Folks the US can't shut down all political disagreement for 8 years simply because....

[Armstead]

.....Hillary Clinton is female.

Not gonna happen. If she wants the job, she -- and her supporters -- are gonna have to take the lumps that go with the job.

She will not live in a gender encased bubble if she gets into the WH. The GOP is gonna go after her. Independents and Democrats who disagree with her are gonna go after her.

There will be reasoned criticism. There will also be things said that are not always nice.

There will be sexist things said. There will also be critical things said that are not based in sexism.

If she sells us out with one or more policy, she does not get a free pass, just because we're afraid to say something that might have some vague connotation of gender in somebody's mind.

Sorry, but equality, means accepting the crap along with the benefits of equality.

[elleng]

1. 'If she sells us out with one or more policy, she does not get a free pass,

just because we're afraid to say something that might have some vague connotation of gender in somebody's mind.'

[LibDemAlways]

126. "IF she sells us out..." No ifs

about it. That's a given.

[Skwmom]

128. But you will get to complain about it so what's the problem? HUGE sarcasm.

[farleftlib]

2. She's the worst type of politician there is

and being a woman is not reason enough to overlook her multitude of shortcomings and
faults. Nobody with such a demonstrated lack of integrity should get the nod because she
it's past time for a woman to be president. She doesn't have what it takes and that's no
slur against her gender or anybody else's.

[Zorro]

65. Clinton knows who the real adversaries to progress are

Bernie and his most rabid supporters do not.

[lancer78]

93. Trump is worse than HRC

But only because of his SCOTUS picks. Otherwise, he and her are the same on fiscal issues more or less.

[Jester Messiah]

102. I don't think even their SCOTUS pics would be all that different.

They're both corporatists first last and always.

[lancer78]

104. I disagree

Her SCOTUS nominees would uphold roe v wade

[thucythucy]

130. Trump is also a racist and a misogynist.

Clinton, for all her flaws, strikes me as neither, which to my mind is a very important distinction. To me, and I would hope to tens of millions of other Americans as well. He's anti-choice (sometimes, anyway) and has said women should be punished legally for seeking an abortion. This isn't "worse" to you than Clinton's support of Planned Parenthood? Every been faced with an unwanted pregnancy? Every had to drive hours to get contraception or a mammogram?

Plus, I have no idea what Trump's stand on "fiscal issues" are. Is he in favor of increased funding for Head Start? Does he support, or want to repeal, the Affordable Health Act? What's his stand on reasonable accommodation as it regards employees with disabilities under the Americans with Disabilities Act? How does he feel about the various bogus GOP "tort reform" proposals?

Trump said he supports Paul Ryan's house agenda, which is anti-women, anti-immigrant, anti-voting rights for people of color. All of that tells me he's a dangerous man to everything I hold dear.

[lancer78]

68. She is the

least qualified democrat in a generation. But remember, it is HER TURN!

[redstateblues]

85. Only BSS say that. It's a red herring

[Live and Learn]

116. + a gazillion. nt

[seabeyond]

3. Clinton has faced sexism her entire life and preserved. How fucking condescending can you be.

[Armstead]

5. Call it condescending if you want but it's the truth

Either one is tough enough to be President and can stand whatever is tossed their way -- or not.

And either people who support a candidate accept that the candidate will be criticized for legitimate reasons -- or not.

Yes sometimes sexism is involved.

But overall when it comes to policy, integrity and the ability to effectively lead, gender's is not always a factor.

[seabeyond]

8. In order for a black, women, gay to run, they must never challenge bigotry? Sure makes it comfy for

all the bigots, you think?

Clinton has had decades being successful in a world of sexism, to suggest she uses it as a victim card, and allows it to hinder her is an insult and dismissal of all she has accomplished. The exact opposite. Men would get the praise for a well run campaign. Hers not good enough. But she just keeps on keeping on. She kicks mens ass as Sanders cries unfair every step of the way in the face of the sexism.

She is strong, solid and smart.

You dismiss her. No that is not ok.

[AuntPatsy]

58. I might not always agree with you but you expressed exactly what I wished I had.....

[lancer78]

69. Noone can be called smart

when they supported the IWR.

[geek tragedy]

9. do you think you're saying anything that any Clinton supporter doesn't know?

Do you think you're providing some useful insight into gender, sexism and equality in our political discourse that women especially had never, ever, ever thought of?

[Armstead]

12. No insight....I'm simply reacting to some of the nonsense being spouted

Do you think Sanders ran against Clinton simply because she is a female?

