Hillary supporters: How is Hillary's and your claiming victory prematurely going to unite the party?

[cui bono]

I've seen more than one OP now about Hillary's victory speech and winning the nom by this Tuesday.

Now, we all know the rules. The rules to clinching the nom before the convention are having PLEDGED delegates. SUPER delegates do not get counted until the convention because that's when they vote.

Yet many Hillary supporters insist - in an oh so smug and arrogant manner - on saying she will win the nomination on Tuesday and that it will be called for her after the NJ results are in, before CA.

We all know CA is shaky ground for Hillary, so I can see why you all would want it called before the CA results are in, and it may well be called by the MSM since they are the corporate mouthpiece. That does not, however, make it true and by doing so, by stating something that is so blatantly false you and Hillarly exhibit such hubris and arrogance and disregard for the voters and democracy itself I don't see how you think you are going to earn the support of Bernie supporters.

So I have to ask, since you all want party unity with Hillary as the nominee, how is this going helping to achieve that? The only outcome I can see coming from it is further alienation of any voter that you should be trying to win over.

And I see post after post of Hillary supporters saying Bernie should show grace and class, how is declaring a victory before there can possibly be one based on the rules exhibiting class and grace?

.

[Scootaloo]

1. You think they actually care about unity?

[joshcryer]

2. I care about as much as Obama did in 2008.

[bvf]

7. Sure they do.

It's apparent from all the licking of chops as some mark off their calendars until the 15th--as if that were to carry any meaning to anyone except a website owner with the predictable allegiance.

Not 15 minutes ago, I read the latest in a still-growing list of posts saying that Sanders supporters don't matter.

Lots more Bernie butters in evidence lately, too, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe they're just more obvious for their increased transparency as the reserves get called up. I dunno.

[Live and Learn]

10. +10,000 nt

[demwing]

67. LPCBBs

Low Post Count Bernie But-ers

[Fumesucker]

3. This isn't about Hillary, this is about not-Bernie

If Hillary gets indicted before the convention and Bernie is still running he becomes something close to the presumptive nominee, that will not be allowed to happen.

[cui bono]

8. Yep Funny that they think they are progressive and yet they abhor the first real progressive

candidate we've had in decades.

Okay, I don't really believe they think they are progressive, they just want us to think it.

.

[Skink]

83. HRC supporters haven't thought that out yet.

[nenagh]

84. Exactly. and before choosing a candidate, I for one...

would like to hear Bryan Pagliano's testimony

[geek tragedy]

104. Lol, the winner declaring victory is not about Bernie, it's about the winner

sour grapes and praying to the Indictment Fairy don't change that reality

Sanders is irrelevant to what happens tomorrow night, and thereafter

[Demsrule86]

4. She wins on Tuesday

Hillary becomes the presumptive nominee. How does denying reality help unity? It is not premature...Bernie should have conceded after New York.

[cui bono]

11. No, she doesn't. How does claiming victory prematurely help unity?

Why should Bernie have conceded after NY?

.

[beachbum bob]

27. really ? becasue after New York the delegate lead became insurmountable

actually I never expect any primary candidate to concede.. I expect once its obvious they lost, they find some class and character and accept and start focusing on unity. Sanders has no intentions...he is too ego driven.

He is no 2008 hillary clinton who the set the bar of what it means to have class and be gracious after a MUCH HARDER and bitter primary fight with obama and her supporters WAY more bitter than this sanders bunch.


sanders is becoming more disappointing to more people every day

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Hillary stayed in until June, forcefully stated her case for doing so and condemned those who

asked her to drop out as undemocratic and possibly sexist. She said it was historically unprecedented to call for a candidate to drop out, claimed she was the only candidate it had ever been done to. She cited the murder of RFK in June as reason to have two candidates the whole time, and few of us saw that as gracious or classy. Because it was horrible.

So that's the actual history.

[PufPuf23]

62. Your recollection of the 2016 history is accurate. Thank you.

One can put the demands for Sanders to drop out in the context that there have been calls from the Hillary Clinton campaign for Sanders to drop out for months now.

No one expected Sanders to do as well as what has occurred.

I support Sanders but never have expected Sanders to prevail over Clinton.

