2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIn response to all the schadenfreude about Bernie's campaign troubles
I'm trying to move on.
But opening DU and seeing the Polito post-mortum posted several times, and all of the nasty grave-dancing comments about Bernie (and of course his supporters), and gloating and mischaracterizations, it is important to provide some perspective from the Clinton campaign in 2008.
Yeah, Bernie "lost." Maybe he is not giving everyone as smooth a ride as they want. But, that's not unusual for a campaign or candidate. Clinton's own loss in 2008 was not smooth either. And, just as Sanders is only human, Clinton's own inner conflicts became reflected in dissension within her campaign, especially at the end.
Excerpt:
The Atlantic
The Front-Runners Fall 2008
Hillary Clintons campaign was undone by a clash of personalities more toxic than anyone imagined. E-mails and memospublished here for the first timereveal the backstabbing and conflicting strategies that produced an epic meltdown.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/09/the-front-runner-s-fall/306944/
The after-battle assessments in the major newspapers and newsweeklies generally agreed on the big picture: the campaign was not prepared for a lengthy fight; it had an insufficient delegate operation; it squandered vast sums of money; and the candidate herself evinced a paralyzing schizophreniaone day a shots-n-beers brawler, the next a Hallmark Channel mom. Through it all, her staff feuded and bickered, while her husband distracted. But as a journalistic exercise, the campaign obit is inherently flawed, reflecting the viewpoints of those closest to the press rather than empirical truth.
How did things look on the inside, as they unraveled?
Two things struck me right away. The first was that, outward appearances notwithstanding, the campaign prepared a clear strategy and did considerable planning. It sweated the large themes (Clintons late-in-the-game emergence as a blue-collar champion had been the idea all along) and the small details (campaign staffers in Portland, Oregon, kept tabs on Monica Lewinsky, who lived there, to avoid any surprise encounters). The second was the thought: Wow, it was even worse than Id imagined! The anger and toxic obsessions overwhelmed even the most reserved Beltway wise men. Surprisingly, Clinton herself, when pressed, was her own shrewdest strategist, a role that had never been her strong suit in the White House. But her advisers couldnt execute strategy; they routinely attacked and undermined each other, and Clinton never forced a resolution. Major decisions would be put off for weeks until suddenly she would erupt, driving her staff to panic and misfire.
Above all, this irony emerges: Clinton ran on the basis of managerial competenceon her capacity, as she liked to put it, to do the job from Day One. In fact, she never behaved like a chief executive, and her own staff proved to be her Achilles heel. What is clear from the internal documents is that Clintons loss derived not from any specific decision she made but rather from the preponderance of the many she did not make. Her hesitancy and habit of avoiding hard choices exacted a price that eventually sank her chances at the presidency. What follows is the inside account of how the campaign for the seemingly unstoppable Democratic nominee came into being, and then came apart....MORE
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I am in the same boat as you - heartbroken but trying to move on, recognizing the bigger picture. But all of the hit pieces on Bernie, the AP short-circuiting the process and depressing turnout in the last states, and Hillary supporters' constant bashing and demands for him to drop out immediately (which Hillary herself did not do in 2008) are making it a lot harder.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)I doubt he uses that opportunity.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Losing an election is hard. It consumes so much time and effort. Turning that off instantly is impossible. Clinton went through suggesting the super delegates would switch to her and even referenced RFK being assassinated. I'm sure she didn't really mean that, but in the frustration of the moment people act in ways they otherwise wouldn't. If he's still struggling a week after DC's primary, then you can say Sanders isn't conceding gracefully.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)He has the opportunity, and very smart people (like Obama) urging him to use it. Give him some time.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)nearly a year... I can't help myself sometimes in giving the same response I was given when objecting to it.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)and all the recs they gave those OP's and the recs they gave to all the troll OP's attacking Hillary.
So now they are disappointed that we don't bury the hatchet and forgive. Well that is a two way street.
Bernie and his supporters were never on some higher moral ground and this his campaign and last nights booing of Bernie's mentioning of Hillary's phone call prove it.
amborin
(16,631 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Bernie has practically given Hillary a free pass.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)(for the most part.)
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)they will get the sexist, racist, white supremacist rhetoric that they crave.
TwilightZone
(25,456 posts)is not a terribly compelling argument.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...for supporting Hillary either.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)issues a statement and says they investigated her for a year because there was no problem.
She deserved her booing.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)trying to find something, anything on Hillary Clinton? I don't either but it's been a lot from the time she became First Lady and every one of those previous investigations have born no fruit.
Just because she's being investigated doesn't mean there's anything there. But who knows, maybe everyone hoping and praying and salivating over a HRC indictment will get their wishes this time or maybe it will turn out like all the other times--nothing to see there but a big bill created at the taxpayers expense because the republicans are convinced she has to be a criminal.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Do tell, I must have missed that.
Oh, wait a minute I'm 66, I don't need a history course about Hillary. I lived it and remember the entire wretched 8 years of tabloid drama, a great deal of which was brought on by the ill-advised actions of the Clintons themselves.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)and who created most of the drama? I remember the history a bit differently, I remember the Republicans going after her, for what? Supporting her husband? Maybe she should have thrown him under the bus and then everyone could crow about how she didn't "stand by her man."