[geek tragedy]

17. no, of course not.

do you think him calling her unqualified was tone deaf in terms of how it sounded to women voters?

[Armstead]

30. I think that was inappropriate for him to say

He got upset by what was being said about him, and he said something he shouldn't have.

I won't defend that. He misspoke.

But it wasn't because of gender.

[GuestCheck]

67. This woman agrees that Hillary Clinton is unqualified. 60 years a feminist woman. It makes me happy

that my grandnieces agree & voted for Senator Sanders.

[geek tragedy]

70. You have an odd definition of unqualified nt

[GuestCheck]

74. Here is one of my grandnieces definitions

Here is one of my grandnieces definitions. "Since I was born, we've been bombing the hell out of people in central asia and the middle east and carrying on assassinations around the globe. My one hope is that Bernie will do whatever he can to make it stop. I believe him when he says he will do whatever he can to bring peace & stability to the world that we've exploited exponentially since WW1. I am hoping for a peacemaker. I don't want the war monger promoting business opportunities in countries that we have destroyed."

[geek tragedy]

75. Oh.

P.S. Bernie supports the drone program

[GuestCheck]

76. That is as a discussion you would want to have with my grandniece.

Unfortunately, she is not a member of this board.

[cui bono]

94. Hillary voted for the IWR.

That was not only a vote for an illegal war for which she lied about her reasons but also an abdication of her constitutional duties as a member of Congress. She voted to give the responsibility of declaring war away. Think about it. She gave away that duty to GWB. That was a reckless move.

Unfit for office.

.

[cui bono]

18. Says one of the people who plays the gender card the most.

Or should I say "username". There's no telling who is posting under this name now, but it's clearly not the original seabeyond.

.

[seabeyond]

21. Weird post Cui Bono, even for you.

[sufrommich]

26. I've seen this claim made before,Sea. If I were you I'd

send it on to Skinner.

[seabeyond]

37. Whatever it is, odd with a dash of... Funny as hell. Lol. Ya, a handful like to play this game. Nt

[sufrommich]

45. ........

[morningfog]

89. The punctuation, capitalization and run on sentences

are different. You are right.

[LanternWaste]

137. I think it's adorable that you cower behind implication. It illustrates your character...

I think it's adorable that you cower behind implication. It illustrates your character rather accurately.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

32. +1000 nt

[Live and Learn]

117. So have a lot of us. That doesn't account for her lack of integrity. nt

[seabeyond]

118. whiplash following your redirect.

[Live and Learn]

119. That was too hard for you to follow? nt

[seabeyond]

120. Not hard to follow at all. One has nothing to do with the other, or the conversation at hand.

[sufrommich]

4. This is exactly the argument conservatives made when the racism

against Obama became overt. Nobody says she can't be disagreed with,that's a straw man.

[Armstead]

7. You want to make it a straw man, then don't use it to excess to deflect criticism

And yeah, if Obama did something that pissed conservatives off, they had every right to criticize him. As have liberals.

[geek tragedy]

6. I'm sure all the ladies appreciate you explaining this whole sexism/criticism/equality

thing to them.

[Armstead]

10. Not all. But some agree with me 100 percent.

[geek tragedy]

11. what you said is so banal and mundane and obvious that you really insult

people by pretending they didn't already know it.


"Not every criticism of a woman is sexism."

That's, like, so deep, man.

[Armstead]

13. I never said it was a profound unique insight

Merely expressing my opinion.

[geek tragedy]

15. no you were lecturing, not merely expressing your opinion

usually when one lectures others, one should have at least an equal understanding of the subject matter being discussed

when it comes to sexism and gender inequality, men should pretty much never lecture women on the subject

[Armstead]

23. You prove my point

Yes sexcism exists, and is a factor but.....

Bernie is only running because Hillary Clinton is female. Nothing to do with what he believes in. Just like the 10 million peopel who have voted for him are only doing it because they don't want a woman president.

Bernie is only fighting to the end because she is a woman. There can't be any otehr possible reason.

People don't trust her. That's only because she is a woman. Nothing to do with the times she's said one thing and done another. Nor the fact that she and Bill (a male) have amassed a fortune of almost $200 Million from careers in public office.

All of that is nothing like using gender as an excuse to deflect every legitimate criticism people might have about her. Nosiree. Not at all.

