If Weaver is right, Sanders might not speak at the convention

[CrowCityDem]

Last night, the detestable Jeff Weaver was on Hardball. He said something truly frightening:

MATTHEWS: So you will ask for a speaking opportunity on Monday or Tuesday night while you’re still running on Wednesday night, that’s all I’m asking, is that the way it looks, right now?

WEAVER: Of course, Senator Sanders should have a prominent speaking role at the convention that would be ludicrous….

MATTHEWS: Even though he’s still a candidate going into Wednesday?

WEAVER: Especially because he’s a candidate going into Wednesday. He’s a candidate for President of the Unites States.

According to Weaver's words, Bernie Sanders expects to be given a primetime speaking slot on Monday or Tuesday night of the convention to use as a final bludgeon to try to wrest the nomination away from Hillary Clinton.

I'm sorry, but there is no way that the DNC would, or should, ever let Bernie on that stage unless and until he has conceded that the race is over. The convention is not a place for a campaign speech. If Bernie is intent on trying to flip delegates on the floor on Wednesday, he cannot be given a speaking slot before that.

This is another example of Sanders' ego inflating to the point where it will burst. There is not much that could make the convention more of a disaster than watching Bernie on all the networks still screaming about being the better candidate 48 hours before Hillary gives her acceptance speech.

It simply can't happen.

[BootinUp]

1. Weirder and weirder, Lets just invite Trump to a debate at the convention. nt

[CorkySt.Clair]

2. It'll never happen that way and Weaver knows it

Weaver and the lot are purposely trying to get Bernie booted from the prime time slots to incite Bernie's followers who come to the convention.

[HERVEPA]

55. Yeh, that makes sense. Why didn't i think of it.

[firebrand80]

3. In all honesty

I don't think Weaver understands how that all works.

Come to think of it, his not understanding the process explains a lot.

[emulatorloo]

4. Tad Devine understands the process, but apparently they've locked Devine in a basement somewhere.

[geek tragedy]

6. either that or he's the one handling the adult assignments of dealing with Clinton's people

and the DNC.

Weaver gets cable news.

[emulatorloo]

10. That theory makes a hell of lot of sense.

[geek tragedy]

12. Weaver likes being on television, Devine likes the idea of having clients in the future nt

[pangaia]

103. Hillary is in love with her ego

"I need to be president!!!" ME !

She and her husband both love power and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[geek tragedy]

104. bless your heart nt

[pangaia]

105. Thank you.

You too.

[seabeyond]

107. OMG... Sanders is all ego, talking third person and stating his crowds earned his win.

[kstewart33]

63. Where is Tad?

Haven't heard a peep from him in the last few weeks.

[still_one]

126. Any idea where Tad Devine has been? He has been keeping a low profile lately. Just curious.

[brush]

85. Come on, you get a lot of experience running a national campaign while running a comic book store

[AgingAmerican]

5. The 'Weaver!, Weaver!' obsession among Hillary supporters is bizarre

And pathetic.

[seabeyond]

20. He is the one out there talking. Are we suppose to ignore what he says, or pay attention?

[AgingAmerican]

41. You aren't addressing his words

You are attacking him personally.

The word is 'scapegoating'.


Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

[seabeyond]

43. Why yes, I think we're exactly talking about what he said, and how fucking stupid and childish it is

[AgingAmerican]

59. "Weaver!"

[seabeyond]

68. Should Sanders be allotted campaign speech time is the issue, in case you are the one not paying

attention to what is being discussed.

[AgingAmerican]

74. Of course he will, he is the runner up

"Weaver! Weaver! Weaver!"

[seabeyond]

75. Again, with the Weaver, your posts are silly.

[bkkyosemite]

76. Oh and they show such hate ...they call him a weasel too.

[randome]

124. No. He's just dumb.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[frylock]

87. It really is. Why don't we ever hear about Mook?

How much is he pulling? His client started out on third base, and now she's caught in a pickle between first and second. What the fuck is he doing to earn his check?

[jillan]

122. I agree. LOL. They have that slime ball Brock and they diss Weaver? It's just more hillaryty.

[AgingAmerican]

125. "Weaver" has become a scapegoat for them

[JimDandy]

129. It's projection. We have no awful Brock on our side, so they throw stuff,

crap, anything, together to try to will into existence a freakish copy of their Brock into our campaign.