More recently I have suspected that one reason for some wanting Sanders to drop out before the vote at the convention is that iy would be easier to replace Clinton with another candidate (many have suggested Biden) should Clinton's legal issues have gravitas effecting her nomination.

[onenote]

110. It is June. And Clinton will be declaring victory under a similar set of facts as Obama:

Obama claimed victory the day he had a combination of pledged delegates and commitments from super delegates sufficient to give him the nomination when formally acted on at the convention.

If Clinton waits until after the California vote is in, she would be in the exact same fact since by that point she, like Obama, will have a majority of the pledged delegates. But let's say she gets 50 percent in New Jersey and 40 percent in New Mexico and that information is known before the 11 o'clock new back east and she times her victory announcement for between 10:30-11:00 (before the CA polls close but after they've been open for more than 12 hours). If she needs fewer than 30 percent of the delegates in CA (which would be the case under my scenario), and she has additional super d commitments, then there is no reason for her not to make her speech at that time rather than wait until after 11 pm east coast time.

I will give you this much. If she fails to get 50 percent in NJ, she should hold off until after 11.

[Demsrule86]

49. She is the presumptive nominee and becomes official at the convention

This is how it always works. Sanders is out on Tuesday...and here at DU on the 16th the primary is over. Bernie should have conceded after New York because he had no path...he had a slim one before New York but had none after New York. The entire after New York primary is a waste of time and money.

[bvf]

12. Nope.

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

It's gotten so ridiculous that now people are speaking of the future in the present tense.

This isn't Tralfamadore, and you don't have an in with the natives there.

You're embarrassing yourself.

By all means, keep going.

[Demsrule86]

55. You guys are embarrassing yourselves

What is Bernie going to do on Wednesday...keep having rallies in order to win a nomination that has been won by someone else? Hillary will be the presumptive nominee...at the convention, she becomes the official nominee and the presumptive title is removed. Time for Bernie to concede and endorse. Bernie has lost and his undemocratic idea of flipping supers has no chance. I think he needs money...and that is why he wants to continue...that and he likes the attention.

[PufPuf23]

64. The "undemocratic" idea of the super-delegates are the rules established by the Democratic party.

I do not think Sanders will prevail and have in fact never thought Sanders would win the nomination but am a Sanders supporter anyway.

I get the ideas behind the super-delegate system but they are nigh inconceivable to flip to Sanders even if there is some dire consequence to Clinton behind now and the convention.

Why is it necessary to diminish Sanders?

Hillary Clinton did not pay off her campaign debt from 2008 until 2013 and ultimately received money from POTUS Obama and much money was raised by Bill Clinton. There were complaints from 2008 vendors to Clinton that her campaign stiffed them.

The idea that Sanders is out for "attention" is a cheap shot. Any politician is an attention seeker to some degree. One could just as easily frame Sanders as heroic in the uphill and probably doomed from the start quest.

Clinton is looking to be prominent in history as the first female POTUS.

[bvf]

68. Please check back

once you've mastered a language--any language.

You remind me of someone--long since gone from DU--with similar issues.

Don't PM me.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

70. win or lose, we keep the revolution going

What you all fail to realize, is IF she wins, we stay the course. We will critique and protest her from the left while the GOP attacks her from the right. So the 15th means diddly, we've got 4 more years to go. There will be no sitting down and shutting up this time.

[Demsrule86]

108. Nonsense-not only will your 'revolution' not surive but we loose all progress since Roosevelt

Do you really think any revolution could survive five court picks by Trump? If you do...I have bridges to sell you...real cheap.

[Sky Masterson]

5. They helped solidify my opinion on mending bridges

Why fix a bridge that takes you to where the @$$holes are?
It seems we can choose between 3 bridges until the convention.
We can fix the bridge to where the jerkys are,
We can fix the Bridge where the orange devil resides,
Or we can stay on our Island where we can sleep at night sacrificing none of our integrity and watch the critters throw poo at each other and shout at us from across the way for not covering our own hands in poo.
To get us to sling poo you need to give us someone to give a shit about.

[vintx]

60. Well said. nt

[HooptieWagon]

6. There's no indication they want unity or a coalition.

It'll be a disaster, but a highly entertaining one, watching the Third Way flounder to Whig levels of support.