[geek tragedy]

38. Yes, when a woman is winning by a wide margin and a bunch of 20 something men

start a Twitter campaign to tell her to step aside for the man who's losing to her, I suspect sexism in that.

The whole "drop out Hillary" thing was sexism. There was never a "drop out Barack" campaign in 2008 even though his lead was much smaller.

Another double standard:

In 2008, Clinton by some arguments was winning the popular vote and was within a few percentage points in terms of pledged delegates, especially with Florida and Michigan under dispute.

Nonetheless, lots of dudebros in the media (Tweety, Olbermann etc) were calling on her to drop out (with Olbermann making a crack about having her shot in back room). And, when her opponent--a man--crossed the absolute majority of delegates threshold with superdelegates, he claimed victory.

In 2016, she is far and insurpassably ahead of Sanders in every possible relevant metric, and on Tuesday will seize a majority of every category of delegates.

And Mister Sanders wags his finger at her and says she has no right to declare victory just because she beat his ass. Because she's held to a higher standard than every other candidate ever to win. Because winning a majority of votes--good enough for every man to lead in the race before her--is not enough for her.

Yeah, no double standard there.

Not to mention Sanders supporters referring to her as "The Queen" and "Her Royal Highness." Sanders supporters/protestors were calling her a 'whore' outside an event yesterday.

If you want another example of sexism, people find her less trustworthy than Bill. And Bill is twenty times more dishonest.

[Armstead]

42. I know nothing about that Twitter campaign...Is it all 20 something males?

But in general when a candidate is winning by a wide margin, and supporters of her opponent are fighting hard, one can legitimately criticize them..... or not. Depends on which candidate one supports.

But to reflexively make it all about gender rather than politics, the heat of campaigns, etc. is not okay....at least not in my book.

[geek tragedy]

47. did you not notice the part about the double standard?

No one's talked about taking Sanders into a back room and shooting him, for example.

It's never been thought of, let alone proferred by so-called progressives, to tell a man to step aside in favor of the women he's defeating. Complain about his policies yes, demand he sit down and shut up and defer to a woman? Nope.

But, plenty--and I mean plenty--of Sanders supporters saw nothing wrong with demanding that Hillary drop out and step aside in favor of Bernie.

Here's an example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511901753

Not to mention the talk that this is really Bernie's party now, as if Clinton and her voters don't exist.

Gee I wonder why?

that goes along with the attempts to delegitimize her win on the part of Sanders's most ardent supporters that sounds in the same venomous vitriol as the Trump/Tea crowd has applied to President Obama. the basic refusal to see his status and victories as legitimate

people tried to argue that it was just politics, and had nothing to do with race.

they've looked foolish in retrospect

[Armstead]

49. You want me to be totally honest?

I was among those in 2008 who desperately wanted Clinton to drop out sooner. I wanted to seeher in the rear view mirror. I also was a strong supporter of Obama and wanted him to be able to get on with the general post haste.

So yeah. I'm kind of hypocritical on that whole Bernie should just drop out now thing. I admitted this on another OP a few days ago.

But it was not because of gender. Then as now, I dislike the Clintons for a whole host of reasons. I thought it was time to be done with them as owners of the Democratic Party. Still do.

Would love to see a woman president. But not her.

[geek tragedy]

50. okay, do you admit that she has every right to declare victory if she's won the popular vote, the

pledged delegate vote, and has in hand a total number of delegates exceeding 2383?

That, regardless of what Bernie Sanders says, if she finishes ahead in all of those categories, she is the presumptive nominee?

[Armstead]

55. She has the right to do anything she wants....As does Bernie

Technically it is not over until the convention when all the delegates and SD's cast their vote.

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about Sanders taking it further after the last primary.

Part of me wants him to do what Clinton did in 2008 and smooth over feelings and move on, so we can beat the snot out of trump. And I'd also like to see Sanders show and receive some good will and respect, because he deserves it so far.

But part of me hates to see the Democrat Party revert back to being a subsidiary of Clinton Inc. with no opposition or challenge to their unquestioned power. I don't want them to assume they have a free pass to ignore about 40 percent of the participants in the primary. ....

Part of me wants to see Rock and Roll at the damn convention to shake this moribund political party up....and open it up.

That's my honest answer

[riderinthestorm]

25. I'm a woman and Armstead can talk about whatever he wants.

As a woman I'm interested in hearing all opinions. You don't get to censor anyone for me thank you very much.

