his public interviews he is incredibly introspective and contemplative of the effects of his actions.
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)AliceWonderland
(1,069 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)MrWendel
(1,881 posts)he stopped giving Putin a lap dance long enough to tweet that. Donnie would be proud.
findrskeep
(713 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)Hyperbolic nonsense.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Silly thread
baldguy
(36,649 posts)RandySF
(58,684 posts)Why is he the one who's hiding in the Sanders' honeymoon destination?
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,335 posts)Thanks for the thread, berni_mccoy.