[cui bono]

38. This thread is certainly making that clear.

I don't want Hillary or Trump, but if Trump does win Hillary and her supporters can blame themselves for acting like... you know.

.

[RBInMaine]

9. How does denying sheer reality and threatening protests at the convention help unity?

Bernie has LOST. For the millionth or so time, it is called MATH. It is called INDISPUTABLE FACTS.

After Tuesday, Hillary Clinton will have secured the nomination because she will have WAY more votes, WAY more pledged delegates, and enough committed super delegates to take her well over the top.

Bernie needs to simply accept what he said at the very beginning of the campaign. That it was going to be very hard to defeat Hillary Clinton. He has done better than expected and now has a chance to gracefully concede, unite, and help us defeat Trump as he said he'd do.

Bernie will not be the nominee. That's hard for his die hard supporters to accept, but that is life. What now? Sulk away and cry in soup, claiming delusions like "fraud" and all the rest, or ADULT UP, accept the plain facts, and move on to the great cause this year which is the YUGE defeat of the crazy devil who is FrankenTrump.

[cui bono]

14. No, you are wrong.

You clearly do not know the difference between pledged and super delegates. Please go study up before you post. This is getting ridiculous.

You guys are asking for PUMA with your attitude so don't go complaining and blaming others if it happens.

.

[Sky Masterson]

15. This is how they build bridges

.

[PufPuf23]

66. There will be protests at the convention for two very real reasons over and above the

specific candidacy of Bernie Sanders:

1) Antiwar.

2) No representation of those that do not support neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism and do not want those philosophies to lead the Democratic party or nation.

The situation echoes 1968.

I never expected Sanders to win the Democratic nomination nor did I expect Sanders to do so well but am glad that he did; the outcome has been revealing, to me in not a good way.

[BeyondGeography]

13. She was much closer to Obama than Bernie is when Obama declared victory

in 2008. And she was much closer to him than Bernie will be when she suspended her campaign and endorsed him on June 7, 2008.

This is how adult Democrats do it:

The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States.

(APPLAUSE)

Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.

(APPLAUSE)

And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.

(APPLAUSE)

I have served in the Senate with him for four years. I have been in this campaign with him for 16 months. I have stood on the stage and gone toe-to-toe with him in 22 debates. I've had a front-row seat to his candidacy, and I have seen his strength and determination, his grace and his grit.

In his own life, Barack Obama has lived the American dream, as a community organizer, in the State Senate, as a United States senator. He has dedicated himself to ensuring the dream is realized. And in this campaign, he has inspired so many to become involved in the democratic process and invested in our common future.

Now, when I started this race, I intended to win back the White House and make sure we have a president who puts our country back on the path to peace, prosperity and progress. And that's exactly what we're going to do, by ensuring that Barack Obama walks through the doors of the Oval Office on January 20, 2009.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/us/politics/07text-clinton.html

She lost, she took the first big step to unify, a Democrat won the White House.

That's how it's done. And the reason this is so complicated for Sanders and she's supposed to tippy-toe around him is what again?

[cui bono]

16. There was much less at stake in 2008 because they are virtually identical

save for the IWR stance.

This is not about Hillary or Bernie. This is about our very democracy. Bernie is desperately trying to save it from big money and Hillary doesn't want to, she is happy with the corporate turn the party took with Bill Clinton.

.

[BeyondGeography]

18. As Joe Stalin once said, everyone has their reasons

There is always a lot at stake. After Tuesday, the thing that will be most special about Bernie Sanders will be his inability to come to terms with the fact that he won't be the nominee.

[cui bono]

22. You don't understand what this election is about.

It's not about Hillary vs. Bernie, it's about our very democracy. You can try to understand that or you can keep making snarky comments and alienating people you believe you will need in the future.

.

[mythology]

28. And your great hope to "save" democracy requires overturning the voters

Apparently one has to beat democracy in order to save it or something.

Clinton will be the nominee after Tuesday. There is no reason to think the super delegates will overrule the voters.

[cui bono]

32. Where did I say anything about overturning the voters... ?

She will not be the nominee after Tuesday. That's not what the rules state.

Now, since you think she will be, what are you going to do to get people on board and wanting to vote for her? Do you think all the arrogant posts on DU are helping with that cause?

.