A build-a-Brock workshop, if you will.

[AgingAmerican]

131. A cobbled together strawman

A jerry-rigged scapegoat

[FSogol]

7. Weaver didn't know what he was saying. That's why he fell into the tax trap.

He's lucky he doesn't get flop sweat like Reince Prebuis and Marco Rubio.

[geek tragedy]

8. Bernie can second his own nomination, but he's not going to bump Biden or Bill Clinton

or Elizabeth Warren unless he concedes

[ucrdem]

9. Pathetic.

That's about the only civil thing left to say.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Why shouldn't he speak? He's a prominant Democrat and spokesperson for the party.

Millions of Democrats voted for him in the primaries, millions support him.

How would that work with all the current cries for "unity"?

[emulatorloo]

14. Of course he will speak. But it won't be because of Jeff Weaver.

It will be for the reasons you list.

[CrowCityDem]

15. He absolutely should, if he concedes. The convention isn't a place for him to rail against Hillary.

Letting him continue running a campaign on national tv right before she accepts the nomination would be ridiculous.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Will he be required to sign a Loyalty Oath and agree to be censored?

Or, will he just be given a script to read?

[CrowCityDem]

17. Conventions are infomercials for the winning candidate, not a place for fighting (anymore).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Really? Were you around in '68?

[CrowCityDem]

19. Hence the "anymore". Times have changed. 68 was still only the party picking the winner.

[CorkySt.Clair]

44. Some can't close the yearbook on their salad days, apparently

[frylock]

88. Is that something you heard while binge watching West Wing for the 20th time?

[bettyellen]

23. People remember what came of '68, and also '80 and will not risk that to salve his ego.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Yes. In both elections the Democrats nominated candidates who offered "more of the same".

Both of whom were "not as bad" candidates. And, they lost.

[leftynyc]

45. Could be the first time

I've heard of Pres Carter spoken here with such disdain. Is there anybody in the party - past or present - that you respect? Or is anybody not genuflecting to Bernie enough just crap?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. I voted for Carter and came to respect him a lot.

I certainly admire and respect Bernie Sanders. In fact there's a long list of Democrats I respect. These two in particular:

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. John Quincy Adams(D)

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson(D)

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson(D)

[leftynyc]

51. Yet you tag him as

"more of the same". So Bernie and Democrats from 200 years ago. Well, I guess that answers my question nicely.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. I always endeavor to please.

You asked, I answered.

I also respect FDR, Henry Wallace, Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern, Bill Bradley, Edward Kennedy, Dennis Kucinich, and a host of other "modern" Democrats. The amount of respect varies with the candidates. I was unable to vote for FDR and Henry Wallace, but all the rest I did vote for and respect.

Some, however, exceeded my nose-holding abilities.

[seabeyond]

22. If he does not know how to appropriately behave at an invitation to our party, then he definitely

not be representative of the U.S., ya think?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. "Behave approprietely"? At a convention?

Yes. They're known as the epitome of polite society.

[HERVEPA]

57. Are you invited?

[seabeyond]

66. Really? Lol. That is your comeback? Whatever. Too funny.

[HERVEPA]

67. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

[seabeyond]

70. See, brilliant. That is all I am saying.

[frylock]

90. #bowdownbernie

[seabeyond]

97. Whatever it takes for him to be able to control himself. I get being a reactionary, that is a

challenge. Hence, the bad choice of him as President. That he could not even respectfully walk into our party convention without tantrums and fireworks surely makes him unfit to be in control dealing with world issues and leaders.

[frylock]

98. That's nice.

*yawn*

[mythology]

54. Calling Sanders a prominent Democrat is a stretch

He joined the party when it suited his needs after years of bashing the party. Has he ever said that he regrets calling the party ideologically bankrupt or that he would be a hypocrite to run as a Democrat?

He officially joined the party to benefit his ambition to be president. He avoided the day to day work of being in the party over the long term.

If the nomination vote is being "contested" (no matter how futilely) neither should speak before that vote.

[HERVEPA]

58. Your ignorance is showing. He consistently has caucused with and voted with the Democrats.

You should take that stupid meme and ...

[brush]

94. Ahhh . . . he did say those things about the party

And bye, he's filed papers as an independent for re-election to the senate in 2018'

Talk about covering all the bases. Is he really a Democrat, or just playing one on the campaign trail?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Why should "neither speak before that vote"?