[cui bono]

28. No, you're wrong. I'm a woman and I appreciate the post.

There's a lot of women on here - mostly the vocal self-proclaimed feminists - who have overplayed the gender card and it's sickening and harmful to women's fight for equality.

As a woman who sees that this behavior is making a mockery of women's real struggles I appreciate anyone who stands up for what is right. Doesn't matter who says it if it's correct.

And as man, if you feel that way, why are you even sticking your nose in this? I completely disagree with you, so why are you taking it upon yourself to speak for me?

.

[840high]

90. Glad you did.

[LanternWaste]

138. Hopefully, your next expressed opinion will be relevant and of substance.

Hopefully, your next expressed opinion will be relevant and of substance.

[cui bono]

20. The people who overplayed the gender card need to be told this.

The things they have called sexist are laughable and make a mockery of actual sexism and the real fight for equality that women face.

.

[riderinthestorm]

27. +1 nt

[unapatriciated]

48. +2

also a woman and at the age of 64 I have seen my fair share of sexism and I have not seen it from Sanders.

[pmorlan1]

57. +3

They've done enormous damage to the fight against sexism by crying sexism anytime criticism is leveled at Hillary. It's pathetic to watch.

[dchill]

82. +4

Just a false variation on the victim card.

[coco77]

88. I had this argument last week..

with a Hillary supporter who doesn't seem to get it,this is why she is losing many votes among other things. They can't seem to see that everything isn't sexist and people get tired of hearing it.

[840high]

91. +5

[TCJ70]

14. I'm 100% positive this place will label anyone sexist...

...if they have anything negative to say about the next Clinton Whitehouse. I'll probably be one of the first. It'll be sad.

[laserhaas]

59. Democratic is defined as

1.
Of, relating to, or supporting democracy or its principles.
"democratic reforms"
..
OR
...

2.
of or relating to the Democratic Party.

Guess which term will apply...in this realm...come .....real...........soon?

[w4rma]

16. The 'cry wolf' sexists are out in force on this thread. *Everything* critical of Hillary is "sexist"

Don't disagree with her, or you'll be "sexist", too. And maybe you'll be labeled a "racist", just for good measure.

[Vattel]

19. It's sad that so many recent posts don't seem to reflect an understanding of these points.

[geek tragedy]

22. I'm sure there's a very reasonable cause for the double standards that get

applied to her. Just ask any dude.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. This 'dude' offers that she spent years claiming rights I must not have, according to her Goddy God

That is one huge and legislatively enforced double standard. If she so suffers from double standards why is she so willing to impose them upon others?

[unapatriciated]

56. Yes she has faced double standards

but to accuse Sanders of running against her or staying in until the convention because she is a woman (not directed at you personally) is laughable. It demeans women and our real struggles.

I'm 64 and have faced a lot of sexism in my life, so when I hear comments like that it is truly sad and tells me that those who make them have never struggled. Like....

Being denied a decent job (forcing you to work two low paying jobs), housing, reasonable auto insurance rates (with a clean driving record) just because you are a divorced woman with children.

[geek tragedy]

60. there are always going to be bogus claims of bias and discrimination

just have to use common sense, and we men need to learn to not be reflexively dismissive

[unapatriciated]

64. There has been way too many

of those bogus claims lately and from posters I used to respect. This Op was in response to some hateful claims, yes it came from a man but the message is still the same. Many women did respond to the poster who was the most vocal in calling Sanders a sexist and we were met with hatred and dismissal. To have someone of my own gender treat me as a lesser than, is far worse then if it came from a man. I'm tired of being called not a real Dem, a bagger or libertarian, not very unifying.

I know that Clinton supporters want this to be over now but it is not.

I support Sanders staying in until the convention because I and almost half of the party want a voice in our party platform.
Sanders has made a difference in the direction of our party and in my opinion that is a good thing.
It has forced Clinton to change a few of her views on things like the tpp, fracking and income inequality.

We would like to make sure that our party knows that we don't want to go back to business as usual.

[geek tragedy]

73. the primary contest will be over on Tuesday

I have faith that the media as well as the rest of the party will ignore Sanders's futile protestations that Clinton can't claim victory.

He doesn't get to tell her what she can and cannot do. That is not his place.

[unapatriciated]

135. Not his place, but it is our place

as almost half of the party and he represents us. That is how to heal the party and win our support.

She will represent all of us not just Clinton supporters in the primary.

Who are you to tell me I have no rights to expect representation?

Compromise and input is done all the time in politics. Clinton did it with Gore and Obama did it with HRC.