[BeyondGeography]

30. Many HRC supporters in 2008, and I wasn't one of them, were just as upset

They had their reasons, too.

I think you're the one with comprehension difficulties. Most every Democrat I know shares the same basic domestic policy goals. There are legitimate disagreements on priorities, how to get there and who is best suited to be President. That's what a year's worth of primary campaigning has been about. Most people are ready to move on and, after June 15 the latest, they really shouldn't have to wait for the runner-up to make up his mind about when they are able to do that.

[cui bono]

34. Not this time. There are stark differences in the two Dem Party candidates.

This is not about two people, this is about core principles and the direction of the country, not even just the party.

That is why Bernie wants to take it to the convention. And if anyone on here is really a progressive they would be happy about it, but then they would already be supporting him since he is the only progressive candidate running. And that is the point. This is about the half of the party that is sick of corporate control of our govt and all the independents who are as well and whose votes will be needed.

So how are Hillary and her supporters going to get those voters on board? Surely not with the posts we've been seeing on DU lately.

So what's the plan then? How is the unity going to happen?

.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. No, Democrats do not share the same domestic policy goals, many of us have spent a lifetime

fighting with the conservatives in our own Party to get basic rights. So many Democrats hindered and opposed my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. For the bulk of my lifetime, and we only get one lifetime.
Smug makes me remember all of that and despise those who opposed, the DOMAcrats.

[BeyondGeography]

45. What social policies are we fighting about now?

[passiveporcupine]

92. She did not concede until the primaries were over in 2008

And even then she had to think about it and discuss it with her advisors.

And yet many here are declaring her the winner now before Cali totals are even announced. And Washington DC has yet to vote.

But the point is, if she thought she could have flipped the supers (and she thought about it), she still might have contested. She chose not to. That was her right. It would have been her right to contest it as well.

She didn't 'lose' after the primaries. She wouldn't have 'lost' until the convention. She chose to concede early.

[BeyondGeography]

97. Because she could run for the WH again and there was zero point in continuing

I would be surprised if Bernie did the adult thing right away because this was his one shot at the presidency and he will never enjoy this level of attention again. But the downside of intransigence will become quickly apparent and five or six weeks of getting hammered by everyone who matters to his political future except his diehard supporters will be too much for him. The world will move on and hopefully so will he before too long.

[onenote]

99. Correct. But as soon as they were over Obama was claiming the nomination and the media agreed

Even BEFORE she suspended her campaign a few days later.

But this time around, some folks want to apply a different standard than the one applied just 8 years ago.

No one -- and I mean absolutely no one -- denies that the nomination doesn't become official until the convention.

But only one group denies that when a candidate has a combination of pledged delegates and public commitments from enough super delegates to put them over the nomination threshold, that candidate is rightfully considered the presumptive nominee. That presumption will get stronger or weaker as the convention approaches. If Clinton obtains more super delegates it will get stronger. If Sanders begins flipping delegates it will get weaker. Theoretically, the presumption could be flipped, not that I see any likelihood of that happening.

But hiding one's head in the sand or putting ones fingers in one's ears isn't going to change the simple fact that when a candidate has enough pledged and super delegates prepared to vote for them at the convention, they are the presumptive nominee until something happens to change that presumption.

[passiveporcupine]

109. It doesn't matter who claims it or agrees.

Until the conference votes are in, nobody won.

that candidate is rightfully considered the presumptive nominee.

You are correct..."presumptive".

That is not a given, even if people usually drop out of the race at that time.

[Lil Missy]

17. Your premise is flawed. It's not premature. As for uniting the party ...

frankly, that's up to Sanders and his supporters. So many of you have dug in your heels and insisted you will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. Why waste time on people like that?

And also as irrational are those who won't vote for her, yet insist Hillary Camp throw you a bone, or kiss your asses in the name of "uniting the party".

No.

[cui bono]

23. Absolutely not. It's up to Hillary to unite the party if she is the nominee.

Wow, you just don't want to take responsibility for anything do you.

With your attitude you won't win over not one vote. How is Hillary going to win then if she is the nominee?

.

[Lil Missy]

42. By getting the majority of votes. With, or without you. n/t

[justiceischeap]

47. What's funny about your statement is history

In the 2008 Primary, as the loser whose votes and support were closer to Obama than Sanders is now, it was her job to unite the party because Obama needed her supporters to win the White House.