Isn't Hillary running as a Democrat to "benefit" her ambition to be president?

[lostnfound]

81. Chase him away and don't be surprised when 25% of the Democratic Party follows. Nt

[seabeyond]

13. I agree totally with you. If he cannot represent Democrats uniting to endorse our GE candidate,

then he should not be part of the convention.

It is Clinton's celebration, not Sanders tantrum time.

[workinclasszero]

21. Weaver is a delusional asshole

IMO.

[aikoaiko]

24. What are you afraid of?

[CrowCityDem]

26. That Bernie will make it all about him, when it's supposed to be about US.

[aikoaiko]

31. I don't think you have anything to fear unless you mean he needs to not

speak about challenging the status quo.

I know HRC supporters are sensitive about this, but lots of convention speakers take an aspiration tone about achieving our highest ideals

But even if the only topic from Bernie was about how he is a better candidate to be the party's nominee, we would be be achieving something great by allowing that to happen. The votes will happen and HRC will most likely be the nominee. Bernie will endorse HRC just as he endorsed Obama twice.

Have confidence in the party. One speech couldn't possibly destroyor undermine all that the Clintons have built.

Its always a mistake to suppress discussion if you are a capable and confident leader.

[CrowCityDem]

32. What the heck are you saying?

Bernie giving a speech at the convention about how he's the better candidate is "something great", and at the same time it's an endorsement of Hillary? How in the world does that work?

If Bernie gives a speech about how he should be the nominee, it undercuts Hillary. No, it won't be lasting damage that can't be undone, but there's no reason to let it happen.

[aikoaiko]

33. I was saying that he could make his pitch and if didn't work then endorse HRC for POTUS.

got it?

[CrowCityDem]

35. No, I don't get it, because it makes no sense.

Let me see if I understand this:

Bernie gives a speech Tuesday night telling everyone that he's better than Hillary, and they're dopes for picking her.

Wednesday night, the votes are cast and Hillary is officially nominated.

Thursday night, now that he's a loser, Bernie endorses Hillary, just 48 hours after saying she shouldn't be the nominee.

How is that helpful to anyone?

[aikoaiko]

64. I don't think I can explain it any better. Like I said I don't think

Bernie is going to get up there and rip the party or HRC. Even for the last few months his criticisms have been tame.

I suspect you want the convention to be a HRC lovefest instead of an actual convention of ideas and discussion and ultimately a vote followed by the nominees address to the convention and nation.

Again, trying to suppress discussion is a bad way to go.

[CrowCityDem]

72. That's what a modern convention is, a lovefest.

Everyone except for Bernie knows the race is over, and that Hillary is going to be nominated. Fighting it out on primetime tv can only hurt.

[seabeyond]

73. Sanders well knows it is over and still wanting his tantrums and be disruptive and disrespectful. NT

[notadmblnd]

80. He's been saying it for months

Please, explain how saying it one more time at the convention would be anymore hurtful.

Thanks in advance for your answer.

[chascarrillo]

36. I am sure there will be no speeches at all about Hillary.

Jesus, the argumentation on display here!

[geek tragedy]

38. every speech will be pro-Hillary, since the entire point of the convention is to help

her defeat Trump.

anyone who doesn't share that goal probably doesn't have a constructive role to play at the convention.

[chascarrillo]

40. Take it up with CrowCityDem. -nt-

[geek tragedy]

42. eh, crowcitydem isn't in charge of scheduling speakers at the convention.

neither is Bernie Sanders.

Robbie Mook and the Clinton campaign are.

Weaver was his usual delusional self, which isn't cause for alarm.

[frylock]

91. #ImWithHer

[BobbyDrake]

25. Jeff Weaver isn't known for his history of accurate statements.

[frylock]

93. As opposed to Hillary.

[Surya Gayatri]

27. That unhinged exchange alarmed me, too.

It's obvious that Weaver has no idea how a convention is organized or what its purpose is.

I can only hope that Devine is more experienced, and that he will be a more reasonable voice in the Berning One's inner sanctum.

[k8conant]

30. Matthews seems to think agendas are set in stone...

of course, maybe DNC has done that already.

[frylock]

95. Probably 8 years ago.

[chascarrillo]

34. "The convention is not a place for a campaign speech."

[geek tragedy]

37. it's a place to campaign for the nominee, not against the nominee.

so either Bernie admits he lost, or he gets to give a 1992 Jerry Brown style mini-speech.