[geek tragedy]

136. There is a difference between wanting representation and a seat at the table on one hand

and on the other trying to order the winner to not declare victory and celebrate.

By all means demand good policy planks on the platform.

But, don't tell her and her supporters they can't celebrate victory tonight.

FWIW, I won't be celebrating victory tonight--that comes in November. But others obviously will.

[Vattel]

66. Please use common sense.

The idea that Sanders is not conceding before the convention because Clinton is a woman is ridiculous and utterly unsubstantiated.

[geek tragedy]

72. Sure, the reason he's not recognizing the will of the voters

is that he makes Ted Cruz look like a humble team player.

If he was a woman, he'd be compared to Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction.

"I'm not going to be ignored."

I'll enjoy his coming public humiliation.

[Vattel]

95. nice deflection

[geek tragedy]

98. We will see from his tone this week whether he thinks he can tell Hillary what to do

If he thinks he's got the right to do that, despite her now being the new head of the party and presumptive nominee, not unfair to presume gender plays a role.

I think there's a chance he does the right thing and admits she won instead of acting like he's entitled to the win despite losing.

[Vattel]

100. I would bet on him conceding, but I could be wrong.

Still, if he does not concede, it is unfair to presume gender plays a role.

[geek tragedy]

101. as I said, it will be tone.

he can refuse to concede but do so without making a gigantic jackass of himself.

[brooklynite]

24. Who has suggested the she shouldn't be subject to criticism as President?

Who knows...maybe Bernie Sanders will suggest she be primaried.

[Armstead]

34. Read some of the stuff being posted

"Bernie Sanders only decided to run because she is a female."

"Bernie Sanders is only fighting to the end because she is a woman."

C'mon you know better than that.

[azurnoir]

29. I would expect to see most ardent Hillary's supporters follow the lead of Obama's

in which anyone who disagreed with any of President Obama's policies for any reason did because they were racist - didn't matter how many times they had voted for him -it was only because they were racist - the same will probably follow with Hillary should she win and disagreement is because she is a woman and no other reason will be considered

IMO both of these argument diminish both Obama and Hillary in whose favor they are supposedly being made-it does so by reducing them to either their race or gender as opposed to whole thinking human beings whose actions can be applauded or criticized without regard to their gender or racial identity

[sadoldgirl]

31. Should she get into the WH, they cannot

blame her impeachment on her gender, since her
husband was going through this as well.

I suppose they would call it a family event.

[Armstead]

46. It's be coupleism or something

[joshcryer]

33. People have walked on eggshells over the reason behind the double standard.

But I assure you, it's objectively true that Clinton has a double standard against her. Whatever you want to assign it, I don't care.

But I'll say it. It's sexism. Trying to shut down discussion about it isn't going to change that.

[Armstead]

36. There is probably sexism involved. But I think the bigger factor is the both of them

Hillary and Bill have built up a polarizing and checkered identity

I think there would be more acceptance of a candidate who is a woman if she had a different history and persona, and a different spouse, and was not part of a couple trying to get around the spirit of the two-term limits on presidencies.

[snot]

39. The complaints I and many others have about Hillary

are the same ones we had about Obama,
the same ones we had about Bush,
the same ones we had about Bill Clinton,
and the same ones we had about Reagan:

Don't put the foxes in charge of the henhouses. Tax the rich. Regulate unfair financial and commercial practices. Let government do what government does best: provide basic services in areas that tend to be natural monopolies (basic infrastructure & utilities, healthcare, and at least basic education). Etc.

I also happen to support racial, gender, and other kinds of equity; and I've had somewhat less to complain about in that area w.r.t. the Dem Prez's than the Repubs – but only somewhat less.

My positions have not changed based on who's in the White House, which candidate I support, or even what might benefit me personally.

Neither have Bernie's.

[KoKo]

40. Oh yes we can!

We've done it for the last 8 Years! Why Not for Hillary/Bill Third Term.

The whole Obama Admin. is "Fired Up and Ready to Go for Hillary."

WHA?