Now, it looks likely she will be the presumptive nominee and it's her job, yet again, to unite the party.

So what role does Sanders play in all this? The majority of Americans don't feel the way you do, they think Clinton is the person for the job, otherwise Sanders would be winning, so what is his role when she wins the convention? Nothing? He just slinks away and leaves the party (declaring his Independent status once again) to go back to his comfy job in the Senate?

[Waiting For Everyman]

19. Completely agree, I sure won't be recognizing her

as the nominee before the convention vote. And "presumed" no, not with the FBI active.

That's just a self-indulgent fantasy the other side is wrapped up in.

[YouDig]

20. It's not premature, she'll claim victory when she reaches a majority.

[cui bono]

25. A majority does not clinch the nomination. A certain amount is needed and she cannot reach it.

So yes, it will be premature if she declares victory.

.

[YouDig]

29. Yes it does. Sorry, the rest of us don't go by #berniemath.

[cui bono]

36. There you go, proving my point again.

Sometimes being right is a terrible thing. I wish you had proven me wrong.

.

[YouDig]

44. No, you proving mine. #berniemath

[beachbum bob]

21. like this...hillary went thru a much harder and CLOSER primary fight with Obama in 2008

after it was apparent Obama won,,and was declared the preservative nominee...what did hillary do? Did she threaten to contest the convention? Did she threaten or undercut obama's campaign??? Nope...once obama had secured the nomination...btw weeks earlier than this one...hillary (and bill) tone entirely changed....she didn't bow out but stopped the campaign against Obama and started the focus on Mccain and bringing her supporters over to obama....after the conventions the clintons did everything they could do to see obama elected and they are most likely the main reason it happened.

This is not the case here, now with bernie...and why many say he lacks class and character. He has known for a month he has lost and knows hillary will be declared the winner on tuesday....he lacks the temperament to be president just as much as trump does

[cui bono]

31. This is an entirely different situtation though, with much more at stake.

We've never had a candidate like Bernie who is fighting for our very democracy at such a critical point in history when corporations are poised to take over the world, literally, with the help of even the Dem leaders. Obama wants the TPP bad and you know Hillary would enact it given the chance. Bernie is the ONLY candidate who stands up against that and corporate control of our govt.

It is so much bigger than Hillary vs. Bernie. That Hillary supporters don't see that is where the problem lies. That Hillary supporters are so rude and arrogant and cannot grasp what is going on with the people of this country right now will most likely be what damages the Democratic Party. It has gone so far right since Bill Clinton embraced the DLC corporate plan that I don't see it coming back and when the left is treated with this much disdain and when we see how far gone the right wing of the Dem Party is, I don't see how we can be in the same party together any more.

So what are Hillary and her supporters going to do about that feeling that almost half the Dem Party has? That many independents that Hillary needs if she is the nominee have?

For her to win she needs our votes. How is she going to get them? What are she and her supporters going to do to get them? Continuin to insult Bernie is not going to do that.

.

[Surya Gayatri]

24. This from the self-help column in today's paper:

[cui bono]

26. Gotta love how you guys keep proving my point.

You just can't help yourselves, can you?

You think she's won, so what is your plan to make sure she wins the GE, keep acting like that? That's really going to get people to come to your aid.

.

[Fumesucker]

33. I think this is their tacit admission that Hillary is likely to be indicted

I kind of fantasize a bit about all the brazillions of loyalty oaths coming home to roost in a cloud that blots out the sun and turns day to night.

Inshallah.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. I see crap like that and it strikes me that Camp Clinton has no desire to win in November and

no thought about how to do so. Self indulgent and just nasty spirited junk posts.

[Demsrule86]

37. I would like to add that my three kids who are Bernie supporters will vote for Hillary Clinton. nt

I think there are more like my kids than Bernie or bust.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Skinner's thing about "get it out of your systems" - everyone reads that as Sanders supporters.

But what I think we're seeing is a positive flood of hill folk engaging in just that.

On some level, they realize that soon they're just not going to continue be able to throw the same sort of low-brow, insulting gibberish at people here.

And a lot of them don't know what they'll do with themselves.