[chascarrillo]

39. The convention determines the nominee. The delegates vote for the nominee.

This is what conventions are for and how they work. You seem to be suggesting that delegates pledged to Sanders shouldn't vote for him, since they're only supposed to be there for the winner. This is an amazing argument.

[geek tragedy]

46. the voters determine the nominee, the convention is an infomercial

That is how conventions actually do work. They're a coronation, an inauguration.

Trump will be running the Republican convention to maximize his own benefit, and Clinton will be running to maximize her own benefit.

His delegates get to vote for him, but he doesn't get to set the speaking schedule. The winner does.

Winning the primary vote means running the convention, as well as being the nominee.

Obama's people ran the 2008 convention, and Hillary will be running the 2016 convention.

if Bernie wanted a speaking slot to promote his own candidacy, he should have won the voting.

[chascarrillo]

61. "They're a coronation". Keep digging that hole!

What was 1968? 1980?

"For me, a few hours ago, this campaign came to an end. For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." - Ted Kennedy.

Did you tell Ted Kennedy to fuck off like you're telling Sanders to, geek tragedy?

[geek tragedy]

77. 1968 and 1980 are (a) ancient history from another era and were (b) complete

disasters.

The winner of the primary voting runs the convention. That's how things have worked for the past quarter century.

Bernie can always self-nominate like Jerry Brown did.

[hack89]

49. No. The nominee has been chosen by the voters

the convention will formalize that choice but they will not over turn it. The SDs will not steal the nomination for Bernie.

[Hortensis]

99. Whatever. I do hope

Sanders is able to speak as a member of the team determined to defeat as many Republicans and Libertatians and elect as many Democrats to office as possible. It may take a little more negotiating, but hopefully it will happen.

[leftynyc]

47. If he doesn't suspend his campaign

I wouldn't even let him in the door.

[geek tragedy]

48. They probably have to, but he doesn't get anything better than the Jerry Brown treatment nt

[MattP]

52. I'm glad Weaver said the Tax returns are coming out

Bernie gave his word

[beachbumbob]

53. Sanders intent to scorch earth our nominee...no business talking

His true character is turning off many of his supporters....no class....no grace


He lost...grow up

[Tarc]

56. If Sanders does not formally concede before the convention, then he can sit home and watch on tv.

Edit - And happy 7,000th post to me!

[StevieM]

60. Congratulations on 7K posts!! (eom)

[HERVEPA]

69. I could be wrong, but I don't think that is your decision to make.

And of course it makes a lot of sense to piss off Bernie supporters more.

[StevieM]

71. I assume that this will all work itself out.

Obama will speak in prime time (10 PM) on Monday night.

Sanders will speak on Tuesday night.

The VP nominee will speak on Wednesday night.

Hillary will speak on Thursday night.

Bill Clinton, Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren will give the warm-up speeches. Meaning they will speak at 9:30 right before the prime time speakers. I am not sure who the fourth warm-up speaker will be. Maybe Kirsten Gillibrand.

[Octafish]

78. ''Detestable.''

Gee. What do you call someone who takes millions and millions from Wall Street and makes war on Muslims all day?

[Blue Meany]

79. In 2008, Hillary made a speech the day before the roll call vote at

Convention. Why is this different?

[CrowCityDem]

82. She had already conceded. Her speech was about the Democratic party coming together.

The problem isn't with Bernie speaking. It's with what Weaver said, which is that he wants to use that as a campaign speech to convince the superdelegates to overturn the election right before they nominate Hillary like everyone knows they will.

[MyNameGoesHere]

83. Sanders should

Only be allowed to sweep up the convention center after all the winners have left. If he needs it televised so be it.

[frylock]

96. Bless your heart.

[brooklynite]

84. IN 2008, Ron Paul left the GOP Convention and held his own event with cheering crowds...

I think you'll agree that his Administration was one for the history books...

[frylock]

86. He's so detestable, the way he's made your candidate actually work for the nomination.

The fucking NERVE!

[CrowCityDem]

89. The straw man wants to know why you're beating him.

[frylock]

92. ..

[seabeyond]

108. He could have done that, in integrity, how he campaigns. He chose not to.

[Blue_Tires]

100. Meh, let him speak... The die is already cast

[passiveporcupine]

101. It would not be a campaign speech

But I get that you guys don't understand that. You've never understood what he was about. Or why we back him.