[MisterP]

41. more to the point, kiboshig criticism on DU and DKos won't actually do anything in the real world

they may blame lefties and righties working together in conspiracy against the reasonable, virtuous, pragmatic middle, but in fact Trump can pound her weak points all he likes without our help

the Maginot Line was, indeed, impregnable

[JoePhilly]

43. Build a straw-man, knock him over, declare victory!!!!

[Armstead]

44. Do you think the only reason Bernie decided to run was because Clinton is a female?

[JoePhilly]

84. No. Put your straw man away.

[MyNameGoesHere]

51. Political disagreement being shut down is in your imagination

And I assume fear of women? I really don't know just throwing stuff out there like a monkey flinging poo

[Prism]

52. Ask LGBT people how it went with Obama

To this day, you've people convinced the entire LGBT community is just a bunch of racists because we took him to task in his first term.

I don't care in the slightest. A few weeks ago, some racial maniac was all, "We ALL know about you!" Because I criticized the president. You're automatically racist.

Anyone who doesn't think a Clinton presidency won't be full of this, I don't know what to tell you. It happens now. Just glance through GDP. Any criticism will be distilled into sexism, one way or another.

There are just some people who only see the world through identity politics, and they are convinced you are either with them or you are a white, sexist oppressor.

There's literally nothing to be done for it. You can't argue people out of ideas they were never argued in to.

[Armstead]

61. It happened during the healthcasre debate

Anyone who criticized Obama's health plan was accused on "trying to undermine the First Black President."

Among otehr things, such misdirected deflections detract from the ability to point out actual instances of sexism, racism or otehr forms of bigotry.

[Prism]

62. They wore racism out

Disagreeing on policy was racism. Because Obama is black. Scratch that we'd be equally pissed at a white president for proffering the same ideas. No, you're all racists.

That was a big problem on DU from 2008-2012. It kind of became LGBT vs AA. Because LGBTers were like, "Uhm, no, none of this is ok." And the AA Forum decided, "You're all racist for not liking him!"

And that is why, to this day, I do not care even slightly what comes out of that forum. If they ever acknowledged or apologized for their shit, I'd be ok. But, no, we're all still racist, for reasons!

And now Bernie is also racist, for reasons. They can't figure out why. Just, because and shit.

And I remember how my LGBT family were subjected to the same shit from the same people.

No, don't care. Not even a little.

And it really doesn't help when my AA real life friends think they're dumb asses.

[BuelahWitch]

97. I would argue it's gone on longer than 2012

And supposedly Bernie is disliked by AA members and Obama supporters on this site because he made a statement during the run up to 2012 that President Obama should be primaried. Which I totally agreed with, after the Cat Food Commission among other things. At the very least I was hoping he'd run as a Republican. But his supporters called people racist because we did not agree (and still do not agree with) his policies.

[Il_Coniglietto]

53. Replace every single reference to sexism

Replace every single reference to sexism with the -ism of your choice and see how very wrong this argument is:

Folks the US can't shut down all political disagreement for 8 years simply because...

.....Barack Obama is black/Bernie Sanders is Jewish/John F. Kennedy is Catholic.

Not gonna happen. If he wants the job, he -- and his supporters -- are gonna have to take the lumps that go with the job.

He will not live in a race/religion encased bubble if he gets into the WH. The GOP is gonna go after him. Independents and Democrats who disagree with him are gonna go after him.

There will be reasoned criticism. There will also be things said that are not always nice.

There will be racist/anti-Semitic/anti-Catholic things said. There will also be critical things said that are not based in racism/anti-Semitism/anti-Catholicism.

If he sells us out with one or more policy, he does not get a free pass, just because we're afraid to say something that might have some vague connotation of race/religion in somebody's mind.

Sorry, but equality, means accepting the crap along with the benefits of equality.

No. This isn't acceptable in the above circumstances and it's not acceptable with regards to gender, ethnicities, other races, other religions, sexual orientation, gender identity, physical/mental abilities, etc.

If you have a problem with someone or their policies, fine. Attack those. But "vague connotations" of any of the above should not be tolerated by anyone who considers themself a progressive. Period.

[laserhaas]

54. She's going to be in a protected bubble...here at DU

In a matter of days

And Trump wont be silenced on this issue..for dam sure

Meaning her getting in...isnt foregone

[AuntPatsy]

63. I'm not sure you would ever be able to understand exactly why this is so wrong,

The old adage, walk a mile in my shoes could easily apply, I don't pretend to understand your fears but I would at least attempt to try to alleviate them or try harder to explain my own, we humans are a judgemental, self serving, egotistical lot for the most part, which we can use to either hinder or enlighten our future selves but the reality is our wiring is different and society only ensures it alters little, you cannot change that....

I wouldn't worry, if Hillary does get the Hot Seat I have no doubt she will not at least immediately begin acting like she knows what she is talking about and surround herself with only female advisors...men will still exist ....