[cui bono]

43. You are correct, except....

I don't think they believe they will have to ever stop. I believe they read it as "we won so naner naner naner".

.

[grasswire]

81. watch the tumbleweeds roll down the main street of GD

as a coyote howls in the distance and the saloon piano player falls asleep.

[Nonhlanhla]

46. Premature??

This primary has been effectively over for at least 2 months. It's only rabid Bernie supporters, and their candidate himself, who can't see that. After Tuesday Hillary will have the majority of pledged delegates. The superdelegates will go with the winner of the pledged delegate vote like they always do, since they have no real reason to switch to the runner-up. Bernie's decision to take this to the convention is disastrous, since it poses a very real risk for the GE, as history shows.

After Tuesday Hillary Clinton will be the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party, and this will become official at the convention. To say this is not premature, since she will have the majority of pledged delegates. The fact that you think Bernie is such a special snowflake that the rules don't apply to him, does not change that fact.

[mmonk]

48. They don't need us. We're throw aways.

Where else are we going to go?

[Renew Deal]

50. There is no helping some people

But those that deal in reality know the truth. It's almost over whether Bernie can accept it or not.

[Renew Deal]

51. Why is California magically more important than the other 57 contests?

[Warren DeMontague]

96. It's not. However, California has 34 million people.

And the West Coast continually gets blown off by East Coast and beltway types who like to pretend the Known Universe ends at the Holland Tunnel.

[Trust Buster]

52. A phony premise. Most Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary. The more extreme ones on

political forums like this one won't vote for Hillary but their numbers are small. Hillary is the presumptive nominee and most Democrats except that. Radicals need not apply.

[book_worm]

53. It worked when Obama did it in 2008

You can take your marbles and play if you want but after next week it's taking on Trump and not having to campaign against another Democrat.

[CrowCityDem]

54. It's always considered over when pledged + SD gets the majority. Bernie wants different rules...

... for the race because he's in it. Sorry, not going to happen. When Obama hit the number with SDs, they called it. When Hillary gets there, they'll do the same.

[Metric System]

56. What do you think presumptive nominee means?

[timlot]

57. Oh Boy. Bernie supporter Ass Kissing can only go on for so long.

At the end of the day it is YOUR country and Your Supreme Court that is at stake. Is it Bernie's ideas or the man? If its the man his supporters seem to be infatuated with then its a lost cause because Bernie is not going to be nominee. If its his idea, well they are more likely to come fruition in a Hillary administration than a Trump.

[Hydra]

58. Team Hill is desperate for the win

And as for claiming things that are incorrect...that's been everything they've done since the beginning. I'm reminded of the Monty Python skit about the dead parrot...and this is the best Brock can do.

[wendylaroux]

59. would not matter what hillco does,Bernie was the reason many people

got into the primary. Hills is/was not an option or even a thought from the start.

[Tarc]

61. We're you around the party in 2004 and/or 2008? This is how it works.

[redstateblues]

63. A lot of these posters weren't voting Democratic anyway

[tarheelsunc]

65. Thing is, Hillary doesn't have to win CA to win the majority of pledged delegates.

Bernie would have to win CA by something like 40% to pass her. It's pretty obvious that ain't happening. Just like it was obvious Trump was the Republican nominee when he won Indiana, even though he didn't yet have a majority. Unlike Sanders, Cruz and Kasich actually had the decency to drop out when it was clear the people had made their decision.

[restorefreedom]

69. they want bernie out so they can plug in biden after indictment

too bad thats not gonna happen.

and as for unity, clinton and the dnc left that in the rear view a long time ago

#bernieorbust
#neverhillary
#fuckunity

[Feathery Scout]

71. Hillary will claim to be the *Presumptive* Nominee. As is the Tradition and long time Precedent.

The Presumptive Nominee is declared when one competitor has the necessary votes/delegates + SDs during the Primary Season.

The Democratic Party then acknowledges that the voters have spoken, and support that choice.

It is critical to transition to the GE as soon as possible so we can win the White House.

To continue to ignore the true battle in the GE against the enemy of Trump and extend the Primary in a damaging battle with a vanquished foe is foolishness.

Obama, Biden and Warren will step in ASAP to ensure that doesn't happen.

Bernie's Revolution is not more important than the 2016 Presidential election.