[CrowCityDem]

102. What would you call a speech designed to flip the supers? That's what Weaver threatened.

[passiveporcupine]

106. I doubt it will be a speech designed to flip supers

(I think that will be done one-on-one). I think it will be a speech to change the direction of the party, while he's still in a position to be on that stage, representing us...those of us who want to see a change in the direction of the party.

[CrowCityDem]

110. I'm just reacting to what Weaver said. He indicated it.

[passiveporcupine]

111. I don't think he indicated that

I think he was saying that while Bernie is still in the race, he has a right to be up on the stage, giving a speech.

Actually, even if he conceded, I think, due to his popularity and support, he has a right to be up on that stage giving a speech, but I doubt the establishment party will see it that way.

[CrowCityDem]

114. People in his position always speak... once they've conceded.

[passiveporcupine]

115. So basically you are afraid of him speaking before conceding

I get that. That's what all of the arguments about bernie math and everything here lately have been about. You fear the power he has by having over 10 million votes. You fear that maybe half the democratic party (maybe more, maybe less) might not want the same thing you do.

Well, we are afraid too. We are afraid there will be no movement left of the party once the nominee is chosen. We are far more afraid than you are, and for very good reason.

[CrowCityDem]

116. Yes. I don't trust him to do the right thing. He's always been ungracious.

[passiveporcupine]

119. OK, no more conversation.

You would not want to hear how I feel about Hillary. I'm not even going there, because I thought we were discussing real issues...not personalities. I should have known better.

[CrowCityDem]

120. The issue: I haven't heard a primary night concession from Bernie. No reason to think he will now.

[seabeyond]

109. It would be a speech trashing the Democratic party, which we do not want at our party.

[DrDan]

112. I watched that interview - he looked like a deer-in-the-headlights when asked that question - like

he just did not get it even though asked several times

[Demsrule86]

113. If Sanders has not conceded and endorsed, no speech and no platform goodies.

The convention is to close to November to allow the spectacle of Bernie attacking our nominee at our convention. He needs to concede and endorse...if not then take the vote on Weds...and out he goes...he only needs to be there for the vote...and out he goes. He is not helping to unify anyway and just makes trouble.

[trudyco]

117. This primary season is different from any I've known in my life

So anything goes. It could very well be that during the convention Bernie will still be fighting for the people who support him. There's a heck of a lot of us, more than Hillary fans if you count independents, but I know DUers backing Hillary choose to ignore that.

It may be that Hillary will be Indicted or Implicated in a criminal scandal. There are hints of that for both the emails and the Clinton Foundation and in several areas. People may want to rethink things even if she has the Delegates at the time of the convention.

Iit's possible that the convention will be about Bernie versus another candidate put in by the DNC to replace Hillary, who takes a plea deal to drop out of the race in exchange for not getting a criminal charge. That's unprecedented as far as I know. Certainly worth hearing both sides before making a decision.

I don't know why it would be wrong if Bernie decides to make one last pitch for why his progressive stance is what is best for representing the party and best for the world. You'd think that's what a National Convention should be. Lots of possibilities this year. One that shouldn't be is making people or candidates lock step behind a nominee just because the DNC says so... sounds so ... Republican. Democrats are much more open minded. Sometimes that makes things messy but oh well. We like open mindedness.

[Demsrule86]

128. It is too close to November

and would ruin the convention...we probably would not even get a bounce or generate any good feelings...he either gets out or no convention for him...vote and escort him out if he has not endorsed...we salvage the convention while the sore losers riot no doubt...time to stop coddling a guy who is now helping Trump. The election is what is important...Bernie can either climb aboard the Democratic train and beat the crap out of Trump or get out of the way...makes little difference to me what he does.

[joshcryer]

118. Weaver is a POS used car salesman.

Sanders will concede.

[jillan]

121. It will happen. Bernie will speak at the convention for the 10 million + people that support him.

Got it?

[Joe the Revelator]

123. Your quote: The convention is not a place for a campaign speech.

It's like you don't even really know what a convention is.

[CrowCityDem]

127. It's where the primary ends. You don't keep running the primary there.

[itsrobert]

130. Odds are Bernie will speak at the Election

Weaver is almost always wrong.

[anotherproletariat]

132. Oh wouldn't that be happy thing! nt