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Didn't think so. This one should be interesting. Until and unless that's resolved clearing her, she deserves her boo.
As my wife says often, "Don't award bad behavior." She means it generally, but I've got some specific cases where it applies.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)...and after review, every single one of them was earned.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)The bullshit hides.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)for the last several months, the hoping for indictments, etc. ... and you complain about some "nasty grave-dancing"? and "gloating"? Really?
brush
(53,764 posts)Some of his supporters persist in those posts.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)When (if) the instance arrives that someone criticizes the behavior of supporters from both, rather than simply one side of the Great Divide, I'll then see it as genuine and sincere call of peace. Until that moment arrives, I see little more than bias-- one eye opened only to the sins of side A, the other closed only to the same sins of side B.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'm not claiming to be objective in the OP....Just some balance from my own perspective.
I'm well aware of the flaws in Sanders and the campaign, and his supporters (including my own).
But it's still a fluid situation, and it's premature for anyone to make final judgement on Sanders or take a totally objective view.
Y'all are obviously free to say or do whatever...Want to beat on Sanders that's your prerogative. But Clinton and her campaign are the now ones who ultimately will have to try herd all of the Democratic cats if she wants to win in November....and have a viable Democratic Party in the longer term. How that is done, will have a bearing on the ability to unite and move forward.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)TwilightZone
(25,456 posts)things that many Clinton supporters have been saying about Sanders for months.
That he's tone-deaf. That he's vindictive. That he's behind the horrible decisions his campaign has been making, most notably since Nevada.
After months and months of Clinton supporters being told how perfect the guy is, the apparent fact that he was closer in reality to their vision of Sanders than yours is a bit eye-opening.
I say that as someone who had great respect for Bernie Sanders prior to this campaign and have supported him for decades, to the point of annoying my friends and family. Either I (and many others) had the completely wrong idea about the guy, or this campaign has drastically changed him.
It's also news from the perspective that he *still* thinks he should be the nominee. The insight into his decision-making processes isn't going to do much to convince anyone that the SDs should ignore the will of the voters and support him en masse.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)There hasn't been a single source from inside his campaign urging him to quit. The only people being quoted are Clinton groupies who raised money for her campaign. I don't see the need to keep spreading this lie around.
And yes the party is split down the middle.
15,666,365 votes for Clinton
11,969,131 votes for Sanders
Pissing off the other half of the Dem base is not a smart strategy to beat Trump in November.
George II
(67,782 posts)....in 2008.
Time for change
(13,714 posts)In comparison with Trump, I might be able to overlook Clinton's war mongering, allegiance to the financial industry that robbed the American people of trillions of dollars and never had to account for it, support of trade agreements that will drive more and more people into poverty, and her many other right wing leanings.
But I cannot and will not overlook the massive voter suppression that has occurred in primary after primary this year. This may be THE underlying evil of our fading democracy. When such things are done with no consequences to the perpetrators, we have no democracy. I will not condone that in any manner whatsoever. California still has millions of uncounted provisional ballots, plenty enough to put Bernie over the top. And yet they called California for Hillary, just as they prematurely called the whole race for her recently.
Bernie has led a revolution in our country over the last few months. I am still hopeful that he will receive the Democratic nomination. But if he doesn't, I believe that the revolution that he led and so many millions of Americans participated in will continue. It will continue to November, and if he is not elected president, it will continue after that. It is of paramount importance that this revolution continue because there is currently no decent alternative for our country. That's where my mind and heart is at -- not with having to make a decision between a fascist and an oligarch.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)I don't believe those people want unity of any flavor unless it's silence and a demanded vote.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)But as far as I know, he is still planning to contest the convention
I really am pulling my punches right now because I know the nom is mathematically out of reach for Team Sanders. But it is unfair to ask us to stand down completely until the candidate has made the end of the race official. And you know that if the places were reversed, you would be rubbing it in a bit right now too.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I was on the winning side in 2008 as a supporter of Obama. I think I was anxious for her to leave,and probably said so. But I don't think I rubbed anything in afterward.....But that was 8 years ago, so dunno.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)But I also liked Clinton and would not have been heartbroken if she won legit. I was angry with her at the very end when she suggested throwing out the popular vote, but other than that, I don't think I made a negative post about her that entire primary. For me, it was more about REALLY liking Obama than not liking Clinton.
This has primary has been FAR more contentious for me. And we are at the part where Sanders is trying to throw out the popular vote I dunno. I am exercising some restraint by not saying everything that I really think here, but I am not happy about the contested convention idea and I am still a bit pissed about the general lack of civility around this place. Aren't we all?
The rule change on the 16th will help with civility. And then it is up to Sanders. When he concedes, I will stand down 100% and try to persuade other Clinton supporters to do the same. Plus Trump is just so bigly hatable. It will be more fun if we bigly hate him together
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)desmiller
(747 posts)an opportunity to show the world that we can pick the absolute best candidate to represent this country and beyond, but we fucked it up BIG TIME. I believe that the world is laughing at all of us real hard right now. We, as a country, deserved it.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)We don't have to try to diagnose a campaign for missteps when one candidate is simply more popular than another.
QC
(26,371 posts)claims that it was insufficiently meek and obsequious. "She sounds like she's making a victory speech!!!" thundered the faithful.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.