[MisterP]

78. not with her GE poll numbers

[okasha]

85. Hillary's already moved on to the GE.

And someone needs to tell Sanders that there is no protocol or mechanism by which he can contest the election when someone else has the required number of delegates.

[onenote]

72. How is it premature to acknowledge the fact that as soon as

Clinton has pledged delegates plus commitments from supers that equal 2383 or more, she will, consistent with longstanding journalistic precedent, be deemed the presumptive nominee -- a presumption that can get stronger or weaker as time goes on, but a valid presumption at that moment just as it has been numerous times before.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512125896#post47

[brooklynite]

73. It has nothing to do with uniting the Party; it has to do with acknowledging reality.

If reality upsets you, how do you think you're going to feel when the Convention ultimately votes for Clinton?

[azurnoir]

77. Thank you for admitting that "nothing to do with uniting the party"

and that reality does not upset me in the slightest

[GulfCoast66]

75. Finally an entire OP

About something that has left me flummoxed for weeks now...

Why do you give a flying fuck about what posters here say? Seriously, are you so weak willed that people online effects your voting decision?

I just reread your post. You clearly state that posts on this website affects your vote.

There have been many, many post here where the poster pretty much says that because others are being mean they will not vote for Hillary. I have started asking every time I see it and some have even said they were made so mad here it would effect their vote.

I truly am curious about this. Because it is a huge change from what I grew up thinking, where my opinion is mine alone. The idea that someone here could effect my vote is insulting.

[cui bono]

94. I'm not talking at all about oh, they're being mean so I won't vote for their candidate.

I'm not sure where you picked that up. What I'm saying is that if they want a united party they sure as hell are not going about it the right way. If they want people to show a united front and be the least bit enthusiastic about doing so, they should rethink they're attitudes and treatment of the people they seem to think they can ridicule and insult and then still expect them to have their back.

Plus, I believe I mentioned Hillary in there too. She is not going to do herself any favors if she makes a victory speech at this early time. The political climate is obvious and it would be a huge misstep for her to alienate voters she needs if she ends up in the GE. And this is a very real scenario, a candidate's actions causing people to choose not to vote for them.

.

[GulfCoast66]

106. I understand

What you are saying about Hilliary. Disagree, but understand. Every other candidate gets to declare victory when they hit this point, but not the first woman. But I can understand why you say that. If she declares victory and the President, press, party and super delegates agree, then it is all over for Bernie.

But that is not what leaves me confused. Please reread your first paragraph. It is all about her supporters here ridiculing and insulting and expecting support. That is what I cannot understand. Why do the actions of strangers matter at all?

If there was no internet you would not be aware of this and would vote the way you think. This site should have no bearing on your vote.

[cui bono]

111. That's what campaigns are about, outreach.

How many new voters will Hillary supporters get if they act like this? How many people who may not vote at all will they inspire to come out and vote? How many people do you think came out of the woodwork only because of Bernie and how many will want to support Hillary after her and her supporters' behavior? Do you really think it's only on this site?

And my opinion has nothing to do with Hillary being a woman so please don't play the gender card. It only makes a mockery of the women's movement and the real problems women have to face. And if you want to play the gender card, is that why Hillary is under investigation by the FBI, because she's the first viable women candidate? Is that why the OIG report came out? Is that why she chooses to lie constantly? We could list every single thing about her and ask if it is because she is the first viable woman candidate and the answers would be the same. It's not at all because of that.

.

[rjsquirrel]

76. I don't care

whether we get a few cranky Bernie diehards on board or not.

That's how.

[grasswire]

79. their purpose is to push progressives out of our own party.

So Third Way can rule unencumbered.

The problem for them is that progressives and independents are about twice as big a coalition as Third Way.

So what they are doing is contributing to their own demise as a party.

[RandySF]

80. Was it premature in 2008

To declare Obama the nominee based on the same standard and with a closer delegate margin? Please answer this before I take your question seriously.

[merrily]

82. I don't think anything Hillary or Bernie says at this point will affect the general much.

[seabeyond]

86. Sanders himself called for Obama in '08, ascent demanded of Clinton in '08.

Greek Tragedy was kind enough to provide the information to is.

From what I see it is not premature but the expectation.

