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MariaThinks

(2,495 posts)
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:31 AM Jun 2016

92% alignment with Bernie's positions, 90% with Hillary, 40% with Trump

Those were my scores on how my positions align with the leading candidates.

So for me, both Bernie and Hillary agree with me far more than they disagree.

Why would I, being of sane mind, ever consider voting for someone like Trump if my first Democratic pick isn't nominated. The other one is so close to my positions I would jump to support that candidate.

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Tal Vez

(660 posts)
2. I can identify with that.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:48 AM
Jun 2016

As to differences between Clinton and Sanders over things like single payer, financing college and minimum wage, I would select the Sanders plans if I had the power to do so. I might even be more generous than Sanders has been, but I know that my views are not going to be enacted by a Congress that we are likely to soon get.

It took something close to a miracle to pass the Affordable Care Act. I remember when it looked like the Senate was going to approve a single payer system for persons over 55 until Lieberman changed his mind at the last minute. Of course, Lieberman was a Connecticut Democrat and many, many insurance companies maintain their headquarters in Connecticut. Well, that was that.

If Trump gets elected with a GOP Congress, the Affordable Care Act will be repealed. The GOP will have to repeal it, every word of it (even if many of them like some of the provisions). However, there will not be support to replace it with anything. The reality is that at best we are going to be dealing with the Affordable Care Act for the foreseeable future.

Nothing would please me more than to have a single payer health care system for everybody tomorrow. Nothing would please me more than to completely subsidize public education at all levels tomorrow. But, the reality is that these things are not doable tomorrow. And, it's really not honest for anyone to promise that they are.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
4. What's more likely to help lay the groundwork for progressive reform?
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 12:27 PM
Jun 2016

A) Clinton winning by a large margin

B) Clinton winning by a small margin

C) Trump winning

While there is certainly a valid leftist critique against the Democratic Party (including both Clinton and Sanders), I think it's foolish to choose anything other than 'A'.

The hard work to bring about much needed systemic change must take place day after day, *between* election cycles. The US is so individualistic and oriented toward the Cult of Personality that many overestimate the power and influence of individual actors, while underestimating systemic forces and the potential of mass organization. For instance, mass organization brought about marriage rights and a change in the stance taken by public officials (including Obama).

With Clinton (as opposed to Trump) and a day-to-day struggle for reform at the local level, a path forward can be created. With Trump, we go backward.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
7. I don't support pushing a false comparison between the two. Clinton is a corporatist hawk. Bernie
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 02:08 PM
Jun 2016

is a populist.
 

realmirage

(2,117 posts)
8. Just because your mind has developed a warped image of Hillary
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 02:17 PM
Jun 2016

doesn't mean that in REALITY she isn't still a liberal. You don't understand foreign policy but yelling warmonger is real easy. And yet when Bernie gets cozy with the NRA you are A-ok with that. Use superdelegates to overturn the people's vote at the convention? A-ok. You have an endless number of free passes for your candidate on any issue. Yet any perceived imperfection of Hillary? Pull out all the worst accusations to destroy her. That's what BS supporters have been doing here for months. Get over it already and remember you're a democrat.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
9. To assume they're miles apart
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 02:26 PM
Jun 2016

You have to assume she's lying when she says what her plans and beliefs are. I know some people think she's constantly lying, however that would not be reflected in any online test. A test would assume that what she says she believes and plans to do is the truth.

For the record, I don't think she's lying, but I understand how people feel that way. She follows popular political opinion, so she believes one thing, and then when popular political opinion shifts, she shifts as well. Unlike a lot of Bernie supporters, I think that is a good thing because it has forced her to move left. Not as far left as Bernie, but way left of where she was before. If Bernie supporters/OWS/whatever they want to call themselves can keep active, she will stay at least fairly to the left IMO.

And even then, "she's been forced to the left" is only one potential. The other is that she used to be forced to the right of where she actually felt, and she's been able to move back to where she feels more comfortable. Although I suspect the first scenario is more accurate.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
14. Sanders has always been more free to express what might be considered more radical viewpoints.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 02:47 PM
Jun 2016

Because his is a message campaign and actually becoming POTUS was never realistic.

Obama was against gay marriage until a mass movement allowed him to express a different viewpoint. That's the nature of the beast.

 

MinnesotaRob

(53 posts)
13. what's wrong with the test is
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 02:44 PM
Jun 2016

that it judges candidates based solely on their currently stated and vetted positions. If I believed that HRC were sincere, if I believed she were honest and would hold true to her words, I would undoubtedly look upon her much more favorably than I do currently.

MariaThinks

(2,495 posts)
17. since when can you use a voting record to judge a person's belief
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 03:20 PM
Jun 2016

the only way is to listen to right wing talking points, rush Limbaugh fairy tales, and her political enemies. that's how you make up your mind.

never refer to Bernie as Senator Bernie for example. It's should be that loonie liberal pinko socialist.

sarcasm off.

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