[DCBob]

71. Where have you been the past 20 years??

She has been relentlessly attacked for decades and she is still standing. She has no fear of any of that. Did you not see the 12 hour Benghazi interrogation?

[Armstead]

77. And your point is.....?

It's not so much her but those who insist that she cannot be criticized, or behave or speak in any way that might be remotely interpreted as sexism. (Alyhjough shye dos engage in that sometimes too.)

[DCBob]

79. Feel free to ignore those who say that.

She is fine with it..I am sure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Others have said it

but I expect this to be Nixonian, enemies lists and all. On the bright side, I expect Trump to be Mussolini, or Putin like,, Mr, Putin also has enemies lists.

It will not quiet down, but it will be dead quiet here.

[Demsrule86]

80. I well remember the" I would have liked Hillary had she remained a senator post"

so spare me. That post was one of the worst, most sexists posts here...so don't tell us what to do... Another condescending post telling women how to respond to sexism-something you know nothing about..how not surprising.

[bettyellen]

108. Yeah let's forget the many admittedly sexist posts they've already treated us too....

Now we get lectures how it's not ALL sexist. This genius needed some coffee and some spellcheck, for starters.

[Armstead]

111. My eyesight is bad. Forgive me for typos.

And if you think the OP is foolish, I assume you agree with those posts that have said the only reason that Sanders decided to run for the nomination is because Hillary is a woman.

Or that the only reason he has been fighting so hard in the final stage is because he can't stand the thought of losing to a woman.

If you believe that kind of hogwash, then I'm not the only one whose IQ can be questioned.

[Demsrule86]

113. Works for me

One of then essentially called me a vagina voter today

[Demsrule86]

81. I well remember "I would have liked Hillary had she remained a senator"

I see you have written another condescending post which is intended to insult women...What would you know of sexism...at least the receiving part that is.

[LoverOfLiberty]

83. Good on you Armstead

Sound like you are coming along to the possibility of a Hillary Clinton presidency.

[Armstead]

92. I always assumed that would be the case -- Democracy has become a Kabuki Dance

But I harbored hope that the rigid corporatist yuppie template that has been foisted on the Democratic party for the last 30 years might finally be broken this time.

[leveymg]

86. Being female is just one of her many presumed privileges.

She's one of the most privileged and in your face about it people to ever run for President. The fact that she pretends to not be privileged makes her about as nauseating as they come.

[tom-servo]

87. I think having a woman president would bring...

... out a lot of sexism and it would be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[moriah]

96. I don't expect you to understand how posting something like this 8 years ago...

... replacing Clinton with Obama and sexism with racism would have been inappropriate.

I'm sure some people would have "liked" Obama better if he remained a Senator, too. But it's actually unsurprising. As wrong as it was for early suffragettes to demean equal voting for all just because they wanted it for themselves, intersectionality in discussing how privilege manifests explain why women of color end up with the deck stacked against them far more than white women or black men -- that both isms exist. But people far more easily can suggest gender means actual differences that matter because there are some physical differences that are pretty significant, vs there being both black men and black women.

What's suprising is seeing it openly preached on DU.

[Armstead]

109. Sorry, but you are doing what I am referring to

yeah these issues are complex, and bias does factor in.

But Democrats have not exactly been chomping at the bit to break either of those those barriers for the WH, just to break barriers, even in its recent history.

Remember Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's runs, for example? They would have been historic, but Democrats were not exactly lining up to support them as the racial barrier breakers. It was not totally (and I use that word deliberately) because of some ingrained racial bias. It was because Democrats did not think they were the best candidates or potential presidents.

Obama was able to overcome that because he was recognized by a majority as the best candidate and President.

Similarly, there are many Democrats today who would love to see a woman break the gender barrier to the WH. But they do not think that Clinton is the best choice.

Since she is about to win the nomination this time, obviously a majority seems to believe she is the best candidate. Okay fine. But to dismiss the opinions of (close to half) of primary voters who do not believe that as due to gender is incorrect.

And that same will apply to her performance if she does win the WH. Not all criticism will have roots in gender bias.

But, as the dialogue here during the primary indicates, there are some who will try to shoot down legitimate criticisms and opposition to her as gender based. That is what I am referring to.

[moriah]

114. No, you have said flat out you think she's overstepping "her place".

On numerous occasions, in numerous contexts, that make you come across like "her place" was at home baking cookies, keeping Bill satisfied (failure to do so being "enabling" his affairs), and certainly not in politics at all.