[asuhornets]

87. Just because Sanders refuse to throw in the towel

does not mean we are going to wait on him to accept his defeat..

[Skink]

88. HRC should go after the Repubs that need someone they can believe in.

Oh wait she is. And Bernie

[cui bono]

95. No, she should make sure the party doesn't split in two, especially when she is a big reason

that it might. And she should get the party back to its roots, standing up for unions and not taking corporate money.

You know, like Bernie is doing.

.

[passiveporcupine]

89. I started another thread but I'll post it here too

Obama and his advisers insist the event will stop short of a declaration that he has won the nomination. But it will be seen as another signal to superdelegates to climb aboard his bandwagon as quickly as possible.

The celebration, however, has rankled the Clinton campaign and the candidate herself. They see it as a highhanded effort to embarrass her and to generate renewed calls from others in the party for her to quit the race before anyone has achieved a genuine majority of pledged delegates and superdelegates.

In a signal of how fragile the detente between the two sides is, the Clinton campaign sent out a tart memo yesterday under the name of communications director Howard Wolfson calling the Obama rally in Iowa “a slap in the face of millions of voters in the remaining primary states and to Senator Clinton’s 17 million supporters.” Then, in language tying the Obama campaign to the Bush White House, the memo continues: “Premature victory laps and false declarations of victory are unwarranted. Declaring mission accomplished does not make it so.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/the-end-of-hillary-clinto_b_9791460.html

Obama was classy. Hillary? Not so much. And now she is doing the very thing she tried to accuse Obama of doing (when he didn't even do it). That's not class.

Seems the winds have changed for her again.

[ContinentalOp]

90. The most favorable polls I can find

show Sanders losing CA with 47% of the vote and losing New Jersey with 42% of the vote. So even if they split the delegates in those two states 50/50, they each get 300 delegates. She would have 2107 pledged delegates to his 1817. With super delegates that puts her at 2655. That means he could flip 270 of her super delegates and she would still win. And we all know that's not going to happen. It's a done deal.

[senz]

91. Excellent OP, cui bono.

Laid out the facts. Thanks!

[Maedhros]

93. When they say "unite the Party", they mean

"get as many Party members as possible to denounce the progressive wing."

Keep us quiet, docile, and voting the way they want us to.

[onenote]

98. Another question: How is denying Clinton's victory going to unite the party

Hiding behind the technicality that the nomination isn't official until the convention, pretending that this nomination cycle is somehow different from earlier ones in which it has been universally accepted that when a candidate has a combination of pledged delegates and super delegate commitments that exceeds the nomination threshold that candidate is the presumptive nominee, threatening to disrupt the convention, holding out hope that Clinton is indicted --- how do those actions help unite the party?

[Tarc]

100. Lol, what nonsense

Sanders supporters: "Emailgate!"
Sanders supporters: "Fracking!"
Sanders supporters: "Where's the transcripts?!"
Sanders supporters: "TPP!"
Sanders supporters: "Gee, is she sick?" (had to link this one b/c it's so unbelievable)
Sanders supporters: "Neoliberal third-way politics!"
Sanders supporters: "She voted for the Iraq War!"
Sanders supporters: "Syria!"
Sanders supporters: "Honduras!"
Sanders supporters: "Libya!"

News Reports: Hillary wins VI, PR, on Verge of Becoming the Presumptive Nominee

Sanders supporters: "Hey, don't gloat, that makes the atmosphere poisonous!"

Yea...

[Fast Walker 52]

102. pointing out things you don't like about a candidate is fair game

creating an obnoxious "it's our way or the highway" attitude is not.

And yes, both sides do this, but the Hillary people seem intent on rubbing the Bernie people's noses in her winning.

[apcalc]

101. What' s premature?

After Tuesday, it's a lock.

[geek tragedy]

103. You don't get to deny her the right to declare victory in the same manner Obama did.

She will have a majority of pledged and all delegates on Tuesday.

That means she won, and is the presumptive nominee.

No amount of sour grapes changes that.

[LuvLoogie]

105. Fine! I'll wait until tomorrow night, 10 PM Pacific.

[beachbum bob]

107. kinda like sanders and his people ignoring reality?? They have not intention of playing nice

and at this point neither do we...tough to be on the losing side and have to watch sanders go back to vermont, rejected again