[Armstead]

115. Everyone has their "place" ....You are inaccuratly characterizing what I said.

Just to use myself as an example.

I create and produce something for a living. I am really good at it. I don't mean to sound immodest, but all of the feedback and results do indicate that I have a talent and skill for what I do.

But I would be lousy at managing what I do. I produce something. That's what I am good at. But if I were to take a step up the ladder and try to be a manger of it, I'd fail miserably, because that is not my skill set.

So I have my "place" and I recognize that. It has nothing to do with my gender, age, color or anything other than my natural talents and limitations.

I happen to think -- and yeah it is my opinion -- that Clinton has great gifts that could have made her a formidable leader in the Senate. If she had stayed with that, she could have ultimately been the equivalent of a Ted Kennedy

....But for a variety of reasons, I do not believe she has the qualities necessary to be an effective president or driver of the Democratic Party. That is true of most politicians, male and female.

I don't care if you agree or disagree with my opinion on that. But don't misrepresent it.

[moriah]

121. And millions who voted for her for President thought her place was very different

Which makes your opinion about her "place" not something I am too worried about.

I'm trying to make you aware of how you sound, though, not that I actually believe you think all women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

[Armstead]

122. Place was originally a bad use of words.

Consider me suitably chastised for a clumsy use of language -- but unrepentant in my belief about her suitability to be the nominee or president.

[moriah]

129. Understood on the unrepentance. Also unrepentant here for pointing out...

... that even if you aren't basing your actual opinions on sexist-influenced thinking, that others are, and none of them are easily going to admit that their word choices weren't clumsy, but deliberate.

Like those accusing her of "enabling" her husband's affairs in the same breaths they're caling her a lesbian and plugging books conveniently timed to publish in November. And those two authors are female, one accusing Bill of "putting on her frilly nightie and dancing playing the sax" during their affairs, blaming Hillary for them more because she allegedly wasn't satisfying his sexual needs than any reactions to learning about them.

[seaglass]

99. Come on Armstead, you're smarter than this. Hillary has faced criticism for 30 years and she always

gets back up. All presidents are criticized, no one expects otherwise.

But if you think women are going to sit down and shut up when they are accused of voting with their vaginas or when Hillary is called a whore or a c*nt because someone disagrees with policy - sorry that is not going to happen.

[Armstead]

106. What you are referring to is not what I am referring to

[NCTraveler]

103. You are truly the only person I have seen make that initial argument.

I know this will garner you a lot of street cred with the Sanders crowd but it is literally based of a false meme.

[Armstead]

105. Read the comments....There are people who agree

Of course I'm called a dog by some for saying it too, but a lot of people agree with it.

[NCTraveler]

107. Not one outside of yourself. You are the only one.

"Folks the US can't shut down all political disagreement for 8 years simply because Hillary Clinton is female."

[Armstead]

110. All those "I agrees" don't exist?

Is that like the larger primary, where the close to half of voters who have voted for Sanders don't exist?

[dana_b]

112. couldn't agree more K&R n/t

[treestar]

123. It was the same with President Obama

and there are times we called out what we considered racism. One of the main factors was holding him to a higher standard.

I'm sure there will be "criticism" based on sexism too.

[Armstead]

124. Disagreeing with Obama's healthcare policies, for example, was not racism

Democrats who disagreed with his handling of that issue because they wanted to see better and affordable coverage for everyone was not racism. But that accusation was tossed around to stifle that debate at the time.

That's the kind of thing I am referring to.

[treestar]

125. I don't think anyone said that

To me it was asking for his college transcripts when others had not had to do it, yelling "you lie" at the President, never done before, things like that - Birthers were clearly going on racism as they never required any other candidate to produce a birth certificate. The hysterical claims that he is a Muslim, nothing that would be said of white candidates.

[Armstead]

127. It was said frequently

I am not referring to things like the birthers, and the obvious racist behavior and disrespect.

But too often, any disagreement or criticism of him on policy or his performance by Dems was met with a variation of "You are opposing the first black president" from otehr Dems.

There's a big difference.

[azurnoir]

131. New song for Hillary

[Armstead]

132. Is that Aimee Mann or have I got my 80's groups mixed up?

[azurnoir]

133. no it's Gwen Stefani aka the former Mrs Gavin Rossdale

[Armstead]

134. Ooops...even got my eras mixed up

Happens as the years pile up